WINTERSOWING 2014 Ambitions...

Sierra Foothills, CA(Zone 8a)

OK, everyone, who has their WINTERSOWING started? And who has started their lists?

Calgary, Canada

I have not started and do not have lists either.
But I have gathered a bunch of seeds----need to go through the packages and see what is suitable for a WS.

(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

Mine is finished, perhaps too quick on the trigger (first year an' all). No list, I've got plant labels in all.

Columbus, OH

JL Hudson catalog is online now, my list got bigger.

Sierra Foothills, CA(Zone 8a)

OK, Robin show us your list. What have you already wintersown? Wow, you beat us all!

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)



This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 1:05 AM

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(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

Here's my list...3 containers full (Blomma style), thought I better get a picture snapped before the snow hits tonight.

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Casper, WY(Zone 4a)



This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 1:05 AM

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(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

Lets see, I've got planted:

*Flame Amur Maple, Acer ginnala 'Flame'
*Fragrant Ash, Fraxinus cuspidata
*Fragrant Snowbell, Styrax obassia
*Glory Bower, Clerodendrum trichotomum cs
*Japanese Tree Lilac, Syringa reticulata
*Magnolia, Magnolia kobus
*Redbud, Cercis canadensis 'Eastern Redbud'
*Redbud, Cercis canadensis f. alba 'Royal White'
Anise Hyssop, Agastache foeniculum 'Golden Jubilee'
Asiatic Lily, Lilium Lirio asiatico 'Tiny Puppet'
Asiatic Lily, Lilium Lirio asiatico 'Tiny Dino'
Aster, Symphyotrichum novae-angliae 'Purple Dome'?
Blackcap Raspberry, Rubus leucodermis
Blue Mist Spiraea, Caryopteris x clandonensis
Clematis, Clematis pitcheri
Clematis, Clematis 'Violet Charm'
Clematis, Clematis 'Dr Ruppel'
Clustered Poppy Mallow, Callirhroe triangulata
Columbine, Aquilegia vulgaris 'Clementine White'
Cotoneaster, Cotoneaster microphyllus
Cotoneaster, Cotoneaster apiculatus
Cumberland Azalea/Rhododendron bakeri, Rhododendron cumberlandense
Daylily, Hemerocallidaceae Hemeracallis 'Ruby Stella'
Daylily, Hemerocallidaceae Hemeracallis 'Stella D Oro'
Euonymous (Wintercreeper), Euonymus fortunei 'Blondy'
False Indigo, Baptisia australis
Fragrant False Indigo, Amorpha nana
Garlic chives, Allium tuberosum
Hardy Bitter Orange, Poncirus trifoliata
Hardy Hibiscus, Hibiscus moscheutos 'Kopper King'
Hardy Hibiscus, Hibiscus moscheutos 'Mighty Big Pink'
Hazelnut, Corylus americana
Heal All, Prunella vulgaris
Hibiscus, Hibiscus trionum L.
Hibiscus, Hibiscus cannabinus 'Amethyst'
Hibiscus, Hibiscus Acetosella 'Mahogany Splendor'
Ice Plant, Delosperma Cooperi 'Table Mountain'
Joe Pye Weed, Eupatorium variabile 'Variegatum'
Lemon Balm, Melissa officinalis
Manchu Rose, Rosa xanthina f. spontanea 'Canary Bird'
Meadowsweet, Filipendula rubra
Milky Way Dogwood, Cornus kousa var. chinensis
Salad Burnet, Sanguisorba minor
Scotch Broom, Cytisus scoparius 'Pomona'
Sedge, Carex morrowii 'Ice Dance'
Sessile-Leaf Tick Trefoil, Desmodium sessilifolium
Snowdrop Anemone, Anemone sylvestris 'Madonna'
Snowy Mespilus, Amelanchier ovalis
Sorrel, Rumex acetosa 'Large Leaf'
Spotted Hawkweed, Hieracium spilophaeum 'Leopard'
St. Johns Wort, Hypericum calycinum 'Blue Velvet'
Viola (Johnny Jump Up), Viola tricolor
Viola , Viola sororia 'Freckles'
Wild Geranium, Geranium maculatum 'Elizabeth Ann'?
Wild Leek (Ramps), Allium tricoccum

Somewhere in, MD(Zone 7b)

HOLY GUACAMOLE, that's a heck of a list!!!!!!!

I'm kinda curious about y'all's Winter Sowing methods. Are the containers (with soil and seeds, I presume) left inside larger containers, stacked all together like that? If so, could you please explain to me why you do it that way? Are there holes in the tops and bottoms of each container for drainage and for nature's moisture to gain access?

I've done Winter Sowing before (this will be my first year not doing any), and I did it quite a bit differently. I used many different types of containers, but predominantly milk jugs (the universal favourite, I think). And mine were scattered all over the deck out back, getting plenty of sun, but that never posed a problem. Basically, I just "contained" the soil and seed to keep the critters out, but otherwise exposed them to the elements like they would be were they just ... naturally sown out in the wild (for want of a better way to put it).

Here's a couple pics of my first year of WS'ing; the results completely filled 2 brand new beds.

1: one view of many of the jugs; newly-bought plants on the railing. (those are in my "container shady garden" out back now)
2: A couple brand new babies in a couple milk jugs. I don't remember now what they are. ;)
3: These pots were also used for WS'ing; I covered them with heavy plastic (held in place with rubber bands), and then slit holes in the top for ... there's a word for it but I can't remember it at the moment -- hate when that happens! Respiration? No, that's not it! Ugh!

Anyway, I'd love to learn how you guys do yours, and why. =)

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(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

Speedie, guacamole sounds good, I'll have to sow some Avocados...lol.

Blomma's the expert on this 'container method'. Seeing how this is my first WS experience I can only tell you what I did and the thought process behind it. I used a lower quality grade sowing medium (mixed with garden soil) for the bulk of the fill, well moistened.

Added an inch seedling soil-less mix, well moistened, then seeds, (pre-soaked ones that needed scarifying). I covered the seeds with the required amount for the specific seeds (some seeds are just pressed into the soil-less mix).

Spritzed the tops of each completed container with fungicide and closed individual containers and stacked in a larger one.

The double wall construction moderates the wildly fluctuating temperatures but still allows natural freeze and thaw cycles. The moisture added is hopefully the exact amount the seed will need to germinate when temps are favorable. Because the containers are sealed, no more water has to be added or drained for the duration.

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)



This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 1:06 AM

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(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

Thanks for the info, I delegated one whole inner container for Delosperma, luckily I have more. Love your photo's of sprouting seeds...I'll never tire of those.

Come to think of it, I didn't soak or nick the Hibiscus, they were a test planting.

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)



This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 1:06 AM

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Calgary, Canada

Great ambitions on the winter sowing you people!
I have not got started.
Thank you for the info on Delosperma-----I have seeds and was wondering?
Thanks.
Caroline

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)





This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 1:07 AM

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Casper, WY(Zone 4a)



This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 1:08 AM

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(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

Quote from blomma :
I am far from an expert, just learned by trial and error for 50 years.


Yeah, well, I call that an expert...at the very least a pro! Good work Blomma, lot's to be proud of there. I have minimal space to plant out and plan on growing on begged, borrowed, rented or purchased land just for the sake of growing things I love...I'm tired of space limitations.

I also combined grit with my mixes for the Delosperma because it's a succulent. I still have high hopes, I'll let y'all know the results.

Columbus, OH

Here's my list:
Agrostemma-purple and pink mixed (I swear I will sort the colors this year!)
Onion-Rosso Lunga di Tropea
Anagalis
Aquilegia-some fragrant varieties
Calendula-resina, Art Shades, Radio, and some seeds I saved from plants I liked last year
Campanula-carpatica, cochlearifolia, medium
Cerastium tomentosum
Consolida-blue only, white only, and mixed
Cryptotaenia atropurpurea
Delphinium Blue Mirror
Digitalis-tall purple
Coreopsis Quills and Thrills
Cerinthe-Kiwi Blue
Echinacea-Hula Dancer
Euphorbia corollata
Lychnis-variegated version of L. coronaria alba, Angel Blush, and plain coronaria
Euphorbia marginata-Icicle
Gaillardia-double-flowered annual variety. Sunburst?
Heuchera-mixed varieties
Impatiens balfourii and glandulifera (just in case they don't reseed, they normally do)
Centaurea-some annual varieties
Chenopodium-Epazote. I'm pretty sure it'll reseed from last year, but making sure.
Myrrhis odorata
Nicotiana mutabilis, alata, and sylvestris
Shiso
Parsley
Papaver-Drama Queen, Pepperbox, gigantea, Persian Star, Edge of Night, Lauren's Grape, Feathered lilac, atlanticum, dubium, plus others I don't remember.
Polygonum-variegated KMOGG
Poncirus trifoliata, Flying Dragon
Salvia sclarea "Piemont", horminum Blue Monday
Silene lacinata
Verbena bonariensis and rigida (it reseeds but I want more)
Viscaria "Blue Angel", plus mix of Viscaria from last year
Wonderberry
Spilanthes
Viola-assorted colors, plus more labradorica between some rocks I moved last year
Sedum-assorted varieties--Oracle, Lizard, hispanicum

ETA varieties I forgot

This message was edited Jan 5, 2014 4:21 PM

(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

That's a cool list Celene, especially Poncirus trifoliata, Flying Dragon -- that's on my 'Want' list, where did you get them?

Did you WS in Milk Jugs?

Columbus, OH

I WS in flats, I am too OCD for the milk jugs. Feel free to mock me. lol

I got the Poncirus at JL Hudson, and they sprouted well with WS, and some were curlier than others, I kept the three curliest seedlings and gave the rest away. My pit bull puppy "took them for a walk outside the pot" in the fall--wicked thorns and all. So, I'm starting over.

(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

"My pit bull puppy "took them for a walk outside the pot"
Oh for the love of puppies, lol...lucky girl! Thanks for the info.

Columbus, OH

Good thing she's cute. lol Here she is pruning bamboo.

We won't speak of two kittens who re-ordered my seed box this morning. Ugh.

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(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

OMG...for some unexpected reason, I feel like scooping her up and cuddling. I'll trade you five tree seedlings for her. I need a good garden helper!

Columbus, OH

She is super duper cuddly, that's for sure. :)

(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

I'll take that as 'yes, we have a deal'...lol!

Brooksville, FL(Zone 9a)

Robin and Celene when is your plant sale planned for????? LOL

(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

I'm guessing I'll be trading for a lot of alpines come summer Jan (if all else fails that is).

Somewhere in, MD(Zone 7b)

Thank you guys for the explanations, that's a really cool way to do it, and one I'd never thought of before. I guess that many years of experience and trial-and-error would definitely make you an expert Blomma, even if you are too modest to admit it. :) And I whole-heartedly agree, your method is MUCH more attractive than the "jugs and pots all over the place" method that I've used. DH was always sooo happy when Spring arrived and the deck got cleaned up again.

I'm sorta curious (always with the questions!); I thought one of the ideas of Winter sowing was to allow nature to stratify/scarify the seeds for you (with the frost/thaw cycles) so that you don't have to nick and soak and all that before the seeds are sown. Don't you just make more work for yourselves doing all that before sowing them? I mean, it's gonna happen anyway if the seeds are outside over-winter, right? I always thought that was the purpose of Winter sowing; to make less work for us and just let nature handle that stratification stuff. (I am a tried-and-true lazy gardener, can you tell?) ;)

This is cool, learning new ways to do stuff, thank you all for having patience with me while I learn. =) And yes, if you picture a 7-year-old in the classroom with her hand raised, asking the teacher "But, WHY!?!?".... that's me! =)

(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

You're right Speedie, nicking and soaking would seem redundant if WS does it all for you. I have some seeds with special requirements -- double stratification. Instead of leaving these varieties out in containers for one warm cycle and one cold cycle I sped them up and warm/moist stratified for the required period and then I put out in the snow for the cold/moist.

I do have a milk jug with Lily of the Valley seeds that will be outside for the duration of the double cycle. I don't want to risk losing them to critters or insects.

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)

Speedie,
Thank you for the compliment. Depending on the type of seed, the reason for soaking is to remove the inhibiting factor that is in the seed coat that prevents sprouting. Every seed have that to one degree or another. This soaking and rinsing treatment is to remove the seed germination inhibitor present in the seed coat. Outdoors, the fall rains and melting snow in winter do the same thing over a 3 to 4 month period in order to break dormancy.

The seed inhibiting is nature's way of making sure that seeds don't sprout in unfavorable conditions to allow their survival. Generally speaking, hardy perennials takes longer to sprout than annuals. That is the reason why gardeners have to try to mimic nature with all sorts of tricks. But, as always, there are exceptions.

Soaking also softens the seeds coat to allow easier passage of moisture to the embroye. Usually overnight soaking is sufficient. For hard seeds such as iris, it is not. With some seeds, nicking first is required. Hibiscus, and morning glory seeds comes to mind.

And if that is not enough, many tree seeds and some perennials have a double dormancy. Without going into too much details, the flunctuating temp have to be repeated twice to break dormancy. Tree seeds can take 1+ years to sprout.

http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/index.htm

Sierra Foothills, CA(Zone 8a)

Quote from meadowyck :
Robin and Celene when is your plant sale planned for????? LOL


DITTO!! Excellent work, ladies!! ^_^

Somewhere in, MD(Zone 7b)

That is a really excellent website, Blomma, thank you for sharing it. I wish there were links there to just the articles, I could get lost for days in those articles. ... but, I digress. ;)

I'm learning a LOT here in this discussion, thank you guys for bearing with me. So, the "double dormancy" seeds require both scarification and stratification, which can, in nature, take 2 years or longer to germinate... if not for the Loving Gardeners' hands... Am I understanding this correctly?

That may explain why my Pieris Japonica "Dorothy Wycoff" seeds did not germinate the first year I Winter Sowed them using the "traditional" (Milk Jug Sitting On The Deck All Winter) Winter Sowing method. I'll try to do some searching around for more info about those seeds when the internet is not so slow. (Dunno why it's acting so bogged down this morning).

Thank you again for putting up with me and my questions here; I am enjoying learning new things! =)

Columbus, OH

For the seed that is super hard to germinate, I WS in pots and make sure they're well-labeled and hold them over 2 years. I got a mandrake seedling once that way. It germinated late, and wasn't large enough to overwinter with any amount of mulch.

Sierra Foothills, CA(Zone 8a)

Celene ~ Do you have any mandrake growing now? (Double dormancy?)

Calgary, Canada

This is zone 3 so too cold to grow Delosperma as a perennial.
Will do it as an annual-----starting under lights indoors.

Casper, WY(Zone 4a)



This message was edited Mar 4, 2015 1:09 AM

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Columbus, OH

I do not have mandrake growing now, but I did order some seed again. I've improved the soil in that bed, and I think I can fake a zone 7 there.

(Robin) Blissfield, MI(Zone 6a)

Oh Blomma, your Delosperma are fabulous...especially "Gold Nugget", it's a beaut!

CLScott, take advantage of your micro-climates -- sheltered areas with warming rocks against a foundation etc...

Somewhere in, MD(Zone 7b)

Mipii, I was thinking the same thing; those micro-climates can make all the difference in the garden world. You can also assist in 'creating' a micro-climate by doing like Mipii said; if you don't already have warming rocks, add some; you can install other, more hardy, plants to provide protection from the elements while still allowing sunlight through. (open growth-habit shrubs -- perhaps a Forsythia along a South-facing wall? Maybe a nice Lilac, which requires a good heavy-duty cold in order to bloom?)

I've done something similar in my Western-facing front bed. It gets full sun there, so I sneaked a few, more shade-appreciating perennials behind/amongst the Jerusalem Cherries and Otto Luyken, and they are thriving happily. :)

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