We will be rolling out several small fixes mid-day today (Jan 29.) We do not anticipate any disruptions or problems, but f you spot any unexpected issues after 12 noon (PST), please report them in the designated thread in the DG Site Updates forum.
This is a double white with fuzzy or downey leaves. A friend of mine who is a landscaper gave me a cutting last summer. She had it planted in her yard and did not remember the name. She got it at a wholesale nursery because she thought it was pretty.
Liz, the bee and his friends were not bothered by me at all. It was me that was a little anxious with all the buzzing going on. It is a warm day here and the bees are everywhere. I wish someone could help me identify this brug - I guess I am being a little impatient. I know that someone will come along and know exactly what it is. :)
Wow! Tonny that's great - I wish I had the knowledge that you have. I just wanted some info because I am limited in what I have and I only a couple brugs which I can share cuttings from and it helps to have an idea of what this one is. People have been so nice to me and I am anxious to be able to share.
What other brug do you have and do you want more? I'll have some extra plants that I can send out when the weather warms here a little. They aren't the newer special brugs, but if I have cuttings of the newer ones left after the people who helped me get started have spoken for theirs, you are welcome to get starts of them too.
Thank you for your generosity. Every one has to start some where and I would appreciate very much even the older brugs. I will email you and let you know what I have. Others have sent me cuttings and I am thrilled with them.
I learned a long time ago "A baby has to crawl before it walks" I have patience and I am learning from some of the best. As I mentioned in my post, I have one little seedling peeking thru - this is a first for me!
I'm going to try to explain to you why I sent the message about your order yesterday. I'm also going to try to keep this message short, but I have a lot to say about a lot of things.
I've spent 2 years working on LBJ. The first year was spent designing the site and learning about ecommerce (something I will always be learning).
The second year was spent dealing with suppliers, organizing plant inventory, more site design, more ecommerce related business ... etc.
At the same time, I was growing, propagating and caring for 50+ different domestic Brugmansia, all by myself, for sales. The only time I had help was to pack shipments.
I have been away from internet forums and communications with fellow brug lovers because I could hardly find time to pee, let alone sit and chat.
LBJ began taking Spring orders for Euro cvs in the fall of 2000.
Everything was going smoothly until the following February when I got notice from CA that a huge ficus tree limb had fallen on a big portion of our Euro Spring orders and on some of our mother plants. It took a crew of men to clean this mess up and we salvaged what we could.
Just a few weeks after that, the power in my ghouse failed for 2 days. The high was 30, the low was 17 degrees. Our domestic Spring orders were damaged, some were killed.
We were finally able to begin shipping in June. After about a month both facilities started seeing evidence of virus in some of our plants. It is common for brugs to have viruses. As long as they are taken care of and well fed, the symptoms rarely show up. A brug normally has to experience stress before these symptoms become evident.
Quite a few of the brugs I was growing were severely stressed because of the freeze. No matter what I did, no matter the amount of fertilizer they received, no matter anything ... they were not responding. They were growing very slowly and looked awful.
CA's virus problems came from imports and from trades made with ordinary collectors within the US. Our Euro stock's virus was a real eye opener for us.
We've had a lot of our Euro plants tissue cultured and some of them are virus indexed. Both procedures are very expensive. Tissue cultures from one mother plant is as much as $1,000. These have been our most important plants for hybridizing purposes for several years now.
The virus symptoms in the CA stock were not as severe as my own plants, but still, there was no way we were going to continue shipping plants from either location until we felt it was safe to do so.
We were able to begin shipping again and things were going smoothly until Sept 11. Suddenly all shipments were taking as long as 3 weeks to arrive at their destinations. Some orders disappeared from the face of the earth. CA sent me personally a box of 150 Euro's that never made it to my door.
We stopped shipping plants for the rest of the year. Customers received emails from LBJ, explaining everything in the best way we could.
After a years worth of problems, it was time for us to take a break, regroup, and calm down. Enough was enough, and I personally looked forward to the new year and a fresh start.
While all of those production and shipping problems were going on, I was getting emails from so many people, I could not keep up with them. Along with customers who are friends, quite a few were from customers who I did not personally know. They were supportive and encouraging and some even offered financial support ( not accepted or needed).
Some emails were from irrate customers who canceled their orders. They were rude, offensive and threatening.
I started getting messages from friends within this forum who warned me that there were some unpleasant rumors and insinuations being made on this forum about LBJ. I checked it out. I learned a lot. I dealt with those I chose to deal with.
The number one thing I learned was that people were importing brugs with no quarantines, no inspections ... nothing but a piece of paper. This highly upset me then and it still does.
LBJ has been faihful to import Euro's legally and honestly. LBJ has struggled for years to grow quality Euro plants in a virus free environment. Now we, USA, LBJ, and all collectors are exposed to unquarantined imports. These illegal plants are being hybridized, seeds from them are being traded, cuttings are being traded, plants are being traded. No one knows what diseases and viruses the plants will show in another year. These possible deadly diseases and viruses can wipe out some food crops not to mention entire brug collections.
My battle against these illegal imports began. Read the threads that date back as far as early Dec.
This battle has not been pleasant. I've been called names, I've been made fun of and I've been ignored. LBJ received 2 negative ratings on the WatchDog list as retaliations because of my stand.
I do not stand alone. This is a stand that farmers, growers, and plant/food producers all over this country join me in. We do not want our crops of any kind exposed to illegal imports.
Brugs from other countries received as trades or purchases before 1-22-02 are still illegal. You can not legally trade or sell these plants or any part of them.
This message is longer than I wanted it to be but I wanted you to understand a little bit of LBJ's and my recent DG history. Whenever I see a post about LBJ, I investigate. I will fight for LBJ, and for our inventory. I will fight for the truth and for what's right until I die. After everything I've experienced this past year concerning brugs, I refuse to keep quiet and I refuse to let someone destroy our priceless brug inventory because of their illegal imports. If it means someone will not do business with us ... then so be it.
I believe the message that I received from a customer who is not a personal friend, sums everthing up pretty well:
>"I agree with you about importing. People just don't >seem to realize the potential hazards of diseased >cuttings, seeds or plants. If they would just take a >moment to think about other destructions that we have had >from imported insects. We cannot be too careful. It >takes a selfish and uneducated person to think only of >themself and not consider the world around them.
Gloria T, I have never seen a post that you wrote telling anyone something good about LBJ. I looked for it but it must have been in done in private messages.
Your message could have been taken 2 ways, negative or positive. I'm not used to positive messages from within this group concerning me. There's always a private joke or disrepectful message involved when I am mentioned. No matter what I say, someone tries to prove me wrong or hurt me.
OK - I've had a [deleted] day and I'm already in a grouchy mood. Unlike 99.9% of the other people here I have nothing to lose - I'm in Canada so you don't ship to me anyway. Vicki, I just read your last posting and as I read it I really felt that if you'd only made this case at the outset we'd be on your side - or at least sympathetic to your situation. That is until you went after one of our own. This is an unusual way of conducting business - attacking your core client base. I'm sure you must be aware (as you were so easily able to pull up Gloria's order) that many, if not most, of the people on the brug group here are also members of the 2 other major groups. Many will still order from you but will not feel good about it.
Feel free to come after me - as I said, I'm already in a bad mood.
Vicki, Gloria does not deserve this treatment from you. She apologized to you. You owe her an apology because you misintrepreted her post. I also take offense to your scare tactics. Monika Gottschalk's quote from an email yesterday
"brugmansia seeds are free of virus. The seed can be soaked in a desinfectant lotion to kill virus that might be attached on to the surface." Monika has been hybridizing brugmansias for a long time and has an incredible amount of knowledge and a wonderful book, but I'm sure you have seen it.
This forum is about learning, friendship,and sharing information. I do not think you are a positive influence. If you have problems with people, I suggest you deal with them privately and not in public. It is bad manners. JMHO
Vicky, If you had explained your situation at the beginning instead of coming here with both guns blazing things I'm sure would have been much different.You should have privately e-mailed those that offended you instead of attacking everyone in this forum.I have never seen anyone here get upset when someone posted helpful advice or any information that we should be made aware of.If you had offered information on the virus problem in a friendly manner I'm sure everyone would have listened.I don't blame you at all for wanting to stop viruses from entering the US.
I'm sure that no one here wants to spread viruses.We should all be working at this together and not attacking each other.Please look back at your previous posts and honestly say that they were'nt written in a threatening manner.
>The seed can be soaked in a desinfectant lotion to kill >virus that might be attached on to the surface."
Thank you Monika.
Proof positive. Brug seeds can carry viruses. I'm sure everyone's been soaking their seeds? And what about the trades and purchases from other other countries received by other brug growers who are not part of these forums? The ones who do not know to disinfect their seeds?
Vicki, what Monika meant is the virus is not carried in the seed. IF, it is attached on the outside, then you can disinfect to be sure. She also says that only sanguineas and vulcanicolas get the virus. Everyone here wants to be as careful as possible and learn all they can. It would be nice to have positive imput in a non threatening tone.
>Please look back at your previous posts and honestly say >that they were'nt written in a threatening manner.
When I entered this forum, there was only one person I attacked and it was because we had opposite views concerning imports.
Time has changed and it's here ... January 22, 2002.
This person is quickly gaining my respect for many reasons. I believe he wants to do things legally and honestly. I hope he will be one of the Euro suppliers we can all depend on.
Every person on this forum, who was or is an LBJ customer, already knew about LBJ's production problems. If one of the negative ratings wasn't retaliation then that means it was due to LBJ's production problems. Something we had no control over.
Vicki you attacked all of us when you posted that we had illegal plants without ever asking anything about what we had or how we got them. I did notice that on the yahoo group you didn't attack them, you politely said maybe they shouldn't post what they got or where they got them. They didn't get the same treatment that we did.
I did notice that on the yahoo group you didn't attack them, you politely said maybe they shouldn't post what they got or where they got them. They didn't get the same treatment that we did.
>Vicki you attacked all of us when you posted that we had >illegal plants without ever asking anything about what we >had or how we got them
I did not have to ask. All I had to do is read the old threads. All the info is there for the public to read.
>you politely said maybe they shouldn't post what they got >or where they got them. They didn't get the same treatment >that we did.
The yahoos group is where I began my import battle and still they do not treat me the way you do.
Vicki - we want to be on your side but you have to help us. None of us are the bad guys. We all know you are talking about Tonny Surrow. An honourable man- a good man and a trustworthy man. He is trying to conform to the regulations as are we all. We are not trying to sabotage your business or anyone else's. We just want us all to do what we have to do to enjoy the plants we love so much. None of us want to spread a scourge over the things we love to others. I'm sure you can remember what it was like before you had to run a business - when you loved brugmansias just because they were so beautiful - hopefully you still see them the same way.
>None of us want to spread a scourge over the things we >love to others. I'm sure you can remember what it was like >before you had to run a business - when you loved >brugmansias just because they were so beautiful - >hopefully you still see them the same way.
There is nothing more I'd like to do than to be friends with this entire forum. We could all learn so much from each other.
Considering my stand on imports how could I possibly trust those who have these imports in their possession? Those who know the rules, the possible dangers, and still, for whatever reasons, talk about their imports without a care in the world? How can I possibly sit back and watch these plants being traded?
I would never be able to trade anything for fear of what I'll expose my collection to.
I do grow brugs for the pure joy of their beauty and for hybridizing purposes. I do not personally grow any to sell anymore.
Please tell me that you don't think all foreign brugs are virused. I know the sangs and the vulcanicolas are especially susceptible but one can't assume everything coming from outside the US is diseased. None of these plants are native to north america. I'm not trying to be confrontational - but they all came from elsewhere.
Vicki - you have so much experience, it's time for you to help us out with your knowledge, not chastize us.
"How can I possibly sit back and watch these plants being traded? "
Does this mean we really DO have to watch for the brug police to come to our doors Vicki??? It sounds like we do.
You must think that if you don't have our order on your records that surely we got them illegally. You are NOT the only person that sells brugs. You are NOT the only person with an import license. So who's first? I'd like to be well dressed that day.
This message was edited Wednesday, Jan 23rd 8:13 AM
Vicky, I guess I just don't understand you.In one breath you say you would like nothing more than to be friends with this forum and in the next you say that no one here can be trusted and how can you just sit back and watch these plants being traded.You could never trade with anyone here for fear of desease. We're trying hard to work with you here but you are making it quite impossible.What ARE your intentions here if you don't trust anyone and can't sit and watch any trading going on amongst us???????? You are still threatening the people on this forum so how can we possibly work together on a solution if you keep making remarks like the above? Let us know what to expect Vicky so it won't be a shock if someone does come knocking on our door.
Am I missing something here?Vicki ,as far as I can see you are gun ho to have brug imports stopped,and the reasoning is to stop the virus from spreading.And you can't trade with us or trust us because we may be harboring european imports which carry virus.Now ,what I seem to be missing is where do these virus's start?In Europe?In Canada?In the USA?Are these virus's everywhere ?Can they be spread by Tomatos,potatos etc...So I could have a European Import(virus free),trade for a USA grown Frosty pink(contaminated by the neighbors tomato and potato feilds),and get all my brugs infected by that home grown frosty pink.Stopping the imports will not solve the problem.Finding virus free ,virus resistant breeding stock ,and inoculations to kill the virus is the answer.Attacking us,threatning us,is doing nothing but alienate us from you.We are all in this together.We are here to learn,but think back to school,no one who learned lessons because of threats,ever went back to the teacher to say thank you.You feel like you were being slandered by a completly innocent comment.Have you never had a crooked brug?I wonder if you were ticked by the brug police and virus /seed comments I made and just attacked the first person you could.I have heard nothing but good about your plants,your web site is excellent and informative.The content is your opinion.And is not written in stone.Just as we question the parts of Preissels books,we also question yours.Don't take it so personally.We are all entitled to our own opinions.We would like to come to you for your opinions,not all of us may agree with your opinion but we will respect the fact that thats what you beleive.Do not attack us.UNITED WE STAND.
Well, I think we all know who the queen of retaliation is. I gave LBJ a bad report because I waited OVER one year for her to ship my plants. For long periods of time, I got nothing, no emails, no snail mail, no response AT ALL concerning my order. THAT AND ONLY THAT is the reason I gave you a bad report, as I would (and have) other companies.