Trades past 22nd January 2002

Temuco, Chile(Zone 9b)

With USA enforcing the fitosanitary certificate for seeds ( CITES regulation ) and the irradiation of mail, international members will have to trade only among people within this group.

Should we post our trades here, in this forum ?
What do you think?
Any idea ?

Let's discuss this important issue to us all.

cristina

Cristina

I think we should trade from this forum to prevent any misunderstandings on the seed trading forum. I've already turned down two people for SASE requests because they were in the US, although I'd not posted anything on the seed trading forum itself.

It might also mean that this forum would be used more often!

Shangshui, Henan, China(Zone 7b)

Hello,
Cristina of Australia in Chile
and Baa in the UK,et al:
I have been fixing my eyes on this all the time.
In my point, US's Jan22 regulation does not mean the complete cease of gardening exchanges between the USA
and other countries.here as usual we can share with the American gardeners all sorts of gardening issues except seed trading.


Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

and unless your country has banned it, we can still send you seeds, we just can't receive them.

Shangshui, Henan, China(Zone 7b)

tiG:
No ban on my side.so I can still receive
garden seeds from you.Fine!in return i will
send you little gifts such as health care tea
and what.

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

me dear, you don't have a wish list!! What kind of seeds are you looking for?

Westbrook, ME(Zone 5a)

You guys can just send us presents instead of seeds... jewlry, furs, art ...LOL!

Shangshui, Henan, China(Zone 7b)

tiG:no wanted list available so far ,but i will soon.Thanks!
Sue:to tell you the truth,i have in my hands a few
playing stones and some bird feathers to trade. ):

Westbrook, ME(Zone 5a)

What kinda feathers Jianhua? My hubby likes them to tie flies with.

Shangshui, Henan, China(Zone 7b)

Sue:Parrot's,pheasant's and peacock's(the latter,too long).all are colorful.but i prefer the stones.under the magnifying -glass,wow,you can see and imagine so many things
on the surfaces.):

Jian

What are playing stones.

Shangshui, Henan, China(Zone 7b)

Baa:
The playing stones--here i refer to the pebbles which are collected on seashores or hillsides.

Temuco, Chile(Zone 9b)

That is quite clear, we can enjoy the friendship with all our american friends and send other little thing. Perhaps we can continue trading as Jianhua suggested, although I feel tempted to become a dangerous and charming seed smuggler.
Here we do not have any restriction. I can send and receive seeds. Plants is not possible, but.........
I feel that I will post here then any new trade.

cristina

Newark, OH(Zone 5a)

Jinhua, take a look at my list. I'm sure my son would be very delighted with some stones and I would love some tea (as long as it's decaf because I have problems with my kidneys otherwise)

Mount Prospect, IL(Zone 5a)

Hi, I just received seeds frm Canada today, but I think they extended their date to July? I mentioned at my Post Office today that we can't receive seeds from Europe anymore. He was surprised. They don't have any notice on it. Nothing in the papers. I think we may have to experiment.

Georgetown, TX(Zone 8a)

djm, the notices should have reached the postmasters, or in my case, the manager. But it's up to them to actually read the material, and then to make it available to clerks. Individuals working at the front, the ones who actually have contact with customers, often don't have current knowledge of regulations. The problem with that is, when your item reaches a point where it will be likely to be inspected, if it is found to be in violation and is plant material or something else not allowed or in some way restricted, it will simply be discarded. USPS feels no obligation to notify you or the addressee. Sometimes they will return it, usually not. The other hazard is the one my local manager's daughter learned the hard way. She sent a plant to UK without proper forms, and it was seized and she was fined $200. I was told this about 4 years ago, and the manager showed me the regulation in a large book. He was a real stickler for filling out forms. But when I attempted to get the necessary forms from Canada and London to send iris rhizomes, no one there knew about them. The forms had to be sent to me by them after they got them from their Minister of Agriculture.
I finally gave up, as I didn't want my very old iris destroyed.

Maastricht, Netherlands(Zone 8a)

On January 20th I mailed seeds to a lady in Maine. Today she sent me an email telling me that her seeds had arrived without any problem. As long as you don't put SEEDS !!!! on your envelope nobody will notice. I will take the risk again next time.

Temuco, Chile(Zone 9b)

I'm planning to do the same. Someone did ask for some natives flowers from Chile.
Soon I'll have some alstroemeria seeds , this are Heirloom seed , from the area where they grow in nature, asa they're ready to be harvested, I'll try and I'll see what happens .
cristina

Alfred, ON(Zone 4b)

hello everyone,
just a quick post, when I send or recieve plants and seeds from Europe or the US, I always write crafts on the envelope or package and so does my trading buddy.

most of the seeds or plants that I get would never survive the cold winter here anyways so what harm can it do?

Carmen

It can do quite a bit of harm to a local environment if an invasive species were to escape from a garden. What may not be invasive in one area can be a monster in another.

Allaria petiolata - Garlic Mustard is a good example, here in Europe where it is native it has a number of predators and while a little invasive it's controllable. It's a useful wildflower for under hedges in tough conditions and also has the added bonus of being edible. In the USA where it has been introduced it is beginning to impact on woodland species of plants where it has no natural predators or other thuggish plants to stem its growth. Anyone who has ever tried to get rid of this plant will know how difficult and expensive it is.

Introducing plants like the above is the thin end of the wedge for the food chain in areas with no predatory backup or similarly invasive native plants to compete with. I personally think Calystegia species - Bindweed has a beautiful flower and habit but I don't want it in my garden (although its there as a volunteer).

Another environmental problem is the crossing of like species with the native flora, thus changing the areas species genetic code for ever. This has been observed in England with the Verbascum thapsus (among others), whereby the Itallian same species has been introduced and grown in gardens. While on the surface it seems harmless, we are actually in danger of losing our own native Verbascum to the Itallian x varient. The importance of this change is again the impact it may have on the local flora and fauna.

The importation of dieases and insects with any plant material is also a problem.

Yes, I know we often grow plants which has escaped and/or crossed with local species and in an ideal environment friendly world, we would only grow what is native to our area alone. This of course would make a very dull garden for some of us, but I think we need to be aware of the potential problems, we, as gardeners, can cause.

I also think we also need to be aware of what is allowed, restricted and prohibited by our governments, there are usually good reasons for this. In the UK very little is prohibited but other countries have long lists.



This message was edited Friday, Feb 15th 6:29 AM

Castelnau RB Pyrenée, France(Zone 8a)

I strongly agree with Baa on this. The regs are there because they are necessary not to make our lives difficult. I work with endangered species (bats, dormice etc) and have come to realise how important the points that Baa has raised are.

Mind you, you can still send me seed, i just won't send any back, LOL!
(But little luxury goodies may find themselves travelling the Atlantic!)

Westbrook, ME(Zone 5a)

Here's a thread from GW that's worth reading

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/exseed/msg011221316156.html

Thanks Poppysue

The link prompted me to poke about on APHIS myself and found a press release which, when read with the prohibited and restricted list, makes the reading more clear. The thread you linked goes into more depth.

Press release 2001 August
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/press/2001/08/phydelay.txt

Prohibited list
http://ecfr.access.gpo.gov/otcgi/cfr/otfilter.cgi?DB=1&ACTION=View&QUERY=319.37-2&RGN=BSEC&OP=and&QUERY=7&RGN=BTI&QUERY=34506&RGN=BSECCT&SUBSET=SUBSET&FROM=1&ITEM=1

Restricted list
http://ecfr.access.gpo.gov/otcgi/cfr/otfilter.cgi?DB=1&ACTION=View&QUERY=319.37-3&RGN=BSEC&OP=and&QUERY=7&RGN=BTI&QUERY=7358&RGN=BSECCT&SUBSET=SUBSET&FROM=1&ITEM=1

Mount Prospect, IL(Zone 5a)

I've just received live plants from Europe last week. They were declared, on the package and got here in 6 days. Plus a week ago received seeds from the Netherlands, no problem and had seeds written on bottom of package.

Temuco, Chile(Zone 9b)

Then , the bottom line is that seeds can't enter without the fitosanitary papers ( CITES ) and that is a lot of burocracy and money, for some few seeds.
am I right ?
cristina

Westbrook, ME(Zone 5a)

The way I read it ... is only restricted SEEDS need phyto certs. There are very few SEEDS that are actually restricted... & It must specify SEEDS on the restricted & prohibited list.

I also tend to think it works like many other government agencies. Ask 10 different APHIS agents and you'll get 10 different answers. Who's right or wrong depends on who you talk to. I have been trading as usual and haven't had any problems with seeds coming from accross the pond. Seeds and plants coming into the country aren't the responability of the Post Office. It's Customs that will sieze anything that that's not on the up & up at the ports of entry. Your postal workers won't know what you're talking about when you ask them. Whether the package is clearly marked "SEEDS" or not... there's still a chance they'll be able to detect them with sniffing beagles =)

I read it the same way as Poppysue, only restricted seeds will be enforced to have the certificate. It clearly states on the August press release that this is the case, it doesn't mention other seeds at all.

Campinas, Brazil(Zone 9b)

I made several trades including some with many seeds with americans traders and all of them received my seeds with no problems at all.

Valley Falls, NY(Zone 5a)

No problems, here, (in up-state NY) USA, recieving seeds from overseas. I've gotten several trades, without any problems at all. And, my postmaster knows I'm trading "seeds". He also says, no one has told him that it was illegal, to do so. Anyway, until I get in some sort of trouble,...I'll keep trading internationally. 8-) Dawn

Helsinki, Finland(Zone 4b)

I haven't traded seeds with american's since January 22nd.. Anyway, I thought to start it again. No one here has said anything about my seed letters. And I have never had any problems with sending anything. Maybe because I have a customs label on a every letter which goes outside EU area. Once USPS, Correos Colombia and Indonesia post have stolen/lost my letter :(

Temuco, Chile(Zone 9b)

I just got a mail from Georgia : The alstroemerias got to destination without any troubles, so I will continue trading with my american friends : if they're willing so I am.
cristina

Clarksville, TN(Zone 6b)



This message was edited Saturday, Apr 6th 12:24 AM

Temuco, Chile(Zone 9b)

All my trades GOT to the USA, I was a bit "sneaky" but everybody got their Alstroemerias and their Poppies, and I've been told that all got to their new homes in perfect order.

Hi, Crimson I'm so happy you got yours too!

cristina

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

cristina, mine didn't get here yet. could be because of incomplete addy, or maybe it hasnt' been long enough.

Temuco, Chile(Zone 9b)

I did mail you, tiG.

cristina

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

you mailed on the 3rd of April, want to wait a bit? I don't know how long it takes to get here. btw, you never gave me your addy!!!!!!! email me again with it
write down my addy, I'll take it out tomorrow.
1317 Welcome Sargent rD
Newnan, GA 30263
USA

Temuco, Chile(Zone 9b)

tiG, I'll send you a another, if the other get there, then we're happy !
My addy
Cristina Gonzalez,
España 74
Temuco,
Chile

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

thanks cristina, I'll get your seeds out Monday!!

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