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parentage

Herbstein, Germany(Zone 5a)

Tonny, you had a question earlier about breeding records.
I made and keep such records on almost every hybrid I know. I think it is important to know the parents and if possible, grandparents also when you want to breed successful.
Heredity follows a special pattern with the exception of a spontaneous mutation. If the last one does occurs thats what makes breeding so exciting.

Herbstein, Germany(Zone 5a)

The real Rosa Kornett is a garden form and a hybrid too.
The plants available now under the name Rosa Kornett are a mixup of Hybrids just as Goldenes Kornett is. You will receive a Rosa Kornett or maybe HG - 127 from some suppliers when you order Rothkirch as they do not know what the real Rothkirch looks like.

I will back cross Rothkirch descendants to their mother to see, if it is possible to receive a plant with almost the same genetics as the original plant. At the moment this seems to be the only chance, to get this valuable plant free of Virus as all efforts through meristem have failed so far.

Herbstein, Germany(Zone 5a)

After Mrs. Neu passed away, Madame Blin and myself continued
in working together. Mme Blin had seedlings out of my crosses and I had some of hers. There has never been the question about who is the breeder. She never claimed or named my hybrids nor did I. We respected each other and still do so.

Mrs. Neus Grazie was named by mistake as Kurpark Bad Salzschlirf. I have a sprout mutation with variegated leaves
from this plant and named it Grazie variegata to honor Mrs. Neu, so original name will not be lost or forgotten.


FSH, TX

Monika,
I have to say that is a most honorable. I can only say this much. I am honored to be able to grow any of your seeds and they will be the first batch that I grow up and watch each and every one flower as I have seen so many of your wonderful hybrids I don't think when it flowers should have any bearing on anything so beautiful. If my own hybrids were anywhere near as astounding as yours then perhaps I would not be so focused on early bloomers. Though, one might think that if I let more than a few bloom from each cross I might get lucky and get something as beautiful as you. Still, that may still be just wishful thinking. I am grateful for the opportunity to grow any of your seeds as I think anyone here should be. I will post pictures of each and everyone as they come up and as they bloom. I fully intend to use your hybrids seedlings in my hybridizing program. Here's hoping.

Herbstein, Germany(Zone 5a)

I am very curious what flowers these hybrids will have.
It is still exciting. At the moment I have nearly 250 seedlings out of flore plena Carmencita (flore plena Charleston x aurea Rothkirch) x Ecuador Pink, flore plena Rosa Zauber (Pink Magic)( aurea Rothkirch x flore plena Charleston) x Ecuador Pink, flore plena Fandango (flore plena Charleston x Luminosa) x versicolor Apricot Queen and can hardly await to see them bloom sometimes in the summer. This will give me sleepless nights again.

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

it's nice to hear that even as many blooms as you've seen, you still get excited!! I can't sleep waiting for seeds to sprout, when I have buds, I'm a madwoman!!

Newberry, FL(Zone 8B)

Monika, will give me sleepless nights too! thank you so much for sharing your passion with us, as we are brug nuts too, and don't have access to all those beautiful brugs you have and have hybridized!

Herbstein, Germany(Zone 5a)

I will help you as much as I can. You all are able to breed such hybrids. It has been a long way to reach the point I am now. I learned by own mistakes. I have raised many seedlings only to throw them away after seeing the first flower.

Angleton, TX(Zone 9a)

Monika,
I will be anxious to see how beautiful your 250 little seedlings turn out. We will all be waiting for pictures this summer.

Frannie

FSH, TX

Crazzy myself with Brugmansia fever. Dreaming of Rothkirch x Butterfly, Rothkirch x Rosabelle, Rothkirck x Lamour....and so many more....Of course Culebra x Rothkirch, Culebra x Butterfly, Culebra x Rosabelle, Culebra x arborea...Arborea x Rothkirch.....I think I can, I think I can...oh please let it be....

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

Eric,
NativeHabitat is supposed to have Rothkirch this summer!!!

Herbstein, Germany(Zone 5a)

Dont cross Rosabelle or Butterfly with Rothkirch unless you want a a similar plant as Rothkirch. Parents of Rosabelle, Butterfly etc are Rothkirch x B. x candida Ocre. I avoid to accumulate to much aurea in a hybrid. The flowers will become smaller and the growth stronger.

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

monika, you probably just encouraged Eric!! That's what he likes, smaller flowers:)

FSH, TX

Tig,
Yes, Native Habitat has had Rothkirch for a quite some time now. I didn't know they were ready to release this one yet though. Thanks for that information.
Monika and Tig,
And as always, yes I do prefer the smaller flowers with stronger growth. This is very encouraging. I would like to cross these to some yellow aurea types though as well for some petite peaches. What I would really enjoy...a very petite dark pink-red double with culebra like leaves. Of course I must confess I like flowers that open up with a flare the way suaveolens hybrids do as well. Short calyx....

Herbstein, Germany(Zone 5a)

have several small flowered Brugs. Duftglöckchen single with a very slow growth but covered with flowers, Schneeflöckchen single with odd leaves, Doppelkornett double flower, 12cm cream to apricot, Baby Bolero double, compact growth, apricot tinged, Alicia, candida pink flowers, slow grower. You have to get used to them. I prefer larger flowers.

FSH, TX

Okay, here goes...Very velvety leaves that glisten as the morning dew is lit up by the first rays of the sun, serrated of course and very narrow. Dark double petite pink-red flowering profusely so as to cover almost all green. Seedpod shape desired to be round and flower size no longer than 5 inches...mouth should open up to be 5 inches wide as well and roll back with 3 inch long tendrils that twirl tightly in a clockwise manner. Must be a vigourous grower and good repeat bloomer. If one could throw in an impossible cross to an arborea in that mix or have varigated foliage in that same hybrid then of course that in itself would be my perfect Brugmansia....Asking too much? Okay, make mine half arborea...lol. Seriously, do you have something like this that you have hybridized already as you have released to the public such beautiful hybrids already. Please, if you could spare even a few seeds from a hybrid such as this I would toss all my seeds away. I know you must have something close, but then you are attracted to those large flowers...egads. Thanks so much for allowing us to use some of your hybrids in the mean time from seed.

This message was edited Thursday, Feb 7th 10:24 AM

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

hey Eric, I want on your list for that one!!! wouldn't that be beautiful??

Biloxi, MS(Zone 8b)

Brugman,
sounds good to me...I'd like a cutting when you get a plant... noticed I said when and not if. :0)

Woodsville, NH(Zone 4a)

That will be stunning.And just think, it WILL be more than a dream before you know it. :)
tiG, Hope you're feeling better from that virus.

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

thanks snow, still feverish and coughing my head off. Trying to tend to plants and move some to still another room I've confiscated.

FSH, TX

You had better get better here soon Tig. One can never have enough seeds or rooms to put them in.

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

I heard that!! LOL:) DH is wondering how I'm going to start all the 'regular' seeds, you know, tomatoes, peppers, other flowers.

Herbstein, Germany(Zone 5a)

I hoped to obtain someday the perfect Brugmansia. But I am still not satisfied; As soon as the seed germinates, I would like to see a note attached, telling me double or single, white or colored and and and.........
But no favors, they refuse to tell me whatever will be......!lol

I have several seed pods to ripe out. The Rosa Zauber (double pink) x Ecuador Pink is the most important cross as Rosa Zauber needs improvement. But I have many more seedlings, all bred for double flowers and of course: in pink. They should bloom this year. Another cross is Ecuador Pink x aurea Rothkirch. The plants are already taller as I am.

There are also young plants bred for double flowers in orange and apricot. Mother plant is Fandango and there is a seed pod on Fandango x Apricot Queen.

I have seed pods on Rosalie x Ecuador Pink. My expectations are high. During winter I study my genealogical charts, compare the offspring of plants before I make the breeding plan ready. My hybrids are the result of planned breeding.




Woodsville, NH(Zone 4a)

Monika, All of your hard work shows in the beauty of the flowers that you have produced. I can't get enough of looking at the pictures of your plants. The care that you put into hybridizing shows in the breathtaking beauty of the flowers.

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

monika, you're funny! I'd love to see that little note come out too:)

FSH, TX

I take it you like Ecuador pink. Is that because it throws out a particular trait you like and if so which traits do you find you like the best from that hybrid. Rothkirch x Ecuador pink sounds like a dark pink in the midst perhaps? Please, any pointers on creating a double pink aurea or double pink suaveolens? And yes, I agee it would be nice if each of the colored seeds came out and said pick me. Of course if they said hey I am a double or a double pink that would be nice too.

FSH, TX

I take it you like Ecuador pink. Is that because it throws out a particular trait you like and if so which traits do you find you like the best from that hybrid. Rothkirch x Ecuador pink sounds like a dark pink in the midst perhaps? Please, any pointers on creating a double pink aurea or double pink suaveolens? And yes, I agee it would be nice if each of the colored seeds came out and said pick me. Of course if they said hey I am a double or a double pink that would be nice too.

Vancouver Island, BC(Zone 8b)

Brugman, let's not ask Monika to give away all her trade secrets in the first week. LOL

Cicero, NY(Zone 5a)

Yeah,we'll wait till next week(just kidin)

FSH, TX

Crazzy,
Well I must admit I like Ecuador pink as she seems to throw out more colors than some of the other hybrids. Of course as Monika has many more secrets then we could ever possibly wish to know or retain...yes of course I want to know them all! 0nly time and hard effort can produce the hybrids she has created and anyone would be lucky to recieve any seeds from her.

Herbstein, Germany(Zone 5a)

I like Ecuador Pink. Its not a sraight versicolor but more a candida. You can see that aurea parentage on the form of the flower and the long tips (Zipfel). She does not only brings the color but also the needed trait for doubles.

White dominates in Brugmansia over all other colors. The early flore plenas are all white. Their genetic background is unknown. We dont know if both parents were whites or if a peach colored versicolor was one parent. You will not know unless you use these plants for breeding. I use flore plena Charleston as main breeding plant. All of my double hybrids are Charleston kids. The father plant must be choosen carefully. If there is a white parent on his side, you will receive only white flowers.

My next generation comes out of Carmencita, a rich blooming cream colored double fl. Charleston x Rothkirch - daughter. The father plant is Ecuador Pink. She brings not only the needed color but also the trait to keep double offspring coming. It will take some years to the wanted result.

Rosa Zauber is more a aurea hybrid as a candida. Since the flower is pink double, Ecuador Pink will make the trait double and pink even stronger. It will be an improvment I am sure.

I could make a cross this year and send the seeds next year to you with the guarantee of a double pink. How about that? You all might sit in jail because of neglect of the import rules and the goverment inspector has his joy with double pinks!!!!!!!

Hamilton, Canada

Monika,
You have a sense of humour, I like that. I'm on the list next year for the double pink cross seeds that you will attempt this year.

I can hardly keep up with all the information you are giving us about hybridization. I'll bet that some great new crosses will come out of North America from now on with the information you have provided!
Joydie

Angleton, TX(Zone 9a)

Monika your information is so fascinating. I agree with Joydie - your information has been a valuable asset to all of us.
Frannie

Vancouver Island, BC(Zone 8b)

Brugman, you got your answer.

Monika, you are so wonderful to share this information with all of us. I can't believe how lucky we are to have you here. Now I know which crosses I will try and make. Might take a few years or more but what could be more pleasurable.

FSH, TX

Are you saying that a Dr.Sues x Ecuador pink X(Dr.Sues x Ecuador pink could give doubles and more importantly doubles in color? Or am I seriously missing something?

Vancouver Island, BC(Zone 8b)

Brugman, I think she is saying that when crossing with Charleston x Ecuador Pink, you are more likely to get a pink double than white double. The traits of EP will keep the pink colour, not reverting to white which is dominant in doubles and a lot of other crosses. That is my interpretation.

Altamonte Springs, FL(Zone 9a)

I just finished reading all the posts on this thread....this is so exciting...Monika, thanks for sharing so much with us...we will all be picking your brain!! I can't wait to start crossing my own....hopefully this year...meanwhile, I will be attending classes here at BRUG UNIVERSITY.

Suzy

Herbstein, Germany(Zone 5a)

Dr. Sues? does it look like CG?

You have to start with a double as Mother plant, otherwise it will not work. To continue you must use the doubles resulting out of the cross. Or you have to go the classic way, breed a single B. aurea to a single versicolor (both parents must be pure, no mix with other species) and hope to get a double. The short cut would be; start with a double your breeding program.

The starter plant of all doubles was flore plena Tutu. But she is very prone to virus. I have a double from a breeder friend; Velvet Lady. But the best is flore plena Charleston.

You are right brugcrazy. Charleston x Ecuador Pink is not proven yet to bring double pink, I had only very few
seedlings, I have to repeat it. But the cross of Charleston with another hybrid did bring double pinks, but they are not approved yet.

FSH, TX

Dr.Sues is an aurea x suaveolens x versicolor hybrid...sorry, I don't know which hybrids were used. It looks very similar to CG and if I had a CG I would tell you how similar. I no longer have either one though as I am done with Dr.Sues for a while and will acquire it again if I decide to hybridize with it again. I can tell you that I do like the fragrance of the Dr.Sues and it was a good seed setter. My Amber Rose and Dr.D were both created from Dr.Sues with Ecuador pink as the pollen donor. If I am understanding you correctly though my Amber Rose will never be able to create a Double pink by merely crossing to a pink aurea which leads me to my next question...where does one find a pure pink aurea and a pure pink versicolor? I would not mind crossing the two together if I knew even one seed in 1000 would create a double pink for sure. When is a hybrid considered pure? How many times must a hybrid which is aurea x suaveolens x versicolor x( Ecuador pink) be crossed to a versicolor before it is considered pure enough to create a double when crossed to a pure aurea or is it never pure? Sorry, but you have me genuinely amazed with your depth of knowledge and I am eager to learn. It is a bit disappointing though as I would like to cross my Amber Rose to an aurea and eventually make her into a double pink or peach.... I am wanting to use Butterfly, Rosabelle, and Rothkirch to create a double pink. As Butterfly and Rosabelle are not pure aurea's what are the chances of creating a double with them if any with simply crossing them to Ecuador pink...If I am understanding you correctly there is no chance. Crossing Butterfly or Rosabelle to a double though...is that worth while. I am raising my first crosses to Candida species as we speak and I don't expect any blooms until this fall from this cross and perhaps later. Ohh, how I would like be able to peek into your mind for just a few moments...that combined with years of effort and determination and I would have a beautiful double pink I am sure. Of course by then you will have that perfect Brugmansia you are after and we will still all be light years behind you.

This message was edited Friday, Feb 8th 11:00 AM

Cicero, NY(Zone 5a)

Would the double peach versicolor(fron Native Habitat) crossed with Ecuador Pink be the combination?Or is that just too easy? Sorry,I forgot,then cross those seedlings to butterfly?

This message was edited Friday, Feb 8th 11:51 AM

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