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Heirloom Vegetables: Antique Ornamentals anyone?

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planman38104
Memphis, TN
(Zone 7a)

April 28, 2002
12:08 AM

Post #28006

I see a lot of information on this site about heirloom vegetables and fruits but very little about heirloom ornamentals. Not only the vegetable garden plants that your Grandmother grew are inportant to pass to the next generation but also the flowers that she grew. Their are wonderful plants that are gone the way of the dinosaurs. Love to hear about the plants your ancestors grew in thier flower beds. Their are antique varieties of roses (known to the romans), peonies, tulips (did you know that tulip bulbs were a form of currency in the middle ages), and many, many others that we are being conditioned to forget because of the neon annuals at every nursery. Grandma had time to wait for biennials to bloom - we seldom do. Anyone interested in antique ornamentals out there? Here is a photo of one of the first amaryllis hybridized in the early 1800's and is hardy to zone 7 - called St. Joseph Lily.

Thumbnail by planman38104
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Kathleen
Panama, NY
(Zone 5a)

April 28, 2002
10:31 AM

Post #251091

lol, I just took the "test" over in roses, let's see how I do here. I have hollyhocks from my grandmother. From this farm, I have Valerian, several peonies including the fern leaved single, millions of daffs in several varieties, Johnny-jump-ups/heart's ease, Chinese lanterns, tansy, 3 mints, lupines, flowering spurge and phox. There are also Jack-in-pulpit, violets, native azaleas - one salmon, one pink, and old purple and brown iris.

I know - Brook asked me to do this months ago and I apologize for being so slow and waiting for someone else to start the thread.
REDROSE
New Iberia, LA
(Zone 9a)

April 28, 2002
1:50 PM

Post #251187

Very beautiful

melody

melody
Benton, KY
(Zone 7a)


April 28, 2002
1:50 PM

Post #251188

Beautiful pic! And yes,heirlooms do not just mean veggies! I wish some of you Flower folk would drift over here and help us out.

The subject that I am most educated on is veggies,and I can talk for awhile on that and feel like I'm making a contribution,but we could really use some help with the ornamentals over here.

I'm interested in anything historical and would love some of you who are educated in the field to start some threads.I'm anxious to learn more,but don't know the right questions to ask.Please continue...

Baa

April 29, 2002
2:14 PM

Post #251824

And there I was thinking I was alone in growing old flower forms and varities.

I have a few little grown plant varieties. Nothing from my grandparents, when they were gardening there were very few seed varieties available to the average gardener and many choice plants would have been lost if it hadn't been for the large house gardeners and the occasional barely touched gardens. I believe strongly in the need to conserve old varieties and breeds of plants (flower and veg) as well as animals, I feel they are an important gene pool which mustn't be lost.

http://www.online.nccpg.org/
The link is to the UK and Ireland's plant and garden conservation group. What are the conservation groups in your area?
JustJen
Dansville, NY
(Zone 6a)

April 30, 2002
11:50 PM

Post #252774

i also have St Josephs amaryillis.
so far what ive been able to id EARLY PEARL daffs, VAN SION daffs, and parrot glads.
i dont have any heirloom plants other than bulbs, although i was given a packet of an heirloom celosia that i havent planted yet, more out of fear because i kill EVERYTHING i try from seed.
interesting subject,
jen
Kelly333
Longview, TX

May 10, 2002
8:33 PM

Post #259056

I have a few heirlooms...they are lovely. I see why they've lasted so long.
debi_z
Springfield, MA
(Zone 6a)

May 16, 2002
10:17 PM

Post #262726

that is a gorgeous lily. where would i purchase something like this? i wish i was into gardening when my grama was alive. she and my grandfather were tobacco farmers in Deerfield, Massachusetts. she always had a huge vegetable garden but she always made time for flowers. i remember zinnias and sweet william. but i haven't been able to find the varieties i remember her having. something always seems "different" about the ones i see on seed packs and for sale.

Terry

Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)


May 16, 2002
11:54 PM

Post #262787

I'm hoping to find some Byzantine Gladiolus bulbs this year - I think they're considered an heirloom flower, but even if not a true heirloom, they have a nice form :)
swoznick
Burlington, NC
(Zone 7b)

May 17, 2002
3:01 AM

Post #262971

Hey folks. I've ordered from a company called heirloom seed company. They have a variety of flowers as well as veggies. Also they have a monthly email newsletter that is quite good. They are very dedicated to quality heirloom seed offerings and the service was great. I got mostly veggies - and the germination rate has been superb. You can download their cataloge - and each variety has a short history with it. Check them out! http://www.heirloomseed.com

swoznick
tiG
Newnan, GA
(Zone 8a)

May 17, 2002
4:22 AM

Post #263020

I went to that site, they don't have flowers and aren't taking orders. just on a hunch I put in an 's'. http://www.heirloomseeds.com had some great seeds.

Terry

Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)


May 17, 2002
1:00 PM

Post #263112

The Garden Watchdog has about 90 companies listed in the heirloom seed category - I think I got catalogs from almost all of them this spring, LOL.
CoCo

May 17, 2002
3:14 PM

Post #263155

OH,Plantman,you just melted my heart with this picture. My kind of color and what a beautiful lily and such a wonderful picture. Now,one like that I would frame.
KathyJo
Fayette, MO
(Zone 6a)

May 17, 2002
4:34 PM

Post #263176

I live on the adjoining farm where I grew up. My brother lives in my childhood home and doesn't have the appreciation of the few things that grow there and have withstood the test of time.
The most amazing rose I have ever seen grows there. I have looked to find pictures of it, but haven't found it yet. I am going to move more of this rose bush to my farm here in a few days. I believe it may be a victorian rose? Kathleen or someone may want to jump in here. It's bloom looks like some of the very old pictures I see in books. Large pink blossoms. My brother even started mowing some of it down.
The other thing I rescued is a white lilac. My brother dug it up and threw it in the "hollow". I about fainted. It is now putting up new shoots here. But I think I need to replant in a sunnier location.
and there is the ever present bridal wreath spirea. One whiff of this and I am a little girl again.
planman38104
Memphis, TN
(Zone 7a)

May 18, 2002
12:44 AM

Post #263420

KathyJo - I truly love those plants that remind you of your special moments from the past - the roses your grandmother grew or the bush she always had around her house. Try to rescue as many of those old plants from your mothers and one day someone will ask you where you found those wonderful flowers and then you will be able to remember again. There is a lot of interest in the old antique roses and you might be able to post a pic on the rose forum and someone might be able to identify it.
planman38104
Memphis, TN
(Zone 7a)

April 23, 2003
10:21 AM

Post #517747

Believe it or not but I have been very lucky - I have found St. Joseph Lily on ebay and have bought large blooming size bulbs for just $5.00 each. If anyone is interested in where I have got these bulbs I will print the email for you - just leave a message.
ecobioangie
Mableton, GA
(Zone 7b)

April 29, 2003
2:21 PM

Post #522699

The two things I remember from my Grandma's are the white flowering dogwood by the back steps and the black eyed susans out front. I have the rudbeckia and will have a dogwood soon. :)
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

April 30, 2003
2:30 AM

Post #523169

I love to read Garden Catalogs with interesting stories and history. This Flower Scent fella is fun, seems like he goes all out to tell stories.
http://www.flowerscentgardens.com/
trillium_girl
Penfield, NY
(Zone 6a)

June 6, 2003
3:22 PM

Post #547721

That St. Joseph Lily is awesome. Got me to looking. This was interesting.

http://www.plantanswers.com/grant4.htm

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

June 6, 2003
3:29 PM

Post #547725

Terry, last Fall I planted a bunch of Byzantine Gladiolus bulbs for a client. I got them from Van Engelen. They were lovely this year when they bloomed, and for sure I will plant some in my garden!

I usually take photos, but was without my camera when I visited her garden to see what all the bulbs looked like... so sorry.

Terry

Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)


June 6, 2003
9:07 PM

Post #547999

Hmmm, well now I'm confused. Old House Gardens says theirs are the genuine article, and here's their photo:
http://www.oldhousegardens.com/bigFlwr.asp?Cat=byzGlad

Van Engelen's looks different:
http://www.vanengelen.com/catview.cgi?_fn=Item&_recordnum=3520&_category=Best:Misc

And the prices sure are different - $7-9 per bulb at OHG, vs. 100 for $13.50 at Van Engelen's.

Anybody know for sure which is which, or if they're really one and the same?

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

June 6, 2003
9:45 PM

Post #548015

Terry, the ones I planted look like a cross between the two...
Baa

June 6, 2003
10:09 PM

Post #548040

OHG clearly shows G. communis subsp. byzantinus although it's often still sold as G. byzantinus.

G.c. byzantinus is almost always a shocking magenta colour with pale markings on a quite large lip and two of those features aren't present in the Van E photo.

The bulbs however are markedly cheaper here, $7-9 per bulb makes me turn the same colour as the flowers!

Terry

Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)


June 6, 2003
10:46 PM

Post #548067

Me, too Baa. That's why I was waiting to order some (looks like they need to be planted in the fall anyway), and hoping I'd find a less expensive source in the meantime.

I admire what OHG has done for heirloom bulbs, but the price of these glads makes me cringe. I also had my eye on Gladiolus 'Atom', a mid-20th century hybrid they've resurrected. I found a package of them locally at our Amish-run nursery, and now I'm anxious to see what they look like when they bloom. :)
Kathleen
Panama, NY
(Zone 5a)

June 7, 2003
1:09 PM

Post #548587

Terry, you've got mail.
dayflower
Gonzales, LA
(Zone 9a)

June 21, 2003
1:07 PM

Post #561854

OK, you Louisiana folks, we have lots of heirlome plants down here to show off, how about the Cashmere Bouquet plant for one, spreads like crazy, & winter hardy.

Thumbnail by dayflower
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Aimee
Georgetown, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 27, 2003
6:00 AM

Post #628841

Most interesting glads! Makes me wonder if a little thing I dug up in the woods is an heirloom. It's a glad, small bulbs, small fuschia blooms. I hope I can get photos next year and maybe someone can id it for me.
planman38104
Memphis, TN
(Zone 7a)

August 27, 2003
10:57 PM

Post #629535

Aimee I grew up seeing just such a plant in all the country gardens of all the little old ladies in West Tennessee. I have tried to find just those old gladiola like plants and the closest I can come to them is the Byzantine mentioned previously in this thread. Love to see
a pic!
Aimee
Georgetown, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 28, 2003
3:16 AM

Post #629864

They didn't bloom this year, I'm sure because I had neglected them after I potted them up to make room for the porch. All of this reminds me that I need to be sure to put some bulb food in that pot, and maybe I'll get blooms to show next year. I will check my photos from previous years, but I don't recall ever taking any of them.
Jerri_OKC
Oklahoma City, OK
(Zone 7a)

September 21, 2003
3:50 PM

Post #656210

I have an unusual pink flowering quince that my grandmother grew. My Dad took cuttings and now I have a small plant that came from cuttings of his plant!
I never knew my Grandmother but having 'her' shrub gives me a really good feeling - a connection I didn't feel before.

I also have more pass along plants/cuttings than I can count from my father. I can't say they are true 'Heirloom's' but they are very special to me.

Jerri
berrygirl
Braselton, GA
(Zone 7b)

September 21, 2003
11:36 PM

Post #656551

I am very interested in heirloom flowers like my granny grew!!! In hindsight, I wish I'd have written down what she told me about her flowers. She's gone now but I'm on a mission to find what she loved. I do have the old-fashioned vining petunia and the "touch-me-nots" that she loved so much. I am not impressed by the latest new thing to come along. I'd rather have the tried and true.
Alyssum
Cortlandt Manor, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 20, 2003
6:01 PM

Post #686553

Plantman -- I would love to know the source of your St. Joseph Lily.
berrygirl
Braselton, GA
(Zone 7b)

October 20, 2003
11:43 PM

Post #686812

Alyssum, so would I. I want one so badly even before I saw these gorgeous photos!!!!!!! Come on Plantman, fess up!!!!
planman38104
Memphis, TN
(Zone 7a)

October 23, 2003
12:47 AM

Post #688739

I got some on ebay and lucked up on a neighbor that had some - didn't know what he had - and he let me divide his bed for some bulbs. There are some available for sale on the general market. Might be under the name amarylis johnsonii. Good luck
berrygirl
Braselton, GA
(Zone 7b)

October 23, 2003
11:49 PM

Post #689769

Dear Plant man, you are indeed a lucky man!!!! Thanks for the info.
Alyssum
Cortlandt Manor, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 24, 2003
12:12 AM

Post #689798

Berrygirl -- Plant Delights Nursery sells them. I went ahead and ordered one -- how could I resist???
berrygirl
Braselton, GA
(Zone 7b)

October 24, 2003
12:29 AM

Post #689812

Alyssum, were they terribly expensive???
Alyssum
Cortlandt Manor, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 24, 2003
5:46 PM

Post #690399

They are $15 a piece at plant delights and $30 a piece at Old House Garden's.
berrygirl
Braselton, GA
(Zone 7b)

October 25, 2003
12:03 AM

Post #690763

Thank you so much for the info!!!!
Alyssum
Cortlandt Manor, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 26, 2003
6:03 PM

Post #692162

berrygirl -- check out this . . . http://davesgarden.com/t/404003/
berrygirl
Braselton, GA
(Zone 7b)

October 26, 2003
8:56 PM

Post #692329

Dear Alyssum thanks for another source. I now have several to choose from. B/C of finances, I prob. will wait to buy somw, though. Have you planted yours yet?
Alyssum
Cortlandt Manor, NY
(Zone 6a)

October 27, 2003
1:07 AM

Post #692593

Actually -- I think I am going to cancel my order with plant delights.

The wholesaler who Waterpond Farms is using for the current Hellebores co-op also will be selling them in the spring. He is starting to get into retail sales and said he would give me a good deal . . . so I may just wait too.
bermudakiller
Union Grove, AL

March 15, 2006
5:30 PM

Post #2114594

I definitly have some heirlooms either here or at my mothers, lots of old daff, some unusual magnoilias several roses, some purchased some handed down,various old irises, some peonies, a few old daylilies, sedum,snowflakes, mints, lotus, ferns january jasmine, and grape hycinths.

have a great deal of interest but running out of room
berrygirl
Braselton, GA
(Zone 7b)

March 15, 2006
11:52 PM

Post #2115312

Bermuda,
Thanks for bringing up this old thread! You are SO very blessed to have those heirlooms not only b/c they're old but b/c they are from family.

I would LOVE to see pics when they are in bloom!!!
bermudakiller
Union Grove, AL

March 16, 2006
12:51 PM

Post #2116226

Hey berrygirl, I'm not set up for digital pics at this point but when i am I'll sure send some.
bermudakiller
Union Grove, AL

November 8, 2007
11:26 AM

Post #4170587

I tried some new to me seed this year and have been very pleased with several. Abelmoschus manihot, the edible hibiscus and Ricinic communis, New Zealand purple, not sure of the age of this variety, but castor bean has been around a long time, both have been nice and the purple leaves of the castor bean are really stunning in the garden.
madrid2000
Humble, TX

April 4, 2008
1:07 AM

Post #4753440

I admired this lily all over my neighborhood until I found some bulbs in my own backyard hidden behind some bannana trees. Here is a picture I took today. I have been trying to identify them. So far I think they look the most like the St. Joseph lily. Let me know what you think.

Thumbnail by madrid2000
Click the image for an enlarged view.

bermudakiller
Union Grove, AL

April 4, 2008
4:06 PM

Post #4756437

Probably, but the ones around here have a slightly larger star, slightly narrower petals and the bloom is more lily shaped, could easily be differences caused by shade
madrid2000
Humble, TX

April 5, 2008
11:57 AM

Post #4760447

Here is a closer shot.

Thumbnail by madrid2000
Click the image for an enlarged view.

bermudakiller
Union Grove, AL

April 5, 2008
1:41 PM

Post #4760817

differences are subtle but still there, should be blooming here before long and i'll look at knowns and report back, several clients have them.
louparris
Houston, TX
(Zone 9a)

April 28, 2008
5:26 PM

Post #4877294

I love heirloom ornamentals. Dr. William Welch, formerly of Texas and now of Mississippi, and Greg Grant have written a wonderful book about Southern heirloom gardens. Fortunately, if you haven't inherited these, the book has a source list of likely nurseries.. My sister very much loves antique roses but she has a fair amount of sun, and I have very little. There is a marvelous place near Houston called The Antique Rose Emporium. It has other flowers too, but they are mostly sun-lovers. I have a lot of heirloom plants - some inherited, some passed along,and some (oh, gasp!) bought. The "big box" nurseries don't carry them, but there are nurseries that specialize.
bermudakiller
Union Grove, AL

May 10, 2008
10:44 PM

Post #4934048

I'd be happier with another opinion to back me up, but the St. John's Lilies that are around here have sharper petals and bigger stars than your pic. Good chance it is an amaryllis (Hippeastrum).
madrid2000
Humble, TX

May 11, 2008
3:05 AM

Post #4934986

What ever it is, I do love it and think it is beautiful. It is also very hardy here which is nice.
Tabitha
harmony58
Rogers, AR
(Zone 7a)

February 2, 2009
8:52 PM

Post #6084058

I picked up some Byzantine Gladiolus this fall on sale from http://www.brentandbeckysbulbs.com/
but I don't see any listed in their Summer 2009 catalog.

I've ordered bulbs from them since they were the Daffodil Mart and they are always the best so I'm expecting good results. The ones on their site were the magenta variety.
cowpea123
Coushatta, LA

February 3, 2009
4:15 AM

Post #6086101

I just dug a lot glads yesterday from a old house place.
yehudith
silver spring, MD
(Zone 7a)

February 24, 2009
6:05 PM

Post #6183821

My favorites are the heirlooem plants. I get a lot from Select Seeds. they include information about the date of introduction etc.

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