History lesson from Kyle's archives

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

The fabled question...where did these hybrids/plants originate.......here goes will take a while to get all the data out.I found all of my research papers from way back.After contacting many different people involved with plant introductions on the west coast,heres the SCOOP!Make sure you all take this data down for your breeding records.

DR.SUESS= is a natural hybrid collected in Pasto Columbia at around 10,000ft elevation by Hetty Krauss of Calif.The cultivar was then (mid 70's) called "Hetty Krauss" after the collector.The cultivar does poorly(less flowers) in high heat.Likes cool evenings and warm days for best performance.It was distributed in the late 70's by Steve brigham of Encinitas calif.It was named 'Dr Suess' by a friend of mine from San Diego in the 80's. So "Hetty Krauss" is actually the original name and considered the Legal name.Dale Kolaczkowski..now works at Walter Anderson Nursery in San Diego, decided with a co-worker to name the plant in honor of the real Dr. Suess the writer of childrens books from La Jolla calif.
"Charles Grimaldi"hybrid=

Steve Brigham and his co-worker Bartley Schwartz decided since Dr. Suess didn't do well in high heat areas, that they would cross it with Insignis "Frosty Pink"( more on the history of FP later on)
Bartley chose a seedling that had more heat tolerance and larger flowers and named it :"Charles Grimaldi" after a deceased friend of his.the former Charles Grimaldi was a talented Landscape designer from the Bay area of Northern calif.

Insignis "Frosty Pink"= is a hybrid cross of Suaveolens white (natural cultivar) by Versicolor pink (natural cultivar) it was named by Steve brigham of Encinitas..but was not his hybrid...he doesn't remember who's it was originally.

Jean Pasko NOTICE THE CORRECT SPELLING with a "K" not a "C"
This plant was collected in the early 80's by a person of the same name in southern Calif.Collected in Columbia...possibly a natural hybrid...was the only plant like it in the area.Tommie Lockwood also noticed and collected many "one of a kind" cultivars in columbia also noted they might be accidental crosses done by insects.

Suaveolens Hybrid "Betty Marshall"= the true origin of this plant will never be known as the woman it was named after died in England some years ago.She was a collector of extremely rare plants at the time she was President of the Southern calif Horticultural society.the plant is no doubt a chance seedling of suaveolens, which is self fertile in the wild state.True suaveolens from the wild can produce seeds if self pollinated and come true to form from seed as Arborea does.The plant was given to Betty as a gift from an unknown collector.It is an improved suaveolens clone.More flowers and better seed setting abilities.

other questions can be emailed to me if you have them concerning these plants.
I had almost forgotten all the data I collected in my pursuit of accurate records of these plants.
WHEW!!!!!long post... :-)

Westbrook, ME(Zone 5a)

Thanks for sharing the info Kyle. It's good to for us to have someone like you to teach us this valuable information. That's interesting about the wild suaveolens being self fertile. Do you know if Betty Marshall is self fertile too?

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

Not sure about Betty Marshall being self fertile I no longer have it in my collection.Wild suaveolens grow wild in eastern Brazil in a small area......thosands of miles from all other wild brug populations.Sanquinea is self fertile in the wild too.

Newnan, GA(Zone 8a)

this is fascinating stuff Kyle, thanks tons!!

Coal Center, PA(Zone 6a)

You get a hug!
This is the kind of info I've been wanting to learn.
I have printed and will be studying this tonight. lol
Thanks, Kyle (o:

Saint Petersburg, FL(Zone 9b)

great info thanks for sharing

Herbstein, Germany(Zone 5a)

A big ((HUGHS))(do you accept a shy kiss too?) (old lady is blushing!!!) from me?

Thats very very interesting and explains, why CG is so heavy in suaveol. genes. Your information will improve my records and hybridizing plans as well. Thank you so much again, Kyle!

Grass Lake, MI(Zone 5a)

Thanks Kyle for sharing this information. Your the best!

FSH, TX

Frosty pink is an unknown suaveolens white x unknown versicolor pink x suaveolens white? Charles Grimaldi is Dr.Sues x Frosty pink? Unknown in this case stands for wild unnamed species I take it. Wish I had of known this earlier before I made so many Dr.Sues x Frosty pink crosses and Frosty pink x Dr.Sues crosses. There has to be tons of those seedling crosses floating around out there now. Just more to add to the confusion.

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

Frosty pink is Versicolor pink (not EP) crossed by a white suaveolens.

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

Tonny...found both names used in the past in nurseries in Calif.So I guess it can have a compound label IE... Dr. Suess/ Hetty Krauss.

Both individuals are now deceased.

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

From Columbia comes the most dominant genes, these wild forms whether natural hybrids(insect crossed) or pure previously unknown forms produce the most wanted hybrids.
From Rothkirch,ocre,Jean Pasko,Hetty Krauss/Dr suess,esmeraldas,and others.....these are the most dominant parents for crosses.

Brugvalley, Germany(Zone 7b)

Hi Kyle,

very much thanks for this real good informations!!!

Greetings Ludger

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

Your are all most welcome........gee I'd just about forgotten about all the detailed info I had collected and all the people searching I did a few years back..ran across all my data sheets last night and knew you all could use the data.Like the old Chinese proverb goes...."jin qwa liao fun shu" :-)

Brugvalley, Germany(Zone 7b)

Kyle, do you have such a selffertile suavolens?
Or is this a watching from "wild growing areas" ?
Greetings Ludger

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

suaveolens in most collections are the result of many crosses in the past.I do have seeds from Brazil that were collected in the wild from pure wild clones.When these exist in singular colonies (only white suaveolens)and are seperated from all other species but themselves by a thousand miles of rainforest..it would be safe to assume that they are self fertile.How else would seeds be possible?And like arborea and sanquinea..suaveolens(pure wild form) come true to form from seeds.This pertains only to wild forms..not man made hybrids.

Northern California, CA(Zone 9b)

Eclipse, I just saw a Hetty Krauss for sale in a Berkeley nursery awhile back and did not know what it was....... and it was not in flower.

thanks for sharing

Brugvalley, Germany(Zone 7b)

Sorry,smile,

selffertile is to me: If you have one suavolens with flowers and you can pollinate at this suavolens flower to flower and will get seeds.

In a wild area with many different suavolens probably you will have different genetic brugs, this brugs can pollinate against each other.

Want to say: Two white suavolensseeds , growing to flower, and pollinate against to each. This is not selffertile.

You have two different plants with different genes.

I am excited ( mean it in the best way, smile).

Hope I may wonder...m waiting for replay.
Greetings Ludger

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

Kell..the nursery where CG was born sometimes still sells it as "Hetty Krauss"... :-)

Deep South Coastal, TX(Zone 10a)

Thanks Kyle, this is great. Eric, good to see you again.

Chariton, IA(Zone 5b)

Thanks Kyle. It is always nice to know a little or more about what we are growing and crossing with. My printer is working today......... :-)

Milton, FL(Zone 8a)

Thanks Kyle,Please post more of this as time permits.This will be a great help to all of us hybridizer wannabes.

Woodsville, NH(Zone 4a)

Kyle, Thanks so much for this valuable information. Just got done printing it out.

Cicero, NY(Zone 5a)

Thanks Kyle,you are the MAN!

And do you have more.......

Northern California, CA(Zone 9b)

Which nursery Eclipse?
Ludger, you have such a gracious way of speaking.

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

kell Buena Creek nursery in San Marcos.You have to remember too..I haven't been back to Calif for 5 years now..so things may have changed.

Hamilton, Canada

Kyle as always you are great! Thanks for posting the history on these varieties. This information is worth knowing as not to replicate the same crosses again. In addition, it helps to know what the potential colors which may emerge from a cross.

Tellico Plains, TN(Zone 7b)

*BUMP*

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

LOL I felt that.. LOL

Westbrook, ME(Zone 5a)

I've saved this thread to my favorites and refer to it often :o) Great info!

Kannapolis, NC(Zone 7b)

Great info, Kyle.

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

I did 4 years of research when I started with brugs..then no books were on the market...so I did some field work with nurseries,historians,and herbariums.I have a large library of data on brugs.Some are observations from as far back as 1700's.

Westbrook, ME(Zone 5a)

Very interesting! Are there any old books you'd recommend? I love reading about the early plant explorers.

Denver, CO(Zone 5b)

Excellent info!

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

Several books by the solanaceae researcher Richard Schultes.He Timothy Plowman and Tommie Lockwood were all friends. They all had a penchant for Brugs.All had collected plants in the wild. I have a few seedlings from 10 year old seeds collected by Timothy Plowman.I hope they bloom this year.I want to Honor Timothy with a named flower for his work. Hope these seedlings live up to being worthy..if not I'll name some future flower for him, Tommie Lockwood and Richard Schultes.Richard Schultes died a year or so ago..and Timothy Plowman died a few years back.Tommie Lockwood died in 1975 on a collecting trip in Mexico.

Westbrook, ME(Zone 5a)

I think I have most of the Shultes books. He's my hero! Did you vere meet him? I just read a really great one this winter called "One River" by Wade Davis. He covers a lot of the Dr. Shultes travels through the rainforest, as well as his own explorations with Tomothy Plowman.

Tellico Plains, TN(Zone 7b)

ROFL ... What a coincidence Kyle . I bumped this up and there you were right next to it with a new post in the Forum =))

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

Poppysue..I'll look for that one. I only wished that Tommie Lockwoods thesis had been openly published. It never was at his parents request.I did manage to get a copy purchased from Harvard where the thesis was submitted.Now you can't even get copies purchased anymore.His parents were so upset that people wanted to publish Tommies work.His other books on Solanaceae plants have been published. His thesis had all his observations on hybridization and his notes on breeding and re-classifying the genus Brugmansia. Tommie had went through all the specimens at the Missouri Botanical gardens herbarium years ago.He relisted and re-grouped the different cultivars.Some were from the mid 1800's.

Norwalk, IA(Zone 5b)

Scooterbug. I just noticed that!!LOL

Westbrook, ME(Zone 5a)

Kyle, can you still get the botanical museum leaflets from Harvard?

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