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Trees, Shrubs and Conifers: Sambucus nigra 'Black Beauty'

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Forum: Trees, Shrubs and ConifersReplies: 59, Views: 2,562
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evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

November 14, 2002
5:07 AM

Post #409339

Hello, everyone!

Does anyone know where this might be available in the US?

Thumbnail by evelyn_inthegarden
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MaVieRose
High Desert, CA
(Zone 8a)

November 14, 2002
5:17 AM

Post #409345

hope this help... http://www.pottedliners.com/black_beauty.htm
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

November 14, 2002
5:33 AM

Post #409349

Thanks, MaVieRose,

I already checked that out. They are wholesale.

I just want one!
MaVieRose
High Desert, CA
(Zone 8a)

November 14, 2002
6:21 AM

Post #409366

we have a regular member here @ DG who sells trees on ebay. his member name is Plantranch ... here is his website ... http://plantranch.net/
, send him an email, maybe he can get it for u. he buys wholesale, and sells retail. i bought all my trees and shrubs from him. he has good stock on hand. give Darin/Plantranch a try, u got nothing to lose in asking. anyway, that is what his web site suggest.
jerodsmom
Livermore, CA
(Zone 9a)

July 3, 2004
2:15 PM

Post #935958

You can order this on-line from the Digging Dog Nursery in Albion, Calif.

Patricia

Terry

Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)


July 3, 2004
2:26 PM

Post #935970

Oooooh, how pretty! White Flower Farm also lists it, and Color Choice lists these retail locations for their plants: http://www.colorchoiceplants.com/sources.htm (some of which are in California.)

If someone has a hard copy of Forestfarm's catalog, they can check to see if they have it (their website has been offline since at least last night...)

Greer Gardens lists it - a 2-3' shrub is $23.95 plus s/h

Terry

Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)


July 3, 2004
2:27 PM

Post #935972

one note of correction - Darrin (aka Plantranch) isn't a subscriber here, although he does have a username registered. ;o)
BittysGarden

(Zone 7a)

July 3, 2004
3:16 PM

Post #936005

Bluestone Perennials has them on sale.We ordered 2 of these awhile back.They were small,but healthy.Hope this helps.
http://www.bluestoneperennials.com/cgi-bin/bluestone.cgi/index.html
rutholive
Tonasket, WA
(Zone 5a)

July 3, 2004
11:15 PM

Post #936347

Forest Farm does list Sambucus nigra Black Beauty, 1 gal, 1 to 2' is $15.00 plus shipping. I have 4 or 5 different Sambucus, but don't have that one. Have Sambucus nigra Guincho Purple, Sambucus purpurea, a variegated leaved one and a couple more that i don't remember the name of right now. I love them when they are in bloom and the birds love them when the fruit is ripe. Donna
mikki
Marshfield, MA
(Zone 6b)

July 5, 2004
4:22 PM

Post #938475

I have two of these beautiful shrubs and three other sambucas, all in full sun...four were planted last spring and one this spring and only the new one has bloomed! Does anyone know why the others aren't blooming? I got mine locally at a nursery nearby, I would recommend White Flower Farm if you want to order one as I order from them often...
slaroussels
Georgetown, TX

July 14, 2006
3:50 AM

Post #2503732


I bought three of these from ForestFarm a few months ago, and they have plain old green leaves. Can anyone think of why this might be the case? I wanted them for their deep purple foliage. I've heard of leaves losing their variegation when stressed, could this be something similar? Or perhaps it's the heat?

alyrics
Beachwood, OH

July 14, 2006
3:57 AM

Post #2503758

amazing what a few yrs can do to a price. I bought one in person at Bluestone Perennials last yr in Sept for $4 for quart size pot and they are listed in the on-line catalog for $8.50 delivered next spring.

Terry

Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)


July 14, 2006
10:52 PM

Post #2506561

Mine didn't make it through our drought last fall - I'm bummed.
PrairieMoon2
Burlington, MA
(Zone 6a)

July 15, 2006
12:50 PM

Post #2508168

I am also planning on trying to find one of these. I have a Sutherland's Gold Sambucus that I just installed last spring. It survived our drought last summer with lots of watering and this year came back and was the hit of my shrub border. It grew a lot and the beginning leaves were reddish then turned gold with reddish tips, then produced very pretty flowers. I was sorely disappointed that it didn't produce berries which was the reason I bought it. Not too surprised, since I was figuring it needed a second shrub to produce berries. I bought it locally and the nursery didn't know anything about it. Boy I get pretty frustrated with people selling shrubs that don't know what you need to get berries. If the person selling the shrub doesn't know then who does?

Anyone, have any ideas about where to get accurate dependable information about how to get sambucus to berry, I would appreciate it.

Thanks for the links to the Sambucus nigra. Want to add that one next fall if I can find one too.

Thanks :-)
alyrics
Beachwood, OH

July 15, 2006
5:47 PM

Post #2508982

PrairieMoon2 - I have regular Sambucus and it flowers and berries all by its lonesome. Maybe it doesn't need a partner. Maybe better Google it and see what you can find.
MichaelsNursery
Lexington, SC
(Zone 8a)

July 15, 2006
5:48 PM

Post #2508985

Elderberries require a second cultivar for pollination and to set the best fruit. A good companion and cross-pollinator for Sambucus nigra 'Gerda' (Black Beauty™) is Sambucus nigra 'Purpurea'.

This message was edited Jul 15, 2006 1:50 PM
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

July 15, 2006
6:19 PM

Post #2509078

Can these cross pollinate with Sambucus canadensis? I wonder if the dark leaves would scorch in my area?
PrairieMoon2
Burlington, MA
(Zone 6a)

July 16, 2006
2:38 PM

Post #2511610

Thanks for that info. I wonder would you know what would be a good pollinator for the 'Sutherland's Gold' sambucus? Would the S. nigra pollinate the Sutherland's Gold?

pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

July 16, 2006
10:54 PM

Post #2513164

I've grown Black Beauty since it came out in 2003 (I think). For sale.

They should be quite easy to find in most large nurseries now. Ones that carry Proven Winner shrubs should have it.

For slaroussels, a liitle patience. They seem to be much darker as they develop a good root system. Also too much shade brings out the green.

And have we all seen http://www.colorchoiceplants.com/black_lace.htm ?
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

July 16, 2006
10:56 PM

Post #2513169

Oh, and look at this source

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/627022/
slaroussels
Georgetown, TX

July 17, 2006
3:21 PM

Post #2515287

Thanks for the info, pollyk. Hopefully it will darken as the roots establish. Now I just have to get them through the 105 degree temperatures we're having...
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

July 17, 2006
3:52 PM

Post #2515402

Thanks PollyK for that link! I put my order in. What would be the best planting spot for zone 8b? Would it need partial shade?
pollyk
Hannibal, NY
(Zone 6a)

July 17, 2006
7:05 PM

Post #2516117

You're welcome for the link.

And I don't have a clue about where they should be placed in Z8. Good gosh. I deal with Z3-5 around here. Sorry.

Polly
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

July 17, 2006
7:43 PM

Post #2516265

Hmm, I have seen some sites rate this plant up to zone7, but PlantFiles say's zone10.
MichaelsNursery
Lexington, SC
(Zone 8a)

July 17, 2006
9:23 PM

Post #2516597

In 8b, it needs 1) protection from the hottest afternoon sun (late afternoon) or 2) adequate water during the hottest period of the day.

We are located in 8a and it grows well in full sun with sufficient water.
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

July 17, 2006
10:19 PM

Post #2516804

Thanks, I think I'll plant it on the north side of the house.
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

July 20, 2006
6:29 PM

Post #2527434

Why do some consider S.canadensis as a subspecies of S.nigra? I thought they were separate. What's the difference between the two besides their separate native land?
MichaelsNursery
Lexington, SC
(Zone 8a)

July 20, 2006
10:48 PM

Post #2528429

Taxonomy class... yahhh, fun. There used to be S. mexicana and S. canadensis, which were separate species. However, the ITIS (Integrated Taxonomic Information System) at the National Museum of Natural History, with its partners in the taxonomic world, decided that they were actually subspecies of S. nigra. So now, the actual taxonomy for Sambucus is (intentionally omitting Kingdom to Family):

Genus: Sambucus L. (elderberry)
Species: nigra L. (European black elder, European black elderberry, European elderberry)

3 Subspecies (direct children) of Sambucus nigra are:
Sambucus nigra ssp. canadensis (includes blue elder, common elderberry, elder, elderberry, Mexican elderberry)
Sambucus nigra ssp. cerulea (includes blue elderberry, elderberry)
Sambucus nigra ssp. nigra (includes European black elderberry)

Most people omit the subspecies designation (nigra ssp) so we have S. canadensis, S. nigra and S. cerulea - which is still considered correct.

S. nigra is native to Europe, S. canadensis is native to North America; S. nigra cultivars have larger fruit clusters and superior growth habits. Other than that, there are minor differences and any pair from the species will act as mutual pollenizers.
StarhillForest
Illinois, IL
(Zone 5b)

July 21, 2006
12:11 AM

Post #2528704

Quoting:Mine didn't make it through our drought last fall - I'm bummed.

You're in good company. We're all bums here, for one reason or another! I keep a card file on all the plants that fail here, and it's so thick I need two hands to pick it up.
:-(

Guy S.

Terry

Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)


July 24, 2006
9:35 PM

Post #2543132

Hey Guy...small borders - small stack of failures. Big arboretum - bigger stack, huh?
StarhillForest
Illinois, IL
(Zone 5b)

July 25, 2006
2:39 AM

Post #2544638

Quoting:Hey Guy...small borders - small stack of failures. Big arboretum - bigger stack, huh?

Yeah, sure Terry, go ahead and make me feel even worse!!! I hate losing plants, even if I knew when I planted them it was somewhere between risky and hopeless. Every one is like a kid, raised from seed found in the wild or adopted from some specialty nursery. But it's nice to find the occasional pleasant surprises too, in the form of survivals, and you can't do that if you don't gamble.

Guy S.
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

October 14, 2007
8:42 PM

Post #4082454

Thank you all! I have it now. I think that I got it from Forest Farm, but it is still small, and for here, is watered every day throughout the summer. It has survived, but, it is slow-growing. I have it in my "Dark Side Garden", which has a combination of dark flowers and dark foliage. The foliage does not stay dark thoughout the summer, and with the least provocation of having missed watering for a day will be shown on the leaves.

The best and longest dark color is the Physocarpus Nine-Bark 'Diablo'. It stays dark and grows well. For ground cover, the prettiest is the Oxalis triangularis, which has pretty pale pink flowers as well and lovely dark purple leaves. Also, the 'Black Mondo Grass', Ophiopogon planiscapus 'Nigrescens', is the darkest of all - appearing to be truly black!

Does any one have any suggestions? Though watered well in the summer, part of the day gets bright, hot sun for several hours. Until the Black Bamboo Grow to shade them. There was an unsightly shrub outside the fence which had to be cut back, as it was planned to be a shady garden. Most have adapted. And that bed, with heavy clay soil has been amended for years, is quite nice and friable.
rcn48
Lexington, VA
(Zone 6a)

October 18, 2007
9:39 AM

Post #4096088

evelyn, sorry no suggestions - we were extremely disappointed with 'Black Beauty' - would not hold its "black" foliage through the summer. On the other hand, if you truly want black foliage for your "dark" garden the newer choice for Sambucus, 'Black Lace' has performed admirably, keeping the "black" foliage all summer long and in a full sun location to boot! Although sometimes advertised with pictures of it planted in a container, be forewarned this beauty gets BIG! However, it responds well to a severe pruning to keep it smaller.

Thumbnail by rcn48
Click the image for an enlarged view.

ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

October 18, 2007
1:54 PM

Post #4096602

I think it's something about the humidity--there were some discussion of this last year, and I think it turned out that Black Beauty has trouble holding its blackness in the more humid areas of the country, but it did better on the west coast where our summers aren't humid. I think they also need to get a certain amount of sun in order for the leaves to stay dark, so if it's in too shady of a location it may not stay dark. Unfortunately if you live in a hot summer climate, you may not be able to grow it with enough sun to keep it dark.
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

October 18, 2007
1:58 PM

Post #4096610

Here's a link to a thread from last year--seems heat and humidity are both bad for it keeping its color. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/649584/

wind

wind
Mount Laurel, NJ
(Zone 7a)

October 21, 2007
1:03 PM

Post #4106746

Interesting comments...I have Sambucus Black Beauty ‘Guizho purple’ here in humid south Jersey. I was wondering why it never got dark foliage. The foliage stays pretty green. I was thinking I had a mismarked plant all this time.
threegardeners
North Augusta, ON

October 21, 2007
1:09 PM

Post #4106752

I tried this thing twice...it wasn't happy anywhere I put it...it is beautiful, but on my Do Not Try Again list...sigh...
Soferdig
Kalispell, MT
(Zone 4b)

October 21, 2007
7:15 PM

Post #4107628

I have successfully grown this in Kalispell, MT in a sunny location that the plant has thrived. Our summers are dry and the plant is irrigated. It will grow about 10' in diameter each year. The flowers are long lived and emerge in the late summer and last for a month or more. The foilage here is very dark and the flowers are beautiful. I love this plant. It is in ammended soil with lots of compost and clay. I top dress it each year with compost to feed the tremendous growth. I have alternated the plantings with another Sambucus 'Madonna' that is bright and varigated to give a dramatic effect with the dark and light. This is the flower.

Thumbnail by Soferdig
Click the image for an enlarged view.

rcn48
Lexington, VA
(Zone 6a)

October 21, 2007
10:25 PM

Post #4108199

Total zone envy here, Soferdig :( But then I've seen your pictures of 'Tiger Eyes' and I'm even more envious - still struggling with "TE". I'm giving it one last shot - picked up our second plant of this beauty a few weeks ago and going to try a different location with plans for a dedicated watering regime.
Soferdig
Kalispell, MT
(Zone 4b)

October 22, 2007
7:15 PM

Post #4111279

Well zone envy goes both ways. I must say that NW Montana is a good place to garden. Hopefully we get lots of snow this year. We need our water table to rise. Oh yes I need to ski powder!
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

January 10, 2008
5:00 AM

Post #4382641

Thanks, everyone! It is still small, and this last year I was unable to baby it since I had some operations. I will report in spring, to note its progress. I think I will get 'Black Lace' , but I noticed it isn't in the Forest Farm catalog. I will check online and report if I find it. I also grew 'Sutherland's Gold', in another garden, but not with much success, yet. They listed 'Sambucus nigra Thundercloud' in their fall catalog on the short list. Has anyone grown that one?
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

January 10, 2008
5:06 AM

Post #4382647

There are 6 companies in Plant Scout that list 'Black Lace', check them to see if any of them have it in stock http://davesgarden.com/products/ps/go/56964/ (if you don't find it now, I'd check again in the spring, some companies aren't shipping now and don't have all their plants listed on their websites until spring shipping starts) I don't know where Grizzly Flats is, but I saw them at local nurseries around here last year, so you might try that too.
Soferdig
Kalispell, MT
(Zone 4b)

January 10, 2008
10:52 PM

Post #4384999

I have 'Sutherlands Gold' on my property and I absolutely love it. We are a little on the acidic side 6.8 so you in Calif may have problems in Grizzley Flats. It must be somewhere near Susanville?

Thumbnail by Soferdig
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Rocco
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 7a)

January 11, 2008
6:23 AM

Post #4386344

I purchased the S. nigra from Proven Winners. It was in a small pot and about ten inches tall. I planted it in June of '07. It is now about three feet tall with dark purple leaves. We have had many days of below freezing weather and recently a severe ice storm that destroyed many trees in my city. The sambucus is still out there growing and has not lost any of its leaves. I'm in zone 6B/7. http://www.provenwinners.com/
digger9083
Dahlonega, GA

August 25, 2008
5:13 PM

Post #5465795

my black lace is still in a pot , barley big enough to put in ground and despite daily care , has tips of leaves drying up and crisp. what am i not doing right ? if this keeps up, it won't even make it to winter . sally
Rocco
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 7a)

August 25, 2008
6:32 PM

Post #5466130

The sambucus that I planted on June,07 is now about seven and a half feet tall and about the same width at the base. The plant only produced two very large flowers this year but am hoping that it will put on a big show next year. The flower shape remind me of those produced by a lace cap hydrangea.
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

August 25, 2008
7:45 PM

Post #5466387

I'd check your watering--make sure you're not keeping it too wet but also when you do water make sure you're watering thoroughly so the potting mix gets wet all the way through (potting mix is often very hard to re-wet once it's dried out, so if you just water a little bit most of it is finding channels through the soil and running straight out the bottom rather than wetting the whole pot). And if the container is drying out really fast, you might consider moving the pot to a slightly more shaded area until summer's over.
digger9083
Dahlonega, GA

August 25, 2008
11:12 PM

Post #5467268

thanks ecrane , it has always been puny and had it in too much shade .moving it to get more sun is probably what happened so now i have it in early morn sun and heavy filtered sun after about 10:30 am hopefully you hit it on the head and i'll see some improvement sally
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

August 26, 2008
1:43 AM

Post #5467974

Did you move it suddenly to a lot more sun and then started noticing problems? Plants can sunburn just like people can, you need to increase the amount of sun gradually so that it has a chance to get used to it.
rcn48
Lexington, VA
(Zone 6a)

August 26, 2008
9:59 AM

Post #5468954

Sally, when you do finally plant your Black Lace, make sure you plant it in full sun. I was a little anxious when we first planted ours in full sun, but it's as "black" today as it was in June when in flower! It does require a lot of water when first planted but once it gets established it grows fast and doesn't require as much. Ours was planted in 2006 and like Rocco's was 7' tall and 10' wide the next year!

Thumbnail by rcn48
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Hemophobic
Kannapolis, NC

August 26, 2008
11:00 AM

Post #5469034

I've been lusting for a Sambucus for years now, but everything I read in my gardening books talks about it being invasive. Has anyone had this happen with the Sambucuses [Sambuci?:-)] they've planted? It's so gorgeous and I find that I truly like the dark leaved plants more and more.
digger9083
Dahlonega, GA

August 26, 2008
1:01 PM

Post #5469422

ecrane , duh , wasn't thinking when i posted , that's exactly what i did . put it on a stump in sun that stayed sunny all day . rcn , that's beautiful , hope to grow mine that big . i'm trying to cover up the road in front of house so i wont have to wave everytime my neighbors pass by. same ones , four of them , four or five times a day . that's a lot of extra calories to use up .lol and hemo , if mine get invasive , that's good . i'll just pot those suckers up , and at the price they cost , i'll sell the heck out of them . i don't think they will be a problem in my lifetime . it takes years for the wild ones to invade and make a small grove ,i have one , been there for fifteen years , it was a volunteer , and it hasn't gone anywhere yet . get it , you'll love it . sally
Hemophobic
Kannapolis, NC

August 26, 2008
1:18 PM

Post #5469471

Thanks, Digger. It's on my list for this fall definitely!
valrita

August 26, 2008
5:14 PM

Post #5470383

We planted ours last spring and I remember that I had to water it every other day until it was established. It sure was thirsty. But since it settled in, it's been growing like crazy. It's in full sun with the garage reflecting light and it still stays black. The trellis on the right is 6' tall. We're trying to prune it into a more vertical shape to eventually join together above the little pond that hubby is making. I don't know if it'll work but it's worth a try.

Thumbnail by valrita
Click the image for an enlarged view.

rcn48
Lexington, VA
(Zone 6a)

August 26, 2008
5:38 PM

Post #5470468

velnita, just close your eyes, grab the pruners and go for it! LOL Black Lace responds very quickly after pruning and you can basically prune it as much as you want. However be prepared, it is such a vigorous grower you'll probably have to prune it more than once a season to keep the more vertical shape you desire!
valrita

August 26, 2008
5:49 PM

Post #5470508

LOL...thanks for the encouragement. I pruned them this spring but I'm not sure whether to prune again in the autumn or wait until spring again. They're fairly vertical but they have horizontal stuff at the bottom that will have to go. Any suggestions for me to keep in mind to shape them?
digger9083
Dahlonega, GA

April 10, 2010
1:21 PM

Post #7694804

And if anyone wants one and knows somebody that has one , they root real easy.
Up date on mine , It's Black , and looking beautiful . digger
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

April 10, 2010
1:42 PM

Post #7694836

Wow, I had no idea that when I was looking for this plant years ago, ir would be coming back to me...

I hope everyone has enjoyed their 'Black Lace'. Mine never got very big...we'll see when it breaks out of dormancy what it will ne like this year, if the ground squirrels have not demolished it.
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

April 10, 2010
4:16 PM

Post #7695151

How long have you had yours? Mine didn't do much the first couple years, but in year 3 it really shot up.
digger9083
Dahlonega, GA

April 10, 2010
5:27 PM

Post #7695321

That's me , third year coming up. digger

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