i've had pink beauty/rosamond seeds, about half empty? anyone else had empty seeds?
empty seed report
I got 4 seeds out of 10 of the ones I bought. I hope all of that cross don't turn out like that. Mine aren't ripe, so I can't tell anything yet.
that's what i am wondering, if there is something genetic to it.
Arlene, I got 1 seed out of a pkg of Rosamond x L'Amour. The rest were empty. I don't think it's genetic. I think it's an insect that eats the little seed inside of the corky shell. I peeled them all and under the first layer I found a hole going into the center of the seeds. I want to add that I also had Rosamond x Butterfly with the same problem and also with the holes. One was bought seed and one was given seed from two different people. You can't see the holes from the outside. I checked them all with a magnifying glass.The hole is under the top layer of shell which makes no sense to me. I can't figure how the insect got out.
This message was edited Wednesday, Dec 4th 12:08 AM
I forgot and was just fixing to post, mine were the Rosamond x L'amour. Snow, how can we avoid that? wonder at what stage they might have gotten to them?? would love to protect mine if it's not too late.
so you think it would affect a whole crop, not just certain kinds? i dug up a kyles pink today, peeled it, had a nice bean seed in it. didn't bother the rest.
I 'm no bug expert but it looked like they had to have gotten in before the corky shell was fully developed. There was no sign of a hole on the outside but it was very noticable after I peeled some of the cork off.
So Miss Arlene, do you peel all of your seeds before you plant them?
kell i don't peel. i got the report from people i sent seeds to. do you peel, and did you have empty ones?
I have a package of the Rosamond x L'Amour seeds but I've been waiting on planting them. I hope they aren't all empty. What a shame!! I'm sure Cala's going to be really disappointed. There's a little weevil that eats hollyhock seeds too. The little wormy larvae bore into the seed coat and eat the embryo.
I wonder if refrigerating - or even freezing the seeds right after drying will kill the little critters before they do to much damage. Do you think it might be related to the little worms you had earlier that made the buds fall off? It might be part of the life cycle for what ever they were. I would think the little wormish-maggot thing would pupate into an aldult bug. It would help to figure out what the bug is so it can be controlled.
Arlene - if you have a lot of pods to play with maybe you could investigate a couple of immature pods and the seeds inside. If you cut open a few seeds you might be able to find the critter in action.
Such a shame. I'm sure everyone was looking forward to everyone getting their new crosses started.
well, no one can blame Susie, she was kind enough to share!!! this seems like something no one expected. Freezing them would kill the seeds, right or wrong? I'm sure hoping they didn't get in mine, but I did have those little worms.
The seed bank has been wondering how to handle this, without peeling them all. How do you know if you don't peel?
Monika!! we need you:)
Poppysue, i have peeled some immature seeds just to look, i haven't seen anything. i wonder if i need one of those hand held microscopes. i wonder if they eat the beans before the cork forms.
Since I saw no outside hole with close inspection with a magnifying glass, I think the damage was done at the early stages of seed development.There was no way of telling by just looking at the seeds that they weren't fertile. Sure could use an insect expert here.
I'm no bug expert, but did want to jump in and say that my Rosamond and Whiskers pods all had this problem. Made me sick. I probably didn't have a tenth of the seeds with beans in them. Hope someone can tell us how to avoid this in the future.
Do you think squirting dust on, or into the seed pod, if possible could deter the larvae from hatching??
Mine have only been planted for about 3 wks., but I dug into them and found no indication that any of the seeds were going to sprout. Put them back in the soil, so will wait and see.
Had three more pks. of 10, so I have those soaking in water now, and will plant them in a couple more days and put them in a sealed clear plastic used cake container on a furnace vent. Had good luck germinating brug seeds that way last winter, so it should work this winter too:)
Hope I can get at least one seed to germinate and grow for me. LOL
The Rosamond x L'Amour seeds I got from Cala were fine. Only a couple had empty seed pods.
This message was edited Wednesday, Dec 4th 11:54 AM
just did a check. my first PB seeds are a bust. glad i wrote down who i sent seeds to. the few that had beans look fat and a funny color.
the second pod which grew 2 inches from the 1st seems to have a lot more beans but they look funny too. guess i'll start peeling a few of each pod to see what the difference is.
Thanks Owen, I changed my post. Mine are R X L'A also.
I couldn't stand it. I pealed the Rosamond x L'amour seeds to see. Out of 10 seeds 7 were empty... I got three healthy little beans from them. I checked them out the best I could with my pocket microscope. It looked to me like the worm (or whatever it is) enters where the seeds are attached in the pod... the pointy ends, more or less. On one seed I could see the tunnel pretty clearly. I'm just guessing but it could be one worm that moves from seed to seed tunneling up the central vein of the pod, and into each seed. Then back out through the same hole, and into the next seed. I think if it did this while the seeds were developed but still immature the cork would continue to develop and cover over the entrance hole so we wouldn't be able to see it very well. The wrinkled surface makes it tough to see. What ever it is... it's teeny,weeny. Probably about the size of the fungus gnat maggots. I'd check out the pod itself too. Look for any holes in the skin of the pod, inside the pod for any webbing or cacoons, and at the base of it were the pundicle is attached. If you have a pundicle on it check that for holes too and the cross section of it to see if the worm might tunnel down the length of it into the pod.
I don't know how it could be controled if it's getting to the seeds before they're fully developed. Spraying the plant doesn't seem like it would work if the worm is inside the pod. The best hope it to find out what the little buggers turn into... a fly??, beetle??, weevil?? moth?? or what?
I also had some Versi.Orange x Insig.Gold seeds. Those ones were all untouched and had little beans. One was empty but it looked like the bean just shriveled. No problems with those ones.
I wonder if a systemic would help. I know the brugs I treated with that Bayer Tree and Shrub systemic immediately were bug free. I have so many seedpods.......... I will be so sad.
This message was edited Wednesday, Dec 4th 12:35 PM
I think Kell might have the right idea. If the little bugger gets into the pod, sprays won't work. Maybe systemic will get him before he even gets there. JMHO!!
well that Bayer stuff really worked immediately. I had mealy bug all over that huge sang of mine and I mean all over. Spray never would have gotten them all........... too many leaves on top of leaves. They were gone in 2 days. Of course I used a whole bottle on it...........LOL but it is huge. I just wish it also killed mites. The Bayer rose systemic just seems to contol them not kill them all.
Maybe we should email this thread to Bugguy with a pretty please to help us, Liz?
had to fix my spelling, I did not want you all to think I was a bad speller as well as a pot stirrer........LOL
This message was edited Wednesday, Dec 4th 12:58 PM
I think I've seen these tiny little worms before in Lupin pods! If I remember correctly they have white bodies, brown heads and make a little silk tunnel type home inside a seed pod. They make perfect little holes in seeds and eat the inside untill all that's left is the seed's shell!
good idea Liz!! i bet Monika knows all about this also...........
All I can say is I've seen very tinny white looking wormish...did I say tinny lil buggers crawling around in empty seed coats after digging up some crosses before. I tend to try to use systemics to try to curb this. So far, it seems to work for me unless a seedpod is forming near the end of the systemics usefullness. I sure wish Monika would poke her head in her to give us some pointers.
All I can say is I've seen very tinny white looking wormish...did I say tinny lil buggers crawling around in empty seed coats after digging up some crosses before. I tend to try to use systemics to try to curb this. So far, it seems to work for me unless a seedpod is forming near the end of the systemics usefullness. I sure wish Monika would poke her head in here to give us some pointers.
I just peeled the Rosamond x L'Amour seeds I bought from Calla and 7 out of the 10 were empty. No way of telling they would be empty. Hopefully, everyone's surviving seeds will give some beauties. I know my 3 beans will get TLC.
Out of 20 seeds, I got 3. They have NOT come up yet, so don't even know if I'll have any.
I picked 4 more pods today, peeled about 10% and not one bad seed in the bunch, all had beans. I will send new packs of seeds to all that ordered. No need to email, I know who got them. These may not be dry when you get them, so plant immediately. Sorry that happened. I picked several other crosses today, no bad seeds, so hopefully it was just that first round of pods. I planted about 400 seeds, we'll see how they do.
wow, you sure have been busy! Cala, do you have any idea what to do about these weevil things? i haven't taken the time to check my other seeds, seems like they like the pretty pinks.
We need to find out how to fight this little seed eater. This was a wonderful cross to be ruined by an insect. And it's happened to others also.We just have to figure out what to use and when to use it.
This is how I get rid of bugs in Hardy Hibiscus seeds...put the seeds in a ziplock bag...spray a fast squirt of Bengal or Raid into the bag and close up very quick.... leave the bag close for a day or two.... kills all those little bugs.
I have NOT tried this with Brug seeds.