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I've never been here before but since dave's garden shows up on a lot of google searches, I wanted to take a look around. I am an active and contributing member to gardenweb and would like to hear from anybody who wants to comment on any of the following:
1. What is different about Dave's (vs Gardenweb)
2. What do you use the 'paid membership only' tools for?Since I can't view them, I have no idea what they are or how useful they are.
3. Is there a lot of people who belong to both?
4. Is Dave nicer than Spike? (please don't kill me, but it's a fair question)
5. It doesn't look like copies of my posts and replies will automatically be emailed -- is that an option?
Any other input would be welcome. I don't plan to choose one over the other, I would just like to know what you think the advantages of each one are.
Hi Garlicgodess and welcome to DG. I will give this a try but I am sure you will have many responses.
1. What is different about DG? Well that's kind of hard to explain. I have been on both sites. DG is now my home I am happy here. It's more like a family where you know you opinion counts. You won't get sent to Disney for mentioning other sites. Plus you can contribute to almost all aspects of DG.You get to know the people here and they become like family. I think the main difference is that Dave and staff ask for opinions and let you contribute.
2. What do you use the 'paid membership only' tools for?Since I can't view them, I have no idea what they are or how useful they are.Most of features of DG are free. The main ones you get by subscribing are the forums there are 77 forums that you can exchange ideas and talk with other members on. Also some of the search features are not available to non-subscribers.
3. Is there a lot of people who belong to both? There are members that belong to other sites and that is not a problem that I am aware of.
4. Is Dave nicer than Spike? (please don't kill me, but it's a fair question)
5. It doesn't look like copies of my posts and replies will automatically be emailed -- is that an option?
That is not an option that I am aware of but you can use the watch this thread feature on any post and it will show up when you sign in to DG.
1. What is different about Dave's (vs Gardenweb)
My personal answer is that DG is more of a family than just a group of gardeners. We actually truly care about one another as if we'd known each other for ages. I have been on both sites and prefer Dave's. There are pros and cons to each, though. There is more trading that goes on on GW, but the people on Dave's are just nicer. Dave's is also a "Christian" site so folks have that in common as well.
2. What do you use the 'paid membership only' tools for?Since I can't view them, I have no idea what they are or how useful they are.
The Garden Journal is something that many folks use a lot to keep track of their plants. Also, there is a Trade Tracker which is great so you don't forget who gets what. I've been on for 2 years and don't regret a penny.
3. Is there a lot of people who belong to both?
There are quite a few folks who belong to both, but I'm not sure they have paid subscriptions to both.
4. Is Dave nicer than Spike? (please don't kill me, but it's a fair question)
Spike isn't even worth mentioning compared to Dave. Dave is awesome, kind, thoughtful, considerate and fair. Spike is none of those things (as far as I can tell).
5. It doesn't look like copies of my posts and replies will automatically be emailed -- is that an option?
I don't think this is an option, although you do have a choice of "watching" a thread so that when someone posts to it, you'll be notified first thing when you log onto DG.
I'm glad you asked these questions. They are valid and important questions. I hope I helped in some way.
I know one big diffrence to me is that Dave's forms are more user friendly...I found on Garden Web it was harder to open pictures and they were'nt as good in my opinion so I like Daves better...and for all the reasons everyone else has posted to... :o)
I pondered this question for quite a while before answering, and I wanted to let members have a chance to note the differences in their own words before any sort of "official" response was given. Fortunately, that means there isn't a lot of ground to cover, as a lot of good information has already been provided. Here are a few personal observations from participating on both forums over the past several years:
What is different about Dave's (vs Gardenweb)
1. From a technology standpoint, DG uses different software, which gives users more features and flexibility (editing your own posts, for example.) Dave could certainly explain the technological differences much better than I, but from my viewpoint, DG has continuously evolved over time, while GardenWeb has remained fairly static (the Plants Database and Garden Watchdog have grown by leaps and bounds in the past two years.)
2. From a personality standpoint, Dave's Garden caters to a broader range of users, as illustrated by the wide variety of forums offered (many of which have nothing to do with gardening, but are of interest to gardeners who are members here.) There are some potential pitfalls to that, but by and large our members have been good at remembering our main purpose is to be for and by gardeners.
3. From a philosophical standpoint, Dave is "firm-but-fair". On one hand, DG is more strict on language, off-color jokes, etc. But on the other hand, Dave is more likely to issue a warning (or two) before a member is removed from our midst. Meaning you're not going to wake up one morning wearing mouse ears, courtesy of Dave, just because you mentioned a competing website or some other infraction of an obscure "rule". But you might receive an email message, letting you know a post has been edited or removed, and the reasons for removing it.
4. From a size difference, who knows for sure? We post our membership and subscriber numbers, but I don't think GardenWeb does, which makes it hard to compare. Since some of GardenWeb's forums are open to any/all users, it's probably fair to say GW has more active participants on their forums.
Is there a lot of people who belong to both?
Yes, I believe there are. Do we know ALL of those who belong (or subscribe) to both sites? No, not offhand. But a lot of members maintain a tradelist at one place or the other. GardenWeb's trading forums have always been one of its hallmark features, and they're very active. Ours are smaller and less active.
Is Dave nicer than Spike? (please don't kill me, but it's a fair question)
The fact that you hesitate to ask the question tells you something about Spike. The fact that you CAN openly ask that question here tells you a lot about Dave. See the philosophical differences above :o)
It doesn't look like copies of my posts and replies will automatically be emailed -- is that an option?
Email notification isn't an option. You can choose to "watch" as many threads as you want - not just those you start. Because you can do that, it's easier on your email inbox to avoid receiving emails every time a new post is made, as you can easily find yourself watching hundreds of posts.
Since I am a paid subscriber to both sites I can give my opinion of both sites.
I find that there is less bickering over here. There seems to be a rash of hecklers lately over on GW that are getting my dander up. I can't stand people who just want to take over because they paid their subscriptions. That seems to be what a small group of women are doing over there.
I joined Dave's garden because I was around before it existed and came over here to look around. I wanted to participate more so I sent my subscription amount in.
I do not get sent to Disney anymore, just get an Email about what I did called a "Friendly reminder". I guess I could end up in disney if I were more radical. My last reprimand was for posting the name of this website. I didn't know it was banned and honestly cannot see why the policy of not mentioning a "competitors" site was not allowed. Seems a bit paranoid to me.
Anyway, I believe in a democracy, but also respect the webmaster's decisions on how they want to run things. It is all about doing what the rules are when you are in my house. So even though I might disagree with a policy, I won't push it.
I do miss having emails sent to me. By being on both sites I sometimes forget that a trade is not sent to you and do not mark the watch this thread. Which is my fault no one else's. You just have to realize the difference in software.
I guess I like both sites because I enjoy a common denominator of gardening.
Half a dozen of one or six of another. It all comes out the same. Just the more the merrier.
As a member here and at GW I can safety say there is one main difference between the two.
GW is a corporation formed to make a dollar w/ profit as the driving force.
Rules, both visible and obscure are ruthlessly enforced by the entity known, visibly at least, as Spike.
It seems gardening runs a distant second and friendships are pretty much actively discouraged or at least not encouraged.
ANY deviation from corporate policy is not tolerated.
Here everything seems to be driven by gardening W/ developing friendships a very close if not equal second.
I've dealt w/ Terry on matters in PlantsDatabase and Dave w/ a question on membership and was impressed by the fact that I got a REAL answer.
Not a form letter, not a corporate policy talking head but a real answer.
That shows concern for the members to me.
That adds up to care in my way of thinking.
The thing that impressed me the most, after the wealth of knowledge here, is the depth and duration of the friendships formed on these pages.
Lest you think I'm exaggerating about GW discouraging friendships or core groups in a Forum.
I am a member and Moderator/Co-owner of a Yahoo group
of 30 exiled (banned) or expatriated Balcony and Container Forums members from GW.
If you're familiar w/ the Balconeers over there and wonder where they went...
I'm new to gardening and have used both sites in my quest to learn about the plant world. I chose to become a paid subscriber to DG, because I wanted more access to the Plants Database.
I haven't posted much yet, as I am still familiarizing myself with this site, and reading what others have written and asked. I'm finding it very helpful and more to my liking than GW, but I feel I must be fair and say that I have learned some useful things from their members too. The atmosphere is different, but I've personally never had any bad experieces.
welcome jdee - this is a nice place that is fairly low key. I've been to both (actually still have a membership I've barely used at gardenweb) and guess that is because I like it here better. I find this more user friendly, computer wise, and the people very helpful, understanding, caring and nice. I've made alot of nice friends here since last November when I joined.
DG newbie here. After spending about 4 years on the GW I was kicked off (with no warning) for merely posting a link to Mel Gibsons movie "The Passion" on the rose forums OPEN TOPIC/CONVERSATION forum. All I said was, quote: "coming soon to a theater near you" and posted a link to the movies website and thats all. I sealed my fate by daring to question Spite on what he did to me. His reason for kicking me off... I "ignored his warning" ( I never received a warning) and I went against the no politics/no religion policy which I did not know about relating to the open forum. Ironically the person who started a thread on Witches and Warlocks was not given the boot. Never the less nobody was talking about religion rather quite civilly discussing the pros and cons of the movie. Frankly I didn't care if I was permanently banned as I have a much friendlier msn rose & garden group forum I go to anyway and was spending less and less time on the GW not to mention I was not impressed with Spites double standards and unfair treatment. It is no secret that many people have been kicked off the GW for ridiculous reasons and that Spite is a rude and arrogant person and frequently treats his members like children. Oddly enough he seems to have some fans. I understand that there has to be rules and limitations but the problem with Spite is it goes way beyond that to unwarranted heavy handedness. Since this happened to me I have heard many first hand accounts from those who have had the same thing happen to them so this is not simply a matter of Spite kicking off trolls but it does seem to me he is on some sort of power trip and gets his jollys doing this. I do not say any of this in a vindictive manner. I feel sorry for the man because we all reap what we sow and eventually it will all come back on him.
Sounds to me like DG will be a much friendly place to visit and I look forward to getting to know you better.
I'm sorry to hear of your frustration at GardenWeb. Working under an unspoken set of rules is difficult (I say impossible) and leads to frustration; this thread is evidence of that!
Just FYI: the reason this site is friendly and safe is because I manage it with an even heavier hand that Spike does. The difference is that I always operate (within my ability!) under the terms of the Acceptable Use Policy (linked from the footer of this page).
Actually removing a person from this website is an extremely rare occurance, but it does happen. It's like kicking a person out of your own home and nobody likes it, but it does happen.
Thanks Dave. :)
I think you hit the nail on the head with the "unspoken rules" factor...plus the unfairness and double standards that seem to be a problem over there. I have never dealt with such a rude and arrogant webmaster before.
I really hope that she reads this entire posting. You all have great advice and definetly some horror stories! I wanted to sign on as a paid subscriber to DG, but I don't have a Credit card (I'm young and that would KILL my credit, I am very bad w/$$) anyway,before my boyfriend would send the $$ he told me that I had to check out the other sites. As soon as I logged onto GW I was greeted with a(not bad) but not good attitude. Almost like... I wasn't wanted there. So I left promptly and came here. I ran into a post from long ago here. That had gotten way out of control! No one stopped it, there were warnings given and I felt it was handled in a very democratic way, so I posted my young,peace/love, feelings about it and got an email from dave the next day! I felt that, this was my deciding factor. I paid and never went back. As someone who is new to gardening, I have never met so many useful, committed, and caring people. I tend to have a lot of questions, and they get answered... that's what matters to me! Meredith
There is one rule that Spike abides by. If you ask to be removed from membership but have already paid a month before you were due to pay for a new years membership he will not refund your money at all.
Geez, haint nobody lern'd yet ... that 'home' is where the heart is !?! ...
Yep, Daves Garden pretty much fully qualifies for a place where you can hang your hat a spell ... sit and visit .. wander about .. view some outstanding photos of lawns and yards, and every type of garden imaginable .. along with most every critter that jumps, falls, flies or crawls .. into or near them!
Ya can ask questions and seek opinions .. and ya get a good blend of answers to boot ..
DGer folks 'cyber' arms .. pretty much readily accept anyone ... No matter the wrinkles, stumblin', stutterin', and wee faults ... Sight unseen .. with dents and all !!! .. hee hee ..
I, feel most fortunate .. that I'd not ever checked out any other garden sites before happenin' upon Daves Garden. From all indication .. I've saved myself, from what would've have proven to be .. some excess and wasted mileage .. and, apparently, one
mitey bumpy ride too! .. ha!
Thanks Dave and 'family' ... for allowing me the pleasure of such wonderful company! ((hugs)) - Magpye
Yes, Dave's garden is a much friendlier place than GardenWeb.
I belong to both sites and I spend much less time at GW than I used to. Spike has gotten rid of so many people because of one infraction or another that there isn't really anything going on there any longer. I've noticed that posts will sit with no replies for quite a while before being answered.
Another thing, just try and mention Dave's Garden on GW, you'll get a notice that says something to the effect that Dave's Garden has spammed GW before and if you continue to try and post anything that has anything to do with DG you will be banned.
While both of these sites are "businesses" and their purpose is to make money, I think that Spike is a little too paranoid. He needs to loosen up a bit and not be so high-strung. I think that it would be good for his business. Also, the flashing ads that say you have just won something are very annoying. Those ads really cheapen the site. Just my HO.
Thanks, Dave, for doing such a great job. May you live long and prosper. (a quote from some little TV show that has been running for 30+ years (c:)
One more major difference is that the technology/software used at Dave's Garden is far more advanced (superior) than the software used at GardenWeb. Once something is posted at GardenWeb you cannot edit or make changes to your post (like I am doing right now to this post at Dave's Garden)
This is interesting. This is the forum topic that I stumbled upon that triggered my subscription to this website - Dave's that is.
I visit very few forums. Mostly for recreation and sharing ideas.
The most important element for me within a website forum is "civility" - manners, protocol, etiquette, caring.
It was not hard for me to his the delete button to remove the Garden Web from my favorites list. And that was mostly due to the nature of responses from some users to other users. Not just that, but the fact that it continues.
There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with people, but it is wrong to abuse them, humiliate them or put them down. What's worse, is when administration allows that to happen. I had watched and participated at the gardenweb for about a year sporadically. The remarkable part about the posts, was that the most rude people were allowed to stay on board, and many of the insulted people were the ones banned from the site. Part of the issue stems from users that promote advertising on there. The way they get around self-promotion is by referring one another. Those people risk a financial gain if they get banned, so what they do is network email complaints against users that they enter into a conflict with. It's not obvious from a single post, but if you take time to read a few weeks or months worth of posts, you will discover what is going on.
This does not mean that there were not good ideas there. But the forums take on a hostile and political nature. So if you want landscape ideas embedded into a tapestry of conversation woven with conflict, that may be an option. But if you like a wealth of garden and landscaping information in a polite and neighborly and professional setting, then Dave's is the option you will want. The gardenweb offers basically nothing that can't be revealed in here.
One last thing - you can tell that Dave is a gardening man. A gardening man's name and contributions show up everywhere when his heart cares about his work and interest with plants. That's why this site and forum is a CONTRIBUTION to society, not just a commercial enterprise.
Well! After reading all of the below entries, I am prompted to chime in also.
I have been a member of GW and Daves about the same amount of time--about 2 years. I found GW first, after searching for some kind of Gardening Forum to discuss issues, share information, ask questions, share MY knowledge, etc. I think I used Google a lot here...
I do not remember just how I stumbled onto Daves Gardens??? I checked it out, but was restricted from the Forum discussions until I was a paid member. For just $15 a year--I joined. A small fee! Glad I did!
My first impression of Daves was not all that favorable. Seemed that there were too many people putting up posts to just say, "WOW!", or "Great picture"!, or "Sure is pretty"!, or those kind of comments. Coming from time spent om GW, it seemed that these posts were superfluous and "meaningless". You NEVER see a post on GW that just says "WOW"! They are always more serious and advice-oriented. They seem to have more context. What I have realized over time, as I spend more and more time on Daves, is that this IS truly a "family" and that these people are all warm friends and members of this HUGE family. I, personally, still would not enter a post just to say, "nice picture". I would want to offer some advice or share some first-hand experience I have had with the Forum question at hand.
One reason I like GW is that the posts seem more "serious" and to the point. This is my first year growing 2 Brugs. I rely on certain old-timers on GW for exact advice. My dilema on GW is that I have not yet figured out how to post a picture! That process seemss SO COMPLICATED there!!! SO! I have problems, and I ask questions, BUT--I cannot post a picture for them to see what I am talking about! This is so easy on Daves!!! I appreciate that!
Since I visit very limited Forums on GW, I have not experienced any of the negative things I read about. I was warned once for talking about exchanging seeds on a regular forum and I had my post removed once, because I mentioned a very Garden-oriented Web site we all live and breath by here--locally. I had NO warning! But I went back to see if anyone had responded, and it just wasn't there! I guess I just haven't "rattled any cages" serious enough--yet to be reprimanded! I don't want to either!
Overall, I do not feel that I am on an equal par with all of the people on Daves or GW to be considered one of the "family" yet. Any of my gardening efforts PALE next to all the ones posted and pictured! I am just not all that "into it"! However, if I ever had a question, there were a lot of encouraging answers in a day or two. That feels good!
On the positive side (on Daves), I love the diversity of the Forums. I have spent a lot of time on the Recipe forum (and have Dave's Cookbook in my favorites). And even if I have not ever contributed, I think having the "Parking Lot" and "Jokes and Chat" and "Dirt Cheap", AND Daves, makes Daves a lot more fun to visit.
How much time do I spend on either nowadays? HMMMM! I think Daves is winning!!! Love all the pictures you guys post! Sometimes, late at night, I unwind just by being on one of these Garden Forums before I go to bed. I think Daves puts me to sleep better--this is NOT a negative! It is just that I get so carried away on certain posts that I want to look at them forever--see all 10 pages!
I feel that I have not yet skimmed the surface of all Daves has to offer. Maybe that is why I have such a limited "experience" on this Web Site. Getting there, though! I am begining to recognize some names that I rely on for good advice or great recipes! I DO have "fuzzy feelings" about all the people on Daves. GEEZ! They are from Canada and Europe, and Australia, and S. America! What an experience! World-wide advice at my fingertips!
YES! I renewed, and will continue to do so! Gitagal
Your image must be on the internet to post at GW, even if you need to put it on webshots or ofoto.
EDITS --- I guess part of my message dissappeared, so I won't try to reinsert that disappearing code, but the link should take you to a page with it anyway. You will look at the part to add an image and under the #2 part it shows "linking" and "display". In the "display" part, it shows you insert a file name and location after
Well I joined GW about early summer of 2003. Basically the forums I frequented were Cactuses and Tropicals. Over time I began to post a fair amount but not really that frequent. I also started to read the 'Spike' comments. I didn't think too much about them at the time. I mostly like to post pics of my garden and see and read about other plants that I'm not familiar with. Anyway in the Tropicals forum one day, I innocently posted about not seeing a regular poster who was very knowledgeable. A few hours later I checked the post and someone had mentioned that the post would probably be pulled. The next day it was gone and I received an e-mail from this Spike person to "give it a rest". That didn't settle very well with me, and I stopped posting for awhile. Eventually over time I began to post again. Then on one of the forums someone wanted to vent. The poster was disappointed in not receiving her end of a seed exchange. She phrased it very well and didn't name names. She just said she wanted to vent. I can understand this, because sometimes I've felt this way and just needed a "pat on the back", so to speak. Anyway, I responded and told her that most people aren't that way and to just consider it a lesson learned with that person. The post was gone the next day. For me that was it. I sent this Spike person an e-mail and said he didn't know how to run a website and said I was "out of here." He responded that indeed, he DID know how to run a website and my account was promptly deleted. Good for me!
I also realize now why he has hundreds and hundreds of obscure forums. When you enter the forum, you get a different AD banner at the top. This is where he truly makes his money and I feel that fundamentally he is not a gardener but a Internet geek whiz kid who came up with a great idea on how to make lots of money but has zero people skills.
Thanks for the Hyperlink to the picture posting. I coppied it out and will see if I can understand all the "technicalities". My brain "shuts down" if i cannot understand something and I lose patience to override that. Too old! Too impatient for "instant results"...Just the child in me!
One thing I forgot to mention in my comparison between GW and Daves is how much I appreciate all the links and Hyperlinks the members on Daves post to expand the knowlege on any given topic! THANK YOU ALL!!! My Gardening Section in "My Favorites" is now about 3 pages as a result.
You all hit it on a nutshell, I don't need to make any comments now, Spike will let people belittle, and bash.
Dave will not. If you complain about somethng else that is bashing and it doesn't need to be you, will I was eliminated. I tried to protect the others and his forum. Well I was the one that got punished. It's just not a safe place to be if you have any self respect.
We have good people here, It works like a team and I think the credit goes to Dave.
I joined GW a few weeks back. I was blocked from posting because I had asked my questions in the wrong places and was told that I "could not comprehend the instructions". LOL! I politely mentioned that I can comprehend many languages but he had such a small grasp on the vernacular that his "gentle reminders" were impossible to sift through and could I help him to clarify? He responded to my offer to help with another insult and I promptly paid to join here. Smartest move I ever made!
I am a relatively new member of both GW and DG. In fact I am a very new DG subscriber although I've used some of the other features for a couple of months. As such I have not been around either site long enough to become deeply entrenched in the culture, politics, or cliques of either site. So, I'll add some comparisons of the two sites mostly from a newbie perspective. My non-scientific (and in a couple of cases possibly ignorant) ratings run from 1 (yuck or non-existing) to 5 (wow, how cool is that!)
1. Site organization and ease of navigation: GW: 1; DG: 4.
I am constantly getting lost at GW. Different forums work differently, some archive, some don't, some have multiple pages, other threads disappear as soon as they scroll off the page. At GW there is no way to tell if a thread has been updated unless I am the originator or if I happen to remember the number of posts or time of last posting for each thread (which ain't gonna happen!). Being very new at DG, I'm still finding my way around, but I've found it easier to do that at DG after just a couple of days than I have after a couple of months at GW. In fact that is the only reason I gave DG a 4 instead of a 5 because I am still too new to be completely proficient at navigating around DG, but I sure like what I have seen so far. I also just love that you can watch threads and indicate favorite forums and see whether there are updates just by going to the home page. I find this WAY better than scrolling through a bunch of emails intersperced with my business emails and of course all the viagra spams I get.
2. Features and information: GW: 2; DG: 5.
The plants database and the journal alone qualify for a 5. GW, in terms of features is a 1, but I gave it a 2 overall because there are some very knowledgable users there that have given me lots of great info.
3. Customer service: GW: 1 DG: 5.
At GW I get the sense that members are considered to be PITAs by the site owners/management. By contrast, I sent an email to DG though their "contact us" link yesterday at what would have been considered at or after close of business by most. I had a personal (not autogenerated email) response from Terry within minutes! She similarly followed up with replies to a couple of subsequent clarifications and did so again early this morning (Terry, do you ever sleep? LOL). I have to wonder if their really is a Spike or if that is just the bad cop personna bot at GW.
4. Photo hosting and My Info Page: GW: 1; DG: 5.
At GW you have to have your own web host to link photos from. At DG it is super easy to upload them and host right on DG server (wow how cool is that!). This is a biggy for me since my private web host is really a loan from a friend and I don't want to take advantage of his generosity by taking up too much of his space. I love the My Info page at DG. Let's me keep links to lots of things in one place without having to bookmark them separately and I really enjoy browsing the info pages of other members.
5. Forums and Trading: GW :4, DG: 4.
I give both equal ratings here but for completely different reasons.
The only forum I really go to at GW is the Texas Gardening Forum. I really like that there is a forum specifically for my area with lots of gardeners knowledgable in that specific area. There are many times when I search the web for some gardening info and I may find a lot...and it may be all wrong...for Texas. That particular forum at GW also organizes a lot of local plant swaps where you trade seeds, cuttings, potted and bare root plants, etc. in person. They are great gardening and social events and I enjoy them. DG on the other had has much more extensive features and a lot of activity in trading but from what i have seen so far, it seems to be mostly limited to mailing seeds. In just my short time as a DG subscriber, I have seen many forums that interest me (both gardening and non-gardening related) while at GW, none of them appealed to me other than the Texas forum. This is pretty much the one thing that will keep me going back to GW as well as here. A lot of times I just gotta have that Texas specific input and feedback and information.
6. Culture and rules: GW 2; DG 3.
Ok, I know I said at the top of this now more lengthy than originally intended post that I wasn't going to get into culture issues, but I've changed my mind...at least a little. I get the sense that at GW rules are made up on the fly as after the fact CYA for banning someone. I also find that the rules are selectively applied. There seem to be some people that can break any of the rules with abandon and others that are history for some obscure or trumped up infraction. I've also noticed a vague sense of fear from some of the old timers there who seem to get unduly nervous when posts don't meet a certain cookie cutter sense of style or expression. In fact I've been emailed by numerous members there (but only outside the GW email system) either warning me or patting me on the back for certain posts that apparently pushed some invisible (at least to me) envelope. Don't need the drama and don't like the having to go behind the back environment. Still there are a lot of nice folks there (at least in the Texas forum who are the only ones I know) and they are very knowlegable (expecially about gardening in Texas). My 3 rating for DG is really just a middle of the road cop out rating since I don't yet really have any first hand experience with the culture or members here.
OMG, I am so excited to see this thread!! I don't know if I'm more excited that I wasn't the only one banned by Spike, or if I'm so excited because I think I've found my "spot"! :))
What I found immediately that I loved about Dave's, is that Dave is a real person! He posts, has a profile and a picture. That told me that he knew what we were doing here and wasn't some invisible ruler in the Emerald City of Oz. A "prayer" forum? I knew it was different.
I WAS a non-paying user of GW, but am a subscribing member here now. I am a stay-at-home mom (rarely stays at home tho) that just wants to talk gardening. Online is the only way I have had to meet people in the last few years. I got on the list at GW and started getting "reminders" because my SUBJECT line wasn't descriptive enough! I thought "Just a couple of questions" was pretty self explanatory compared to "Wow" on another forum! My whole thread, including replies (those must have been really stupid people that replied) was deleted. During the hurricanes there were a bunch of posts talking about the members in FL. I got lost in all of it and a bit later asked about 2 people that had already been discussed. I said I couldn't keep track and was wondering how they faired, and Spike told me to send personal emails, and deleted it. A few of us local girls formed our own "club" (sort of) and because I thought it was rude and annoying to keep mentioning it on a big forum, I created a small Yahoo board for just us to discuss times to meet etc. Well yeah, you guessed it...Disney for me too. I agree totally, he will reap what he sows.
I was recruited over here, and will be recruiting friends that I've made from GW, if they haven't already beat me! Thanks for the stories, I don't feel so personally abused now.
p.s. Pville...I do miss the people on the Texas forum on GW, but was very glad to see you over here. I've received some very nice emails from people who are trying to keep in touch. I'll tell them about my new home.
I'm really glad to hear that. I had intended when I subcribed at DG to still participate at least in the Texas forum at GW but as it has turned out I really have found every thing I need here and so I haven't been back. I feel badly about that only from the standpoint of some of the folks that we use to chat with there. But everytime I've thought about stopping in at GW, I think whatever time I spend reading and posting there is that much less time I have to read and post here, get my journal up to speed, do my research in the PDB, etc. so I've ended up never going back. Having you and some of the other folks I miss from there join us here is just the last lick of icing on the cake to make it perfect.
I just have to ask: What does it mean "getting sent to Disney?". My curiosity is getting the better of me since I have heard this term a few times over the last year or so.
I've heard of getting banished, and know what that means that you can't go back, but have no idea of what it means to get sent to Disney.
Well, for me here was the difference: when I originally tried to sign up on GW it didn't connect and when I politely inquired to GW, I received a scarcastic message back--something about "the GW webmaster not having time to deal with a server run by a megalomaniac (MSN.com)" ???! What was that about?!
In contrast, when I signed up on DG I was warmly welcomed and given tips on how to navigate and post. Lot's of sincere interest. Lot's of enthusiasm.
The GW forums may seem to have more facts and content, but Dave's Garden is truly a community of learners helping each other. I love it. Dave and the staff are great. The members are wonderful. Thanks again. t.
You already have a ton of responses, but I am going to use this as my one and only opportunity to vent. I was a regular poster at GW for years and never did anything out of line, had a lot of internet friends there etc. One day I tried posting and found myself redirected to disney.com.
I had no idea what the trouble was so I spent 2 days troubleshooting on my end thinking I had some trojan software/web hijacker or something along those lines.
Finally I emailed Spike asking if he had any idea what the problem was since it was only posting at GW that did this.
He emailed me back with a one line insult that accused me of an improper post.
I emailed him back being very concillatory, but pointing out I didn't see how my post was offensive at all. I apologized anyway and vowed to avoid similar posts. I also mentioned that a simple email explaining my alledged infraction would have sufficed and that the redirect to disney was unnecessary and caused me a bit of grief. His response was that I was stupid to think he cared about the grief I had "brought upon myself". He then told me to go find a site more suited to my mentality.
So, is Dave nicer than Spike?
Well, in fairness I don't know anything about Dave as I just registered to see and post to the forums a couple days ago, but I don't see how he couldn't be.
The way Spike treated me was beyond rude and to this day I don't understand what it was that I did to set him off. Seeing others post here about his behavior is comforting to me as I can see I am not the only one to be the target of his venom.
DaveA...I'm sorry that happened to you too. Doesn't it feel great to tell someone how awful Spike is!?! He was always rude when he replied to any email I sent him. I've seen many posts over there since I left about how people were getting aggrevated that others were being banned etc etc. He'll dig his own hole. My first day here I saw a post by a "Dave" and wondered if it was THE Dave. When I saw the profile and the picture of him on a trike, I knew he was NOT like Spikei. Welcome aboard!
--- DaveA...I'm sorry that happened to you too. Doesn't it feel great to tell someone how awful Spike is!?! ---
It sure does. During my stay at GW I didn't realize how many people Spike had abused as I had no contact with him. After getting the boot I felt really wronged and have harbored a certain amount of anger toward him. At the same time I didn't know if I had somehow done something wrong or what the root cause of the banning was. I generally regard people as being decent and reasonable so when someone is neither decent nor reasonable I have a tendency to wonder if I did something wrong.
Coming here and reading this thread has been like therapy for me as it let's me know there was nothing wrong with me and I am not alone.
Now I am no longer angry at all, I just feel bad for Spike. For a person to have mistreated so many over a long period of time reveals a personality that is not healthy.
Wow! I feel so grateful that as a newbie gardener I found DG before GW. I felt so welcomed and encouraged by Carla. Not only am I a newbie gardener, but I'm fairly limited in my computer skills. I have a lot to learn if I'm going to make good use of this site. I just want to give my thanks and appreciation to Dave and everyone else in advance for all of the help I'll be asking for. Hopefully you'll bear with me if I make any faux pas.
I have been a member of both for several years, I use GW for trading mainly, but feel like I reside at DG. I don't post alot, so haven't gotten into trouble there, but had picked up on some things. After what I've been reading here, I don't think I will be renewing my membership at GW for obvious reasons. As a Master Gardener I frequently speak with people on the joys of online gardening. I ususally point out casual differences in the sites, but ALWAYS tell them DG has a "family" feeling! It's good to be a small part of this group! Legit
The only bad thing I have seen lately is that some people from Gardenweb who were trouble makers are now over here.
Hope they can contain all the cattiness that they displayed over there and leave Dave's gardeners to freely express themselves. They know who they are and if they are true to form, so will everyone else before long.
This thread exists because it serves several legitimate purposes:
1) It allows users to compare/contrast two major gardening websites. (Not a scientific, statistically-valid poll, but anecdotal information about the pros and cons of each site.)
2) It allows users to gain an insight into the philosophy of Dave's Garden and the administrators here.
3) It allows some users a cathartic release to vent a little, and to discover that their experience elsewhere wasn't unique or necessarily their fault.
Those are good reason to allow this thread to stay up; however, I've "scrubbed" some of the more recent posts. I hope everyone whose posts were edited or deleted will understand that it was done in order to allow the thread to remain intact and on-topic.
I think Terry's 'friendly reminder' post gives yet another difference between GW and Dave's.
If you can read this post
1) You aren't in Disney
(so you weren't banned for posting on the thread)
2) The thread wasn't deleted.
There is also of course the fact that Terry took time out of a busy schedule to read the thread, clean it up AND comment personally.
The amazing thing to me is this personal touch extends to all facets here and at PF.
You got a question for the administration?
It gets answered, (sometimes so promptly it's scary).
You Thank them they say You're Welcome.
Now what kind of way is that to run a business? lol
Thanks for the reminder and the work on this thread, Terry. The line between cathartic venting and violation of our own acceptable use policy (re. material that's offensive, hateful, vulgar, etc.) can get blurry sometimes. Especially when emotions are running high. Thanks again.
Thank you Terry. One person's interpretation of something posted is always different than another's and it can be totally different from how it was meant to sound. I appreciate not being scolded or having my posts deleted because my sense of humor is different or misunderstood by someone. I could have unjustly ended up at Disney in another place! lol
I don't think I even remember my password over there. I stopped going over there after I discovered DG. It's not because I was treated rudely. I stayed in the New To Gardening forum, and the people in there seemed to be nice, and quite helpful. The reason I came over here is becuase I was doing a google search to learn about a certain plant, and I discovered the PlantFiles (PDB back then). After looking up several plants, I was told I had reached my limit. so I looked around the site, and became a member,,, and the welcoming atmoshere has kept me.
Again, this is not to say anything bad about the other place, becuase I never experienced the bad. I just feel at home here.
The first post I wanted was to post this. Last year, I was sent to disneyland. I was a member of the Hot Pepper Forum on GW. A friend had been Disneyed and we questioned Spite on this. I was summarily booted, no explaination. I joined some friends at the MSN Hot Pepper Forum and have been there since.
I have always noticed the fantastic content of Dave's Garden but never visited because it required subscription for involvement in what I wanted to be involved in.
Spite created an environment of fear. I am not bitter, this is just a cold, hard fact. I have little use for that kind of environment, so I left, and rarely return.
I look forward to good times and good lessons here.
I'm not sure if any of you have heard this yet or not, but Spike sold GardenWeb (the corporation) to iVillage.
He is still the "moderator" of the site, but you can now post links with "Dave's Garden" in the title and the message is not rejected with a threat saying that Dave's Garden has spammed GardenWeb and you will be banned if you continue to try and post the message.
Go to the GardenWeb main page and you will see the major re-design and how it has changed. There have been some posts (I think in the Hosta forum) that Spike has responded to and sort of explained what's happened.
It looks like GardenWeb will be a "kinder, gentler", place now.
There was no reason it shouldn't have been a kind and gentle place. That was the hype they spread when they took your money in the first place.
Maybe Ivillage can delete Spike's posts.LOL
He did what he did in the past and is still Spike, so what would be the reason to go over there...been there done that, and he can post all he wants now that he secretly sold the place behind everyone's back and now is accepted into the fold as one of his own. LOL
No reason to get so upset. If you don't want to visit GW, then don't. I wasn't implying that anyone should go there in the first place. I just wanted to let people know that Spike no longer owns GW.
As far as "secretly selling the place behind everyone's back", Spike doesn't need anyone's permission to sell HIS web site. Remember, that all places on the web, for the most part, are there to make money - even Dave's Garden - it's how Dave makes his living. Lucky for us, it also provides a place for us to interact with other gardeners.
Spike is now an employee of iVillage and I would guess that the tone at GW will be somewhat different than it has been in the past...maybe. Only time will tell...
Well it's about time Chance! I've been a member since 08/03 but only yesterday became a subscriber.
I was the "Disneyed" member that caused the problems at The Hot Pepper Forum at GW. I had received a warning that I was manipulating threads which was not allowed according to Spite's rule book. How was I manipulating threads you might ask? When a really good or informative thread was going to drop off page ten I would "BUMP!" it up to page one by posting to it. Every long time forum member or moderator has seen the same question asked over and over and I was saving threads that would answer the most frequently asked like "Please help me with aphids!" or "Which is the hottest pepper?". Seemed like a good thing to me...
As I wrote, I received a warning in Aug. & got "Disneyed" in Nov, 2003.. I did not know that this was Spite's way of punishing members and thought something was wrong with my browser. When another member allowed me use of his profile & password (breaking another rule) so I could ask what was happening, he was promptly "Disneyed" with no warning. It spiraled out of control from there as many members questioned him about it and all were "Disneyed" without warning or given a reason and any thread that questioned his policy was pulled & that member was "Disneyed". Only one long time member received a brief note for the whole affair and it basically said I thought I could break the rules without punishment and that the GW would prosper without all the members he banished. Another long time member wrote me that he had gutted the Balcony Forum the same way because someone was "Disneyed" and the members that questioned him were given the same trip. Spite should be a travel agent for Disneyland or at least get a commission for all the people he sends there.
All this could have been prevented if Spite had asked me what I was doing or took the time to find out. You know why? There's an archive URL!
Did I know about it then? No.. But I do now & can access it without being a member. Ironic?
Yours in heat,
Oh, and Dave, you have my permission to edit/delete this post so as not to cause you or your site problems. Everything I wrote is the truth and like Allen find the environment of fear Spite created there as intolerable and wanted others to know about it. I just changed the name to protect the innocent (;>)))...
This horse has probably been beated to death but the main differences in my opinion are:
1. open to public vs subscription
it attracts different people with different views. gardenweb is bound to have a boarder range of people visiting. Personally, my trading experiences with DG's members has been A LOT better than gardenweb traders. Latter has often left me without completing their part of the trade.
I don't know Dave, but I have certainly gotton to know Spike. I am sick of tired being accused of launching malicious software attacks against their services (I can hardly turn my computer on.. how am I supposed to lauch anything technical at their site ??). My IP address gets banned from time to time, and when you request Spike to make updates (hortiplex etc) I get nasty emails back complaining about my posts from 48 months ago whereas on DG the stuff gets updated and they are actually very nice about it, too.
3. much better interaction by small business with DG than Gardenweb.
Big business would do very well at Gardenweb if they can/will afford their advertisement prices. Small business persons have no earthly chance, but can get very good entry to a great community at DG.
I think the main summary should be:
- the personality issue the determining factor. The DG approach is so much more friendly and nice. The gardenweb attitude is one of mistrust, extreme moodswings, and generally an extremely difficult place to be if you are "singled out" due to whatever system issues they happen to have that week.
Take one example: gardenweb used (USED) to have the best hosta forum by far. Today most of the people there have moved on to another forum and I believe from the posts that the main reason was similar issues as I have stated above (banned IP addresses, eradic moods, etc)
I wonder how many people have never found either site. They are sure missing out on a lot of information, aren't they.
The only way I found out about GW years ago was that a friend on a list serv gave me the URL. Otherwise, I may still have been in the dark about it. Then I noticed that some people were disappearing and found them at Daves, living happily ever after. LOL
To be fair, Gardenweb was fun while it lasted, but people grow up and then they need something of substance.
If you are being accused of launching malicious attacks against GardenWeb, you might have a virus or some other "nasty" running on your computer without your knowledge. You could very-well be attacking GW and not even know it.
I would purchase some spy ware software and scan your computer to see if you have any programs loaded on your computer that shouldn't be running on to your computer.
The main thing I dislike about Garden Web are all of the *&%#!%?^&` blinkin' ads. It gives me a headache just trying to concentrate! I HATE that stuff! I started keeping pieces of paper taped to the main pop up places on GW, and then I came here a couple of times, and haven't been back there since.
In regards to ads. Here are a couple pertinent quotes from iVillages fourth quarter earnings results conference call. Both of these quotes are from Doug McCormick, Chairman and CEO of iVillage:
Quoting:"We reported record net income for both the fourth quarter and the full year due to solid revenue growth in both periods." ... "During the fourth quarter alone, we added over 135 new advertisers or brands. Some examples include King Features, Pepsi, NBC, and new Procter & Gamble products, as well as Target. With our new site being even more advertiser friendly, we look to continued growth in this area."...
It sounds like the ads are profitable for iVillage, even if they're aggravating for users of their websites. And from the sound of things, they're looking at ways to increase their advertising revenue (hopefully this isn't taken out of context), based on this quote from Mr. McCormick:
Quoting:"I would like a 20% increase in page views."
I was sent to Disney and still don't know why.
I think it could have been because I tried to stop a verbal war, that had flared up. This was because Spike asked me to report if I saw it happening. Beats me. I am happy here where I can talk freely. l was even allowed to disagree with Terry and she didn't kick me off. I was allowed an opinion. I was allowed my 1st amendent rights of free speech. I love Dave and Terry for their good work. I will continue to help all of those that I can. They have been there for me. Crasulady2
I remember when "Yahoo Groups" was user friendly. They sold out, and now many, many people have left. I forsee the same thing happening with GW. I had good trades there and no negative experiences with that, but aside from what depends on other individuals, I find no redeeming value at the place.
Just found this thread after subscribing to DG for a few months. Don't know if there's anything new to say on the topic. I found the 'rules' on GW wholly arbitrary. Most astonishingly, early one a.m. I was reading posts on GW and found a post from Spikie himself, since deleted, in which he lashed out at the membership, saying that he had sold GW because he was tired of the "liars, spammers, and cheats" he had to deal with. I have yet to see Dave's Garden administrators lash out at their membership like that. In general, DG policies are much more transparent and predictable. The atmosphere here is devoid of the outright hatred that ruins so many otherwise interesting threads on GW. And the info that GW is now being widely publicized as a good place to save money in plant trades goes a long way toward explaining why several of us were ripped off this spring in a plant trade with a new GW poster (who has since vanished). The traders' feedback system here on DG is effective. Spikie has refused all requests from members to install something similar on GW.
I will only say that what they say about the other web being much more "closed" to newcomers is true...they want what you got but don't want your opinions or you is true.; Just my opinion and I realize everyone's got one...people here are much more "inclusive" and not exclusive.
These are two themes that are consistent through out DG. Any website, company, organization can install the best whizzily, super , whatchamacallit doodad - and if the place lacks dignity and respect, then it is place one only visits, but few stays.
Everyone here has treated me with those two words, and it makes me feel good. So, I'm glad I don't know what being sent to Disney means, and I'll bet I never find out.
I made the switch, I found it very hard to fit in over there it's strange. I've been here for less than a week and had many people welcome me to DG. Very nice people here and actually I haven't been back to GW since I joined here. This place is very nice and puts a big smile on my face. In the end that's what counts!!!
I occassionally go back from time to time (like once a season) to visit some friends that aren't over here, but I tell you it is getting harder for me to go there to say Hi. The pop-ups and advertising all over the place over there and now there's this text, hyperlink thingy for certain words. You can tell because they are underlined and in a different color and when you roll your cursor over them, a pop-up window with an ad to a sponsor comes up.
I can't take it for long before I have to get out of there. I wish there was some kind of complimentary trial Dave's Garden Referral program. I want to recruit all my friends here, so I don't have to go back!
In my opinion, the difference between Dave's & GardenWeb is not only one of courtesy & respect, but just plain old friendliness. Over at GardenWeb, "clique" is the name of the game. If you don't belong to one, you are meant to feel like a second-rate citizen right off the bat. That got old REAL fast, & I don't visit there anymore.
Quoting: In my opinion, the difference between Dave's & GardenWeb is not only one of courtesy & respect, but just plain old friendliness. Over at GardenWeb, "clique" is the name of the game. If you don't belong to one, you are meant to feel like a second-rate citizen right off the bat. That got old REAL fast, & I don't visit there anymore.
Whoa...did I learn this fast enough.
After hearing the site had a new ownership, I reregistered and then started posting what I thought were innocuous comments/questions/suggestions.
Some folks on there can get downright testy. After thinking about it, I don't think that I've ever been responded to that way on Dave's Garden.
I just found this thread. Basically, my interpretation is the members here seem to try their best to treat each other the way they wish to be treated themselves.
Next comment. I am a parent. Garden Web is NOT family friendly. Don't fool yourself. There are individuals over there who are out of control and I read some very suggestive sexual content as well as all out personal attacks going on from time to time. Why is there any need to have that kind of garbage in a gardening forum? Seems to me there surely must be enough sex.com, letsallgetnasty&bash&humiliateeachother.com and just about any .com out there one could imagine so why all of that on their gardening site? I will never allow my kids to join there even if it is free. I have a young internet friend who was over there who was experiencing what I deemed to be unhealthy interactions so I signed up over there at Garden Web a few months ago to see what was going on. I lurked and read, read and lurked, and lurked and read some more. I got the jest of what goes on over there. I contacted the administration here by us and Baa and Dave helped me buy a gift subscription for this teenager.
Comment #3. I tried to contact the Garden Web Administration to voice my concern over some of the inappropriate posts and never received a response. I figured I'd call and give them my comments and there is no means by which to contact anyone over there by phone. I don't know who this Spike is or if the person really exists and isn't just some fictitious screen name or something because I felt I had valid concerns and there was no one to voice them to. How do you run a business with no contact information or is that only for people who subscribe?
Another comment. I don't think there is a way to correct your spelling over there. I couldn't figure out how to add on to a post when I forgot to add something that was sort of important that I forgot. Actually, I don't think you can edit anything over there. Maybe you can if you are a paid member? Maybe that is one of the benefits they have is that you can make corrections to your posts if you pay a fee?
Last comment. I don't know how anyone can put up with those banners and those non stop ads and links anyway. Ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. My eyeballs were inundated by all the trash popping up on top and in sidebars that it was difficult to focus on trying to read anything anyway. Incredibly distracting. Why do people put up with that sensory bombardment?
I think I'll stay put here at DG. Besides which, I've made a few friends now.
I need to add, that I feel safe and protected here. Dave and Terry do not allow rude people here. I want to thank Terry, she has been there for all of you as well, Dave you don't do it all alone, Terry has been terrific. Where do I send my membership dues. I need an addresss, or I'll just send it on to you, Thank you Terry, and Dave for being there for all of us.
ok... I didn't read everything, and I don't know about GW... but, I have two questions:
1) What's "being sent to Disney"... ??? :) Isn't that supposed to be a happy place??? :)
2) Dave's is a "christian" site?!? Is this a real "rule"? If I'm not christian are ya'll gonna kick me out?! I'm pretty sure we have international members who are not christian, and they're accepted with open arms... I could go on... but I digress :) I'm not necessarily un-christian, just trying to figure this out. I'll just leave my religious beliefs a mystery ;)...
I'm seriously just looking for info... I didn't even realize till a couple years ago that Goodwill, Inc.'s mission statement is very religiously based. So, when things like this come up, I'm not surprised at my own oblivion! haha :)
(1) Being 'sent to Disney' is what happened over at GW when a poster did or said something that the administrator didn't like--- he linked you with the Disneyland (the actual amusement park) website...it was a weird response, and it happened to me for nothing at all...I suppose since i Village took over they don't do it anymore, but I am not sure of that.
(2) It seems that somewhere in the mission statement for Dave's Garden it represents that DG is an organization that operates with Christian values and so a number of posters who are Christian feel at home on this site and on certain forums (for instance the Prayer forum) posters feel comfortable in expressing their religious beliefs, (particularly evangelical Christians, but other religious and philosophical outlooks, Christian and not, are present, too. )
More to the point, though, the administrators take special care, I believe, to treat members with respect, dignity, and sensitivity to human concerns, and that makes a difference in the site's daily operations.
It's a very nice atmosphere to be a part of, whether or not one ascribes to the particular religious outlook, and I hope you like it here.
I hope I got this right--so Terry, please correct me if not.
I think "Christian" is just another way of saying "Friendly, accepting, respecting, etc."
Some Christians are Christ-like and some aren't.Maybe "Christian" is more a way of describing a certain way of acting rather than a religion of choice.
Being sent to Disneyland is a highjack to a website because you are not following a rule set about and known only by the webmaster.
This is more a democratic website than the other. I think Terry explained in a post already about what is meant by "Christian"
Yes, LOL, I was bounced from GW and didn't even realize what I'd done wrong until I stumbled upon some posts over here! Strange place, GW, unless they've changed things over there since the ownership changed.
I seldom go there now--only to read the Ohio Valley Forum news, and lately that has been slim. I wish those O.V. posters would come over here to DG so we had enough chatty posters for our own Ohio Valley Forum...That is one difference between GW and DG.,,.
Yes, the 'golden rule' is a good general description of how people try to act here.
The Hurricane forums are so impressive. I find the communication and dedication on those threads so unbelievable and so caring. DG is definitely a place of friendship and support for those in need. Which, of course is another principle of Christianity, and DG members are given an opportunity to demonstrate it on DG...
Have a good gardening day...isn't the weather beautiful?! t.
Thanks for the replies, guys... that's what I figured was meant by that statement. I wasn't trying to ruffle anybody's feathers. But I always seem to get a little nervouse when it comes to that particular label simply because I completely agree with Windy that some christians are not very Christ-like... and I don't want to be misconstrued as one of those types. :)
I'm satisfied :) Thanks for the clarification everyone :)
P.S. You're right, I didn't take the time to read ALL the numerous replies to this thread... I was very tired when I posted last night :)
I just found this thread - since Dave announced changes - I started snooping around to see what was new. I am a member of both sites - but have made DG my home. I spent time on the wintersowing forum there, but never encountered the 'family' connection like I do here.
My Love of Dave's Garden List
1. Acts of random charity
2. Knowledge of members
3. Plant files
4. Website software
5. General comraderie of everyone on site
That's just to name a few!!! Thanks for running such a Good Ship!!!
I think you're right! Due to the changes in the policies at GW, I won't be accessing the forums there any longer. It's too bad, too, because I did enjoy conversing with some of the members there, that are not here.
From what I understand, there's a big change in various "privacy" policies due to ensue the end of this month. I believe copyright/ownership rights of anything posted there, including photos, as well as information sharing are 2 of the hot points.
I will have to go over there and look and see what is going on. LOL
I really like how easy it is to post pictures onto Davesgarden as opposed to Gardenweb. I used to have to use hyperlinks unless I wanted a picture too small to really see the detail. I know there must have been some way to do it, but it was not as easy as here.
When I heard there were some changes afoot, I took a look-see at their language (mainly to see if there was anything in there that was a good way to word something for our users. It looks like a lot of legalese - caused a flashback to my days of benefits administration, and dealing with the IRS and DOL regs - eeeek!)
What would give me the biggest pause as a member is what I found on their main forums page. Scrolling down past the list of forums is a list of posting "instructions" - one of them is pretty clear (if troubling):
Quoting:"All posted material becomes the property of this site."
That might be a "short and sweet version" of their terms of service that spells out copyrights, but it's a pretty sweeping statement.
Hmmm...does that include pictures since they aren't really posted on their site? You can't actually post them on GW so you have to go thru something like Photobucket. It's been so long since I've done it I've forgotten really, but probably don't want them using any of my pics.
Terri brings up an excellent point about the new policy. It will be interesting to see what happens when someone, say posts a quote which is already copywritten etc. Can GW automatically claim ownership to something say, TS Elliot wrote?
The biggest difference for me personally, is that on GW I have a place that I can confir with people who share my specific garden interests. Very specific forums. These particular forums to not exist on DG. I'm not as much into the general gardening talk and discussions of plants I can't grow in my climate, or climates that are not similar to mine.
I also found that although I did join up to mainly try and trade seeds, that most people here were more SASE oriented than trade oriented.
Personally, I do not find things friendlier at DG than I do at GW as I have made some very good and personal friends at GW due to the fact over there, there are local forums in which we can participate - which has facilitated meeting many gardeners.
Although I don't participate all that much in forum discussions here, I do use many features - I just looked at all the garden photo winners, I love the Garden Watchdog and use it regularly etc. So I appreciate each for it's own merit.
These, please understand are not in any way meant to be critiques of the way things are done at DG, just my own observations.
I just subscribed to DG, although I had joined the "free" part before. I was on GardenWeb for years. I didn't pay too much attention to Spike and would never engage in Spike-bashing. GW was more about the specific forums I hung around on and the people who also were on them. I learned a lot and some forums I really liked. The people posting on them were, for the most part, really nice people. On the whole (with some exceptions), I think it was a very good site until it was sold to iVillage. Before I even knew it was sold, the changes began. Lately they have been really brutal in their attempts to destroy GW. I know a little about iVillage and I can understand just a little about their motives. This is only the beginning of the downhill slide over there, I think. Some people over there have been very upset and angry and I was one of them. It probably won't do them a bit of good. I finally realized that I needed to get away from iVillage/GW for my sanity. At this point I can't say a lot about Dave's Garden, just that I like it a lot so far and my peace of mind is beginning to come back. I'm looking forward to getting on more forums and looking around.
Well, welcome Linda! I met wonderful people on GW and learned SO much! You'll learn to love Dave's tho. It's a little different setup but you'll soon get used to it. I LOVE the ability to "watch" threads! There are so many other functions that are available that I don't even have time to use, like the journals. It should be comfortable and FUN and all about the plants! :) (well, and the friends)
Well, I am only a member of this site, but though I see it is a very friendly site, my shyness keeps me from getting involved. However, it is one of the nicest and most comfortable sites I have ever visited. And it's easy, which is important from my less than modern computerized brain/background (turning off and on a computer is my limit, though I did miraculously learn to download photos- someday I will even learn how to 'hyperlink'). I have visited GW many times, and from my point of view, the only advantage it has is it's somewhat more 'popular' internet name. I think that way it generates more visits. But it is more difficult to get involved there, and there are WAY less photos of plants (particularly tropical plants, which is my area of interest). So even from a information-greedy, scientific point of view, this is the better site. And recently I revisited GW and was attacked by a barrage of advertisements, some which even kept me from being able to easily access some sites (kept popping up in the way)... not a pleasant experience. I certainly hope this site will forever resist the temptation to allow advertisers on its site. Thanks Dave!
I guess this proves the old saying "you get what you pay for"
Some people over there are bringig up the fact that this site makes you pay to be a subscriber to the forums. When you look at the stuff the "free" membership gets you over there including the zillions of pop-ups, is free really worth the cost? LOL
Quoting:I certainly hope this site will forever resist the temptation to allow advertisers on its site.
The nice thing is, I will -never- allow popup ads on the site (and you can quote me on that forever!!)
Moreover, I will always allow subscribers to "opt out" of the advertisements that we show to the non-subscribers. There is good advertising (PlantScout, for example) but that hardly counts as advertising.
So, enjoy it, keep your subscription up to date and you won't be bothered with ads. Yay!
Thrilled to see those words in print. I can't stand those types of ads. I would prefer to pay double the annual fee to avoid that distracting mess showing up on my monitor. I must admit I like it when I search for plants and am notified if a particular plant is available for sale so I'd really like to see that form of "advertising" stay if at all possible.
I just kinda "stumbled onto" Dave's...everytime I looked up a plant online I ended up in Dave's plantfiles, so I took a closer look and joined. It is exactly what it should be for me...good people who share info, plants, seeds, life. Somewhere recently I saw GW mentioned and went over to take a look...first thing that I noticed was that I didn't care for the format, but that could be just that I was used to Dave's. Saw that they had a salvia forum which appealed to me a lot, checked that out and then went to take a look at the seed trading. The first thing that I encountered was a posting from a person who was very, very threatening about their trading requirements and bad experiences. First, I certainly wouldn't want to trade with this person, but mostly this posting told me that there are a whole lot of ugly people out there who will do just anything to get your seeds!!! Why? All you need to do is ask. It just seemed indicative of what was going on there and gave me such a bad feeling of just being exposed to this that I decided I didn't want to go back for any reason. I can't with any experience compare the two since a maybe 10 minute exposure to the site made me feel so negative that I left without getting anymore involved. After reading all of this, I'm glad to see that my instincts are good.
I happily came across Dave's on a search engine. Within 15 minutes of checking out the site, I knew it was for me. I had never even heard of Gardenweb until I was at Dave's and to date, I have still not heard anyone who was happy with Gardenweb. Still, out of curiousity, I popped over there. My immediate reaction was "whoa, this is way too advertising focused." It felt hard to manuever through all the junk to find a forum I found of interest. I remember that I only entered one forum and I didn't like the tone in there because no one was providing information and some of the folks sounded arrogant. After that experience, I'd had enough visiting the other side of the tracks. Oh and one other weird thing, they have pop ups on their site!! I have 5 different pop up blockers set up but their site managed to sneak one in on me. I hate pop ups.
GirlGroupGirl, if you're still around after two years, could you give me some examples of the more specific or localized forums you found on GW? I find myself getting dizzy from the number of plant-specific and locale-specific forums here. I'm thinking maybe it's a different sort of category you're referring to?
There have been a number of forums added during the last two years. Since I don't usually hang out on GW I don't know if they still have more there than we do here, but we definitely have more than we did back then so that's probably why there's a disconnect between what she said and what you're observing now.
I went over to GardenWeb because I wasn't getting responses to my delphinium question. Dave's Garden is so much better for me because it alerts you to responses in threads where you've posted replies. That's such a relief! In GardenWeb you have to remember where you've posted replies and then go look there to see if someone has answered. I can't remember what day it is! Never mind how many posts I've made and where. I don't know what happens if you initiate a thread. No one has responded to the thread I initiated about delphiniums.
Bottom line. I'm so impressed with the way Dave's garden is structured and managed!!!!!
I've tried to go back and visit and join in some conversations but can't because of that exact reason...I can't find the threads I'm trying to keep up with!! And it's so boring without all the pictures!!
I go back there about once a year to snoop around and promptly remember why I don't go there anymore.
Aside from forgeting and/or trying to find the thread you posted in, with dial up service the downloading there takes FOREVER!
Does anybody know what happened to Mr. Cheerful? (aka Spike)
Ya I know he sold to iVillage...just wondering if he's still working for them or moved on.
Oh yah, I know all about the pops ups which are blocked on my pc but what keeps me away is the ultra slow download there.
Don't have time for it.
I have frequented the GW forums for around (8) years, I think.
I joined GW when the alternative was to endure the advertising pop-ups. I enjoy reading and participating in various forums, but am more of a lurker than not. I mostly soak up the garden- ing ambience and information.
I have witnessed some heated threads ... seen some account bannings, but was not aware of the larger scope of Spike antics until I happened upon this thread (I'm pretty non-confrontational).
I'd like to say that there are some pretty nice people that frequent GW, as well as some not-as-nice. GW seems to be a site for a wide range of persons, ... I guess, except for those who get on Spike's bad side.
One of the perpetual rubs was between the gardening "professionals" and the gardening "amateurs". (Some) of the professionals have a really hard time with the fact that gardening amateurs will show up on the site and ask for free advice. I'm a student of human nature and, at times, GW can be a quite educational teacher of human nature as well as plant nature. It can be fun.
Anyway, I have been visiting DG (less frequently) for around (2) years now ... and I really haven't learned yet how to use the site to its best effect for me.
I enjoy visiting both sites, as well as others (HGTV, etc.) as I have been very interested in gathering Garden info.
As I become more facile at this site, I'm sure that I will come to love it as much as most of you do.
Although I rarely go there anymore, since ivillage took over theres much more diplomacy used.
I got it first hand that ivillage was not in agreement with how Spike handled controversy.
I think Spike is gone or has much less power.
One thing I really like about GW is that you can post numerous photos easily in one post. And when you read a post, the photos come up a nice size that you don't have to do a lot of clicking back and forth to get it larger.
Is there any way we could do something similar here on DG?
This has nothing to do with any other sites, whether they are better or not. It's just basically me asking if we can change the way we post photos so that we can post more than one at a time and have them come out a bit larger. Just a programming change. Not intending to turn this request, or this thread, into anything else. There are plenty other places for those opinions to be expressed.
Gwendalou, that is something that has been asked for before and to be honest, I don't think I've ever tried to post a photo at GW.
Do they have an upload function like we do on our threads? (Beneath the post, where you can find the path on your hard drive or wherever the photo is located, then upload it?) If so, does it work (more or less) like Blogger does, which allows me to load something like 5 photos at a time and then move them around my blog post?
Or do you have to key in html tags to insert photos?
Do they host the photos, or are you hotlinking to them from another storage area, like photobucket or flickr?
I do understand it would be nice to allow more than one picture per post. I also understand why Dave designed the system the way he did (it keeps threads from getting really huge with a ton of photos to load everytime someone opens up a thread.)
You have to insert the tags. So I store my photos that I want to upload on photobucket. I believe there is more than one way to do it, but that's the way I do it. Maybe if it could be an option - that people could do it either way.
To address the really huge threads, well, I believe we get those anyway! LOL People just post one photo at a time. I don't think it stops anyone from contributing to huge threads. At least in the PNW forum it does not. We just start new threads whenever a thread gets beyond 300 posts.
Sometimes I see here on DG where someone has turned a collage of photos into one photo that they then post as one photo. I would like to learn how to do that, what programs one uses to do so, etc. So if anyone knows, please chime in! The photos are a little harder to distinguish, and of course, they are not large at all, but I can see that I would use something like that from time to time. If I knew how.
Stitching photos together is pretty straight forward in most photo editing tools. I think we have a photographer's forum where you can ask for some advice on which software and how-to-use it.
We do get huge threads, that's true. We actually encourage people to break at roughly 100 posts, especially if there are a lot of photos. I think the technology in this area has gotten better...I know Blogger just recently started letting people use their mouse to move photos around - before that you had to know enough html to tweak any photo into the exact position you wanted.
I can't promise any quick changes in this area but I'll definitely see what we can do as the tech team looks at ways to improve the forum features ;o)
Gwendalou wrote:This has nothing to do with any other sites, whether they are better or not. It's just basically me asking if we can change the way we post photos so that we can post more than one at a time and have them come out a bit larger. Just a programming change. Not intending to turn this request, or this thread, into anything else. There are plenty other places for those opinions to be expressed.
Gwendalou, I also do not want to go off-topic on this thread, but look at the name of the thread? I believe the person you were speaking to was trying to point out one difference between the two. Plus, I haven't read the entire thread in a long time so I don't remember, but I'm guessing there were a lot of comparisons and opinions going on before you asked the question.
Read the person's post again: "I used to think DG was better...and it was. Now...after what IB is doing...maybe not!"
So she is answering the original question, not yours.