I forgot about taking this pic last season. This one was quite striking while it lasted! I enjoyed the large blooms, about 4" across. They were from a packet of Purple Tye Dye and obviously mutated or were from open pollinated seeds? Sadly, I accidentally broke the vine off while trying to snap some additional pics a few days later. Just thought I'd share!
Very pretty. I am just learning about vines. Some of the morning glories are really pretty. After growing up on a farm and chopping many down when at home. I had never given them a second thought. I must do some research, any more good photos I could see?
Teresa in KY
Sandy - it really is a great idea to read the old posts, especially for us newbies. I scanned all 61? pages of threads on Friday night, and read the ones I was interested in. I'm going to start my first annual morning glory seeds inside in a few weeks so I want to make sure I don't mess them up.
(My eyeballs were ready to pop out of my head by the time I finished going through all those old posts!)
Holy Cow, MsKatt. Are you saying your morning glories germinated overnight? Awesome. Be sure to post some pix of your babies once they've grown a bit. How exciting.
(I hear ya about the addiction thing. I don't know if I've ever even seen a morning glory in my life but after seeing the pictures posted in the morning glory forum, I'm itching to grow my own. Haven't ventured on to ebay for seeds yet, but I imagine that's just a matter of time. LOL).
Well, I don't know if "germinated" is the correct term. I soaked them and when I took them out of the solution, they had little white things sticking out them. For this plant-challenged newbie, I'm calling them germinated! Woo hoo! :)
Now after they are in potting medium and green things actually appear...then I will post pics :)
The ray pattern is similar to Sazanami exept Sazanami looks like it has a blizzard affect along with it. It is very pretty the way the pattern comes out on the sides making the flower impressive to look at. I love it!
I remember you sharing that georgeous Sazanami. Do you s`pose this flower could be a cross with Sazanami? Did you grow this from seed that grew with your Sazanami or did you get it from another open pollinated source?
I`d be interested if Ron had any input.
Here is another flower that has the ray gene with the blizzard gene together that looks similar to the one seen in the Sazanami. It is a smaller type of flower. I think mine has six "spokes" to it but one is sort of "blizzarded" out. I can`t really tell from this picture or recall if it has 5 or 6. I`m growing it again from three larger healthier looking seeds I got from it. We will see what happens.
It isn`t as pretty as Sandy`s but I was inspired by the picture of her Sazanami flowers. I also noticed the flower in this thread has the ray pattern like the Sazanami but isn`t showing the blizzard. This one of mine is a little stray sporting the interesting patterns. :)
Btw,I got some Sazanami seeds on the way. I`m going to try growing some out and hand pollinating...so I can hopefully share these with everyone and get Sandy some more seeds. I hope they breed true!
Gardener2005...these MG's were from a pkt of Park's Purple Tye Dyed seeds, so they weren't a result of seeds I harvested. I do agree that they remind (us) of Sazanami. I doubt that I collected seed...don't have the opportunity for mature pods here in these parts! This year I am definitely growing more MGs in containers and will do what I have to in order to collect seed!
I do have a few more sazanami seeds that I will try and grow this year and collect seed from. Is the sazanami you have in route the more purple cultivar, or the blue like I posted in another thread? I know when I bought the seeds thru a Co-op, there were two different ones available.
When you grow them out I hope you can harvest seeds as I'm sure we'd all like to trade for them! BTW...I like the photo you posted...was this harvested seed or a particular variety? I'm partial to purples...oh, and blues...and pinks...and !!!
The Sazanami has thrown more different variations than any other 'named type' that I'm aware of...including all manner of blizzards,solids,dilutes and rayed...more inconsistencies than consistencies...the most consistent feature of a sazanami is the extreme variations that 'it' produces...JMHO...
The flower posted by Sandy here http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/Seedsower_1073704730_172.jpg
is typical of the variations that come out of the blizzard(s)...basically looks like a blue rayed type...it may or may not stabilize like shown...there are 5 types of blizzards described by Dr.Yoneda...some blizzards can have a cycle of patterns that can jump or skip generations...these patterns that jump generations may or may not become stabilized...
So,since the ray pattern is such a common 'archetypical' pattern...it get's thrown by various named or unamed types...the genes for the rayed pattern are floating around in alot of types...and I'm personally glad to see them as they get combined with color variations...
hopefully these variations will get isolated and stabilized...
too often the interesting variations just get lost in the genepool by being grown out in a situation where isolating the unusual variation just isn't done for various reasons,e.g., lack of sufficient motivation or plants grown out too intertwangled together to enable isolating the standout variations etc,...
I've noticed that alot of variations(more than usual) come out of Ohio and Texas...Sandy also seems to always get unusual variations ..
the 'mutations' from Ohio have been 'laughingly' ascribed to various types of environmental/Industrial pollution and this may actually be the case...what's going on in Texas and in Franklin,WI also remains 'speculative'...
Thanks Ron! You are right about the selection. Simply hand pollinating isn`t enough. The rogues and also the cool variants have to be singled out of the batches to avoid any undesirable traits or any traits not favorable for maintaining a partucular named cultivar. The hand pollinating eliminates cross pollination from insects but watching for the quality and partucular traits will ensure maintaining the variety. Another thing I do is purchase new seed of a variety once in a while to introduce genetic diverstiy to prevent too much inbreeding.
Sometimes I think you will see the flowers they used to create the variety. The seed can revert back to the varieties used to create the variety in the first place sometimes. Most working people are too busy to stop on the walkway on their way into work and say,"Oh,I better go mark that flower. It isn`t supposed to be pink...but I like this one. " I think it is wonderful we do have people who are taking the time to work on keeping their gardens growing pretty and taking care to maintain heirlooms and also coming up with different seldom seen colors and patterns. That is one of the reasons why I visit here.
Is this your plum frost? This went through stages. First is was almost solid purple rayed,then it developed blizzard in a sprinkling over it and the final blooms showed a bit more blizzard and some striping of the white. I bought these on ebay and it could have been you. I have some selfed hand pollinated seeds from this and growing it again at this very moment preparing the seeds to grow it out to see how it does. I crossed it with some others too.
Be sure to let us know what your blooms do. Are you sure it was 'Plum Frost' that I sent you.
It may be a bloom that I named 'Plum Shadows' which is a sport of 'Plum Frost'
All three photos above are 'Plum Shadows'. http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=3258410
So, maybe you will get the 'Real Thing'. BUT - What ever those seeds do, they WILL be awesome.
There are some VERY strong genes in this strain and it continues to amaze me at all of the different types, colors, and styles of blooms that I get.
Incidentally, this one single seed that gave me 'Plum Frost' came from one single seed that didn't grow true and was instead 'Plum Frost', that came from Japan. Now, that was confusing!
No that isn't 'Plum Frost'
But it IS 'Awesome'.
Love your Bloom...
I have gotten some very nice 'Plum Frost' Blooms since the original, but when I re-grow them they are not 'True'.
This could possibly be one of the types that may skip generations that Ron was talking about. Not sure yet. In the meantime, I am still trying.
I did get 'Plum Frost' from three different vines last year and once again tagged the seeds to grow again this year to see what they do.
Here is one of the Blooms from the Original 'Plum Frost'
This is another picture of the same purple rayed blizzard pattern vine after 4 more weeks. The blizzard progressed to more white over time so that no two flowers on the vine are ever,ever the same. And thanks Emma for sharing your pictures. Your Plum Frost looks special and good luck getting results this year!
Love your pictures, Emma! Can't wait to see the results of some that you shared with me.
Karen, yours is a beaut also! I'm getting anxious now...
Ron, could you point me to Dr. Yoneda's description of the 5 types of blizzard and their generational performance? I see that there are three different Blizzard genes identified, but find little information about them.
I can`t wait to see the results of the next generation! I `m about to find out a few things. I think the blizzard on some of my flowers is dominant but the flower might could carry for the solid. (I`m guessing here because I don`t know for sure right at this point.) If the flower isn`t completely dominant for blizzard then some solids could pop up.(Again I`m only wondering about it.)
If this were the case then all you could do is tag the vine as a solid color and also tag the vines with info about details you observed on vines with the right colors and shapes so you can tie and hand pollinate the right flowers and take from those only. You would have to over time "weed out" the ones showing unwanted hidden recessives to keep your flowers going true to the type you are looking for. I have added vines that I could safely remove without damaging others to the compost pile before they ever formed pods because I have to select the best for my garden. Anything I planted for experimentation not making the cut will get turned into food for the next generation. If I can`t safely move an unwanted vine away from the others then I will at least snip off the flowers every morning to prevent unwanted seedling volunteers later on.
Just think what the possible mathematical permutations of the interaction of the listed genes could be...and the above list is still only a partial listing of the known genes...what about all of the unknown factors(?!?)...e.g.,due to the sometimes very 'finicky' actions of many enzymes(which can be very sensitive to factors like temperature,minerals,various electro-magetic spectrum,mycorrhizal relationships(MHB) etc,etc) a gene may be present but not expressed or only partially so...
The site that of Yonedas that is up now is a newer version of an older siter that was up previously and that displayed differently...not all of the information that was presented on the older sites comes up or displays in the same way...
The info on both Dr.Yonedas site and the site at Kyushu is wonderful to have and the vast majority of it is correct and in order,but there are some contradictory presentations and even some of the photos of some species listed on Kyushu are in error...IMHO...
The site at Kyushu actually had an experimental seedtrading page up in English with some links to other sites and research papers...this only lasted for about 5 weeks and then it was pulled...some of this I had saved on different types of zip discs which I no longer have any working drives for...
I had been researching the blizzard (and other) genes and located papers in japanese that mentioned that there were 5 different types of Blizzard genes with varying degrees of dominance and recessiveness...including the ability of the patterns to skip generations and to be modulated by the absence and/or presence of a very large number of other genes... some of the papers were co-authored by Dr.Yoneda and/or referenced his work...
Depending on what search engine you use,how you parse the search,the particular browser and the time of day >the results can vary...
This is what I can locate easily at the moment without launching a more massive indepth search...
Thanks Ron! I have spent much time with the list of genes by Dr. Yoneda also. I also have a "translated" copy of the list from Kyushu, which I use a lot also because they use a bit different language...or at least it gets translated differently. I use both to help decipher the meanings of genetic terms and descriptions that get translated various ways. It is fun, but frustrating sometimes.
I am glad you pointed out to me the fourth, recessive, blizzard gene, as I had really overlooked it! I would like to get access to the literature so I could maybe glean more descriptive information...if there are distinguishing characters or affects of these various blizzard genes. I appreciate your ability to take me back to reality by reminding me that there are so many different factors involved in a displayed phenotype...and genetics is just one! I have a tendency to over simplify some things...probably so I can make sense of them!
I'm looking forward to exploring the blizzard like look I have found in the I. cordatotriloba population near me. As well as isolate it, I may try some test crosses to the pink and the white varieties also present.
I think it is ok to create a hypothesis and follow some kind of plan. I`m simply going to grow out the crosses,collect selfed seeded pods in batches labeled with the information so I can go back to it. I might do back crosses if I get the notion. I will probably tag blooms that look unusual or get my attention for whatever reason and collect batches from that entire vine. Then I`m going to do a test grow of a randomly selected dozen or so seeds and then see if I could use them for trading as a hybrid mix or maybe they are super special and I want to do a bigger grow out. Time gives some answers and maybe not all at once but the mystery and unknown factors just make it more fun and interesting.