Ok, I'm confused on these two roselle hibisucus

Judsonia, AR(Zone 7b)

I have both the false roselle (maroon leaves , pink flower) and the true roselle Hibiscus sabdariffa var. rubra. Or that's what the seed packet said when I bought it. I just looked up info on the var. rubra here on PDB and it came up as the maroon leaved, pink flowered one. Not the green leaved, purple vein, yellow flower one. So what is wrong, the plant files, or the company I bought the seeds from, which I no longer remember. Which one do I have then, that's the yellow flowering one. Here are pictures of both



Maroon leaves, pink flowers.

Thumbnail by kathy_ann
Judsonia, AR(Zone 7b)

here's the yellow flowered, green/leave, purple stem and veins

do you know if this is really the var. rubra. or something else. both these are the ones used inmaking teas. but this one is suppose to be rare.

Thumbnail by kathy_ann
San Antonio, TX(Zone 8b)

True roselle, teatime hibiscus, Florida cranberry is Hibiscus sabdariffa - no rubra with the name ... looks like your 2nd photo. The leaves are can be 3,5 or 7 lobed.
http://www.floridata.com/ref/H/hibi_sab.cfm
http://botany.cs.tamu.edu/FLORA/perdeck/vin_176.jpg
Pull down to the Hibiscus sabdariffa.
http://www.malvaceae.info/Genera/Hibiscus/galleryF.html#sabdariffa

But, there are 2 types of Hibiscus sabdariffa. One is H. sabdariffa var. sabdariffa ... race 'ruber' (not rubra, maybe your seed packet was marked incorrectly). This may be what caused you to be a bit confused and the photo shown in the PlantFiles is incorrect. It indeed is not a yellow bloom. The link below discusses the different types. The leaves are can be 3,5 or 7 lobed

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/roselle.html
Hibiscus sabdariffa var. sabdariffa ruber
http://www.nutritionfocus.com/nutrition_supplementation/herbs/hibiscus.html#1

Photos of the 2 plants that are sometimes confused with each other: false roselle (Hibiscus acetosella) and roselle. The photo in the PlantFiles in the true roselle may be false roselle.
http://www.io.com/~wilsone/herbphotos,misc.htm

The false roselle (Hibiscus acetosella) entry in the PlantFiles seems to have photos of 2 different plants. The blooms and leaves in the first photo are smaller than the others.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/2112/

After many hours now and no sleep, I am still trying to figure out what Hibiscus sabdariffa var. rubra is. The only links that come up with information lead back to the PlantFiles or Onalee's Home Grown Seeds and Plants Store. Is there a plant with this name? After trying to assist you, now I am perplexed. Maybe someone will come along and help both of us sort this out. Last year I attempted to determine which are the "true" photos of roselle and false roselle and finally gave up. I am glad that you brought this up because the photos in the PlantFiles are confusing.

This message was edited Jul 10, 2005 4:34 AM

Judsonia, AR(Zone 7b)

Well, Darn, I no longer have the package that my seeds came with, I could have spelled it wrong, But I even called them and they told me it was the one with the yellow flower on it. My green leaved hibiscus, does have the 3 lobes on it. some have a few more the older the plant gets. I wish I could remember the name of that web site I got the seeds from . But I can't .

So your saying my green leaved hibiscus doesn't have the yellow flower? Well, I guess I'll see soon enough, I'm sure they'll bloom before summer, my marooned leaved hibiscus has blooms on it now.

thanks for all your hard work, and dedication, seems like this has been raised before, I didn't know about it. But would definitely like to know now,

kathy

San Antonio, TX(Zone 8b)

kathy, you are quite welcome. I think your green-leaved one will have the yellow bloom. It is probably Hibiscus sabdariffa var. sabdariffa. I don't know if these questions have been raised before on DG. But, I do know that I was trying to ID one of these plants before and became very confused before I decided to give up.

This message was edited Jul 10, 2005 10:26 PM

Judsonia, AR(Zone 7b)

Well, This Hibiscus sabdariffa var. sabdariffa does sound familiar, I think your right, I'll post pics of the flowers when they bloom. I'm really looking forward to these blooms.

kathy

San Antonio, TX(Zone 8b)

I will be awaiting the photo of the flowers.

Deep East Texas, TX(Zone 8a)

Did these Hibiscus ever bloom?

Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

Hi Kathy,

Are u still interested in Roselle (hibiscus Sabdariffa)? I am from Malaysia, Roselle is quite common in our country, I have some seeds and willing to share with u if u want. My Roselle is the type that u mention, that can make tea, juice, jam etc, which also good for health.

Deep East Texas, TX(Zone 8a)

Chia ~ does this look like the one you have?

Thumbnail by podster
Deep East Texas, TX(Zone 8a)

These are the seed pods ~

Thumbnail by podster
Judsonia, AR(Zone 7b)

podster is that pink or yellow? the seeds I finally got had the yellow flower.

Fate, TX(Zone 8a)

and i have a maroonish leaved plant with a yellow flower. i had no idea there were so many. podster, will you have any seeds of the one you have which looks pink?

Fate, TX(Zone 8a)

maybe my leaves are green with maroon stalks and bloom pods. i love it whatever color it is.

Deep East Texas, TX(Zone 8a)

Kathy Ann ~ I didn't mean to step on your thread but when Chia posted ~ I thought AHA here is someone that may know what this is for sure...

The research I have done indicated it is H. sabdariffa ~ Roselle. This was from [HYPERLINK@www.hort.purdue.edu]

Quoting:
Flowers, borne singly in the leaf axils, are up to 5 in (12.5 cm) wide, yellow or buff with a rose or maroon eye, and turn pink as they wither at the end of the day. At this time, the typically red calyx, consisting of 5 large sepals with a collar (epicalyx) of 8 to 12 slim, pointed bracts (or bracteoles) around the base, begins to enlarge, becomes fleshy, crisp but juicy, 1 1/4 to 2 1/4 in (3.2-5.7 cm) long and fully encloses the velvety capsule, 1/2 to 3/4 in (1.25-2 cm) long, which is green when immature, 5-valved, with each valve containing 3 to 4 kidney-shaped, light-brown seeds, 1/8 to 3/16 in (3-5 mm) long and minutely downy. The capsule turns brown and splits open when mature and dry. The calyx, stems and leaves are acid and closely resemble the cranberry (Vaccinium spp.) in flavor.


The blooms open yellow and turn pink from the edges. The center has a red eye and the calyces ARE tasty! Problem is, I have been trying not to eat them! They remind of crabapples or cranberries or... delicious and I want to try jellies and teas and...
I do hope to have seed and am intending to try overwintering this plant indoors.

The leaves on this plant are green with reddish veins ~ Mamajack. All parts of this plant are edible including the leaves, blooms and seed pods... Perhaps Chia can give a positive ID.

Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

Podster u are right, the plants is roselle.
Roselle (hibiscus sabdariffa) is green leaf, with red-purple wood (branches), after flower will have red color fruit. However,the color of flower is either yellow or pink.The fruit can cook and made juice etc.

Another type of Roselle said to be the family member is red leaf, and is not eatable, only for garden planting.

I have some seeds left, those interested, I don't mind to share with u all.

Deep East Texas, TX(Zone 8a)

Thank you Chia ~ I appreciate your confirming the ID. It is a delightful plant. Your seeds are which, this same one?

Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

This are the photos taken during a school project in Taiwan, in which also popular in making healthy food.

photo 1 show the fruit is ready to harvest.

Thumbnail by chia
Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

Photo 2 show the youth helps to clean the fruit and cut the fruit, take away the seeds inside.

Thumbnail by chia
Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

photo 3 show the fruit is ready for cooking. It has been cut into pieces and take away all the seeds.

Thumbnail by chia
Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

photo 4 show boiling of Roselle with water. After cooking, will let it cool down, some may add in sugar, put in botter and store in fridge, when u want to drink, mixed with water, just like concentrated orange juice.

Thumbnail by chia
Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

Hi Podster,
My seeds are also Roselle, pink flower, green leaf, the fruit can cook for juice etc.

Judsonia, AR(Zone 7b)

Podster, you didn't step on any thread, No worries here. Look at those photos! Cool.

Deep East Texas, TX(Zone 8a)

I am fascinated by the processing photos. I need to think how to ask Chia what I want to know here.

Fate, TX(Zone 8a)

chia, let me get this straight..............the flowers bloom. then the calyx will form seeds. and while this is still fresh you pick it and take the seeds out and then you can eat them raw or cook them, is that right? are the seeds green at this point and therefore not viable?

and you have a green leaf roselle that has pink flowers? and one with yellow flowers? and then you are saying that the one with maroon leaves and pink flowers is hibiscus acetocella and that is strictly ornamental.......it is the one they call false roselle, right?

also, i understand this plant is an annual so it wouldn't do any good bringing it inside, right? or is this plant perennial where you are chia?

also, i would love to get seeds of the pink flowering roselle. what kinds of things would you like in trade?

Deep East Texas, TX(Zone 8a)

LOL Mamajack ~ you beat me to it... I do know it is an annual. I also know it can be overwintered by cuttings so I assume the plant can also be overwintered in a tropical climate. I also know that if I had harvested the calyces rather than allow them to bear seed, the plant would have continued to rebloom. I have kept this plant in a pot so I can experiment with overwintering as well as collect the seed. I was amazed at how quickly the blooms formed seed. Unfortunately, the plant is too top heavy from the weight of the fruits.

Now, Chia ~ what I need to know please...

If I pick the seeds when green and remove the calyces ~ will they continue to ripen?
The edible portion is the red protective part that covers the seed?
Also the center of the bud? It that correct?

I have eaten pod, seed and all but I am assuming they save the seeds to reproduce?
How do I know when the seeds have ripened to the point of harvesting for seed?
When the seed is ready to harvest, is the balance of the calyx still edible?

I appreciate your patience and knowledge and am sure I will think of more questions. TIA ~ pod

Fate, TX(Zone 8a)

well between us we are bound to get this straight. lol.

Deep East Texas, TX(Zone 8a)

Hope we didn't scare Chia off ... 8 (

Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

Hi Mamajack,

You are right, Hibiscis Sabdariffa and Hibiscus Acetocella look similar, the different is that Sabdariffa is green leaf, and the flower is bigger. There is another variety of Sabdariffa, the fruit (calyces) is white color instead of red color. But I do not have this kind of plants. When the calyx is 70% ripe, that is the best time to harvest, if u waite until it fully ripe, the calyx will turn dark color and break, harder and seeds is dark color. While it is still fresh, the seeds is white and green color. Calyces can be eaten raw or cook.

People in Eastern like the taste of sweet-sour, therefore, we seldom eat raw calyx. So it depends how u want to eat, the whole plant can be cook as vegetable or boil as soup. The roots, leaf, stem, seeds can made medicine. Calyx can made wine too.

Beside make concentrated juice (which is the best), the other product is that, calyces (dry) is mixed with salt and sugar, and kept in fridge for few days before u eat it. Some people put calyces in bottle, one layer is calyces , second layer is sugar, third is calyces again....and put in fridge for few days.

If u want to made tea, just take a few calyces (can either be fresh one or dry under the sun), put in a cup and pull in hot water, waite for a while (the longer the better), after the water turn dark (red), then take away the calyx (it will become soft), and is ready to drink.

This plants is annual.

Please send me your address, I will pack the seeds for u. I will check your trade list if I find anything interesting for me.

Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

HI Podster,

If u pick the seeds when white-green they will change color later (or u said is ripen), this kind of seeds may not have good germinate rate. Ya, the edible portion is the red protective part that covers the seed, most people choose that part (calyx). Just as u said, other part like centre etc is also eatable. We choose calyx s because it produce good taste, a bid of sour and sweet.

If u prepare seeds for planting, let it fully ripen, the color of the calyx will became darker and darker, or even it will break itself. The seeds at that time is ripen, dark geen or dark color. The balance still edible but it is harder. In fact one plant can have hundreds of fruit, u need to reserve a few calyxes for seeds that will be enough, while the rest is harvest for cooking.

Friendly speaking, I am not an expert in Roselle, but I love to plant tropical hybrid hibiscus.

Fate, TX(Zone 8a)

well chia...........on that sabdariffa with the white calyxes...............where do we find it? lol.

and how many different types of hibiscus do you grow? do you grow them outside? if i can find some, would you like trop. hib. seed in exchange for these? i don't have any but i can try and trade for some. did you get your dl seeds?

Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

Hi Mamajack,

I have see the photo of white calyx on Taiwan web site and according to the introduction, it was openly sold in Taipei flower market. Attach is a photo taken from web site.

I like tropical hibiscus, if anyone have it, I would love to trade, or buy from them. At present, I planted in my front compound and some in pot.

Thumbnail by chia
Deep East Texas, TX(Zone 8a)

Chia I appreciate your sharing your knowlegde on H. sabdariffa with us. Although you say you are not an expert on Roselle, you know far more than I do and I value your assistance.

I only grow one tropical Hibiscus and have had it for years. No seeds that I have ever seen.

I do have seeds from hardy Hibiscus in yellow or pink. I believe I also have some from this years blooms of H. Coccineus http://davesgarden.com/community/journals/si/107519/ and will gladly share with you...

Fate, TX(Zone 8a)

i am looking for some trop. hibiscus seeds as well for you. and will keep you in mind whenever i see any for trade.

and are you saying that you bought the white one from the taipei market or that you saw it there? was it expensive? i could help with the expense so that you could grow us all some seeds. i do so love a new and different plant. lol. and by the way,,,,,,what color did you say the white one blooms?

Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

Hi Podster,
Thanks, I prefer tropical hibiscus, not H coccineus. U need to pollinate the flower by hand, as it is difficut through insect, as such u may not able to get seeds, and some variety is not producing seeds pod.

Well Mamajack, I have not been to Taipei yet, I just notice it through web site. But if I happen to be there or can find any seeds from my friends, I will try to get it for u.

I appreciate if anyone can give me tropical hybrid hibiscus seeds or even sell to me.

Deep East Texas, TX(Zone 8a)

Chia ~ have had this "common" tropical many years... Surely by now a bug would have gotten lucky but no seeds. This may be one on those only reproduced by cuttings... If ever I get seed, you will be at the top of the list. I also have a variegated which has not bloomed for me ~ yet. But will remember you...

This message was edited Oct 27, 2007 7:52 PM

Thumbnail by podster
Fate, TX(Zone 8a)

chia, which trop. hib. do you grow already? do you have any?

Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

Thanks Podster, u are so kind.

Ya Mamajack, I have some variety last time given by AHS in US and Australia, but not all of them germinate and some die half way. Like this one:

Thumbnail by chia
Kuching, Sarawak,, Malaysia

Another one here,

By the way, tropical hibiscus is our national flower.

This message was edited Oct 27, 2007 1:16 PM

Thumbnail by chia
Fate, TX(Zone 8a)

did you write the guy in fla. for some seeds? or did you buy any from ebay?

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