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I have a small bathroom that I want to re-paper. The original paper that is there is VERY tight and in very good shape. It is stuck on extremely tight and I do not want to have to peal it off. That seems like too much work! It is a small bathroom with a tight grouping of a shower stall, vanity and toilet. LOTS of nooks and crannies to paper around, though!
I talked to our floor and wall expert at my HD and she said it was OK to do so as long as I cleaned the walls off with that "Phosphate stuff" (which I bought) and that I used a wallpaper paste for Kitchens and bath (which i also bought).
Does anyone have any encouraging words to share? Any "horror stories" doing this project?
Gita, My first question is... Is this your first wallpaper project?
People think that a small bath is a good first try, not always. You mentioned the tight space and many things to go around/behind.
Your advice is right on, be sure to also have some 'Seam adhesive' to use in the cut corners. A 4 and 6or8 inch metal putty knife, break-away type razor blades and a good vinyl/plastic smoother.
Andy P
I did wallpaper over wallpaper once and it came out fine, but it was not in a high humidity area. I don't know how much difference that would make in the long run, if what you are covering is still that tight. Bathrooms and kitchens are hard to do because of all the nooks and crannies and corners, but really worth the effort. Send pictures!
I wallpapered over wallpaper in a bedroom and it came out great. I did not use any phosphate stuff (not sure what that is). I did buy the paste, rather than try using the pre-pasted back of the wallpaper. It is still holding good and tight about 4 years later. I have a bathroom that was papered over paper (not by me). It is not doing as well, but it is high humidity (daughter's bathroom - 45 minute showers not uncommon!) AND it looks like the underneath wallpaper is really slick metallic type stuff). I'm going to have to re-do that room soon! My dad has wallpapered for years, and he says it is not uncommon in old houses to have 4 layers of wallpaper on a wall! Linda
By now you have most likely done the deed so this is for anyone else that comes along. I have had the "NIGHTMARE" of stripping other's wallpaper and it's not fun.
If you "Size" the wall first before papering, it should make your removal job easy later when you redo that room.
The Bathroom is the hardest room in the house to paper. Try to find a small repeat or stripe to make it easy to match.
Best of luck.
Sidney
Thanks for your advice! NO!!!! I have NOT done anything yet! Seems all my projects just live in my brain. Also, not being totally familiar on how to go about it makes me procrastinate.
The paper I bought has a small floral and leaves pattern, so matching the design is almost a non-issue. This bathroom is only 4'x7' in total. The hardest part will be papering around the door, the window, the toilet tank, the medicine cabinet and the top part of the shower stall. A lot of features for a small bathroom.
As you stated--it will be difficult! I better start soon, as work is really slow this time of year and I have ALL these days free.
Gita, One small piece of advice. Plan to start the papering where there will be the smallest cut. As you go around the room and finish, the last strip of paper will have to be cut against it. This last strip should be a bit wider than needed, after you are satisfied with the positioning, do a "Double Cut". This is where you cut through both layers at once. Remove the excess of this last strip and the freshly cut piece of the first strip. You will get a clean cut that is almost invisible.
My favorite starting place is over the entrance door near the corner of the room.
I have done a lot of papering so if I can be of any help, just ask.
Andy P
What do you mean by saying," Start the papering where there will be the smallest cut"??? That is not clear to me. I like the idea starting above the door. That area is only about 8" of space.
Actually--I think I will start where the ceramic tile ends that is the shower surround as this is also a narrow enough area that a part of thr roll will be over the door. The tile goes practically from floor to ceiling. I do not plant. to ever remove this layer of wallpaper, so I will not use any sizing. I WILL use "Kitchen/Bathroom" paste to hold it tight! Also, starting at the edge of the tile may come in handy if i do not have enough to do the area above the tile inside the shower. I can always just paint that part.
I remember how hard my Ex and I worked to put on the paper that is there now! Him being the all-talanted handyman, I am sure he removed the medicine cabinet to wallpaper around it. I won't be doing that! That was in the 80's! The pattern and the colord are, by now, YUK!!!!
I am familiar with the "double cut", Also, before I start, I will be sure to read through my "Home Depot 1-2-3 How to Book" for emotional support. I really have NO idea when i will actually do this! It is always...Magnana!!!!! I am the queen of procrastination!
Gita, I don't know the layout of the room. I like to start at a corner above the door because it is often the least visible spot.
A little planning goes a long way, figure how wide the paper is and you will know where the though areas will be. The paper/vinyl will stretch almost a 1/4 inch in width when wet.
You don't want the new seams to be on top of the old ones or to fall within an inch of a corner.
Have fun.
Andy P
My mother (who I always thought had an obsessive-compulsive disorder) wallpapered over some other wallpaper, which wasn't the first coat of wallpaper, as it turned out. she wanted new wallpaper but didn't want to remove all the old stuff. At first it looked good, then one humid day one whole wall's worth of it peeled off to 2/3 of the way down in one fell swoop, scaring the dog half to death. I don't think it ever quite dried, instead getting all three or four layers damp until it gave up and fell off. I guess the reason I'm mentioning it is because you were going to paper a bathroom, which is usually more humid than the rest of the house.
I appreciate all the input I am getting here. I have never heard of wall paper just falling off a wall! Perhaps she did not use the proper techniques or precautions--like cleaning the old layer properly or not using wallpaper paste at all. I can see where if someone buys self-adhesive wallpaper and then thinks that it will hold. NAHHH!!!!
I have not yet even started my project (and don't know when I will). The reason I am going to apply my new wallpaper over the old is that the one that is there my Ex and I SLAVED away and did such a good job on it that it is still holding tight as can be after 25+ years--even the top part above the tile inside the shower stall. Talk about presence of moisture! To me, removing this would be a chore I do not want to do!
The same thing happened in my moms house as Eileens. I believe my mom has OCD also and believe me the walls were prepared first, involving washing down the wallpaper (not too much water though) already on the walls, allowing it to dry, pasting the wallpaper, etc. It fell down. This wasn't even a bathroom with a shower. It was the 1/2 bath on the main floor. Then I got involved and removed the old wallpaper, removed all the paste, washed down the walls, sized the walls and redid the paper. That paper stuck. It does happen!
If you have a shiny wallpaper, you will need to strip it. The shiny surface will never hold a new layer of paper. Several years ago, papered a kitchen with the shiny surface, then papered over it. All othe paper did not adhere well. This year, stripped all of the paper, and the hold is good so far.
My moms wallpaper wasn't shiny. I really have no idea on why it fell, but it did! In this old house, in our bedroom we removed layer after layer of wallpaper. Only the top layer was shiny or vinyl, and most layers below were painted. Maybe that's how they got it to stick. I would never paint over paper though, it's just too hard to remove!
You are all scaring me now! Both the existing and the new wallpaper I bought are labeled as Vinyl. They are not shiny per say. Just wallpaper.
Maybe I should go talk to some professionals. I have a hard time believing that I will have a problem doing this...BUT!!! Now you have all planted a seed of doubt in my head. Someone out there PLEASE tell me it ain't necessarily so!!!! I can't take this wallpaper back as it was clearanced. I bought 3 double rolls at $7 each at my HD. They were just getting rid of all their wallpaper and borders. Can't refuse a deal!!!!
Gita, I think you can do it just fine.
For safety's sake you might want to 'size' the existing paper first.
Apply it directly to the old paper with a Mini roller (aka Sausage roller) and let it dry, then paper over that.
Sizing seals the old walls/paper and gives a good surface for the new paper to adhere to.
One quart should be enough for one coat in a bath when applied with a Mini.
A mini roller is typically 6 inches long and about 1 inch in diameter with 3/8 th inch nap. A great alternative to those cumbersome standard rollers for small jobs. I use then all the time.
Andy P
Gita, if you haven't already, please talk to the pros of which you were speaking! The humidity here is very low, as a general rule, and I'm finding out that there's nowhere as dry as what I've gotten used to (summer temp, for example- 107, humidity single digit, very comfortable to me as long as I'm going upwind)- no doubt the swamp cooler added some humidity, but it peeled down the wall anyway, just like I said.
One thing you could do is have a bunch of buddies over for a paper-peeling party. I know I'd go- my mother-in-law and grandma-in-law helped us peel my mom's crappy wallpaper job off a bedroom once, including the dang closet. Did a great job, too!
Thanks for your concern, Eileen. Believe me, when I actually get to this chore, I will re-read all of your good advice.
Andy! As per YOUR suggestion, I bought a can of sizing and will go that route whenever i get to it. May be next winter--who knows? As soon as the Spring season hits, i will be a lot busier at work and spend every free minute in my Garden.
I am grateful that so many of you cared to give me all this great support and advice.
I was a professional wallpaper installer for 12 years. Here's how I did it.
First of all, ...nearly ALL wallpaper has a vinyl coating nowdays. Even if it dosen't look like it, just trust me, it does.
Second...vinyl won't stick to vinyl, thus the reason it falls off...and it will, unless surface of old paper is properly prepared.
This technique works every time. So you can feel confident that if you do it this way, you're going to be fine.
1. You can use a "Vinyl to Vinyl" wallpaper paste. (which is probably what your kitchen / bathroom paste is), if it's white and milky looking like a thin Elmer's glue, you're good. It should say it's made to hold vinyl to vinyl somewhere on the label though. Be sure it does. Very important if you are not going to use the Kilz mentioned below. Double check to make sure it says "Vinyl to Vinyl Adhesive"
2. You can use a primer product such as "Kilz" to paint onto the old wallpaper to seal off the vinyl surface. This should be done a day or so ahead and allowed to dry. This will make the old wallpaper look opaque.
If you use the "Kilz" primer, you should not need any special wallpaper paste other than just a regular wallpaper paste product. I never trusted just the lick and stick stuff that comes on the paper...I always pasted mine.
As a professional, doing it for money... I could never afford to take a chance on whether my paper was going to stick or not. I hung over lots and lots of papers and made good money at it.
If you're still unsure... try one of the techniques in a small area that is not visable (behind door etc.) and let a small piece of wallpaper stick there for a few days and see what it does. If it readily peels back off, you need to try another product. You should be able to tell. Good luck
Thank you for your excellent advice! Nothing like hearing from someone who has been there and done that!
I have not yet done any of my wallpapering! I am the queen of procrastinators...I lack confidence to tackle projects I am not sure I will be successful completing! :o(
I went and got the bottle of adhesive I bought at HD. It is made by "Golden Harvest" and there is a "GH-95" on the front label--some kind of code??? Anyway, on the back, under " Feature" it says that it is a poly-vinyl resin. It DOES say to remove the old wallpaper, but it also talks about mildew and such, which I may well have as I use this bathroom for showering--so "Kilz" may be the way to go.
I am NOT going to remove this wallpaper! I cannot find anywhere on the bottle that it is "vinyl to vinyl". It does say, under "Surface preparation" that...
"To guarantee the success of Kitchen and Bath Wallpaper Adhesive, the surface must be primed with a water resistant white acrylic primer, such as "Golden Harvest BITE Premium White Primer". Wonder if that is the same as "Kilz"???
I just painted my downstairs walls in the club room and I used "Kilz" as a primer. I felt I should do this as half the walls are below ground level and prone to slight mildewing if something is sitting against the wall tightly for a long time. Is a Primer the same as "sizing" when it comes to wallpapering?
Who knows when i will get to it! Spring is now upon us and I have a lot to do outside!
Gitagal, Painting Kilz over your old wallpaper will make it a permanent fixture and it will never come off.
If you don't mind making that old paper "Permanent", go ahead.
Personally I think that is a sin. Future owners will have to do a lot of work to get the walls nice and smooth if they ever wish to paint it.
I've done it, but only as a last resort.
You will have to 'size' the walls after the Kilz and before papering.
Andy P
I have never painted over wallpaper nor papered over wallpaper. I've had to remove both though. It's the most pain in the rear job anyone would have to do. It takes 100 times more effort, more money, more everything to get the stuff down. I would run if a pro told me that paint over wallpaper is an o.k. thing to do. A friend of mine is getting ready to list her house. She decided to remove wallpaper from her bathroom. She found wallpaper directly on the drywall. No paint first, no sizing. Her husband had to re-drywall the bathroom. I couldn't agree more with Andy. I would hope though, that if you did, you disclose that, when and if you ever sell. Not many people will want the job of trying to remove painted over paper or re-drywalling the bath because somebody didn't do it properly. Just my.02 worth.
I painted over the wall paper in my bathroom AND bedroom, it was a brand new mobile home but I hated the paper patternso I picked out the colors I liked best and painted away. there was an amazing surprise, I hadnt put much thought to the TEXTURE of the paper and when painted it just POPPED right out and looked absolutely amazing.
