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I thought I'd start a new thread for updates on the strep seedlings (with a better thread title!) This is a continuation of this thread: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/551970/ I hope you'll post your progress, frustrations, non-progress etc here.
Just to recap:
I tried crossing a big strep with floofy purple petals from Parks Seed's Royal series strain with a small narrow-leaved strep with simple white flowers. The white one was the mother.
The white strep often selfed itself, so I was quite rude when pollinating. I literally ripped the petals and the anthers (with pollen) off the flowers first, and then pollinated it. I still wasn't sure if I had managed to keep all the white pollen off the white stigmas, but I guess we shall see.
I harvested the seed around November 30 and let them dry in a paper envelope. I broke open the pods on December 2, 2005, and sowed them on December 5 using my usual method (http://www.flickr.com/groups/gesneriads/discuss/22059/). I didn't watch for germination, so I don't know exactly how long it took.
I am now treating this batch like royalty, and following the sage advice of expert hybridizers that it truly pays to disturb the seedlings every two weeks (by potting up, or repotting into the same pot, or at least jiggling the root zone).
Nannavarro posted a pic of her seedlings in the old thread. Sowed in the afternoon of December 14, germination noticed in the morning of December 26.
This image here is either the father or an uncle :^) I finally found a pic.
After I took the last photo, I gave them a bit of seaweed fertilizer and squished the pot a couple of times. I also started opening up the bag gradually, so it is now sitting in an open ziploc bag - this gives it some extra humidity while the roots develop, but acclimatizes it to the regular room air as well.
I haven't watered them since I put them on the soil. Until today, then I took my garden spray bottle with the finest micro mist and gave just a few mists. Then put the lid back on. If it gets too foggy, I take the lid and turn it a bit so it is only about 90% covered.
I started a seed planting tutorial photo thingie today, I'll post it a bit later. Kind of like the strep propagation photos I took.
yes, I use 13-13-13 nutricote for other plants so that's what I used. Supposedly Osmocote has a tendency to dump the fertilizer in one massive dose if the temperature is too hot, which can happen in my apartment in the summer. I hear Nutricote is safer.
I have a pod of Saintpaulia (Noid) that just went dry. It is very much like a Petunia in shape and seed size. I don't want more of this plant, but the seedlng experience would be welcome. Do AV seeds need light or darkness; heat or room temp?
Thanks from someone who no longer has the time to research for himself!
Lorry - better luck next time! Seeds are so plentiful, it's worth trying again when you feel like it. If your conditions are humid enough, you might be able to just scatter seeds and find that some grow.
What do you think I'll get from this pod on my new Stardust Chirita? This was the bloom I showed the other day. Bloom fell off, (ok, i knocked it off by accident, but it came off very easily so I think it was done) and left behind this cool pod!
I'm not too sad about it, 'cause look at those other buds! OH yea, and my Bristols Hug Me strep has one too! AND I have an av loaded with pods too!
you guys have me so excited about my streps...i am going to keep consistant records on the leaves i am putting down...hard to imagine in 2 weeks though..but we'll see...thanks so much for your expertise.
Generally I hear it recommended that they be potted individually as soon as they are large enough to handle. (In other words, mine can definitely be potted individually.) If you set them up on wicks or are good at watering, and you have small pots, this is probably good advice.
Since I am not very good at watering, I keep them in compots (3-4 plants per pot) for much longer, although I do pot them up a size regularly.
Overfertilization scares me now. I had been slowly killing my beloved Caricas and all the while wondered what on earth could be deficient in them! Now I don't fertilize until the plants ask for it!
Hi Kenton! I also prefer to underfertilize everything. This is a habit I have from growing orchids and from my tendency to underwater everything.
Healthy established AVs can be fertilized regularly though, and some plants that have a massive growth spurt in spring can be flooded with fert without a problem. Also, plants that like to stay wet all the time are less prone to fertilizer burn than those that like to go dry between waterings - fertilizer+dry roots = fert burn.
Another precaution to take is to flush the pots regularly with plain water. Sensitive plants should be flushed with a lower ph water for effective leaching. An alternative is to simply repot the plants (new potting mix, even if the pot size stays the same) every 6 months.
Excellent link from Dibleys! Interesting to note that they recommend a high potash fertilizer (that's a high K in NPK). I'm going to dig around for some - I think I have some somewhere.
Yes fertilizer high in high potash is good for Strep's.
" Always on the move" is probaly the best way to describe this nutrient's status in a plant. Its exact function isn't known ; but if it is missing the plant's reaction can be easlily predicted. It has been credited with making plant more resistant to diseases, causing the plants to be able to withstand cooler temperatures than normal, and aiding plant roots by improving their ability to abosorbe other plant nutreients from the soil.
I forgot to point out that fertilizer strength plays the critical role in fertilizer burn. It's obviousl but still...
For eg, the VF-11 that a lot of people here seem to like has NPK of 0.15-0.85-0.55 - no wonder it won't cause fertilizer burn. In comparison, I dilute fertilizer that has numbers at around 20-20-20 or 10-30-30 - I start with those because some of my plants actually need that at full strength and its cheaper for me to just have a few NPK ratios and not various strengths of the same (e.g., doesn't make sense for me to have a bottle of 20-20-20 as well as a 4-4-4).
I was able to fill six dixies with the strongest of the group. And they were always about 8" from the lights. Pretty close. But these seeds start with one BIG leaf and then there's a second baby leaf at the base the size of a pin head.
After comparing, mine looked to be the same size after 2 and a half months as Key's were at 4 weeks. I must not be so great at this. Or maybe that replant every 2 weeks has merit!
I'll keep my eye on these guys now more closely. I did lift a lot of the little ones and replant in the container just to 'stir' them up a bit. But they were soooo tiny that I didn't want to move them up just yet.
Key some of yours have two large leaves and mine are ALL one leaved with a tiny itsy-bitsy pin head leaf at the base of the big one. What's that about?
I know, they're sooooo tiny, it seems impossible, but Dale the Hybridizing Guru Extraordinaire (btw, I've never met her and she doesn't even know I exist) says pick 'em up and put 'em down. With a toothpick if you have to.
If you look above at the pic of mine when they are laid out on a white trash bag before potting up (at 1:49 am on Jan 25), you'll see that the smallest ones are one leaf+nub. In the next pic, the bottom right pot has the small ones.
Feb 11, 7:51 photo has that same small pot.
Some still have only one leaf + nub. There may be a unifoliate somewhere in the background of one of the parents.
well, they are basically coming out white or blueish purple, with varying degrees of frill. Some are one flower per stem, one had three, and most seem to have two that are sequentially blooming. Here's another white one. Like mom, but more vigorous and a bit better substance in the flower (thicker petals).
Rightee-o, funny you should ask, I just repotted them all yesterday. I really needed to pick up the Dale Martens 'Every two week' schedule! I had gotten too busy/lazy to repot, hang on ... I'll get a photo.
Growth since March 16, roughly 6 weeks ago. Boy, they aren't performing much are they? Really need to 'lift' them more. Perhaps some VF11, but they've been in the cookie box terrarium and haven't even dried out. Should I leave the lid off - allow them to dry more thoroughly and fertilize?
I had them in the clear box so they wouln't dry too fast before I could get to them again. But perhaps they want a little 'stress' to encourage them to grow?
hmm that's weird not much growth sense your "Mar 16, 2006
10:24 PM picture " Or is this enough ?
Does Keyring cover her's I forget ? I don't like to cover so they can get air circulation and need food. If they don't grow and not thirsty and need no food how will they grow properky is what I wonder ?
Maybe it's time to uncover and get them under lights !
How are all you cute pink babies ! And new pictures pretty please !
well they still look healthy, even if they haven't grown much.
The small ones definitely need to stay humid, but the larger ones could probably move to a semi-enclosed set-up... but if they were mine, I would still keep them all covered until they have a fairly decent-sized second leaf.
A super-weak solution of fert would probably be good.
Another thing that may be contributing is our weather. We literally had two full months of rain with only a few days of sunshine. Just the last 8 days or so have been sunny. My bedroom where these have been growing says rather cool even though it has the best light in the house. So night temps in the 40's and day temps in the 50's to 60's could likely be the culprit. Many of the AV's have tight centers and are only just now starting to normalize. It's not the ideal environment, but it is the best I have short of putting in central air and heat (not likely to happen in my lifetime LOL)
Yesterday after moving them up, I brought them out to my playhouse which I keep heated with a space heater. It stays at least 68º an higher and I have one of those mini indoor greenhouses that I could use, but I am trying to keep it as an 'isolation' place for new AV's and gessies.
I'll keep it covered for a few more days and then take the lid off slowly, allow them to acclimate and then start with some weak fertilizer.
I forgot to mention that the ones with the red asterisk were just taken out of the rectangle tray and put into cups, the others were the one's from 3/16
thanks for the advise gals! Looks like I had about 100% take on the seeds I sure hope they get big and flower so I can pass them along to the gessie junkies in this forum!
ok, back to the garden... have to fix the irrigation lines that Miss Sophia chewed last fall! Grrrr.
Thanks for finding this, Ki. I looked for a few minutes last night, but didn't have time to continue the search til I found it. I'll point Lin this way so she doesn't miss it. Think I'll read back through it to refresh my pitiful memory as well.
I believe these are the same seeds you sent me, are they not? White x K(something, something) purple? I have had one to bloom. It looked almost identical to Midas, I think it was. And several have buds on them now. Looks like one is going to be white. They'd have bloomed ages ago if I'd repotted and kept them watered like I should. I'm embarrassed to tell you that several are still growing all together in the same pot they were sown in. I promise to do better in the future... LOL And by future, I mean starting in a few minutes...here's a picture and as you can see, they need to be watered (and we won't even discuss repotting). I'll do that first thing today. :oP After looking at them when I took the picture, I think they all have buds. What do you do with the ones you don't care so much for? Trash them, give them away... You may have already mentioned that in this thread, but I haven't reread it yet. Now that they're this far along, I think I'll see how they bloom before I repot. But notice, the ones all crammed together are larger than the ones potted individually. How'd that happen? They were all sown the same day.
Look who decided to open up today! Looks like it's going to be very similar to the white one you posted above. Two buds on the stem, the second should be a few days behind this one in opening up. I'll get a shot when it's fully open, but I love to take progressive pics. :o)
I'm still quite new at hybridizing, so I certainly don't understand all the ins and outs, but the thing is, when you put down a leaf of, for instance, 'Cherry Pie', the plants that grow from it will be 'Cherry Pie', same genetic material as the mother plant you took the leaf from. When you plant seeds of 'Cherry Pie' x self (meaning it was pollinated with pollen from itself), then you will get a variety of blooms, leaf sizes and textures, etc. If you're trying to grow a specific cultivar of Strep, then you can only do that by division or leaf. You'll get lots of plants from seeds, but they won't be identical to the mother plant.
Now, those of you who know way more about this than me, if any part of that is incorrect in any way, please jump in, slap my hand, and correct me! LOL
and right as well on the whitexKRB seeds - they are probably the same as the ones I sent you. I kept one that was white, but with better characteristics than the white parent - bigger flowers, more than one open at a time, and it grew faster. I've since lost the plant though - I think I may have actually culled it. I've done a couple of major overhauls of plant inventory since...
I also find that the seedlings potted together in compots grow faster than the ones put in individual pots. It's not just that they bloom faster but the foliage also grows faster. I pot every type of seedling into compots. The first ones to move out are the non-micro sinningias as the tubers need clear room to grow, and it's just difficult to keep them evenly spaced in compots after a while. Everything else stays in compot form for as long as I can get away with it...
Oh good! I sure was hoping I was telling Gail correctly. I think part of the fun of growing from seed is that you never know what you'll get.
I really like this white one and will probably keep it. The bold, contrasting stripes in the throat are very pleasing to my eye. I know I won't keep them all, due to space limitations, but I won't cull any til I've seen them all bloom and decide what I like and what I don't. Since you've given your blessing on compots, there they'll stay til I have picked my favorites. Now I don't feel nearly so bad about it! LOL Would you like to see the rest as they continue to bloom? I really need to start a Flickr account one day...
don't forget to tag the plants as they bloom so you know what's what. Blue and white string, and another for a "best pick" perhaps? Or number them and take pics and note comments - two flowers open at once, flower smaller etc etc.
I'm just curious to hear if your results are similar to mine. I see that I noted (I don't remember any more, of course) that I even had one with 3 flowers open on one stem.
Apr 17, 2006, 9:09 PM
If I had the space, I would have put the rest in a group pot and grown them as an annual outside for the rest of the season.
I like the string idea. Thanks for reminding me to mark and take notes. I see you noted thicker petals on one of them. I've never paid any real attention to petal thickness, so that characteristic would be more subjective for me. Otherwise, color, number of buds per stem, number of flowers open at once, flower size, leaf shape and size, growth rate (though I've completely messed that up from the beginning) - anything else I need to take particular notice of? This is fun! Recall my saying I'm a science nerd? LOL
Oh yes, they're probably almost a year old now, and just now coming into bloom. Yours bloomed at 4 months, I believe you said. It's my fault, though, not a flaw in the seedlings. Not enough water or food, I'm certain.
I'll continue to keep an eye on them for a while, then, regarding the second blooms. I did notice on 'Kitten Face' that the number of blooms per stem really increased with the second and subsequent bloomings. Color, I would assume, doesn't really change much, does it? Perhaps slightly darker or more vivid, but still quite close to the first blooms?
I've been studying this seedling for a few days now, and as much as I like the bloom, I think the flower stalk is too short. With them planted all together, it's hard to get a good picture of it, but you can see that the one to the right is taller, and doesn't even have buds open yet. I know you said something about short flower stalks at one point. Is this genetic or cultural?
it can be genetic, of course, but someone told me that on streps it's a symptom of being too root bound, or inconsistent watering (no, don't comment... lol). Now, I don't know if my source is correct, as she was just repeating what she heard.
Inconsistent watering..well, nevermind then. LOL I'll try to do better and see how the next round goes. I don't know if it would be rootbound or not. In that pan pot with all the others, it might be, but then again, the one next to it is taller, and clearly it's in the same situation as this one. But if they stay that short, I don't like it.