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Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)
 January 19, 2006
10:07 AM Post #1986672
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Ironically, when my husband went to work for a tile manufacturer, we had no tile in our home. (Before he left the company, we did build another home and it resembled a tile showroom *grin*) Now that he works for a water heater manufacturer, I'm seriously considering changing to a tankless system ;o)
Our current water heater is only five years old (it replaced an ancient, sediment-filled electric tank that was here when we bought this house.) However, the new tankless models start around $500 and there's a $300 tax credit for putting one in. Not to mention the impressive, ongoing energy savings.
Last (and probably least) of my considerations: I'd also gain a huge storage closet in my laundry room, where the current tank resides - and I could *really* use that storage space.
Are there any downsides to going to a tankless heater? Any do's or don'ts to consider, from those who've been there and done that?
What about gas vs. electric? (The current heater is gas, but we live in the TVA area - so our electricity costs are far more reasonable than our natural gas prices.) |
mornin_gayle
Dubuque, IA
(Zone 5a)
January 31, 2006
12:29 PM Post #2012830
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Terry, you might want to post your question in the European Forum. Tankless heaters are more common over there.
Just a thought.
mg |
123rik
Miami, FL
February 14, 2006
9:29 AM Post #2044183
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Hi Terry,
We replaced our old tank-type water heater about 2 years ago. We installed a Tankless Water Heater. It has worked flawlessly since the day we installed it. The unit is very small and compact, yet provides an unlimited supply of hot water for our entire household. The model we chose is the Titan SCR-2 N-120:
[HYPERLINK@www.titanheater.com]
Since you are located in Tennessee (TN) you might need to install a twin setup. You should check out the site for more information about installing a tankless water heater: [HYPERLINK@www.titanheater.com] |
Sarahskeeper
Brockton, MA
(Zone 6a)
February 21, 2006
5:22 PM Post #2061151
|
My old water heater is 3 years past it's warranty date. I spoke to my plumber and asked about the tankless. $500 is very cheap, that must be a small one. I want to be able to run 2 spigots at the same time and the cost jumped to $2000, installed. That would include a new gas line and extra plumbing because the unit would be placed much closer to the points of use. Right now the old tank is at the opposite side of the basement.
It's worth it to me and I've heard no negative comments about them. They are also warranted for 20 years.
They are very popular in Europe.
Andy P
|
Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)
February 22, 2006
12:42 PM Post #2063319
|
Andy, your post brings up a good point - what are the pros and cons of electric vs. gas when it comes to tankless units? We already have natural gas lines in the house - they service the current water heater, gas range and gas dryer.)
But with natural gas prices jumping the way they have, I'm far more neutral than I used to be when it comes to gas vs. electric when it comes to my major appliances. (Case in point - we just had a our old gas furnace unit replaced with a new "dual fuel" heat pump (has a gas furnace backup unit.)
Back to water heaters - if the tankless unit(s) need to be more strategically positioned (our current tank sits at the far end of the this looong ranch-style house; but a new tankless unit could be tucked into a space in our hallbath, next to an air chase), then the gas lines would have to be relocated, too.
I had also heard that a two-unit or larger system is more likely to run into the $1,500+ range - I suspect some of the variance is due to installation costs, which vary by region. If the savings are as significant as many articles indicate, we could quickly recoup the price, whether it was $500 or $1500. |
Sarahskeeper
Brockton, MA
(Zone 6a)
February 22, 2006
1:01 PM Post #2063351
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Terry, Think about what fuel is used to produce your electricity. Most likely natural gas.
Why my water tank is at the opposite end of my basement is beyond me. It takes 2 gallons of water to get to the hot. Very annoying when you just want a little hot.
My gas line runs most of the way to where the new tank would go, for the furnace. I would have to install the new heater on an outside wall to vent. There is room in the basement bath.
The model I looked at was the Rennai (Sp.?)
Electric water heaters are very expensive to operate, if you have gas in the house go with gas.
Andy P
|
Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)
February 22, 2006
1:21 PM Post #2063403
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Electric tankless vs. gas tankless - there's THAT much difference in operating costs?
(Remember, we live in the TVA area, and enjoy some of the lowest electricity prices in the U.S.) I was a pro-natural gas person across-the-board, until I started comparing the comparative cost to operate some appliances. An electric tankless unit would have the added benefit of not requiring yet another vent to be installed through our roofline. |
Sarahskeeper
Brockton, MA
(Zone 6a)
February 22, 2006
1:32 PM Post #2063427
|
My electric is mostly from gas, and it's very expensive. You are the best judge of what works in your area. I didn't even know that there were electric tankless units. So there...
Andy P |
rootdoctor
Hartselle, AL
(Zone 6a)
February 23, 2006
4:49 PM Post #2066331
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Gas would be my choice,I installed a large one in Chicago,we piped it through the concrete floor to heat the room,that was 20 years ago,never had a problem.
How is your water?do you soften it,I believe most if any problems with tankless,come from build up in the lines due to hard water.But even then it is minor. |
AnniesWeePlot
Pennsauken, NJ
(Zone 6b)
March 12, 2006
6:50 PM Post #2108114
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Terry, thanks for starting this thread.
There was recently an episode on "Ask This Old House" on this very topic. I went to their website for more information and was a little surprised at some of the additional data there that was not discussed on the show, but, it still looks like an excellent option.
Here's a link:
[HYPERLINK@www.thisoldhouse.com]
On their site, they recommend only the gas unit due to the amount of electricity required for the other.
I watched the show where they installed a gas unit for a homeowner. The unit itself was tiny and there were specific requirements on where the unit must be installed, but all in all, it's a relatively simple job.
Considering how much is saved in efficiency and replacement costs... This seems a wonderful alternative for heating water if you already have a gas line. |
BuriedTreasures
Valrico, FL
(Zone 9a)
March 13, 2006
9:42 AM Post #2109336
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We seriously considered it on the remodel we're doing, and did quite a bit of research. We currently have 3 hot water heaters in the house, and losing one sounded like a good idea.
The problem we ran into, is that this one would be servicing the master bath, and a large soaking tub. We'd wanted it, as the 40 gallon tank didn't seem to offer enough hot water to run and maintain the heat, in a large tub. We found out that the tankless wouldn't help us in any way with this. The tankless work great on just about everything except tubs, not only from what we've read, but also from one of the manufacturers. They work well on faucets that have a 2.5 gpm flow. When you get to the flow of a tub faucet, it's too much for the tankless system to keep up with.
We're still considering it to replace other heaters, but the one that fillls the tub will have to remain big and bulky.
Chris |
jshmehr
Fresno, CA
(Zone 9b)
April 1, 2006
9:48 PM Post #2156626
|
There are Tankless Water heaters that can EASILY handle a tub. Of course the cost of such a unit is much higher since the BTU input and the Heat Exchange coil has to be larger to accomodate the higher flow while maintaing the temp rise.
Here's a link to a Gas Tankless Model that can handle a LOT of flow (4gpm@70F temp rise):
[HYPERLINK@boschhotwater.com]
Since there is quite a difference in Ground Water temps from place to place let's run the #s:
Typical Tub Flow Rate is ~4gpm
Comfortable Bath Temp: ~105F
105F-70F = 45F
So, as long as the Ground Water temp is as least 45F, this heater will accomodate 1 tub without any problem.
As far as effeciency is concerned, Electric is MUCH more effecient than Gas: 95% to 98% for Electric vs. 80% to 87% for Gas.
I am going to be installing a Bosch 250SX Gas Tankless Water Heater which is rated to replace a 50+ Gallon Water Heater & can handle 2 Major Appliances at the same time. |
AnniesWeePlot
Pennsauken, NJ
(Zone 6b)
April 8, 2006
10:25 AM Post #2173662
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jshmehr,
Would you mind posting back here during/after your install to let us know what was involved, how it went, and any pics you might have taken?
Annie |
BackyardZoo
Poquoson, VA
(Zone 7b)
April 13, 2006
4:49 PM Post #2187619
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We just built our house and installed 2 of the Bosch tankless heaters. We went with the natural gas version. The only problem we've had with them is that we lost the original vent stack cap and the one we replaced it with is not keeping out the rain water very well, so the gas doesn't want to light. So our fault and we just need to get a better cap.
But as to the heater itself - works great! I have a corner-style jacuzzi tub that it can fill to too-hot while I'm also running a load of laundry and/or dishes (off of the same water heater). If you're taking a shower, you'll get a quick pressure change that affect the temperature when the other appliances kick off or on, but it's usually not enough to either burn or chill you - just moves the temperature out of your ideal confort range for a second or two.
I'm not sure I agree with the electric is more efficient idea. Seems to me that electricity has to phase change in order to become heat, while burning gas automatically produces heat. But I'll admit I didn't do the research on that one (that particular task was my DH's and I had enough others on my plate whie we built that I happily left it to him :-) )
It really does save a bunch of money not having to keep a whole tank full of water hot all the time. Sorry I don't have any pictures, though. |
william1
Paplka
(Latvia)
May 27, 2006
4:40 PM Post #2322947
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Tankless water heater... Make sure if you opt for the electric type, that you have enough electric supply. These heaters are very efficient, but draw a huge amount of electricity when being used. Wire them correctly to the main fuse board and earth correctly... please do not take a chance with water & electric. Also make sure your water pressure is correct. There are two types. Mains fed. and pumped. Mains fed is fine if you have adaquate and constant water pressure. Otherwise draw your water from a holding tank you can easily install in the attic. Then you must get a pumped type that will actually increase the water pressure form gravity fed.
Keep up the info. we all need a help in hand... william. |
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)
July 23, 2006
12:47 AM Post #2536821
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Lots of good input on this thread! (Especialy good since I'm hoping to put a tankless heater in my 'shoffice' soon.)
So, Terry, what did ya'll decide to go with? And do you like it?
Shoe. |
Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)
July 23, 2006
9:02 AM Post #2537328
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Hey, shoe...we haven't decided anything. As usual, summer outside stuff is taking priority. Not to mention, the hailstorm last May has created the sudden need for a another roof, some window and skylight repairs, etc... |
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)
July 23, 2006
1:21 PM Post #2538182
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Oh m'gosh! Sounds like that hailstorm sure changed your priorities around.
Sorry to hear of all the damage.
Well, when I decide what to do in the Shoffice I'll post back here with results then. Wish me luck!
Shoe.
|
darius
Appalachian Mtns, VA
(Zone 5b)
July 23, 2006
1:30 PM Post #2538222
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I'm still considering these for my new home, so I'll stay tuned... |
Terry
Murfreesboro, TN
(Zone 7a)
July 23, 2006
2:50 PM Post #2538453
|
Well, the insurance will cover most of the roof. But (in typical Terry fashion), I've now got this bright idea to try to replace the carport with an attached 2-car garage where the carport now stands (using the existing concrete pad, and just pouring footings around it for the garage walls.)
So I'm hunting for someone willing to dig and pour the footings, then someone to frame and roof the structure (and roof the house at the same time), then we can do the rest ourselves (vinyl siding, garage doors, plus side doors and a couple windows, insulation and drywall.)
I'm hopeful we can do it as one project and spend considerably less than we would if we replaced the roof now, then later did the garage, ripping off part of the roof to cut in the new roofline, then re-roof that part ;o)
As Gilda Radner's "Roseanne Rosannadanna" used to say "It's always something!" ;o) |
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)
July 23, 2006
3:39 PM Post #2538604
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Wow! What a great project!
I'm sure you'll love (and benefit from) the garage (vs. carport). I know I'd love one! (Everyone needs some sort of workshop area.)
Don't forget to include a deep-sink corner...(with a tankless water heater) for scrubbing out all those plant pots and such!
Best of fortune to ya.
Shoe.
|
shorelady
Moorestown, NJ
August 27, 2006
11:36 AM Post #2664537
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Am switching to gas heat at the jersey shore...heater, a/c and tankless water heater. Was considering a gas water heater but would it be cheaper to keep it at electric and avoid all the venting that is necessary? Also what are your thoughts on Paloma, Bosch vs. Rinnai, Noritz. |
BackyardZoo
Poquoson, VA
(Zone 7b)
August 29, 2006
2:40 PM Post #2672176
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Personal opinion is that I'd look at the gas vs electricity prices in your area. Vents are simply holes in the wall at their basics - so they're usually not too bad to install (depending on your building and the heater location, of course). And the install cost of vents may be made up pretty quickly if gas is cheaper in your area.
As for brand, we're happy with our Bosch, but we've never used any other tankless. Our gas-line installer claimed to prefer Nortiz, but they are also a 'certified Noritz installer' or some such, so that could be only a sponsored-by kind of endoresment. I honestly don't know. |
stolik
pupkin
(Russia)
November 10, 2006
4:24 AM Post #2900006
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lacewing121
Highland, IN
August 31, 2007
3:09 AM Post #3920644
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A friend of mine also installed a tankless heater. I am SO glad to see that they can tackle the water output for a tub. I'll keep my eyes out for high BTUs for lots of flow... but would it be better if I installed two? My heater is 30 years old. It works perfectly, but it's starting to make me nervous. :-)
For what it's worth, I've heard the natural gas heaters tend to be higher in quality and last longer production wise.
It's also nice to see this product in the old US of A, since I hate tank style hot water heaters. Failure modes that include the probability of flooding your basement don't make me happy. |
Dyson
Moneta, VA
(Zone 7a)
August 31, 2007
5:23 AM Post #3920729
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The one I Installed (electric) is rated for a slightly warmer winter than we have here and I am anxious to see how well it performs this winter. So far throughout the summer, I have been very pleased with the performance. |
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)
August 31, 2007
9:15 PM Post #3923792
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Dyson (howdy!)...
What brand and size did you install? And is it 110 or 220? And didja do it yourself?
(I'm hoping to put one in the Shoffice so I can start canning again down here!)
Shoe |
Dyson
Moneta, VA
(Zone 7a)
August 31, 2007
9:36 PM Post #3923885
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Shoe - when the original water heater ruptured last spring (and flooded the house) I decided to go with a tankless "on demand". It will run on 110 or 220, and installed it myself. ***Note*** because of the hight current requirements, much additional wiring was required. I basically built a complete new circuit for it.
If you still have my number give me a call (if not D-mail) and I'll let you know about the problems I ran into on installation.
After the sun comes up I'll dig out the paperwork and get you the make/model. |
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)
August 31, 2007
10:59 PM Post #3924230
|
Thanks! I have room for a dedicated circuit if I need it.
Will be in touch!
Shoe |
lacewing121
Highland, IN
September 4, 2007
7:20 PM Post #3937459
|
Hey, I was reading the article mentioned here for the tankless heaters. Someone said that it took a very long time for the hot water to come on. So here's my question to those of you who already have a tankless... how long does it take for the water to heat up after you twist the faucet? How much longer than with a tank heater? For me it takes a few seconds for the water to heat up, but my tank is pretty old. I should replace it soon. |
Dyson
Moneta, VA
(Zone 7a)
September 4, 2007
10:32 PM Post #3938293
|
The tankless on/off is controlled by flow, as soon as the flow reaches the "on" point the water gets heated therefore the time before the hot water reaches the faucet is determined by the distance from the installed heater I.e. My main bathroom is only a few feet from the heater and the water is hot within a minute or so, however the other bathroom is at the other end of "la casa doublewide" and it takes about three minutes for the hot water to reach it.
NOTE: If you turn the faucet all the way on then you can be assured of enough flow to engage the heater. |
BackyardZoo
Poquoson, VA
(Zone 7b)
September 5, 2007
7:29 AM Post #3939006
|
Also note that the 'turn off' flow point is not really the same as the 'turn on' point. In other words, if you start the water flowing until it gets hot, you can then back it off to a trickle and it will stay hot - but if you STARTED with that mere trickle, its likely that the water heater would not have turned on.
I believe this is a precaution against leaky faucets - you don't want to waste energy heating water that is just dripping down your drain. |
MaryMcP
Phoenix, AZ
(Zone 9a)
January 27, 2008
11:19 AM Post #4460063
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We noticed our water heater has sprung a leak so will need to replace it today and are seriously considering the tankless style. I was hoping to find information about the install procedure, like how it went. Any body out there this morning to share their notes? Dyson???? How'd it go? We have gas and will buy a gas tankless. |
BackyardZoo
Poquoson, VA
(Zone 7b)
January 27, 2008
11:54 AM Post #4460202
|
We did our own install, mostly. Ours was new construction, but they would retrofit nicely. They have the same in/out pipes and gas line as a tanked heater (though I'd double-check the gas requirements - it might need a smaller/larger size).
Other than that, you need a support on the wall to hang it from - a pair 2x4 boards screwed into your studs at both top & bottom of the heater should work fine. I don't think there's any reason at all that the boards couldn't just go right on top of any sheetrock as long as you make SURE the screws hit your studs with some good-sized screws to hold the weight. |
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)
January 27, 2008
12:11 PM Post #4460263
|
Maybe it's different in different parts of the country, but I have a gas tank heater and was thinking of replacing it with a gas tankless one, and my gas line was not sufficient, it was going to cost me $2-3K extra for them to install a bigger gas line that could supply enough heat to run the tankless unit. |
june_nmexico
Albuquerque, NM
(Zone 7a)
January 27, 2008
1:09 PM Post #4460502
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We recently had a Rinnai tankless gas water heater installed in the garage, where the previous tank heater was located. Cost, including installation, was $2300. That was a bit higher than the original quote because of the line they had to run to the roof vent. Overall we're pleased but there are a few considerations.
The hot water pressure is considerably less than it was with the tank heater because, according to the installer, the output line had to be smaller in diameter. We've had to set the water temp to 140° so we can add enough cold water pressure to have a decent shower.
We don't have kids or elderly in our home but I'd offer a caution if you do. Once hot water reaches the faucet, it takes a bit longer than you think for it to reach its full temperature. There is a danger of scalding if you're not aware of that, especially at the 140° temp we are using.
It hasn't been long enough for us to track cost savings. I do love knowing I can at last have a hot bath that stays hot, and that I can do as much laundry as I please without running out of hot water.
June |
Green_DIY_Guy
Warren, VT
February 1, 2008
3:20 PM Post #4482890
|
Hi Gayle,
A tankless heater will be better than any traditional tank by about 20% per the DOE EERE site. The big thing is sizing the heater and making sure if it's electric, you have enough breakers, gas the line is big enough. Be careful you don't let people linger in the shower, now that it's not going to cool over time, people don't jump out... that will negate savings. Be sure to buy the heater from some one who knows how to zise it and sells the vent (if gas) The credit is no longer available on gas units, write your congressperson, as they might renew it. It does not apply to elec untis. I would look at [HYPERLINK@www.houseneeds.com] I had a neighbor buy one there and they helped them throgh the whole process
Forest |
Dyson
Moneta, VA
(Zone 7a)
February 1, 2008
3:36 PM Post #4482936
|
I have been generaly happy w/mine (electric). the only problem I have had is getting the temp set to the right point. If I am comfortable in the shower - it is too cold for the wifes bath, etc. other than that it has worked well.
The wireing was a challenge however I do like a challenge sometimes. (it may not be for all). |
Bubba_MoCity
Missouri City, TX
February 6, 2008
11:26 AM Post #4502250
|
Mine was gas. Installed myself - no problems. Previous post about finding studs is important. Biggest installation problem was the ovesized vent pipe that was required. Had to enlarge hole in the roof, buy pipe & roof jack , and install. Less than 1/2 day's work, overall to install. |
