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Hi everybody. Drdon suggested I use this forum for ideas that might help me solve a landscape dilemma. If this is better in "Curb Appeal" just tell me and I'll try that forum instead.
If you go to the Pool area of my diary, and then go to the bottom, you will see an unfinished area on the east end of the pool. The oak raised paths or beds were designed to mirror the semicircular windows and arches of the house. The dianthus will go, I don't like their look or behavior. I don't like the look of the unfinished oak. I thought about a cap of some sort on the oak posts, both to slow decay and for a more finished look. I also thought about some sort of stain. The grassy area in the middle leaves one with a feeling of openness and insecurity. I need to revise this area in a manner similar to the west side which, while not crowding the pool deck, still gives you some sense of enclosure.
The pool house has a fatal flaw, and that is an undersized hood for the grill. Grilling in the poolhouse is an exercise in smoke exposure. One thought was to move the grill outside and put in on a patio on the east end of the pool, maybe within some sort of low-wall, trellis, berm, or whatever around this east end grassy area.
The ideal solution will solve the two problems above, will tie aesthetically to the house, and of course, won't cost a lot of money. ;-)
And before someone asks about a fence, we don't have to have one. We're out in the country with a fence around the entire yard.
The design and construction are all my own. I appreciate any ideas anyone might have on this or any other area of the garden. Thanks.
Forgive me for following you around DG, but you ask great questions.
You've got an interesting dilemma, and you've left one problem for potential design solutions. You haven't provided an image (unless I've got the fatal flaw) of the area which would show what's going on between the poolhouse and the open east end of the pool with the semicircular beds. That would be a critical element to assess if you truly desire an elegant solution to the "smokehouse" and the Die-anthus.
A simple way to provide this information, in addition to a site photo, would be in the form of a plan view of your pool area and adjoining yard space. Surely (!) you have some drawings that you worked from to create this current landscape. A photo of that would sure do the trick.
I'm amazed at the foggy background of your pics! I was trying to appreciate the vistas or "borrowed scenery" but was stymied from every angle. Maybe you're next to a factory farm, or a strip mine?
Is there anything next door (to the east, or southeast) worth seeing, or at least not blocking the view?
VV, the poolhouse is hereby officially renamed the "VV Smokehouse" until such time as I can get that stupid grill out of there. Ha!
I added a pic from the southeast. I had pages of drawings and plans 4 years ago, but I'm sure they are long gone by now. From the berm to the west, behind the "smokehouse," to the one semicircular bed to the southeast, is a bed largely comprised of ornamental grasses... various Panicums, Miscanthus. You can see this in the new pic. The borrowed view to the south is one of pasture, so I like the grasses, it is not too unnatural. No strip mines or hog farms. It is a nice view, but the owner is willing to sell or develop so I don't feel the need to preserve the view to the south.
Our property is a narrow east-west rectangle, so it is preferable to direct the lines of site in an east-west direction. That's part of the function of the pathway and arbor to the west. Does that make sense?
Is your issue with the oak that the top edge is too rough looking (rustic) and it doesn't compliment the wonderful architecture of the house?
I can't see the bbq. Is it located under the shade soffet/ covered porch of the pool house? If it is, have you considered some ceiling fans that compliment your home design in this location to creat a strong updraft that will pull smoke up and away from people level while turbulating the air to disperse the smoke more effectively. I installed one close to our bbq (54in) and it really keeps the smoke away. Ours is out in the elements, but it is constructed for that application. I don't know which direction your prevailing winds come from and if the spot where the bbq is now is so protected from the winds that smoke collects in the area. If that is the problem you might consider the fans as they come in so many designs and can compliment or enhance almost any area. We also use them on our covered porch just to move air during our really hot summer months.
there are some really neat 'cap' treatments you could use on that wonderful oak. If the reason is that it is too rustic your options are basically limitless as far as a cap treatment to kind of streamline the existing wood without doing much work. The neat thing about it right now is that the wood has gray-ed and has achieved that 'go away gray' tone that is so inoffensive as to almost be invisible.
This a great way to use the tour. Absolutely gorgeous. Great job!
I like Don's suggestion of an outdoor rated ceiling fan. I can't see where the grill is either, but based on your description, that should help considerably at a very reasonable cost.
As far as the diantus goes, I noticed you have saponaria in another shot. I think I'd replace the dianthus with more saponaria. You'd stay in the same color range. A low growing campanula would also cover the top, and the blues would be pretty there.
Re the edging, there are a couple of options that I can think of. First, if you switched the diantus for saponaria, the plants would drape a little more over the edging, which would soften the line. The most costly option would be to replace it with stone to match the wall behind. You could paint it white to accent the house, or stain it to match the brick. You could also make it "disappear" by painting it a deep green.
A couple of strategically placed trellises, painted white to maintain theme with vines or climbing roses could help create a sense of enclosure without blocking the area off completely.
I had to chuckle at one thing. In the shot with the house, the light fixture is crooked. By the looks of it, it's the same fixture that we have on the front of the house, and ours is always crooked too. I swear I straighten it every week. Good to know it's not just us.
The BBQ grill is INSIDE the poolhouse, that's why you can't see it! Yeah, I know, it wasn't my idea. We have a ceiling fan in there, but so much particulate smoke builds up that it collects on the leading edge of the fan blades and throws the greasy stuff all around the walls of the " VV Smokehouse." There is a range hood, but it is not strong enough.
One issue with the oak is its rough/rustic look, yes. And the tops are somewhat uneven (hard to cut perfectly straight with a chainsaw!). If I could get a cap that looked right, especially if it would hide the unevenness of the top cut, then the grey color would be OK, since the decking on the back of the house has greyed to a similar shade.
The other issue is creating a sense of enclosure on that end of the pool. I have the feeling that I need some other landscape or hardscape feature between these two raised oak beds. It is just too open feeling on this end. I wanted to solve this problem before deciding on a cap, since one possibility might be to cap the oak with something that would serve as a bench or seating.
I'm adding a drawing at the end with one sort of solution. The patio would give me a place for the grill and I could solve the cap problem on the outside edge by making the outside oak edge a long patio bench. This would involve some grading, but I can handle a Bobcat. I'm still stuck on what to do around the outside of the patio. This wouldn't be a perfect solution...it is perhaps a little more labor intensive than I would want, the grill is farther from the "smokehouse" than I would like, and finally I don't really need another patio!
Thanks for taking the time to read, and, again, I'm open to any other clever solution.
Stacy, thanks. You were posting while I was typing.
Continuing the Saponaria around to soften the oak edges is a great idea, I'm slapping myself for not making that change two years ago! And I've got low growing blue Campanula poscharskyana ‘Blue Waterfall’ and Campanula portenschlagiana elsewhere, that would tie in nicely. Good ideas!
I noticed that this forum doesn't allow for posting pictures. This will be a significant limitation in the use of this forum for exchange landscape and plant ideas. Somewhere I've got some trellis pics from the Mo Botanical Garden I wanted to show you, Stacy, but nowhere to post...
Oops, it happened again. Stacy, are you thinking of trellises some distance behind the oak beds or right up against the back? I like trellises, I can do that without the regrading a patio would require...
Too funny - a couple of early birds this morning, eh?
I put in some Blue Waterfall last year, also to soften the edge of a stone wall. Should be interesting to see how it does this year.
What I was thinking with the trellis was this... If you look at the last thing you posted, the drawinng, a narrow one ( or another arbor) in the walk through between the two curved beds near the fire pit, and another right about where you have the word "grasses" at the corner of the pool deck near the pool house. A climbing rose/clematis combo would be stunning.
I've thought about adding a tab to my dairy of pics of things I'd like to try.
The bbq is INSIDE?...Well now the only solution is a restaurant type fan hood over the darn thing that sucks a huge amount of air and vents the smoke through the roof like a restaurant grill. I'm a Californian, so grilling is a year-round endeavor and is done outside. I can understand the logic behind putting one inside but there should have been some input regarding a vent hood given by your contractor/ architect on this project when the grill was drawn inside the building. I'm once again assuming, but it is a built in grill...correct? Because if it is a portable grill the solution is indeed to just move the darn thing...lol.
The grand symmetry of the curving planters really does warrant a entry/passage/archway/arbor that is in scale with the size of the open space between the beds and is architecturally in sync with the grandeur of the house on the side facing the pool. You've got a really tasteful and impressive design of the home so when choosing an archway or whatever you choose to do it would be a very good idea to keep in mind the large scale of the house. A small entry and the house will look like a condo for king kong, too big and it will detract from the absolute beauty of that side of your home.
I like the idea of trailing plants to soften and conceal the rough edge on the tops of the oak, and it seems from some of the plants you've already got in there seem to indicate that you intuitively figured that solution out on your own. If I may be so bold as to suggest a benchtop surface...consider the brick that the steps to the house are constructed of to bring that color and texture out into the garden. I don't know if that brick is also in front of the pool house, but it seems like it might be a little isolated in just one spot and with so much volume. A small benchtop of two with the same material might bring that color out away from the house and give you some additional continuity between that awesome stairway and some small complimentary accents in the form of benchtops...just an idea.
What a fabulous palette this space is. It must be fun considering all of your options.
It would seem fitting that something that is a compliment to stressbaby's really grand statement on that side of the home would make sense. You reminded her with your suggestion of more cascading plant material that she had already 'felt' that. I truly think were soon going to get our wings on this forum. As far as the posting of pics, I just open a second browser window to the person's diary and click back and forth it's as easy as scrolling up, clicking on a pic, clicking the back button, then scrolling down, then commenting. Two open browser windows basically allows for a quick response and encourages the poster to add more photos into their diary at the same time...it's a queer logic...lol. Yesterday I spent over 3 hours posting in my diary and I must admit it was a bit tedious so I can see why the diary entry of pics in the same way as we might post it to a thread allows us the wonderful flexibility to garner commentary and add photos that we might not have otherwise posted because of the tedium involved...lol. But when we need an answer, we'll post an entire movie to get to a good and satisfying answer. The way this forum is set up, our garden diary is the beneficiary of this as it kind of forces us to post more pics in order to get to a solution...
This little idea of yours is taking off. I think it's fantastic that the forum and the tours are leading to ideas, help, and dialog. There are so many spots in the garden that I will be changing this year that I'm sure I'll be doing the same. I've started a Problems tab in my diary just for this purpose. I'm still working on cleaning up my plant picture files and organizing them into folders to help keep things straight. The thing is that I haven't been in the habit of taking pictures of the ugly spots. I'm a girl - I like pretty things :)
I flip back and forth, too. I think it's actually easier that way, because I can look at other views and formulate my thoughts without having to keep hitting "back" on the brower. I use Mozilla, which lets me have two tabs open in the same window. Love it.
There's something a little vouyeristic about using the beds and blooms of other gardens, and using them to formulate ideas for my own.
OK, some weighing in from way (well, a little) east. I believe you wouldn't be posting if you didn't want opinions. Opinions are about the design, not the property owner. No offense is intended; debate/discussion is the idea, from which great ideas are born. I know nothing of your background/career/training, but the first thing most designers are taught is criticism "ain't about me."
I hope readers don't get frustrated without instant answers; part of why I participate in forums like this is to exhibit process of thoughts, evaluations, and generation of ideas that then are massaged into solutions. It sure doesn't mean I'm right and that's the only way! I hope this leads to SB taking a look at the issues/site with more ideas, and formulating an acceptable response.
OK, end of blather. I've been able to slowly (dial-up pace) reflect on the architecture chosen to be present (residence, the VV Memorial Smokehouse, and arbor). Per my background, what follows is some inventory/analysis. You have some dominant themes, and some that are defeating the overall integration of your efforts.
The white neutrality of most of the vertical surfaces is a simple foil to all your vegetation, and provides accent out in the landscape. Keep running with that.
I see brick used as an edging to walks and coping to the pool, as well as the base supporting the arbor. This is a trend you may want to keep in the solution you're looking for, and continue to knit together the northeast to east to southeast portion of the pool realm.
I see some sort of cap on the retainage to the beds in the foreground "as you come around the front walk approaching the pool area" and capping the brickwork under the arbor. Is this the same material? Cut stone? Unit paver? It is a good cool gray; it could be the cap to whatever retainage is kept or added at your east end work.
Finally, I'd not consider any other new materials. Construct the solution with "what brung ya".
My breakfast is calling. I'll leave you with one concept. Consider strongly keeping the functional solution to the grill location near/with the functional uses of the poolhouse, instead of splitting it off into the east end. You have the (Palladian?) style arches in your architecture. You also have a pool (think: water behavior). You could combine arched "enclosure" in the vertical plane off to the east of the pool with some horizontal manifestation of waves or ripples emanating and reflecting from the pool.
First, there is a range hood, but it is undersized. Oh yeah, and now it doesn't work because for the second time the smokehouse has been hit be lightning and the circuitry is fried. And the contractor was given the wrong specs on the hood and the brick opening is only 3 inches. Ouch. My wife wants a dryer in the smokehouse to dry the kids' towels while they swim. Maybe I can use the opening for a dryer vent.
DrDon, getting the scale right is a challenge with this house. Drifts of plants which might normally number 3-5 are more appropriately numbered in the dozens.
What if I curved a trellis or "ramada" all the way around that end in a long, sweeping curve, left the grass the way you did, drdon, and put the grill out there and built the firepit of brick?
Again, more posts while I was typing! I'm in no big hurry on this... besides, I've made as much progress this morning as I have in the past year.
VV, you understand my concern with moving the grill too far from the smokehouse. I've got plenty of deck space right next to the smokehouse... I could build a brick grilling area, countertop, etc.
And I'm totally with you on not adding any more materials. In my mind I may already have too many differernt types of materials. With the exception of the pool deck, horizontal surfaces are brick or aggregate (the driveway is also aggregate concrete) or a combination.
The arbor cap is unit pavers. The raised beds are gray Versilock-type concrete blocks.
VV, are you suggesting that the solution also use the swimming pool as a reflecting pool as well? The arbor could have done that but it is simply too far away from the pool for its reflection to be seen from the pool deck.
Yikes, undersized vents...there's a bummer. I'll bet that little nick on the architect/designer/engineer's record won't soon be forgotten.
I like the idea of doing something that will serve to define that space. Your ramada idea seems like a solid one indeed. I do agree ostensibly with VV (nice to meet you) regarding staying with what brung ya. If the propose ramada is to be constructed on the decking is there a way to get it somewhere close to some earth where you can plant some vines to soften it up and create more interest/ color? If the location is over concrete on all sides and not adjacent to any soil, can you hire out a saw cutter to cut some openings in the decking next to the vertical supports for the proposed ramada allowing for some vegetation? I've got a really neat circular saw (basically a skilsaw) that is constructed especially for sawing concrete and I can actually cut a radius as tight as 3ft with it due to the smaller diameter blade. I use it all the time cutting slabs of concrete to make removeable tile slabs for various uses.
As the architecture of your home is really something. How many sqft is the residence itself?
Go, SB, go! This is what it's about. Hi dd; I'm imagining volleys from west and east (and north if Stacy chimes back in), homing in on Fulton, MO. Any time now, someone will "find the range." Did a little detour to dd's diary; did you say somewhere you are/were veterinarily related? Small world; I'm smack dab embedded in thoroughbred horse country here. Was formerly very closely tied to it, and my wife still is.
Back to subject...SB sez:
"What if I curved a trellis or "ramada" all the way around that end in a long, sweeping curve, left the grass the way you did, drdon, and put the grill out there and built the firepit of brick?"
and then goes on...
"VV, you understand my concern with moving the grill too far from the smokehouse. I've got plenty of deck space right next to the smokehouse... I could build a brick grilling area, countertop, etc."
The curve of the trellis/ramada could represent a ripple emanating from a point in your pool. I wasn't thinking you want a new structure on your existing pool deck, nor so close that it would reflect in the water. But you might.
I was imagining a string of arches (creating a trellis or ramada) wrapping from the smokehouse through the east yard and back to the residence somewhere. "Explode" your arbor design into a flatter plane, and see what you think. Maybe it creates a corridor, frame, and "wall" between the pool and distant views. Walk around and imagine how much of that area you'd like to "embrace" with this curtain, roofed/canopied/ramada-ed or not. It could become another circulation pattern, to provide a variety of experiences without entering the pool deck area. Or a utility and maintenance access way. Placed out in the yard, this could then take on as much or as little vegetation as you wish (drdon's concern).
Thinking of the foreground to future "divider" of space (as there may be ample to work with): that could be more beds of color, again reflecting ripple patterns, falling away from the pool area. Can anyone recall (or better, post the image) the pebbled pool with the sheaf of wheat design from Beatrix Farrand's seminal work at Dumbarton Oaks in Washington, DC? This is what I imagine, grander in scale, applied to the horizontal ground between the pool and the "divider" of space east. Not literally a pebbled pool, but that series of shapes/forms. Could be some seatwalls to deal with the grade change; could be the forms of the beds; could simply be the arrangement of plants. It also begins (depending on your love of strict geometry or not) to derive a little of a parterre feeling, which you've imprinted on the west end landscape. You could do worse.
Aha! moment...beautiful! That's why I posted! A ripple garden!
I have seen Farrand's Pebble and Water garden and I think I get it. Ripples, not of water but of borders, "ripple" garden edges. There is a slight southeast slope to the ground, I can slope the "ripples" off into the yard. That could work. Seats on the outer edge of the oak to view the "ripple garden." Leave the grill next to the smokehouse on the pool deck and build it into a brick cooking area.
What if I didn't go for anything vertical on the outside at all, no trellises or ramadas? Vertical grasses could provide the vertical element?
I'm off to a swim meet with the oldest kid. I'll scratch something out and repost later for feedback.
nice idea, I don't know of any rules (threw the book out long ago..lol) as to why vertical elements have to be constructed. It makes perfect sense that they can be grown instead.
Sounds less expensive as well and that always helps.
