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Invasive Plants: Wisteria

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judycooksey
Pocahontas, TN
(Zone 7b)

April 6, 2006
12:34 AM

Post #2167029

I wish I had known what I know now... it's climbing up the side of the house, under the porch and trying to get in the windows. If you just have to have this plant, be sure it has lots of room to run and you plant it far away from your house .. maybe a couple of acres away!!

Judy
zone5girl
Painesville, OH
(Zone 5b)

April 18, 2006
1:30 PM

Post #2199546

I'm actually trying to get mine to grow. I've already killed 2 and just purchased my third. I'm going to try to train it as a standard. We'll see... :-) Tamara
Equilibrium

April 19, 2006
2:33 AM

Post #2201501

The Chinese Wisteria is well documented as being invasive and it frequently does exactly what judeycooksey described. The Latin name is Wisteria sinensis. Unfortunately Japanese Wisteria is as bad or worse. The Latin name for Japanese Wisteria is Wisteria floribunda. There is another popular Wisteria out there that is mild mannered and equally as beautiful, Kentucky/American Wisteria. W. frutescens (synonymous with W. macrostachya) also has several lovely cultivars that are available. W. frutescens is much better behaved than its Chinese and Japanese cousins.
W. http://plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch?keywordquery=wisteria frutescens&mode=sciname&submit.x=12&submit.y=7
Kathleen
Panama, NY
(Zone 5a)

April 21, 2006
9:16 PM

Post #2209143

I don't have any wisteria, and have no desire to have wisteria, but thought I would share what a landscaper once told me. He said if you decide to plant wisteria, consider first if your descendants will also desire wisteria, as they will be dealing with it unto the fourth and fifth generations.
judycooksey
Pocahontas, TN
(Zone 7b)

April 21, 2006
11:57 PM

Post #2209483

I certainly can believe that!!!

Judy
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

April 22, 2006
1:26 PM

Post #2210787

I used to have a wisteria trained to a tree form in my front yard. It quickly got out of control so I cut it down. Now I have wisteria sprouts coming up everywhere in my lawn. I mow them down with the lawn mower everytime I cut grass. That's been going on for about 4 years now, and it is still coming back.
gooley
Hawthorne, FL
(Zone 8b)

April 22, 2006
10:55 PM

Post #2211986

The feral Chinese Wisteria was in bloom here a few weeks ago. It is very common along old railroad cuts, near old homesteads...major pest in North Florida. (Only a few areas around here have kudzu, fortunately, and wisteria isn't quite that bad by comparison.) Just say NO; the American varieties aren't as wildly vigorous but they aren't pest plants either. I forget which herbicides are used in attempts to control feral wisterias here...Roundup maybe, or some of the brush-killers favored by power companies...

Mark., not quite as bad as the so-called mimosa trees though
Lucky_P
Hopkinsville, KY
(Zone 6b)

April 24, 2006
9:40 PM

Post #2217540

My dad spent years doing constant battle with the wisteria that my grandmother had planted 60 years ago. I remember on one of my last trips home before he passed, he took me out to the edge of the garden where he showed me the stark, dead trunk of one wisteria vine, as big around as the calf of my leg, that he'd managed to kill by cutting it off and treating repeatedly with Tordon, every time it threw out a new shoot.
Personally, I think kudzu has more redeeming properties - at least it's edible.
cclarkkent
Mary Esther, FL
(Zone 8b)

May 8, 2006
4:31 AM

Post #2258583

I keep my Chinese Wisteria in a pot to make sure it doesn't spread to anywhere. I cant believe that a company sent it to me by mail order. The company I ordered it from never informed me that it was considered invasive, until I researched it online and discovered before I put it in my yard. Its a horrible, evil wicked plant that should be slashed and burned.
mark333
Thornville, OH

May 12, 2006
4:47 PM

Post #2272503

I guess i disagree with everyone...i know it's invasive, i've grown it before, but since i've moved i wouldn't mind more of it, i don't mind mowing it in the grass or training it...if anyone has small starts of it let me know, my Mom wants some more too...mark perhaps we can trade something!
MaryMD7
Chesapeake Beach, MD

May 12, 2006
5:16 PM

Post #2272575

Mark, with all due respect, the invasive plants forum is probably not an appropriate place to be seeking more asian wisteria.

Please keep in mind that the problems which asian wisterias cause are not limited to your yard. Yes, you may be willing to try to control it in your yard, but will subsequent owners? And, even worse, asian wisteria isn't just aggressive in the home landscape, it is it highly invasive and destructive when it escapes to natural areas.

If you and your mother really want wisteria, then I strongly suggest investigating obtaining the much better behaved and not ecologically harmful native wistiera -- wisteria frutescens. W. frutescens is increasingly readily available in the retail trade. An added benefit is that it usually blooms more readily in cultivation that the asian wisterias do.

escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

May 13, 2006
4:13 PM

Post #2275495

One of the dangers with asian wisteria is the long runners. You may think you have it under control only for the roots to run underground into the neightbors yard. They may not control it and let it come to seed when it pops up over there. Once that happens, it's too late. It's going to be everywhere!
Equilibrium

May 13, 2006
6:35 PM

Post #2275772

I don't know quite what to say other than to echo MaryMD7's sentiments. I don't think it's appropriate to ask to trade for plants such as Butterfly Bush, Bamboo, Burning Bushes or any other plant that is a documented invasive species and/or known noxious weed. When one does this, one is promoting the spread of same to even more natural areas and the tax payer gets stuck with the clean up bill.
gooley
Hawthorne, FL
(Zone 8b)

May 15, 2006
5:42 PM

Post #2282361

Well, there's bamboo and bamboo. The so-called "heavenly bamboo" is Nandina domestica, related to barberry and not a true bamboo. Down here that's way invasive, laregly because birds eat its fruit and the seeds everywhere. Real bamboos...well, there are clumpers and runners (and a few in between). Most temperate species are runners and will be locally invasive, spreading by roots, but they very rarely flower and set seed (and usually the bamboo clump is monocarpic, flowering once and dying). They're invasive in the sense that they can take over a patch of ground, but not in the sense that they spread readily in other ways. There are few cold-hardy clumpers...the clumps just get bigger over time with those.
indirt
Hico, TX
(Zone 7b)

May 18, 2006
6:45 AM

Post #2291623

I agree with cclarkkent that the mail order catalogs should be more clear about how the plants they sell spread. And they shouldn't be allowed to sell documented invasive plants at all, unless it is to the country from which they came.
So many of the invasive plants have a Japanese or Chinese hint in their botanic names, but some come from Europe.
Many plants are what I call "sterile" plants. A lot of people like to use these plants in their yard b/c they don't invade, they don't make a "mess" or do anything. And they don't. They don't feed the birds or butterflies native to our areas. Most of the time they don't even provide the cover that our native birds prefer. This allows the European starlings and European sparrows to proliferate. We have so many beautiful native birds and they are so badly in need of support. Isn't that sad?
There are some neighborhoods that I have driven through where a bird of any kind is a rare sighting, their yards are so "sterile".
4paws
Citra, FL
(Zone 9a)

May 27, 2006
11:09 PM

Post #2323248

Equilibrium wrote: "I don't think it's appropriate to ask to trade for plants such as Butterfly Bush, Bamboo, Burning Bushes or any other plant that is a documented invasive species and/or known noxious weed. When one does this, one is promoting the spread of same to even more natural areas..."

I echo this sentiment and think perhaps Dave's might have a list of invasives for folks to check before trading, though maybe it's in the trading primer, and I don't remember reading it. Since joining in February, I've traded for, or with, at least three invasive plants and I might have done more, except purple loosestrife came up in a thread, and prompted more research. In looking at plant trades, I see offers for invasives that are listed in many states.

Certainly the information shared here has added a new dimension to my gardening.

My husband isn't going to like it when I dig the wisteria up. I'm sure it's the wrong kind. Planted it when we bought the house two years ago because we were so taken with the wisteria around Santa Clara College when we visited there. Maybe he won't notice that it's gone.

Hope it's not too late to nail it.
This sure adds a new dimension to gardening. It's a rare thing to deliberately kill something I've purchased (not cheap, either), planted, and enthusiastically waited for blooms from! Learning to research, research, research.
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

May 27, 2006
11:23 PM

Post #2323282

I was at a friends house this morning and I hate to say it but, I tore off the seedpods of her wisteria and put them in my pocket so I could bring them home and throw them in the trash. I dont think she will ever notice.
4paws
Citra, FL
(Zone 9a)

May 27, 2006
11:34 PM

Post #2323311

So sneaky! lol Good for you!
I just learned that wisteria is not listed as invasive in CA! What a surprise, since we're the same zone.
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

May 28, 2006
12:08 AM

Post #2323382

It may be because CA is drier. Wisteria thrives in a moist and humid climate.
4paws
Citra, FL
(Zone 9a)

May 28, 2006
12:20 AM

Post #2323421

Well, that's my good news for the day, since the buddelia (sp) has to go. I find it odd to call this area dry, considering it rains endlessly during the winter months. But summer is dry.
pegdog
Winchester, VA
(Zone 6a)

June 16, 2006
6:24 PM

Post #2397718

Anyone heard of "Austrailian" wisteria?? Just planted it. I will pull it up if it's as bad as the others!
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

June 16, 2006
11:02 PM

Post #2398659

Is it Millettia megasperma ? I just looked it up. Never heard of it before. I wonder if its even related to the common wisterias.
Equilibrium

June 17, 2006
9:24 AM

Post #2399944

I went for a search for Australian Wisteria and pulled up a bunch of Comfort Inns for people traveling. Eeek. I probed a little bit more and read a few documents and it would appear some Australians are referring to Wisteria sinensis as being Australian Wisteria. Maybe the Chinese Wisteria has been around so long that they are referring to it as Australian?

If the vine you have is Millettia megasperma which escambiaguy found... doesn't look like anything I'd want growing by me. It's a member of the Fabaceae family which raises my eyebrow a tad and I found a few links with descriptions of it-
http://www.davidmcminn.com/ngc/pages/exoticvines.htm
http://www.davidmcminn.com/ngc/pages/nativevines.htm

Do you have the tag or can you call the nursery where you bought it and ask them what the Latin name of your vine is?
cclarkkent
Mary Esther, FL
(Zone 8b)

June 17, 2006
11:06 AM

Post #2400001

OMG.. home dept is selling Chinese Wisteria ... cant miss those purple blooms..
Equilibrium

June 17, 2006
11:19 AM

Post #2400014

Yes; so is WalMart, and Lowes, ShopKo, and Menards... and every other big box store out there. Might as well toss in K-Mart too because they had it last year although I haven't been there this year. Oddly enough, most of the privately owned nurseries around here are selling it too.

For what it's worth, I picked up a great Wisteria macrostacha 'Clara Mack' from Lowes a few days ago. If you pick through their garbage, you can sometimes find a few nice plants. Which reminds me, I'd like to get that plant in the ground today or tomorrow. Speaking of highly invasive plants, has any one noticed the rows and rows of Japanese Barberry out there for sale this year? This one nursery I frequent had something like 16 different cultivars available and people were buying them like popcorn. I saw one woman walking through all of them and passing them over to her husband to load into their carts (notice the plural on that) and they appeared to be taking one of each. They had them in 1 gallons, 2.5 gallons, and 5 gallon containers for sale.
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

June 17, 2006
3:30 PM

Post #2400677

I did see some native wisteria "Amethyst Falls" for sale at Target. They were on a little trellis stuck in a pot.

This message was edited Jun 17, 2006 11:28 AM
LadyCleo
Plainfield, NJ
(Zone 6b)

June 22, 2006
3:23 AM

Post #2418748

OK, so this gardener has a sadistic, vengeful streak in her. My only close neighbor violated all sorts of town ordinances and common courtesy by building an ugly wooden carport about 10 feet off of my property line. It's in the back, mostly unused portion of my land behind the garage where we seldom even visit. When I spoke to the neighbor about the overly close proximity to my border and the possible problems with drainage it may present, they rudely blew me off and said that the "builders" knew what they were doing and it was really none of my business.
So...I happily planted 2 Chinese Wisteria on the very edge of my property where it is vigorously growing toward the unsightly new carport. Within a few years, it is sure to cover their ugly construction, provide me with long distance beauty and fragrance, and totally block the view of a ghastly structure. Sometimes, poetic justice prevails.
;-)

This message was edited Jun 21, 2006 11:29 PM
judycooksey
Pocahontas, TN
(Zone 7b)

June 22, 2006
5:27 AM

Post #2419116

Oh my, I just don't know what to say ... one thing for sure there isn't any fragrance and since you are so far north of us, perhaps it will not give you a problem.

Judy
terryr
Bureau County, IL
(Zone 5a)

June 22, 2006
10:02 PM

Post #2421607

And since it will be growing on their structure, they are free to cut it back to the point of their land. If they're truly some neighbors from heck, they just might spray it with brush round-up. Then you might also be soo lucky, like escambiaguy, and get little sprouts coming up all over. If they violated all sorts of town ordinances and common courtesy, why wouldn't you contact the zoning official in your area?

Judy, back about 60 years ago, my grandma's BIL brought her some from the farm she grew up on. Grandma lived here, in IL, zone 5. When the guy doing the mowing cut it down on grandma's request, it was a never ending saga of baby wisteria's. Why anybody would knowingly plant one is beyond me.
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

June 23, 2006
12:00 AM

Post #2421992

LadyCleo, you may have these in your lawn shortly. I've been fighting these for three years.

Thumbnail by escambiaguy
Click the image for an enlarged view.

LadyCleo
Plainfield, NJ
(Zone 6b)

June 23, 2006
1:15 AM

Post #2422173

Perhaps you are all correct, and my act will come back to bite me. If so, I deserve the return of bad energy. Since these neighbors have never cut down anything of their own volition, including wild grape vines, locust trees, or raspberry canes, I sincerely doubt that this wisteria will get any attention from them. I have planted daffodils, forget-me-nots, forthysia and day lilies on their property as a kindness without them ever noticing. If the wisteria sprouts in my yard, so be it. It is in a far back corner where it will do no harm. As far as using and herbicide--no chance. When they first moved in 15 years ago and I pointed out that the brush Gus was walking through with shorts and sandals on was poison ivy, he did nothing but thank me with a blank look on his face. I pulled and burned it for them for years without them noticing. As far as contacting the athorities, I prefer not to contact the law unless some harm is being done to a person or creature. Making enemies with a neighbor is a bad thing. Plant a beautiful, if invasive vine is another.
Judycooksey, sometimes wisteria does have a lovely fragrance here in NJ. We notice it at the garden center on sunny moist mornings when it is in bloom on our trellises there. Has anyone else noticed a fragrance or lack of it? Interesting how plants behave differently in different places.
I do apologize if I have offended anyone with my post. I guess I got off to a bad start here. My bad.
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

June 23, 2006
1:30 AM

Post #2422223

The real danger isn't really if they take over a corner of your backyard. The real danger is if they set seed. The seed pods look like beans and birds do sometimes eat them and drop them in places they shouldn't be. If they get in the forest, then they start climbing and strangling trees. That is why they are considered invasive.
terryr
Bureau County, IL
(Zone 5a)

June 23, 2006
2:02 AM

Post #2422403

LadyCleo, I don't think you offended anyone. We were just trying to let you know what the inevitable is with this plant. Burning poison ivy is highly frowned upon. Burning poison ivy plants can send microscopic droplets of uroshiol into the air. Anyone who has an allergic reaction to poison ivy, can then get the rash even though they've never come into direct contact with it. Calling the law on somebody who isn't following codes and regulations, is not doing anything wrong. That headache might come back if or when you ever sell your home.
Are you new here? If so, welcome!
judycooksey
Pocahontas, TN
(Zone 7b)

June 23, 2006
2:15 AM

Post #2422447

LadyCleo, welcome to Dave's!!!

Judy
GreenLife

(Zone 10b)

June 26, 2006
1:21 AM

Post #2433245

I was really conflicted about my prized wisteria. It was among the first plants I placed in the garden so it had a lot of sentimental value. For the longest time, I pictured having the perfect wisteria that I could enjoy in my garden. It was only recently that I began taking an interest in indigenous landscapes and it didn't take long to figure out how destuctive something as poetic as a wisteria can be. I've read many anecdotes of wisterias monopolizing a garden and even sending down runners distant from the mother plant. As important as wisteria was to me, the idea of having wisteria encroach on spaces where it's not welcome was enough to tear down the wisteria.

But on another note, I wish more people would see how damaging invasive plants can be. There was this little old lady who lived next door and it was plain as day that she loved gardening. She planted all sorts of pretty plants that she took good care of. The problem was that once she moved out and non gardening neighbors moved in, all it took was a little bit of time before all her plants started spreading like wildfire. Our neighborhood is full of passion flowers that are clamouring up trees and shrubs and they are indestructible. Even in my own yard, they're difficult to keep up with because over the years, they've adapted and are drought tolerant. There's also a smattering of invasives growing in any unused spaces that can be traced to her yard. What I know all too well is that we have to garden responsibly and think in terms of long-term ramifications. Even if I were to be really vigilant about watching over my wisteria, if I move out or die, the wisteria can easily take a life of its own.
terryr
Bureau County, IL
(Zone 5a)

June 26, 2006
1:37 AM

Post #2433303

GreenLife, isn't it weird when you get it? You think you know what you know, only to discover that you don't know a thing.
GreenLife

(Zone 10b)

June 26, 2006
1:45 AM

Post #2433338

terryr,

It is very humbling. No doubt. There's just so much to nature that I didn't know until I started paying attention to the land.

judycooksey
Pocahontas, TN
(Zone 7b)

June 26, 2006
2:21 AM

Post #2433624

We just need to communicate!!!! I can rip out your poison ivy or oak for you... but you must turn around and rip out the "cow itch" for me. Don't you think it is remarkable that I'm not allergic to poison oak or ivy but cow itch will cause me to take to my bed itching like crazy.

Judy
4paws
Citra, FL
(Zone 9a)

June 30, 2006
10:11 PM

Post #2452473

terryr wrote, "...isn't it weird when you get it? You think you know what you know, only to discover that you don't know a thing."

Then there is also that feeling of desperately needing to share what little bit I know with others.

I live on an Indian reservation and no one (so far) believes me about the buddleia. They say it has to be native because it's been here for as long as they can remember (say 25-50 years) and back then, no one ever bought nursery plants. But the wind blows, birds fly, and the river flows, so seeds go everywhere. It saddens me to see them in bloom on the roadside now.

I'm glad my wisteria is no threat here, so far as I've discovered (please tell me if someone knows otherwise), but I will be sure not to let the seeds go.
4paws
Citra, FL
(Zone 9a)

July 13, 2006
11:57 PM

Post #2502931

Would somebody please link this thread to the one in planting trading offering wisteria? Just please, somebody, tell those people...

sigh...can't be me. I'm too sensitive, despite my outward demeanor of toughness. I want to trade plants, yet whenever I look at that forum and see trades such as this, I feel so sad.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/625455/#top

This message was edited Jul 13, 2006 4:59 PM
caganimalover
Joshua, TX
(Zone 8a)

October 28, 2006
1:34 AM

Post #2857447

Is there any way to know which kind of Wisteria you have? I have looked at different pictures of leaves and can not tell the difference.
Wisteria are beautiful and heavenly fragrant here. I grew up with wisteria all my life (don't know what kind). I have been trying to get it to grow where I have lived now for 20 years and it won't live. I currently have a 3ft in a pot. The only plants invasive at my house are poison ivy, oak, and briar weeds! I can barely keep anything else alive with our ground horribly compacted dense clay, even with adding ammendments (compost, hay, leaves, mulch, veggies, fruits, corn cob grit, manure out the wazoo, frertilizers, gypsum, etc, etc) over all the years I have been here. ~~~ Carol
Equilibrium

October 28, 2006
4:26 AM

Post #2857894

Purchase the non-invasive Wisteria frutescens or W. frutescens cultivar from a reputable nursery.

You could also take photos of your leaves and post them over in the identification forum we have and chances are pretty good someone will be able to tell you whether or not you have an exotic invasive or not. It's tough telling the difference.
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

October 28, 2006
4:54 AM

Post #2857929

Equilibrium, hi, I have been away a long time. Trying to catch up on months and months of missed yakking. I noticed that you said the Butterfly Bush was invasive. I have had one for about 14 years and never any trouble. Are there different kinds? I was also told that the "clumping bamboo" would not be a problem in my area. But I do know about the other kind! And, oh! The wisteria. I love the scent but it takes over everything down here plus attracks giant bees! Believe me, the last thing I want is ANYTHING that grows on a runner or one more invasive plant on my property! I can't keep up getting rid of what was left by previous owners!

Thanks for any info. Don't know if this should be a different thread or not.
Equilibrium

October 28, 2006
5:04 AM

Post #2857937

Hey Mollie, how be you! Buddleia is Buddleia is Buddleia. There's a thread here somewhere started by somebody that is titled the Butterfly Bush has to go or something like that. It's here in invasive plants. That might be a good thread to read for you as if my memory serves me... it doesn't a lot lately... that thread covered the basics. If you have that plant, you might want to seriously consider digging it up and bagging it to put out with the garbage.

Asian Wisteria is most assuredly beautiful but I'd have to agree with how judycooksey started this thread regarding those plants. For me, the native Wisteria blooms better anyway and it is considerably better behaved.
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

October 28, 2006
5:09 AM

Post #2857946

Equilibrium, Thanks! I will check for the Buddleia thread. I have no use for anything invasive! And I didn't know there was more than one kind of Wisteria. Guess everyone around me has the naughty kind!
Equilibrium

October 28, 2006
5:12 AM

Post #2857952

Many people around me have the naughty ones too so don't feel bad.
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

October 28, 2006
3:32 PM

Post #2858751

Mollie, do you deadhead your buddleia regularly? It becomes a problem when its seeds get everywhere, so if you're deadheading yours regularly before it has time to set seed that could be why you haven't found seedlings everywhere (either that or they're winding up in your neighbor's yard and you just haven't seen them!). It's also more of a problem in some parts of the country than others (as is the case with many invasive plants)...although with your warm temps and nice amount of rain I'm assuming that would be great conditions for it to spread out of control!
4paws
Citra, FL
(Zone 9a)

October 29, 2006
4:05 PM

Post #2862180

Burn Buddleia!
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/580143/
Mangle Mimosa!
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/599628

(then hussle over to plant or seed trading, and see all the trading that continues on, with nary a thought...sigh)
caganimalover
Joshua, TX
(Zone 8a)

October 29, 2006
5:08 PM

Post #2862338

I guess I need to post a picture of the wisteria and find out what kind it is. Also I have what I thought is a butterfly bush I got from my mom who grows everything. Her's is not invasive and mine doesn't do anything. Barely lives in my ground. Actually the last one I had in the ground died. The one I have now is in a pot, but still hasn't grown much and NEVER has bloomed. Maybe I'm lucky if these really are the bad plants. ~~~ Carol
notgrnjean
Southern, NJ
(Zone 6b)

October 29, 2006
6:06 PM

Post #2862486

caganimalover, I don't think you should risk planting the potted wisteria. I used to love it, too. Childhood memories. I didn't realize many, many years ago that there was more than one kind. I'm not even sure the native wisteria is even sold anymore! This is part of what I wrote in another thread about a little wisteria plant that I planted, oh, maybe 15 years ago but kept chopping it down because it was always trying to crawl under the siding and over other plants:

"Yesterday I started digging to plant the Amelanchier. Only a few shovels and I ran into wisteria. I am sure it's Chinese because that is where the roots were heading. I had been routinely cutting this monster down for years, This summer a friend and I cut out the "stump". I thought I was finally finished with it. There were a few small viney leaves that came up after the extraction, but I hand applied RU and thought that would be the end.

Wrong, The underground roots were massive and extensive laterally as well as deep. I traced each one to get it out whole. (I had read here that nothing could be left behind.) I ended up not digging but excavating a huge area, in a few places making holes so deep that ground level was above my knees. I gave up on two big roots in very deep holes because I had hit clay and only went about another foot after that. Is there any hope they will rot? Three feet down, the last of which is clay? "

I do believe that those remaining roots are going to surface again, though it may take a few years. Keep wisteria as a fond memory.
4paws
Citra, FL
(Zone 9a)

October 29, 2006
10:19 PM

Post #2863147

my, my...

What evil lurks beneath your yard, notgrnjean!

It's not supposed to be invasive here, but I've been eyeballing the one I planted when we moved in two and a half years ago. It hasn't bloomed yet, but it's put on some growth.

(I just nailed the last buddleia, which I bought in the spring having been told by the grower it was a native type - no such thing for CA. No remorse, 'cept I'm sorry I spent the money, since buying natives is not cheap!)

notgrnjean
Southern, NJ
(Zone 6b)

October 30, 2006
12:34 AM

Post #2863500

4paws, I hope that is my only past indiscretion that is buried out there. I will avoid that side of the house on Halloween night!

I think that it takes a few years for wisteria to bloom, maybe because all its energy is going into subterranean growth. Perhaps you could place one of those underground barriers that I've read about for bamboo - just in case.
4paws
Citra, FL
(Zone 9a)

October 30, 2006
3:27 AM

Post #2864017

Nah, I'm just gonna nail it. There are plenty of interesting things I can grow.

Your story has the gist of a fifties sci fi flick.
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

November 3, 2006
9:14 PM

Post #2878959

ecrane3, No, I don't deadhead my Buddleia. I did when I first got it but have sort of let things go the last few years. The school I taught at 4 bushes that were there for at least 20 years and they never self-seeded. And, believe me, maintaince didn't do any deadheading! They cut them back about every three or four years. And my brother has them in St. Louis with no problem. Now I have lousy soil but he doesn't. We gave my dad who lives in Ohio one because he loved it so and it was the only thing that ever died on him. It didn't make it through the winter. I bought it as a "Butterfly Bush" and have looked at all the pics and it is definitely a Buddleia. I don't know what to make of it!

Nobody mentions the Muscadine vine and it grows wild down here and is almost as bad as Kudzu! But people still plant it! And I still go through my woods killing it. I don't care if it is native! It chokes the life out of the trees.

Funny, funny world we live in! But I will definitely check the "invasive" list before buying plants - even the so-called "natives."

notgrnjean
Southern, NJ
(Zone 6b)

November 3, 2006
9:37 PM

Post #2879017

MollieB, although I've only been seriously investigating for a few months what I might plant, it is quite discouraging to find that almost all commercial endeavors large or small sell invasives routinely. That won't change until we consumers become more educated and don't buy invasive stock. If sellers get stuck at the end of season with ever increasing leftovers of burning bushes, butterfly bushes, vinca, etc., less with be ordered in each successive year. If demand for non-invasives increases, more will be stocked each successive year. Practical business decisions, that's all it is.
4paws
Citra, FL
(Zone 9a)

November 3, 2006
10:50 PM

Post #2879166

Right on, notgrnjean.
Just 'cause we don't see it seed in front of us, doesn't mean it isn't somewhere down the road.

We consumers have more power than we often accept the responsibility for.
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

November 8, 2006
7:24 AM

Post #2893419

Oh, please do not misunderstand me! I am in full agreement with you. Frankly, it seems that just about anything that grows on a vine is invasive where I live. Wild strawberries have taken over my yard and clover. When my first garden failed because I was trying to plant my Yankee garden in the south, I went gung ho for the "Natives". Well, I quickly learned that a lot of them are awful! And by native I mean they were growing here when the Europeans came over. So now I search for native and endangered or rare. I have quite a few books on what were in the eastern forests when the Indians lived here. I live in the foothills of the Blue Ridge. The poor part not the gated community part! :)

What I don't get is why the government still allows plants to come into this country given the problems that the southeastern states have had with Asian and South American plant and animal life taking over! Not only will I not buy, I will destroy at every chance! My list just keeps getting longer and longer though!

I have this huge clump of tall grass in my back yard. When I bought the house there were two of them. I thought they looked dumb where they were and looked up what they were. A friend wanted one of them. Well, it took a large tractor, pick-up truck and two broken logging chains to get that sucker out. The larger one remains and is getting bigger. I discovered it on the undesirable list after reading this thread. "Miscanthus"! I already hated it and now I really do but don't know how to get rid of the stupid thing. But it is also listed as a native grass on many sites. I don't know nor care if it is native. It has to go. Any ideas?
4paws
Citra, FL
(Zone 9a)

November 8, 2006
2:18 PM

Post #2894016

Poor Mollie.
Fortunately I learned about miscanthus after I bought it, but before I planted it. Thanks, folks here!
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

November 8, 2006
8:21 PM

Post #2895122

Yes, this is one thread I am really going to stay on top of! I feel terrible that I passed that monster on! I had been thinking of putting an ad in the paper that anyone who wanted the other one could have it if they could get it out! Thanks to you all, it will not be passed on! One way or another, it will be DEAD!
terryr
Bureau County, IL
(Zone 5a)

November 8, 2006
9:25 PM

Post #2895350

Mollie, next spring when the Miscanthus starts to emerge, spray some Round-Up on it. I got one that way. About mid summer, it was pretty mushy and my husband went at it with the spade. There are a lot of native alternatives for the Miscanthus.
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

November 8, 2006
9:58 PM

Post #2895451

Thanks, I wondered if Round-Up would handle it because it is HUGE! When do you mow it down. I just found out that I was supposed to be doing that! Boy, I have a lot to learn!

Any suggestions for native grasses in zone 7b would be greatly appreciated also. I am reading so much conflicting advice!
Equilibrium

November 8, 2006
10:16 PM

Post #2895521

What are you reading that is conflicting?
terryr
Bureau County, IL
(Zone 5a)

November 8, 2006
10:25 PM

Post #2895553

Since you really don't want it, I'd be mowing it down now. I'd probably wait till spring when it's actively growing to apply the Round-Up though. Grasses provide some winter interest, so it really isn't necessary to cut them down in fall. I've never mowed any of my grasses, I don't want to compact the soil around the plants. I just used my pruners and cut them down. I did a quick search, using Native Grasses for South Carolina...here's a few that came up.

http://www.scnps.org/articles/grasses.html

This one looked interesting

http://www.carolinawild.com/welcome.html

http://www.scwf.org/articles/index.php?view=167

There's also an Indigenous forum here at DG where you might want to ask there. Hope this helps somewhat!
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

November 9, 2006
12:16 AM

Post #2895845

It seems all of the wisteria I see in nurseries lately are the native variety "Amythest Falls". At least that's one thing they are doing right.
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

December 2, 2006
6:02 PM

Post #2962100

Equilibrium

I keep reading to plant native and that is what I really would like to do. Then I turn around and it is on a list as being invasive or a trouble plant - don't plant it! I think it was here that I read the Butterfly Bush was bad. Well, I have had one for years and my county extension recommends them. But some lists say they are invasive. Well, I planted one 16 years ago and I still have just one and no one (6 houses on a 2 mile looped road) else has any. So how invasive can it be?
Equilibrium

December 3, 2006
12:37 AM

Post #2963119

Common names Mollie... common names. They'll get you every time just like they used to get me every time. I try real hard to use common names when I can or when I know them to post in the threads but for myself personally, I've stopped using them completely. Far too confusing and I ended up planting plants that were not what I wanted here at all. .

Let's take Barberry for example. Do you know how many of those there are out there? There are the Barberries that are documented as being invasive and then there are the mild mannered Barberries that are indigenous. You almost have to go by the Latin name if you don't want to get stuck buying and planting something that you won't want in the long run.

What judycooksey was referring to was probably a Chinese Wisteria (Wisteria sinensis) or Japanese Wisteria sometimes referred to as Florida Wisteria which further muddies the waters as we start assuming it is indigenous to Florida (Wisteria floribunda) and those are both Asian plants. The North American indigenous Wisteria (Wisteria frutescens) as well as ALL of its cultivars would be "safe" for you in my humble opinion although there are native plant purists who will not use cultivars in their landscapes. Well, I'm not a native plant purist unless I'm working in a natural area.

Regarding the Butterfly Bush, same deal. Most of the most popular ones are most certainly documented as having naturalized or as being highly invasive and destructive to natural ecosystems when they escape cultivation. Those would include all of the exotic introduced species such as Buddleia davidii also frequently spelled Buddleja davidii and:
B. alternifolia
B. lindleyana
B. saligna
B. asiatica

BUT- there are several Buddleia that are mild mannered Texan and southwesterd natives of North American and that list of Butterfly Bushes would include:
B. marrubiifolia
B. racemosa
B. utahensis
B. sessiliflora
B. scordioides

For where you live, just as where I live, there are no Butterfly Bushes that are indigenous for us regardless of whether they are exotic aliens or NA native Butterfly Bushes.

Now regarding what ever list you are using, know the creator. Who created the list of plants to which you are referring?
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

December 6, 2006
2:20 AM

Post #2972635

Equilibrium, I get my list of what to plant in this area from the Clemson County AG ext. list. They train the Master Gardeners and do soil tests, etc for SC. I am trying to remember where I read about the invasives. Actually I think it was on Invasive Board where some one had put up a link to a list the Federal Governenment had banned or considered invasive. I am also very familiarl with the Florida Government lists of invasive and banned plants. I used to live there. Whenever I check out a list for something I try to make sure that it is a US government list of the County Ex. of a state. Does that answer your question?

I will say that when I got into gardening of this size I didn't know anything about cultivars! Or Latin names. I now realize how important they are. But I still have plants that I don't know what the cultivar is. I let a newbie landscaper help me. I don't think she knew much either!
Equilibrium

December 6, 2006
3:39 AM

Post #2972890

Ah, I've been zapped by my county extension office before. Mine is still recommending Fraxinus spp., Ulmus parvifolia, Acer platanoides, Alnus glutinosa, Phellodendron amurense, Pinus nigra, and Robinia pseudoacacia. And, you can go to their website and click on links to where they have specific recommendations of where they should be used. So sad. I no longer bother with lists created by our County Master Gardeners. There are some extension offices that have really great Master Gardeners who have kept abreast of environmental issues but, ours don't appear to have done so. Our extension office is more focused on turf, roses, tomatoes, crafts and composting. I do give them credit for one thing, they have removed Bradford Pears and Burning Bushes from their list of recommended plants.

I honestly don't know why your County Extension Office would be recommending any of the Buddleia that are exotic because their ability to naturalize is well documented. I also don't honestly know why I haven't heard of any County Extension Offices that have agreed to help battle destructive plants by voluntarily minimizing the spread of invasive species. I suppose I could see them recommending some of the Buddleia that are indigenous to other parts of the country because I can't think of any extensions offices that are pro-native plants per se although I'm sure there are some out there.

Now about those cultivars... boy did I get myself in trouble with many of those and I did it again this past summer with some Loosestrife which I bagged and pitched before I planted them when I went online to check the plant out. I can't tell you how much money I've lost ripping out cultivars of exotic invasives a few years ago that were allegedly "sterile".
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

December 6, 2006
5:44 PM

Post #2974298

Yes, I have had experience with Loosestrife. I got lucky on that one though. As to my county extension, I guess I should have figured that one out. I live in a state that leads the nation in heart disease, STD's, teenage pregancy rates, school dropout rates, etc. Our school test scores are always in the bottom 3. I am not native to the state but have lived here for 30 years after living 30 years in other states.

It comes as no surprise that their list is not exactly cutting edge when it comes to the envirnment. I won't even go into the various trouble parts of the state have had with drinking water because of things being buried or the government overlooking what our industries dump into the water. Yeah, all the laws are on the books but the courts just really "don't have the time" to bother with them.

So where do I go for the best info?

Thanks!
Equilibrium

December 6, 2006
11:23 PM

Post #2975286

We have frequent boil orders around here because of the sheer numbers of Canada Geese and Bambis. Otherwise, our water is so so.

National Wildlife Federation has a site that offers a rather comprehensive listing of plants per state if you use their drop down menu and click on your State then click on a radio button below to choose the type of plant and click on go-
http://www.enature.com/native_invasive/

Just a suggestion but you could begin creating your own list by researching the native plant communities that exist in your county. You can start with organizations such as this-
http://www.scnps.org/

I began creating my own lists. There may be a research station around you that you could contact to ask for lists. They can be a wealth of information.

Then maybe start looking for nurseries such as this-
http://www.carolinawild.com/

Look at what plants these types of nurseries are offering for sale and then insert the Latin name into a search engine and see if it's a fit for your state and county. I have found that the list provided by nurseries that are 100% native and located in my immediate area have some really great ideas that are tailored to my area.
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

December 23, 2006
8:16 PM

Post #3021377

Equilibrium, Thanks! I belong to the NWF and have the eNature site bookmarked. I am on it all the time but am usually looking up animals or birds or something I found in the woods. I never noticed the list you are talking about. I will definitely check it out...as well as the others you suggested. I appreciate the help!
Equilibrium

December 23, 2006
8:23 PM

Post #3021381

Hey Mollie! Glad you like the starter list.
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

December 23, 2006
8:25 PM

Post #3021385

Holy Cow, I checked out the scnps link and in April they are "branching out" and having a native plant sell in my dinky little town that most natives don't know exist. I printed it out real big and am putting it on the bulletin board! Thanks again! I am excited already!
Equilibrium

December 23, 2006
8:29 PM

Post #3021389

Uh oh... Mollie's husband is going to hate me for posting that link!

Don't forget that at many native plant sales you can pre-order... tee he! I always pre-order when possible and still end up writing an additional check from my husband's check book.
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

December 23, 2006
8:43 PM

Post #3021403

OOHH, goody, thanks for the tip, Is it too early? :) I only have 4 months! :)
Equilibrium

December 23, 2006
8:53 PM

Post #3021431

You'll have to contact them direct and ask if they allow pre-orders first. And no, it's not too early if they allow pre-orders. Tell your checkbook to forrrrrrrrrrrrrgivvvvvvvvvvvvvve me.
MollieB55
Landrum, SC
(Zone 7b)

December 23, 2006
9:12 PM

Post #3021472

I am sure this summer this summer it wil :)
Equilibrium

March 31, 2007
8:12 AM

Post #3339106

Well Mollie! What happened to your check book ;)
wilsonam
Troy, VA
(Zone 6b)

April 8, 2007
2:26 PM

Post #3368837

Can some one give advice on the best way to eliminate the asian wisteria? We bought a house that's had it for maybe 15 years? We killed a big part of it by drilling holes in it's base & pouring concentrated roundup in it, but it's got skinny runners under our deck... Have the same problem w/ artemisia, but figure that is better posted elsewhere. (Made the mistake of pulling it then tilling the soil. Problem got much worse... Roundup isn't preventing it, wondering if best thing to do is cover w/ black plastic...) Thanks!
escambiaguy
Atmore, AL
(Zone 8b)

April 8, 2007
2:32 PM

Post #3368849

I wished I had an easy answer for you. I have some runners in my lawn that I have been mowing for about five years. I was hoping this year it would finally be exhausted, but there are more sprouts popping up now. My only suggestion is to use Brush-B-Gone rather than Roundup, it works better on vines and woody brush.
Equilibrium

April 8, 2007
2:38 PM

Post #3368860

Here's what I'm going to do. I have two big honkers that I bought that were on a trellis leading to my front door. The label is still on them that claims they are Kentucky Wisteria- wrong! Anyway, I cut them back last fall once I started taking a close look at what I really had bought from Home Depot. Too late in the year to deal with them as the air temps were far too cold by then. This spring, I plan on placing a tarp behind each side of the trellis once the plants begin active growth. Tarps really help to avoid drift and overspray. Then I'm going to hit them up with Ortho's Brush B Gone. I might have to hit them up again two weeks later but after that they should be pretty well toast.

I ordered two replacement plants from a reputable source. They really will be Kentucky Wisteria.
pegdog
Winchester, VA
(Zone 6a)

April 18, 2007
2:12 PM

Post #3405237

This has been very informative. Thanks all.

I planted Austrailian Wisteria last fall ... 2. One died. Do I understand that the Aussie type is a bad one?
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

April 21, 2007
6:08 PM

Post #3415913

Do you happen to have a Latin name? The plant that I've heard called Australian Wisteria is Hardenbergia violacea which isn't a wisteria. For real wisterias I've heard of Chinese, Japanese, and American but not Australian so if it's a Wisteria I have no idea which species it is.
pegdog
Winchester, VA
(Zone 6a)

May 11, 2007
8:48 AM

Post #3485812

Hi, ecrane3 - nope no name but no matter. Both of them died so it's my luck! No wisteria, even though I love it.
gardenmart
Saugus, MA
(Zone 6b)

May 15, 2007
1:14 AM

Post #3497942

my neighbor has killed three small wisteria in an attempt to get one to have even one flower. Here in New England, there are runaway wisteria, but up here on our windy hill, some things simply don't prosper. Also, I have never seen Buddleia davidii reseed itself. Our winters may be too cold for this.
We have an office building down in town that has a wisteria that has been trained as a standard and is kept in beautiful condition year after year. The historical society built a support for a huge dead wisteria branch that ran along the porch of their building. I told them it was dead, but apparently someone hoped against hope and built the supports. I noticed that it was taken down this spring.
Wisteria is not for the weak gardener. You have to be prepared to prune like crazy. and you're right if the gardener in your house before you was like that and your're not, you are in trouble.

mellielong

mellielong
Lutz, FL
(Zone 9b)

May 27, 2007
6:36 PM

Post #3541878

Just wanted to show everyone how nice the native Wisteria can be. This is the cultivar "Amethyst Falls". It's only had a few blooms, but each year I get more. When I first planted it I didn't realize the sprinkler wasn't hitting it. So I can say it is very drought tolerant. Now, I make sure to water it every now and then when we're in a dry spell. It hasn't gotten very tall at all; in fact, I wish it would get a little bigger!

Thumbnail by mellielong
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Equilibrium

May 27, 2007
8:28 PM

Post #3542161

Beautiful! Absolutely Beautiful. I ordered two and have them in the ground. There are a few other cultivars I'd really like to get my hands on. These really are show stopper plants. Great photo!

mellielong

mellielong
Lutz, FL
(Zone 9b)

May 27, 2007
10:41 PM

Post #3542573

You know, it smelled really good this year, too. Amazing how plants thrive when they get some water! I had it planted a whole year before I realized it wasn't getting anything but the rain. I don't know how it didn't die, but that's one benefit of native plants. I'm trying to grow it up an oak tree, but it insists on growing away from it. I'm threatening to get out there with a staple gun.
Equilibrium

May 27, 2007
11:22 PM

Post #3542709

A staple gun? You wild woman you! Get the staples that are 1". They have smaller out there fore sale but the longer ones give the plant a little bit more room. How do I know this? I stapled Virgin's Bower (Clematis virginiana) to a brush pile once. I wanted it to go one way and it kept trying to make a break for the other direction. I won.

mellielong

mellielong
Lutz, FL
(Zone 9b)

May 27, 2007
11:27 PM

Post #3542730

In the battle between me and Mother Nature, I'm often on the losing end. Maybe I can win this one!
Equilibrium

May 27, 2007
11:31 PM

Post #3542750

I normally lose too.

I used my husband's staple gun. It's pretty powerful. First time I shot out of it, I was like wow. I couldn't help but think a person could do a lot of damage with one of those. It felt really good stapling into wasted buckthorns. One thing that took me a bit of getting used to was how to hold it farther away from what I was stapling so I didn't choke the vine. I screwed up quite a few times until my husband came out and showed me how I could rest it on something. Practice a little bit or else you end up sinking the vine into the tree. Those staple guns have a lot of force.
rjones8194
Independence, LA
(Zone 8b)

June 7, 2007
7:10 AM

Post #3585624

Hello, I'm new to these forums so forgive me if this has been covered. One eco-friendly way to get rid of a lot of invasive plants is brush goats if you can have them in your location. We fought wisteria my ggm had planted over 50 years ago that had spread thru the woods and were strangling everything it touched. We burned, dug and everything else with no success. My DH finally put his goats on them - they're crazy about wisteria it seems - it was gone completely the following summer and it's never showed back up. (This was a 25 acre plot of land that had the wisteria all over it. ) Luckily there are very few plants that are poisonous or harmful to brush goats and they'll eat just about anything. *L*
Equilibrium

June 7, 2007
11:40 AM

Post #3585847

May our world be filled with brush goats! I've heard many people using them to control quite a few invasives so I know there is validity to your comments.

I like goats. I think they're little sweeties. Can't have them here though.

Welcome to you *L*!
pegdog
Winchester, VA
(Zone 6a)

June 7, 2007
12:52 PM

Post #3586043

Welcome! Maybe there's a market for "renting brush goats" for weed and invasive control. Someone should...
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)

June 7, 2007
1:52 PM

Post #3586225

There is a market for renting goats out here--we have big problems with fire danger in the summer because of all the dried up grass on the hills, so there are some people who do rent out goats to come out and munch up all the dried grass so it's not as much of a fire risk anymore.
pegdog
Winchester, VA
(Zone 6a)

June 7, 2007
2:06 PM

Post #3586255

That cracks me up! ROTFLMAO Of course someone has thought of it!
rjones8194
Independence, LA
(Zone 8b)

June 8, 2007
4:08 AM

Post #3589638

Well the goats are pretty darn handy with the wisteria but right now my biggest battle is with winter creeper. The previous owners of the house we purchased had it planted under and around every thing in my yard. I can't use the chemicals or sprays for health reasons. I can't use the goats because we have a lot of azaleas which to my bad luck "are" poisionous to goats. Any suggestions??
Equilibrium

June 8, 2007
5:32 AM

Post #3589848

Euonymus fortunei (Winter Creeper) is a tough cookie but it is one that if you keep at it, you can get. Deadhead it so that birds don't spread it. That's really important so you don't create more work for yourself or for others. The seedlings are easy enough to yank out of the ground by hand. You're going to have to dig out the mature plants though. It doesn't exactly slide out of the ground like butter but you can get it out if you are persistent because every little piece left behind won't come back to haunt you. It's not rhizomatic. Just keep at it and you'll get it.

Rodeo doesn't have the same surfactant that RoundUp has and it's the chemical I prefer to use around here but AquaMaster is similar. You might want to read this and reconsider using chemicals-
http://www.litzsinger.org/research/lee.pdf

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