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Here is my list as promissed ...In fact ALL of my Jm's survived last winter... but these are just the named cultivars All were 2-4+ years old most being 4+ and planted last summer and fall ( I firmly believe that larger, older plants with well established root systems have the best chance to survive this zone's winter conditions)... Most are in somewhat sheltered areas...all are planted out in the ground...NOT in pots ...some are VERY exposed...all thrived with but a couple with slight die back on a few top branches ...and that may have been from last summers heat/sun on newly planted cultivars ...not necessarily winter. We had little snow but a mild winter. Only about a week of single digit below zero nights( -5 to -10) and mid teen days ( aropund 15 for highs)...but that period was without snow cover which is significant since snow insulates from cold and is i believe beneficial in this area!! Most of feb was in the mid 20's days and mid teen nights. I had NO early budding on any of these varieties even during warmer winter spells ( early March) and most broke bud in early to mid april... a good sign for late frosts... Email me personally with any questions and feel free to post your results.
aka shigitatsu sawa
Some spellings may be wrong didn't check 'em LAZY huh ;>)
My JM in zone 5b are just starting to swell their buds, so I can tell who is living and who is not. December was mild here with little snow. January was completely snowless and one night and day the temp was 0 F (coldest day all winter) with no snow cover and 60 mph winds...windchill about -30 F! The ground no doubt froze deep that day. February the snow started (and seemed to never end) so the plants were well insulated at that stage. Some of Dave's list also did well this winter including:
aka shigitatsu sawa
Additional ones growing here that were also OK included:
Those that DID NOT do well included:
I have the following ("~" means approximately, my best guess to current age):
Acer shirawasanum Aureum’ golden full-moon maple, potted, new this year
Acer conspicuum ‘Phoenix’ red snake-bark maple, ~ 1yr sapling, planted, new this year
Acer palmatum varieties:
‘Crimson Queen’ ~ 9 yrs old, dissectum red, planting bed overwintered several years very well
‘ Sango Kaku’ ~ 9 yrs old, coral bark, planting bed, likewise
‘Kagiri nishiki’ ~ 9 yrs old, planting bed near house, likewise
‘Itame Nibuki’ ~ 3 yrs old, potted, very lopsided plant, one winter did well
‘Mizuho Beni’ ~ 3 yrs old, potted, good shape, one winter, did very well
‘Viridum’ staying in pot on front porch, new this year
‘Beni Otake’ ~ 3 yrs old…planted, dead, most likely from drought rather than winter
‘Bloodgood’ ~ 2 yrs old…potted, damaged, most likely from drought
I am posting to this to keep it up front...please post your results as you get them ...I willl probably know from here in about a month and add about 30 additional cultivars to the list if all goes well ... fingers crossed...This will only work if you guys from this zone post to this thread. I will be adding it to the GW as well as another Jm site. For me this will be a good test winter... about 2 months where it did not get above freezing 1 month of +10 to +15 days and 0 to -12 nights with no snow cover . Also similar weather with 12" of snow for about three weeks and finally two severe ice storms ...add to that a VERY early fall 15 degrees in Oct...all in all if they make it through this winter they will likely make it through any ...(the only thing we didn't have is -20 to -25 below weather but that has not happened since the 80's and it was only for one or two nights.).. So far all my trees look ok budded and healthy ...one month and counting ...David
Most of mine are buried under 5 feet of snow! I hope they don't become torn to bits as the snow melts and slumps! This has been a VERY hard winter on my JM. I expect it will be late April before the snow is melted and I can ascertain if they made it OK. Mind you, our temps have been relatively mild...only once did it drop to 0 F! Spring can't come soon enough!
David, how soon you forget the winter of 1993-94. It was a little before my gardening time, but I clearly remember -75 deg windchills and still having to attend classes at U of I. Seems like the next generation is truly a little weaker as they actually canceled classes 1 day this year in Champagne.
Still not too many in the yard this winter, but many to go into the landscape this season. I'll post my results. Pretty similar temps and healthy appearances here to what David posted.
So far all mine are looking good, two of my three new baby ones which I have had about a week now, are beginning to leaf out up near my light cart. We are predicting 60 degree weather tomorrow [happy dance!], so they will go out for some sunshine while the warm weather lasts. I'll be checking the outdoor trees again this weekend, the buds are swelling. I'll get some pics of the leaves opening on the new ones to give you hope for Spring.
Our winter is mild compared to yours, but it was "normal" for us in terms of a couple of months of freezing temps at nite, with days mostly in the 40s. We have four seasons, but they are not extreme, except for summer which is very humid.
I'm also zone 7b, not quite as extreme as some of you, however, we had snow on Thursday, that's just melting today. In the ground & doing well-Asahi Zuru, Aconitifolium, Iijima Sunago, Scolopendrifolium, Green Mist, Garnet, Viridis, & Inaba Shidare. Also doing well, in containers-Germaine's Gyration, Jiro Shidare (this one survived being gashed by a falling garden tent, during an ice storm), Kinran, Shigitatsu Sawa, & Spring Delight.
It was 63 today and beautiful. It has been mid sixties all week, and it is supposed to be 71 tomorrow :)
Some of my trees' buds are swelling, and a 'viridis' at the nursery will probably leaf out by Monday.
It was a beautiful day, not quite as warm here, but I put a full day in weeding, raking stray leaves, & building some new beds by the fence-covered w/ brown paper, humus, peat, & compost. I'm not sure what to plant there yet, because it's low & often wet.
I DO need to take (&post) some pics, just have to charge the camera & find my computer cord. Not only am I guilty of not photographing my garden, but the kids are not being photographed either, I missed the school play last week...
Hi all well I hoped to post by now but I will have to wait a bit ...This winter/spring will really be a test thats for sure ...we have now had two weeks or more of 70+ degree weather and everthing (practically) has either bud burst or leafed out...but now they are predicting some night time temps in the upper 20's and one night mid 20's for 3-4 nights YIKES we will see what happens since most of mine are planted out ...I will cover a few and the smaller ones but most will have to fend for themselves ...I expect a big disaster but I am the consumate half empty guy...A few did not make it through this past winter for sure but most did some with some winter die back MOST are virtually perfect...those I will mark now before the pending doom... a couple are defintly KAPUT either my fault ...hebicide use too close... or too wet from the spring standing in water on top of permafrost for days (I guess I could call that winter damage)...one is a mystery OOOOOOO !!! ... but overall most made it through like troupers ...As I said I will post A.S.A.P. my complete list of 70+ trees and seperate out the winter from the pending disaster ... OH BTW My zone has changed to 6a but after this winter they may change it back to 5b ;>) David
Yes the frost/freeze is not unusual for april at this time ...waht was and is the heat summer like temps ARE unusual ...in fact last year my JM's didn't break bud til around april 8 or so...this year many are leafed out ...so it's really the WARM spell that is the problem here not the cold which is normal basically this past 6 months has been screwy with two ice storms sverwe cold w/o snow cover thenm 14" of drifted snow that lasted for almost two monts and continued severly cold weather and then temps for three weeks in the 70's and 80's...we usually get some of these but not all and not one after another or many at the same time ... this has beeen the worst spell of weather since the 80's and with this warm spell I proclaim this the WORST!! David
I did though have the wifesky take a bunch of photos of the leaves of probably 30+ cultivars ... I will post them once I edit and shrink them...who knows what they will look like next week ;>(((( David
I may be digging some things up if our predicted lows occur this coming weekend. Sigh. I have a spot to bring everything in, but the pots are getting big as I've potted things up! I am most worried about my brugmansias, which I just planted this past weekend. Temps here are predicted in the low 30s, but they will lose leaves at higher temps than that.
Well, I think I was overly worried, everything looks fine. In the ground, I have Aconitifolium, Asahi Zuru, Garnet, Green Mist, Inaba Shidare, Iijima Sunago, Scolopendrifolium, & Viridis. I have glazed containers for Germaine' s Gyration, Jiro Shidare, & Shigitatsu Sawa, & still in black nursery pots-Kinran & Spring Delight. I also have a Tiger Rose coming next week.
I got spring fever last week & did a little underplanting in the glazed pots-Germaine's Gyration already had ornamental grass. 'Osazuki' & I divided geranium 'Espresso' & put half there & half in Shigitatsu Sawa. I also divided up an Aruncus Aethusifolius between the Shigitatsu & the Jiro Shidare. These all seem like small foliaged plants that will complement the JMs. I'd also like to get a clump of black mondo grass.
Hi everyone- joined up here recently, so I'm just seeing this thread.
In my garden, Chicago area z5b-ish, I have the following cultivars, happy and healthy after two frigid winters:
Scolopendrifolium (I've had this for ~10 yrs, and transplanted twice)
A. shirasawaneum 'Aureum'
Todd- many months ago you wrote that Butterfly did badly. I had the same problem. the shrubby cultivars like Butterfly and Sango Kaku get a lot of winter die-back here, and tend to look really ratty. I gave up on the Butterfly, but I'm duking it out with the Sango Kaku!
Does anyone have those two in consistently good condition? Is it possible? :)
I have two Sango Kakul and both are in exposed areas and do well here. One is more exposed where other plants have suffered from winter wind burn in the past. I take no chances and install posts and wrap with burlap in the winter. I also spray some wilt proof on this one. I also do this for my hydrenga's (sp) and it helped stop the winter die back tremdously.
I'm wondering if Sango Kaku is happier in the southern part of the range that JMs are happy in. They sell tons of them in my area, but I haven't seen a mature one...haven't seen many mature JMs at all for that matter, but I have my eyes open for them. My Sango Kaku has been in the ground for about 7-8 years now, and that includes the first year or two when it was only about 2 feet tall. It's about 7 feet tall and a bit sparse yet as I was focusing on overall shape for the major branches in the past years. I'm hoping it fills in well this year. I see so many of them that are "shrubby" and I don't like that look, but am ready for it to fill out a bit. I would really like to try 'Butterfly' as well, but don't have an ideal spot for one at this point.
It would be interesting to know how many Jm's planted actually make it and for how long...I think the answer for ebay sticks is VERY FEW!! and I think it has alot to do with what part of the country you live in. If you can get them 8-10 years old my feeling is you're golden for just about anywhere from zone 5 down..but that means no real odd weather like last spring ...a good protected placemant and some luck ...Of course if you live in a jm perfect place like the upper west coast and parts of the east coast this hypothesis is not relevant ...same goes if you are an JM addict or hortoculturist who thinks of them like delicate flowers or their babies ... I also think an non expert newbe individual who buys a bigger specimen from a nursery has a much better chance than that same person buying a tree smaller posssibly damaged from Home depot or worse yet Ebay There are many folks that want them but few who will take care of one so an established cultivar is best in most cases ... Laura is correct there are millions of Jm's grown and sold each year but you seldom see mature ones at least around here..or in many areas of the US I have traveled ...and as an addict I WOULD notice them !!!.David
I have three whips that I got from Forest Farm, all of which survived last winter and settled in nicely over the summer. The only one to suffer damage was a 2 foot 'Coral Magic' whip which got sawed down to 2" above the ground by cicadas in June. The amazing thing is that by the end of the summer, the whip had regrown to 18"!
This winter will be the real test; it seems like we get 5" of snow and sub-zero temps every week. We'll see what survives.
The only mature JM I see in my area are Bloodgoods and Atropurpureum...a few of these are over 15' and just as wide (probably the max height they will get in my area). Of course, they were the only ones sold at local nurseries until recently. I know of one Oshio beni that is about 10' (about 10 years old) and my Sumini gashi is also about 10 years old and about 8'. There is also one large Osakazuki in a local park...must be over 40 years old. Can't say I've noticed any other larger JM around my city. However, there are some large, low, red dissectums (probably low-grafted Crimson Queen) around and recently I've seen some reasonably mature Inaba shidare. Otherwise, I seem to have the only interesting ones (I'm sure I don't, it just seems that way)
Ditto Todd... ...a mirror vision of whats here ...and i was ALSO thinking that the reason was that very few cultivars were available 10-30 years ago even a couple of years ago or in the case of here even NOW .. Only Atros and just seed grown Dissectums along with younger BG's and CC's. We know all of these trees are very hardy
... Now many more varieties are SLOWLY becoming available .. It will be interesting to see in ten years if these newer trees will pop up as full grown specimens .I suspect so to a degree but probably the majority of full grown's will be the above ...just more of them. Because most folks are simply interested in a basic Uprights or Dissectums and will buy what is cheap ,available, or what their landscaper suggests... JM education and general public knowledge of differnt JM cultivars is in it's infancy!! David
Funny you should mention a small jm bought at Home Depot. The sango kaku I have wrapped in burlap was a rescue purchase from HD. I had seen it available spring through summer with no buyers. It probably saw limited watering and one day in September I spotted it again hidden behind other trees. So I decided to save it and other than water and the winter coat of burlap it is doing great. I'm surprised you find it hard to grow my zone is no different than yours.
I never said specifically they were hard to grow ...JUST hard to find ...although they are soil ,light ,wind heat and cold sensitive making growing in non perfect Jm areas like ours problematic for beginners ...so for our areas they are not easy for most folks to grow...
You may get lucky with your Sk ... if you have read Sk posts at Daves and Garden Web and elsewhere most folks have NOT had luck with them and in fact it is almost considered it a trash JM's by many ...They are "potentially" very pretty trees but the general feeling is they both lack cold hardiness ability to take sun and may be so far from the original ones from Japan they they ain't the tree they use to be.(genetically inferior).
. I hope you are one of the few who have success with this troublesome tree...cause it has the potential to be very nice...but that potential is seldom reached especially in non perfect JM areas. David
Haven't really checked out Sk on sites. The one in the backyard I bought at a good nursery 7/8 years ago for the bark and interesting leaves. It is now about 11/12 feet tall and I recently dug it up and moved it to it's current location (2 yrs ago) and have had no problems with little to no die back. It recieves no protection. The one in front has doubled in size to over 4 feet. Guess I'll count myself lucky.
I would say you are an definite exception ...maybe it is not a true Sk or one that is seed grown ( plants on their own roots tend to be hardier especially if it was crossed with a Atro but kept it's parental look )..It was much rarer to find grafted JM's 12 years ago in most places .Or maybe you got one that was more directly related to it's ansestors than the ones comon in big box stores accross the country today ( it was likely over 10-12 years ago or more). All the red branched Jm's are a bit touchy not just the Sk but it is the MOST troublesome...Also one problem with the Sk is as it grows older the red is less noticable on the branches cause only shows in new growth and the new growth has slowed down to a crawl...It is still a nice green A.P. but it's trademark becomes much less spectacular..But for someone on the west coast in maple country like Doss who has a nice Sk...all these comments may be irrelivant.. David
That list is so small it is ridicules but I don't have time to update it .. all of those except Red Pigmy are still alive and doing well all lived through the big freeze of 08 and persitant 17 below yearly temps.
I would say these lists are helpful to a degree but tend to scare folks from really cool cultivars that may work...just because one person has problems doesn't mean you will.As I have said so often allot of different things can effect the JM's survival .. including wetness ( too much) and early budding and leafing like Katsura. Most Acer Palmatums can be grown in the warmer areas of zone 5 period... But as with most things in life in general some do better than others with sun cold wind and moisture. Myersphcf ( Davidsan)