As a hobbyist hybridizer, I am very critical of myself and some of the seedlings I create. I have asked some of you by D-Mail for honest input, and now I am mustering the 'courage?' to show some of these to the rest of the world. In doing so, I feel I will get honest opinions; and the input I feel is very much needed! Bear in mind for every seedling I post, at least 5 or 6 didn't make the cut. I have tried my level best to get the color as accurate as possible by posting exactly what my beat-up camera saw: No color enhancements! All opinions are welcome, good, bad and in between. This is Seedling N, Parentage Gentle Grace X Chubby Cheeks.
(Edited to correct spelling.)
I was so disappointed with so much yellow/off-yellow and yellow/white showing up, this one really shocked me. I was very happy with the color, and the beards are more than I could have hoped for. This is Seedling O; Parentage Chanted X Chubby Cheeks.
This one takes a LOT of courage for me to even think about posting! My own feelings & thoughts when I first saw it, "fat little toad; ugly; too short and dumpy". And it's color is even more bizarre. It is Seedling "R"; Parentage Gentle Grace X Chubby Cheeks. Now I need the courage to hit the send button.
This is another seedling I have trouble coming to terms with; It's hard for me to describe in everyday language. My feelings are still mixed about it. It;s short at about 9-10" and has fairly decent growth, but the color arrangement is up for debate. It is Seedling W; Parentage Gentle Grace X Chubby Cheeks.
I think that you have established lovely form in all four of them and I think that they all have merits. I like a lot going on in an iris and you've accomplished this in all of them, although it's subtle in R. I'm not fond of pastel but I love N and W. I do find though that each person who comes in my garden loves a different iris - and I have 300 different ones. I would buy N, O and W right NOW (if they grew here). But I have a friend who I know would love R the best. All of these have so much going on and that's what I love, even though it's very subtle in R.
Sorry that I'm not too much help. But I just appreciate the infinite variety.
Thanks everyone for your input on these seedlings. Each opinion offered is VERY valuable! YOU are the people out there who truly make up the real 'Iris World'! Sandy, your opinion is very helpful. Neil, I agree; yellow is a least favored color for me too. An overwhelming majority of my SDB seedlings bloomed with some shade of yellow:- (unfortunately). Laura and Roni, I needed to hear that about W. Doss, your idea about different people liking different colors and shapes is the same experience I see in visitors to my seedling garden. I like to watch their reaction, and listen to their comments as they walk through the rows. Some of the worst possible cultivars (in my opinion) draw positive reviews from some people. This reinforces my belief that 'beauty is always in the eye of the beholder'. Susan and hgurule, Thanks, this helps me a lot. At the risk of overkill, I want to share one more. It's a pink SDB with a blush of lavender at the beard tips. The shape and form is questionable. It is Seedling X; Parentage is Kiss Me Quick X Low Ho Silver.
You slipped in a couple of new ones here! Truth, right?
N - I like the overall roundness of the bloom in the front view, but the profile makes the standards look stumpy and over-domed. Nice beards. Nice fall shape and ruffling. Pleasing color, but lacks the "wow" factor in my eyes.
O - I'd prefer the falls a bit wider, otherwise nice form. Wonderful beard. Great saturation of color, but it is a color class that I think already has an abundance of very nice entries.
R - Uh, no. Colors washed out. Ruffles insignificant. Haft lines distracting. Standards lack any pleasing contour.
Laurie, I'm not Neil, but we have a lot in common. Yes, I slipped a couple more in; and I was a little apprehensive about doing this, but posted anyway. Truth, ALWAYS! "We cannot navigate without it". I'm surprised some others liked W too: Agree on R. This is about it for SDB's in 2006. Now I'm waiting on a few TB seedlings: If anything looks decent, I'll share it. Just an add-on; this is an SDB seedling that is turning out to be an IB- over 16"-18". (Seedling S: You might have already seen it by D-Mail; wrong color, except for the beards.)
Leon. I like the SDB offspring from Kiss Me Quick as it's color is gorgeous. However, it would be nice if it were IB in class. It also would be great if it inherits the rebloom trait from Low Ho Silver. It does appear though as if it doesn't know if it wants to be ruffled or not.
Keep sharing. I like new ones. W still gets my blood pumping. I particularly like the unusual haft area with the dark blue. It's totally different.
I just uncovered an envelope with seeds marked Delicate Pink X unknown. Is it too late to plant them? I forgot having harvested them last August.
Laurie, agree (LOL); it's early and I haven't even started the day! I need to play 'sick' and take the day off, BUT I must get out on the trail. Extra 'parts' indeed; what's baffling is, its tall- well into IB territory, and the color turns me off!
Roni, I'll probably hold X over a year to watch it, and possibly cross it back to Low Ho Silver to see if I get rebloom. Yes, now that I've built up a little confidence I will post some new ones as time passes.
On the saved seeds, I would plant them NOW. I usually plant all iris seeds in the fall (Oct.), but I have had them to germinate all during the summer months from the fall planting.
I am not up on the nuances of what makes truly 'good' form--I respond to blooms primarily on their color and shading.
Here's what grabs me:
W: so unusual--I think the dark blue really does it for me
X: the pink color is just what I've had on my mind--not too pale/not too bright--and the lavender hues are a lovely accent
N: I too am not usually drawn to the yellows--but there is something about this one--maybe it's the beards--but overall the color looks soft and inviting
R: I do like this one...I lean toward blooms that look like watercolors...and this one does it in my eyes
and O: definitely a bright and cheery bloom--but reminds me of others...so does not stand out as much for me
Here's my two cents: W is definately a winner, but I like all of the others too for various reasons. (Except the pink - pink isn't my color!) I really love the subtle colors of R. R and O would be gorgeous together. Intense color like O really do something for me. I like the first one less because the pale yellows seem to be pretty common and not unusual enough for me. I really like unusual color combinations, and would gladly adopt any orphans that you want to get rid of! (Unless they are pink!)
Thanks Leon, I think I will plant them now. It will delight my 15 year who is actively studying genetics in biology so that one day he can hybridize irises for me. After all, he's the one who begged to let the seed pod on the "baby irises" last year.
You need to introduce seedling "X" RIGHT NOW (so that I can buy it!) Of course, I don't know what the plant habits, bud count, etc. are like...but if they're good then what are you waiting for!!! LOL! :0)
IBs, if I'm not mistaken, were developed (and still are) by crossing SDBs with TBs. Nowadays there are fertile IBs that are crossed with each other to create new IBs, though hybridizers also still create them by breeding SDB X TB. With both SDB and TB genes in the mix, seedlings can grow to nearly any height depending on how the genes intermix, but they all still contain both SDB and TB genes. That's why some IBs are likely to do better for you than others.
Hmm. I just checked Leon's parentage on the IB height yellow, and it's Chanted X Chubby Cheeks, both SDBs. So, apparently this is just a tall baby that grew out of class. Not an IB by breeding, but one by height. Correct, Leon?
Right Laurie; It's just over the borderline of 16" at the tip of the flower. So I'm 'guessing' way back somewhere the grandparents, or great grandparents had some genetic addition either intentionally, OR, by a stray grain of pollen from a busy bee. I've read accounts of some of the famed hybridizers of today (Graeme Grosvenor specifically) who talk about introducing a cultivar at a certain height, and once it's introduced, it reaches several inches over (and under) that height in another geographic area. Another example is Joe Ghio's "Borderline" (BB) registered at 26" which is just under the 'borderline' of 28". Yet, in some locations it grows well beyond that.
Barry Blyth's 'Zing Me', IB is registered at 20", yet it grows rarely beyond 14-15" here, making it an unofficial SDB. I've grown it for years, and never have I seen it beyond 16".
Doss, I must confess, I am not sure about warm climate areas with IB's. What I follow primarily is the work of Graeme Grosvenor from Australia who discusses this in depth in his book, "Iris, Flower Of The Rainbow" (Kangaroo Press, 1997). He goes into detail on the necessary cold and frost SDB's must have in order to bloom. Both SDB & IB culture is covered in chapter 1, with a complete section on each. I apologize I'm not more knowledgeable on warm climate areas. If you have access to this book, I highly recommend it, and I hope I have helped somewhat.
Doss, OK, I just went back to 'school', and read a few pages of Grosvenor's book on IB cultural requirements. On page 30 he states, "They are somewhat less demanding than the dwarf bearded in that they need LESS winter cold to facilitate good bloom and so they are suitable for a much wider climactic area".
So I learned something I didn't previously realize being situated in a colder zone. I hope this will help answer your question. (And, I hope I'm not making this boring for you:)
Please may I give you my vote for them too?
Seedling N I love that big blue beard.
Seedling O I really like and would buy.
Seedling X certainly 'does it' for me and as soon as I saw the first picture of this one I was in love with it :)
Seedling W I find very unusual because I've never seen markings like that on any iris before.
Seedling R I find quite attractive, I like that grey tinge to it.
doss, my apologies; you had a question yesterday at 6:47 p.m., asking if I could only introduce one iris which one would I choose. I haven't requested any registration forms, but IF I could only pick ONE of the above, I would lean heavily toward W. My D-Mail for this one was overwhelmingly positive, and it seems to have gotten a good response in this thread as well. D-Mail was strong for X also. I'm very happy with O's color and big bushy beards. O's blue color spreads around the beards and well onto the falls. Thanks so much for your input; it is very helpful
Sandy, thanks for adding your comments on S. I am adding a picture of another yellow seedling below. It has a pale levender blue tip on the end of the beards. I somehow sensed you liked yellow, and this one does seem worth keeping another year. It is Seedling Q. I welcome all comments about it.
Dee, thanks for your input; it's not difficult to see you have a good eye for detail. I won't intro anything this year: I like to see them grow a full year (especially through another Indiana winter) to measure hardiness, growth and bloom habits, as well as disease resistance: An iris needs it badly here with our hot, humid summers!
Laura, I'm also partial to X. If I ever intro it I'll certainly update you ASAP! It's has good garden habits, It is branched as good as, (in some cases better than) the top SDB's out there. Lots of buds, five stems first year and still going strong. It's getting late into the season here for SDB's since most are done. Thanks for helping me out:)
MudGirl, thanks so much for you thoughts; it's very much appreciated! I like the pastels too, especially when there is a watercolor effect. W seems to be getting a good reception; that did surprise me.
Sharon, Your comments are also very welcome, and I feel indebted to ALL for your input. It seems you also prefer W over the others. This proved a very important point for me: My first feelings were "Nobody's going to like this one". And I made some notes about it in my journal, along with some negative thoughts on R. So I now know each person sees things quite differently from another's perspective. This is an important lesson for me to remember.
Terri, Thank you very much for adding your votes! I would be disappointed if you had not. It has been a great advantage for me to get all the various responses. This helps adjust my thinking to see things from other points of view. Again thanks to everyone for taking part!
Just when I thought SDB seedlings were done for 2006, I came home late today and found this bud on a small clump in the row. I had passed by it a dozen times thinking it would be worthless! I well know to "never count the chickens until the eggs hatch"; and this one isn't "hatched" yet! So I'm not counting it, BUT the initial color is something I've never seen in my iris gardens. So I await yet another surprise! I will share it here when it hatches, good or bad.
I personally love all of them Each is unique I'd buy all of them .I may be new to irises but I know what I like .I Think they are all beautiful...And if your selling let me know .All I can say isWOW...don't stop what your doing and keep the pics coming ...Sharon
I understand as a breeder one would be looking for unique qualities as well as overall health and vigor. As a gardener, it is good to have a wide variety of plants to
choose from, as one is working on making color compositions in space, and sometimes a non-special- washed out- subtle pastel that is nevertheless a good grower, that blooms the same time as a spectacular plant, and is a good compliment to the plant or group, is just what is needed. If you can make any sense out of that last sentance, I guess I am saying that not all plants need to be spectacular; some are needed for background and contrasting color. But I know you can't introduce them al l- what I am saying is that if a non-spectacular flower has good vigor and other positives, it could be considered...
Thanks Sharon (Milwaukee), Your comment, "I know what I like" makes a lot of sense, and should guide each of us in our preferences. Also appreciate your input.
Laurie, I will definitely keep an eye on this 'hatchling': The weather has turned VERY windy, cold and rainy overnight. I am keeping my expectations low, because so many times the end product has been disappointing. No matter, I'll post whatever it turns out to be.
Sharon in McGregor, I'm sure I understand what you're saying. It reinforces a point I made earlier in this thread concerning individual preferences. I also want to emphasize, "I do this only as a hobbyist, and NOT commercially". It is a personal interest only, but one I feel I share with all of you. Yes, I agree on designing and "painting a picture" with garden plants; using different colors, cultivars and sizes. Your comments make a lot of sense to me. I am attaching a picture of another seedling that has not been posted here. For various reasons I felt it didn't make the "cut"; The beards are too small, the shape and form is questionable, and in sunlight the color is more "red". I call it Seedling T. Thanks for your feedback!
As a fellow hobbyist hybridizer I truly admire your work! Though we can't grow SDB's or IB's here in the desert - - I must say the one that caught my eye was 'seedling W'. :-) UNIQUE. And 'seedling X' a close second as a favorite. The beard seems to pull it all together.
I find your balanced 4 part seedling - ('seedling S') most interesting. Is this it's maiden bloom? Is it the top flower only? The reason I ask - - is I have a seedling too that is equally balanced with all 4 parts. (but only and consistently on the top bloom). 4 standards, 4 falls, 4 beards, and 4 style arms... and just as important ...geometrically balanced. It's now bloomed for 3 years and I find that this characteristic looks to be genetic and (although not consistent on every single stalk) - - every year approximately 75-80% of the stalks will bloom with this perfectly balanced iris bloom.
I'm looking forward to seeing your orange one hatch. :-) Keep up the good work!
The 4/4/4 (stds./bds./falls) seems to be an anomaly associated with SDB's and IB's. I've had it show up on many cv's, most notably IB Protocol, SDB Bedford Lilac and MTB Blue Chip Stock. Often as many as 25% of their blooms have what I call 4/4/4. However, many of the others occasionally do this also.
On this particular seedling (S), only one bloom showed up with this feature. I am attaching a photo below of what a 'normal' bloom looks like. It's not an especially great color, but the beards got my attention. The blue pigmentation extends into the fall at the beard tips. All are maiden blooms this year.
It's odd, but the "pros" rarely ever write about the 4/4/4 characteristic. I read as much as I can (time permitting) about iris culture, and am a fan of the 'greats', Keppel, Ghio, Niswonger, Blyth and the late Robert Schreiner to name a few. I also must add Paul Black to this list. All are dedicated hybridizers. Unfortunately, I don't understand why it happens, but like you said, it seems to be genetic in nature.
The orange bud appears to be my last SDB seedling this year. I'm hoping for something nice, but for now it remains a mystery. Thanks for your kind comments; I'll post a picture as soon as this "baby hatches".
That blue pigmented area on the falls which follow the beards are intriguing and DOES make the flower! I see there is also a bit of that blue pigment going on with 'seedling N' as well. It helps to make 'seedling N' very pleasing to look at - by having that pigment follow the beard. It seems to draw one in.
I too have read many iris books and periodicals on culture and hybridizing, and like you, have never read anything about the 4/4/4 characterisitc either. I work mainly with crossing TB's, most recently Arilbreds, and just this year ... made a couple of crosses on Louisianas. I've seen the 4/4/4 on 'Season Ticket' (an IB by Keppel), but I've never seen one consistently on a TB - with exception to this seedling I'm growing. (There may be others out there - I just haven't seen them.) :-)Thank you for sharing the 4/4/4 characteristic information you've NOTED concerning the medians. I can't help but think this characterisitc may play an important role in the future of novelty irises. :-)
After a solid week of RAIN, WINDS, & HUMIDITY, I have almost given up on a TB bloom season. It began raining (storming) last Wednesday, May 10th, and has continued through today, May 16th. And, the forecast shows a continuing wet weather pattern for several more days. I'm sure there must be others around the Midwest (and Northeast) who undoubtedly are going through this wet iris season. I have put an item in my journal about disease problems resulting from all this water. Anyone who wants to share my 'misery' can go to this link to see what I'm experiencing: http://davesgarden.com/journal/j/viewentry/94878/
Now for the orange bud, posted above in this thread; it finally opened- after two days of pounding rain! Unfortunately, it 'hatched' more like an 'ugly duckling'; and there's NO chance it will ever develop into a 'Cinderella' story. But, I did state above that I would post it, "good or bad". So here's a picture of my disappointment.
Oh Leon, I feel for you. I get so mad at the neighborhood street cats for wander through the garden during scape formation and breaking them off. I can't imagine see buds and then having them destroyed with no more hope of bloom from that plant for this year.
Poor little orange bud did his best to come through for you, Leon. You gotta give him credit for attractive color, anyway.
We've been having rainy, heavy, cool weather, too, but not so much as you. Mostly the cold temps have stalled my bloom, but it'll start catching up this week with a few days in the 60s. I'm sorry for what your weather is doing to your bearded bloom. Maybe it's time for you to get interested in the beardless.
Any time you wish to get rid of X, I will be happy to purchase it from you. Love the coloration of it. After looking over your posting love the 1st one that you posted of the blue. Just checked on the no and it is N.
I really liked them all! Beautiful work. I think several of them are unusual which I really like in any flower. Different always draws my attention. I think the pink one is just beautiful and would purchase it as well as the yellow one posted after it...o, w, and t would look great in my garden too! What wonderful color combos!
Thanks so much for sharing them and I hope next season isn't as wet for you!
They are all lovely, however, N and O are my favorites. You should be proud of your creations. When ever I see a beautiful flower with such color and detail, I just say "thank you Lord." Truly amazing, and that he lets us "play around" with and enjoy them all is extra special. Have fun creating new ones neighbor. I will look forward to them and may some day have some of my own to share with you.
Sorry I forgot to add a note: Extra flower parts are usually cause by cold damage, often on terminal flower only. Cross it with a tougher flower. Some new seedlings from such a cross will show the trait and others will be fine.
dmac085, you have certainly sparked my curiosity here! I went thru and judged them before I realized it was a post from so many years ago... anyway, here is what I've got to say about them (whether you want to hear it or not lol)
The soft yellow color is nice, reminds me of an old fashioned. I LOVE the deep color at the base of the standards! The beards are a beautiful blue and the veining is so slight, you might almost miss it. Overall I say this is a pretty iris but I suspect judges in a competition might not agree. Like you have said, yellow is not usually a favorite, and especially so in a pastel- but personally, I love it. The overhead view shows just how stunning it truly is.
The deep blue-violet hue of this stunning beauty could only be improved by adding a light colored ruffled edge. It's beard is a nice color, but on this particular color petal, I would like to see it with a lighter beard. The overhead shows a lovely veining coming from inside that doesn't immediately show on the side view. I would like to see longer petals over all though; it seems kind of little.
I think this is a very pretty little flower. Her color is a nice soft lavendar, which can be very stunning beside a darker shade, like Seedling O. I LOVE the white beards on this one. It's standards remind me of the cup on a daffodil. I like it :)~ If you could get the white beards of this one on the deep blue-violet of O, I think you would have a smash hit (for me at least). Then again, I love purple... all shades.
The top view of this flower is an attention grabber. I like the cream coloring of it, keeping things subtle with its softly toned beards and the bold purple veins on the startling yellow background... this is a nice flower. Kind of reminds me of something my grandma would have on her table when I was little. I REALLY like the darker yellow ruffles on it. (My adult daughter also gives her seal of approval- and she is a picky girl!)
VERY NICE! I love the coloring and veining. The entire flower is a soft and sweet color. The only thing that could make this one better is a beautiful scent. This is my favorite so far, even though it's pink instead of my usual favorite- purple. The overhead view on her is still quite nice.
I am not overly fond of the color combination on this one, but individually, the colors are pretty. The yellow is a very pretty shade and would be stunning with an orange or salmon colored beard and veining. I like the blue-violet beards, and would LOVE to see them as the only color on a pure white or cream colored flower with no veining. I love the double standards on this one, with the fringed edges- does that have a name? I would love to see a side view of this one.
I LOVE the color on these petals! The beards are that lovely blue that you went for on this season's buds, but with this dark colored petal, I think it needs more contrast- so a lighter hue of blue?
I like this petal color and the beards, too. It lacks petal width as well as length, though. If you could mix in a contrasting color for those veins, I think I would like to see the deep color of Seedling T on it. I am a fan of the salmon coloring of this one though.
I wonder, too... are any of these still in development? What do we see now?
LOL As a non professional iris fan who has not one clue about hybridizing or what the pro's and judge's look for in a champ, I'd take any of them but I'm just a simple girl who likes the pretty flowers:LOL:
Would be interesting to find out how these faired in the long run though--have to agree with you there!