SDB Seedlings 2006

(Zone 5a)

As a hobbyist hybridizer, I am very critical of myself and some of the seedlings I create. I have asked some of you by D-Mail for honest input, and now I am mustering the 'courage?' to show some of these to the rest of the world. In doing so, I feel I will get honest opinions; and the input I feel is very much needed! Bear in mind for every seedling I post, at least 5 or 6 didn't make the cut. I have tried my level best to get the color as accurate as possible by posting exactly what my beat-up camera saw: No color enhancements! All opinions are welcome, good, bad and in between. This is Seedling N, Parentage Gentle Grace X Chubby Cheeks.
(Edited to correct spelling.)

This message was edited May 8, 2006 9:20 PM

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(Zone 5a)

An overhead view of N.

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(Zone 5a)

And a profile look.

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(Zone 5a)

I was so disappointed with so much yellow/off-yellow and yellow/white showing up, this one really shocked me. I was very happy with the color, and the beards are more than I could have hoped for. This is Seedling O; Parentage Chanted X Chubby Cheeks.

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(Zone 5a)

An overhead view of "O".

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(Zone 5a)

This one takes a LOT of courage for me to even think about posting! My own feelings & thoughts when I first saw it, "fat little toad; ugly; too short and dumpy". And it's color is even more bizarre. It is Seedling "R"; Parentage Gentle Grace X Chubby Cheeks. Now I need the courage to hit the send button.

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(Zone 5a)

Since I got up the nerve to post "R", I might as well bore everybody with its profile view. Maybe somebody out there will like it, but I have my doubts!

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(Zone 5a)

This is another seedling I have trouble coming to terms with; It's hard for me to describe in everyday language. My feelings are still mixed about it. It;s short at about 9-10" and has fairly decent growth, but the color arrangement is up for debate. It is Seedling W; Parentage Gentle Grace X Chubby Cheeks.

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(Zone 5a)

Now that I'm knee deep into this, I'll post one final look at "W". Again, all comments are entirely welcome: You are the REAL judges. Thanks everybody (including D-Mailers)!

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Arbuckle, CA(Zone 9a)

My favorites-in order

O-oh my gosh!
W-I like the color
N-beautiful beards

You should be proud of all the hard work you put into this. I don't know how valuable my opinion is-SDB's don't grow well in my area.:-)

Sandy

Vancouver, WA(Zone 7a)

Well...I'd buy any of them! Great job!

My favorite is seedling "W". What a unique pattern!

Nashville, TN(Zone 7a)

I'm not fond of yellows and have very few, but I like N

Neil

Stanford, CA(Zone 9b)

I think that you have established lovely form in all four of them and I think that they all have merits. I like a lot going on in an iris and you've accomplished this in all of them, although it's subtle in R. I'm not fond of pastel but I love N and W. I do find though that each person who comes in my garden loves a different iris - and I have 300 different ones. I would buy N, O and W right NOW (if they grew here). But I have a friend who I know would love R the best. All of these have so much going on and that's what I love, even though it's very subtle in R.

Sorry that I'm not too much help. But I just appreciate the infinite variety.

Hagerstown, MD(Zone 6a)

I personally am attracted to W, O, R, then N. Maybe because I'm worn-out teehee just a joke. Seriously though, I do like them in that order.

Any of them you wish to send this way for evaluation outside your garden, send them my way. I'll pay for their journey Southeast.

Roni

Summerville, SC(Zone 8a)

I absolutely love Seedling N, Parentage Gentle Grace X Chubby Cheeks!!! Gorgeous! I also love your Seedling O; Parentage Chanted X Chubby Cheeks. Such beautiful colors! They are all beautiful.

Lincoln, NE(Zone 5b)

N, then W would be my favorites if I were going to buy them. Lovely, subtle coloring.

Susan

(Zone 5a)

Thanks everyone for your input on these seedlings. Each opinion offered is VERY valuable! YOU are the people out there who truly make up the real 'Iris World'! Sandy, your opinion is very helpful. Neil, I agree; yellow is a least favored color for me too. An overwhelming majority of my SDB seedlings bloomed with some shade of yellow:- (unfortunately). Laura and Roni, I needed to hear that about W. Doss, your idea about different people liking different colors and shapes is the same experience I see in visitors to my seedling garden. I like to watch their reaction, and listen to their comments as they walk through the rows. Some of the worst possible cultivars (in my opinion) draw positive reviews from some people. This reinforces my belief that 'beauty is always in the eye of the beholder'. Susan and hgurule, Thanks, this helps me a lot. At the risk of overkill, I want to share one more. It's a pink SDB with a blush of lavender at the beard tips. The shape and form is questionable. It is Seedling X; Parentage is Kiss Me Quick X Low Ho Silver.

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Deer River, MN(Zone 3b)

Hey LEON (sorry about that),

You slipped in a couple of new ones here! Truth, right?

N - I like the overall roundness of the bloom in the front view, but the profile makes the standards look stumpy and over-domed. Nice beards. Nice fall shape and ruffling. Pleasing color, but lacks the "wow" factor in my eyes.

O - I'd prefer the falls a bit wider, otherwise nice form. Wonderful beard. Great saturation of color, but it is a color class that I think already has an abundance of very nice entries.

R - Uh, no. Colors washed out. Ruffles insignificant. Haft lines distracting. Standards lack any pleasing contour.

W - You already know how much I like this one.

Laurie

This message was edited May 9, 2006 7:59 AM

(Zone 5a)

Laurie, I'm not Neil, but we have a lot in common. Yes, I slipped a couple more in; and I was a little apprehensive about doing this, but posted anyway. Truth, ALWAYS! "We cannot navigate without it". I'm surprised some others liked W too: Agree on R. This is about it for SDB's in 2006. Now I'm waiting on a few TB seedlings: If anything looks decent, I'll share it. Just an add-on; this is an SDB seedling that is turning out to be an IB- over 16"-18". (Seedling S: You might have already seen it by D-Mail; wrong color, except for the beards.)

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Deer River, MN(Zone 3b)

Hey, it isn't even 8:00 a.m. here yet. Gimme a break, LEON! LOL!

See, I'm not the only one who likes them new and different. I figured there'd be interest in W.

S looks like a very enthusiastic plant. Just look at all those extra parts!

Laurie

Hagerstown, MD(Zone 6a)

Leon. I like the SDB offspring from Kiss Me Quick as it's color is gorgeous. However, it would be nice if it were IB in class. It also would be great if it inherits the rebloom trait from Low Ho Silver. It does appear though as if it doesn't know if it wants to be ruffled or not.

Keep sharing. I like new ones. W still gets my blood pumping. I particularly like the unusual haft area with the dark blue. It's totally different.

I just uncovered an envelope with seeds marked Delicate Pink X unknown. Is it too late to plant them? I forgot having harvested them last August.

Roni

(Zone 5a)

Laurie, agree (LOL); it's early and I haven't even started the day! I need to play 'sick' and take the day off, BUT I must get out on the trail. Extra 'parts' indeed; what's baffling is, its tall- well into IB territory, and the color turns me off!

Roni, I'll probably hold X over a year to watch it, and possibly cross it back to Low Ho Silver to see if I get rebloom. Yes, now that I've built up a little confidence I will post some new ones as time passes.

On the saved seeds, I would plant them NOW. I usually plant all iris seeds in the fall (Oct.), but I have had them to germinate all during the summer months from the fall planting.

Just for the record, here is one more view of X.

Thanks for all the honest input!

This message was edited May 9, 2006 9:28 AM

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West Central, WI(Zone 4a)

I LOVE it when seedlings are posted!

I am not up on the nuances of what makes truly 'good' form--I respond to blooms primarily on their color and shading.
Here's what grabs me:
W: so unusual--I think the dark blue really does it for me
X: the pink color is just what I've had on my mind--not too pale/not too bright--and the lavender hues are a lovely accent
N: I too am not usually drawn to the yellows--but there is something about this one--maybe it's the beards--but overall the color looks soft and inviting
R: I do like this one....I lean toward blooms that look like watercolors...and this one does it in my eyes
and O: definitely a bright and cheery bloom--but reminds me of others....so does not stand out as much for me

Thanks for sharing...hope to see more!

McGregor, IA(Zone 4b)

Here's my two cents: W is definately a winner, but I like all of the others too for various reasons. (Except the pink - pink isn't my color!) I really love the subtle colors of R. R and O would be gorgeous together. Intense color like O really do something for me. I like the first one less because the pale yellows seem to be pretty common and not unusual enough for me. I really like unusual color combinations, and would gladly adopt any orphans that you want to get rid of! (Unless they are pink!)
Sharon

Hagerstown, MD(Zone 6a)

Thanks Leon, I think I will plant them now. It will delight my 15 year who is actively studying genetics in biology so that one day he can hybridize irises for me. After all, he's the one who begged to let the seed pod on the "baby irises" last year.

Vancouver, WA(Zone 7a)

Leon~

You need to introduce seedling "X" RIGHT NOW (so that I can buy it!) Of course, I don't know what the plant habits, bud count, etc. are like...but if they're good then what are you waiting for!!! LOL! :0)

Laura

This message was edited May 9, 2006 11:15 AM

Summerville, SC(Zone 8a)

Oooh! I love the soft, feminine ruffles in your X seedling. Breathtaking! Nice color too.

Arbuckle, CA(Zone 9a)

I love the color on X, and I've changed my mind, I think S is the best yellow.

Sandy

Stanford, CA(Zone 9b)

Leon, if you reclassify a SDB to an IB, that means that it's not going to perform in warmer areas, right? Is that really the way it happens? No wonder I'm having a few problems.

If you could only introduce one, which one would you choose?

Deer River, MN(Zone 3b)

doss,

IBs, if I'm not mistaken, were developed (and still are) by crossing SDBs with TBs. Nowadays there are fertile IBs that are crossed with each other to create new IBs, though hybridizers also still create them by breeding SDB X TB. With both SDB and TB genes in the mix, seedlings can grow to nearly any height depending on how the genes intermix, but they all still contain both SDB and TB genes. That's why some IBs are likely to do better for you than others.

Laurie

addendum:

Hmm. I just checked Leon's parentage on the IB height yellow, and it's Chanted X Chubby Cheeks, both SDBs. So, apparently this is just a tall baby that grew out of class. Not an IB by breeding, but one by height. Correct, Leon?

This message was edited May 9, 2006 6:06 PM

(Zone 5a)

Right Laurie; It's just over the borderline of 16" at the tip of the flower. So I'm 'guessing' way back somewhere the grandparents, or great grandparents had some genetic addition either intentionally, OR, by a stray grain of pollen from a busy bee. I've read accounts of some of the famed hybridizers of today (Graeme Grosvenor specifically) who talk about introducing a cultivar at a certain height, and once it's introduced, it reaches several inches over (and under) that height in another geographic area. Another example is Joe Ghio's "Borderline" (BB) registered at 26" which is just under the 'borderline' of 28". Yet, in some locations it grows well beyond that.

Barry Blyth's 'Zing Me', IB is registered at 20", yet it grows rarely beyond 14-15" here, making it an unofficial SDB. I've grown it for years, and never have I seen it beyond 16".

Doss, I must confess, I am not sure about warm climate areas with IB's. What I follow primarily is the work of Graeme Grosvenor from Australia who discusses this in depth in his book, "Iris, Flower Of The Rainbow" (Kangaroo Press, 1997). He goes into detail on the necessary cold and frost SDB's must have in order to bloom. Both SDB & IB culture is covered in chapter 1, with a complete section on each. I apologize I'm not more knowledgeable on warm climate areas. If you have access to this book, I highly recommend it, and I hope I have helped somewhat.

Photo of Zing Me attached which I grow as a SDB,

This message was edited May 10, 2006 7:11 AM

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(Zone 5a)

Doss, OK, I just went back to 'school', and read a few pages of Grosvenor's book on IB cultural requirements. On page 30 he states, "They are somewhat less demanding than the dwarf bearded in that they need LESS winter cold to facilitate good bloom and so they are suitable for a much wider climactic area".

So I learned something I didn't previously realize being situated in a colder zone. I hope this will help answer your question. (And, I hope I'm not making this boring for you:)

Lebanon, OR

After just completing my apprentice program having judged the seedlings I would buy and vote for W as it is the most unusal and to the best of my knowledge nothing similar on the market

If you are serious about maybe intro it, and need to test in another area garden I would test it for you in Oregon

D

Arbuckle, CA(Zone 9a)

Doss, I ordered a few IBs from the Snowpeak co-op, so I can be a warm-hot climate tester. I'll let you know next year.

I think Warm Puppy is an IB and it's doing OK so far.

Sandy

Yorkshire,

Please may I give you my vote for them too?
Seedling N I love that big blue beard.
Seedling O I really like and would buy.
Seedling X certainly 'does it' for me and as soon as I saw the first picture of this one I was in love with it :)
Seedling W I find very unusual because I've never seen markings like that on any iris before.
Seedling R I find quite attractive, I like that grey tinge to it.

Terri

(Zone 5a)

doss, my apologies; you had a question yesterday at 6:47 p.m., asking if I could only introduce one iris which one would I choose. I haven't requested any registration forms, but IF I could only pick ONE of the above, I would lean heavily toward W. My D-Mail for this one was overwhelmingly positive, and it seems to have gotten a good response in this thread as well. D-Mail was strong for X also. I'm very happy with O's color and big bushy beards. O's blue color spreads around the beards and well onto the falls. Thanks so much for your input; it is very helpful

Sandy, thanks for adding your comments on S. I am adding a picture of another yellow seedling below. It has a pale levender blue tip on the end of the beards. I somehow sensed you liked yellow, and this one does seem worth keeping another year. It is Seedling Q. I welcome all comments about it.

Dee, thanks for your input; it's not difficult to see you have a good eye for detail. I won't intro anything this year: I like to see them grow a full year (especially through another Indiana winter) to measure hardiness, growth and bloom habits, as well as disease resistance: An iris needs it badly here with our hot, humid summers!

Laura, I'm also partial to X. If I ever intro it I'll certainly update you ASAP! It's has good garden habits, It is branched as good as, (in some cases better than) the top SDB's out there. Lots of buds, five stems first year and still going strong. It's getting late into the season here for SDB's since most are done. Thanks for helping me out:)

MudGirl, thanks so much for you thoughts; it's very much appreciated! I like the pastels too, especially when there is a watercolor effect. W seems to be getting a good reception; that did surprise me.

Sharon, Your comments are also very welcome, and I feel indebted to ALL for your input. It seems you also prefer W over the others. This proved a very important point for me: My first feelings were "Nobody's going to like this one". And I made some notes about it in my journal, along with some negative thoughts on R. So I now know each person sees things quite differently from another's perspective. This is an important lesson for me to remember.

Terri, Thank you very much for adding your votes! I would be disappointed if you had not. It has been a great advantage for me to get all the various responses. This helps adjust my thinking to see things from other points of view. Again thanks to everyone for taking part!

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(Zone 5a)

Just when I thought SDB seedlings were done for 2006, I came home late today and found this bud on a small clump in the row. I had passed by it a dozen times thinking it would be worthless! I well know to "never count the chickens until the eggs hatch"; and this one isn't "hatched" yet! So I'm not counting it, BUT the initial color is something I've never seen in my iris gardens. So I await yet another surprise! I will share it here when it hatches, good or bad.

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Milwaukee, WI(Zone 5a)

I personally love all of them Each is unique I'd buy all of them .I may be new to irises but I know what I like .I Think they are all beautiful...And if your selling let me know .All I can say isWOW....don't stop what your doing and keep the pics coming ..........Sharon

Deer River, MN(Zone 3b)

Leon,

That's a wonderful bud! I can't wait to see what hatches from it.

Laurie

McGregor, IA(Zone 4b)

I understand as a breeder one would be looking for unique qualities as well as overall health and vigor. As a gardener, it is good to have a wide variety of plants to
choose from, as one is working on making color compositions in space, and sometimes a non-special- washed out- subtle pastel that is nevertheless a good grower, that blooms the same time as a spectacular plant, and is a good compliment to the plant or group, is just what is needed. If you can make any sense out of that last sentance, I guess I am saying that not all plants need to be spectacular; some are needed for background and contrasting color. But I know you can't introduce them al l- what I am saying is that if a non-spectacular flower has good vigor and other positives, it could be considered...
Sharon

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