You've found the famous Dave's Garden website! Join this friendly global community that shares tips and ideas for home and gardens, along with seeds and plants!
Check out the DG homepage for a brief overview of what you'll find in this gardening mega-site.
Login
If you don't have an account yet, visit the registration page to sign up.
I live and work in a temperate climate where outdoor living is enjoyed all year round.
Property values are high despite the lack of usable outdoor property space .
Rarely do you come across a parcel with an acre or two. More likely the property parcel size is measure in sq. feet and usually is about a 1/4 to 1/2 acre or less.
When one combines our good weather with our small lots and modest sized houses this sets up a nice recipe for using our out door yards as additional living spaces used on a daily basis.
More and more I am seeing our outdoor spaces used for an all inclusive entertainment centers that often includes an outdoor cook area , a comfortable place to dine, and an outdoor fireplace.
Have others noticed the movement towards bringing what would be considered conventional inside 'rooms' move out into the backyard ?
Rooms such as kitchens being built out of doors along with fireplaces, outdoor dining rooms , and even outdoor showers and spa rooms ?
I'm sure you wanted some opinions from someone farther away from you than I am, but I'll throw in my 2 cents anyway! I was recently househunting and did see some stuff like this--nothing too fancy given my price range (which would have bought me a nice mansion somewhere other than CA, but only got me something slightly above a starter home here!), but I did see a couple outdoor fireplaces and one outdoor shower. A lot of the houses had really nice patio areas but hadn't gone so far as to build in a bunch of stuff, mostly nice patio furniture and standalone grills, things like that. But I know in all the garden/design magazines that I pick up they're always showing how people transformed their yards into outdoor rooms, so I definitely think it's a growing trend. And I've seen even at Home Depot they were selling a nice gas grill with attached granite counterop and faux stone base...definitely designed to give that "outdoor kitchen" look. Personally I believe the trend is real, I think even with the houses I looked at where there weren't any fancy features, people definitely were using and enjoying their outdoor living spaces a lot, but just didn't have the budget to pursue some of the higher-end amenities.
Our California weather seems to have a pretty good impact on our outdoor living lifestyle.
I too peruse the pages of the garden style magazines and have noticed most of the beautiful photos of outdoor kitchens and fireplaces seem to be located in the west coast.
Ocassionally I see a mid western or east coast outdoor dining room but it is usually the warm temperate climates of the west coast and Florida that I notice.
I was wondering if cold climate folks invest in the development of outdoor kitchens , fireplaces and outdoor entertainment areas as we do here on the west coast or in Florida ?
Hi, I am a southern girl born and bred somewhat, but transplanted to Kansas via my husband's career. We just moved into our home 2 months ago. Some of my neighbors have very elaborate outdoor living areas including various stlyes of firepits, arbors, gazebos and etc.. I have met one neigbor that has an outdoor kitchen design with an overhead porch cover. Her sink is furnished with an outdoor water hose. I really can see myself using some of the design elements in the future. We just extended our patio 12x25 with the 16'' square concrete pavers ( original was 12 x 13) We completed it ourselves after waiting forever for the contractors to show up although they committed to installing a concrete patio of the same size in Feb. Long story short, we are looking at incorporating some of the designs aforementioned in the near future.
It's definitely a big trend here in North Alabama, especially in metro Huntsville and surrounding communities. Outdoor spaces are being included in new construction as well as remodels. My daughter, the 'Real-Estater', sees this going on more and more, even on the 1/3 to 1/2 acre home sites.
Yes, we have the mosquitos and hot, humid weather this time of year, but it hasn't stopped anyone from going for it, especially those who entertain a lot. Our winters are generally mild and we have great springs & autums affording an opportunity to enjoy and use the space. Notice all the stainless steel grills being sold & the outdoor granite countertops ecrane mentions; in my opinion, just an extension of what trends you see in the main kitchens. When you entertain, doesn't everyone end up in the kitchen? It's a great way to expand the areas where people tend to gather.
D-D, if you lived around here, you'd have a job at our place. I'm in awe of your work. Fabulous photos. Now, tell us how you post more than one pic at a time!
OutsidePlaying,
You said something that rings so poignantly true and is so blatantly obvious but I have never heard anyone say this or write it in print in all the multitudes of magazines that I have been reading on this subject : " When you entertain, doesn't everyone end up in the kitchen? It's a great way to expand the areas where people tend to gather. "
That's the ticket !
Thanks for verbalizing that thought. I am certain that I will repeat that analogy to many a client in the future.
As far as posting multitudes of photos on one page , this is what I did :
I opened up my drawing program in my IMAC.
Inserted each photo into one single page .
This allowed for resizing the photos so that they fit on a standard 8.5 x11 sheet if I ever wanted to print that sheet out.
Then I saved the photo montage page that I made in a JPG format.
Use the BROWSE box and choose that page/ photo to upload.
That's it.
Because I take high resolution photographs I usually resize them in my drawing program so that they don't take forever to up/down load.
You lose some quality , but for simple web viewing , it seems ok to me.
You can also insert wording in this manner or add borders or even do some cut and paste elements and more, but I am limited to the simple insert a photo, resize it and at the high end of my skill level add a border around the photo.
( I am pretty much computer illiterate )
here is another outdoor kitchen that I just wrapped up this year.
I put a border around the photo and typed in a few descriptive words.
Holy cow, DD, beautiful work. Do you ever get out near Reno? The trend is definately happening in Reno, although I don't know if it has made it out to Silver Springs (60 miles E), although there are a lot of Bay Area transplants here with Bay Area tastes. We are having the hot Dog Days of Summer right now, but we actually have seasons here, and the Spring and Fall are lovely for outdoors. And even in the summer, at 4300 ft, the nights do cool off nicely. We are contemplating putting in an outdoor kitchen that is under a substantial roof (snow load at least 20 lbs/ft) as we get cold in the winter, but as they say, it's a dry cold. We also get as many sunny days in the winter as in the summer - just at the other temperature extreme. Right now we have a chunk of 30 x 60 ft concrete slab just waiting for something good to happen to it..
I was sorting some old books for giveaway and found a landscaping book - copyright 1971 - with an excellent section on "outdoor rooms". I had thought this a fairly new term...
Kmom,
I am just starting to delve again into the world of snow loads.
I lived and studied in New England but it is a whole other world designing for snow climates in the west as opposed to the east.
Different soil structures, different steepness of topography and the biggy : wind shear .
I have a 2 new projects going on this summer fairly close to your area. One in Lake Tahoe and the other a little further away in Grass Valley.
The Tahoe job includes an outdoor kitchen and fire ring .
In the design of this kitchen / outdoor room we had to really research + think forward as to how the snow fell from roof lines and drained down the mountain side.
The homeowners want to use this outdoor room even in the winter time so we incorporated a hydronic heating system in the patio surfaces and also in the built in stone bench seating that surrounds a fire ring.
There is a very good landscaper up in your hood named Bob Bullard. He is a one man outfit and takes incredible pride in his craftsmanship.
I wouldn't call him a designer but he has a good eye toward structural assembly and can works together well with his clients ideas and other landscape designers
Wind gusts of 50 MPH do sometimes put a damper on outdoor living around here - especially with the sand flying. Our area is on an ancient lake bed, and I know it is sand at least 10 ft down - I saw them trenching for the electrical last year. I imagine the sand is deeper than that :-) We're saving our pennies and dreaming right now, but DD, your work is definately an inspiration!
Thank Kmom,
I'm saving my pennies too for my own outdoor mini kitchen.
Currently I have a fairly large open to the air pergola covering my outdoor dining area and I would like to demo it and rebuild in its place a screened in terrace with built in bbq and firplace.
below is a photo of a project that we just finished.
the 'frig hasn't arrived yet so I placed a basket in its slot for the photo.
I'd love to have something like this for my own place but I neither have the dough nor the space .
Oh my gosh! That's a masterpiece fer shure! Back in the days I had to entertain a lot I would have loved it. At this time in my life it just looks like a lot of work though! LOL
Deviant, I showed your work to my favorite person and we are both impressed. We are truly rethinking this patio thing we got going on and are inspired. Any hints for us in finding a contractor that we can count on to avoid our previous disappointments. Wished we had a lot more pennies to fly your crew out and do our backyard. I'm sure you must be booked solid for the next few years! Your work is great!
Any hints for us in finding a contractor that we can count on to avoid our previous disappointments
Try to find craftsmen and women who truly love what they do and take pride in their work.
You rarely can't go wrong with that recipe.
Look at their portfolio's and let them tell you their stories about each job .
You'll see the pride of 'ownership' that they take even though they crafted this work for someone else.
Then tell your story to your crafts team and let a fine collaboration begin.
Stay connected to your crafts team .
Vocalize your ideas and then let the craftsmen and women speak of their ideas and techniques too.
The projects that I have loved the most are those where everyone respected one another's strengths and knew when to jump in as well as back off.
Building projects is much like life, there are going to be bumps in the road and imperfections to face.
If you keep a good attitude , retain your sense of humor and keep a good friendly business relationship going, then you will have a pleasant working experience.
I've had some real bonafide pshyco doosey's in my career as well some great clients / projects.
I could/ should write a book on some of the more 'scarey clients'.
If I ever get around to it , I might entitle it " The Anti Christ has a landscape and I know where she lives".
Thanks, very good points, it's obvious that you enjoy your "craft'! That title is great too! Looking back I can see where we went wrong! Lessons were well learned and we definitely got a good workout doing it ourselves and we really enjoy our patio. For the other elements, we will definitely have to hire a contractor but we will be better prepared in the selection.
Our climate (Portland, OR zone 8) allows us to enjoy the great out doors for many months of the year. Outdoor kitchens are gaining popularity in our area, but they really need to be covered to be used year round. Our summers are very dry, but it can rain from October into June. I don't see many true outdoor kitchens (except in the higher end landscapes), but most all of my design clients grill outdoors nearly year round on either portable grills or small built in units. There is a growing local buzz about wood fired ovens, I dream of the day I hook up with a client who has the desire and budget for an outdoor oven. Many clients ask for a Firepit and chimenea in their garden plan, more so than ask for a built-in BBQ.
My personal outdoor kitchen consists of a Webber charcoal grill and a small table we move next to it for grilling utensils and a glass of wine. We grill 3-4 nights a week during the dry season. We also have a metal chimenea type fireplace surrounded by logs topped with pillows for seating. I find that the fireplace is a favorite sitting area for guests even when the fire isn’t lit, kind of like everyone gathering in the kitchen.
My dream for my garden kitchen space is a wood fired oven and fireplace with a built in charcoal grill, however, my budget right now only has room for a new crushed rock patio to set the existing fireplace on! If / when I find the money to build my dream I will look back for inspiration in Deviant’s awesome stone work.
I always recommend a covered area to my clients. Our climate is mild enough to give us chances to use our “outdoor rooms” year round; covered areas keep the furnishings dry so when there is a break in the January rain we can slip out side (in a sweater) to enjoy a cup of coffee with out having to haul out a chair from storage. I use my covered patio year round; it is an extension of my living room.
Here are some pix I put up for my friend who could not go on this tour. The first pix shows a long view of their "outdoor room" and the fifth and six pix show closer views. Hard to see, but on the far wall are slatted panels that can be closed for colder weather.
Not a bad greenhouse or potting "shed" either! The last pix shows part of the playground for their 5 year old.
Sterhill,
Very nicely done !
Love the stone work in the fireplace and the potting shed has sparked an idea for another outdoor kitchen that I'll be working on this fall.
Thanks for the link, and your photography was wonderful too.
Toad Lily,
Careful what you wish for, cuz dreams really can come true.
: ~ )
When designing an outdoor oven for a new client there will be lots of fun new information for you to sort threw.
The more we install , the more we get feed back.
And I am finding that folks are happily coming around to the thought that a wood burning fireplace is not all that it is cracked up to be and that a propane fired set up with a great set of faux logs or a metal sculpture set in the fireplace / fire ring is really much more desirable in the long run.
A couple of pros for a propane set up : Easy peasy pie to ignite and then 'turn off' when you're ready for bed time.
No need to douse the fire with water and then have a mess on your hands the following morning or waiting around for the wood logs to safely burn down.
- No smelly hair or clothes. It is amazing the amount of smoke smell that permeates your clothes and hair after just a couple minutes exposed to a wood burning fire.
- No lugging of fire wood .
As far as BBQ'ing goes, I am starting to get hooked on pellet bbq stoves.
Wow ! what a difference in flavor when cooking on a pellet bbq as opposed to a regular gas fired bbq.
It does take about 5 to 7 minutes longer to get the wood pellets ground down in the hopper and into the smoke chamber but the final outcome of your food is amazing.
You don't need a gas line or a propane tank but you do require an electrical outlet to ignite the burner that heats up and fires the wood pellets.
The pellet stove brand that we have been spec'ing is called 'Traeger'.
When spec'ing an outdoor oven , warming drawer and bbq I usually stay loyal to Viking, but have installed others.
Deviant: I work / live about 35 miles north of the Traeger factory; I definitely plan to check them out when it is time to purchase my next grill. The instant lighting of gas is nice, but I like the flavor of the charcoal better; we even grill pizza on our Webber, the flavor is great.
I have suggested gas fire pits to several of my clients, but so far they have all wanted the crackle of wood, and my husband would never go for a gas fire! There is really somthing nice about sitting around the fire with friends taking turns adding wood and poking the coals. Here in the Pacific Northwest we need our wood fires.
Can you toast marshmallows on a gas fire?
Yes.
If one escapes the prongs of your skewer and falls into the fire it eventually just burns up.
What you don't want to do though is turn the gas off and let the 'mellows stick to and melt on the fire coil . They could plug up one of the fire holes.
we are building a patio now. we are going to put in a "built in " grill(we will be able to pull the grill out and store it during the winter). fridges and sinks would not work here. but we are thinking about a fire pit. we eat outside as soon as it gets above 50, usually april - oct, but we have had barbecues in january and february in the middle of snow storms. instead of beer and soda we have hot cider with rum, or cocoa with butterscotch schnapps.
Well now, I wish I could afford the 'deviant designer" !!!!! We have a HUGE and I mean hube by today's standards back yard with a pool. I would die for these backyard kitchens.
susan
