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Mid-South Gardening: Something Feasting on my brugs?

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justdeb
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2006
3:15 AM

Post #2653712

Help! I thought at first that something was feasting on this brug as all the new growth disappeared overnight. But it's been a couple of weeks and still nothing. At first I speculated that something was returning to get the new growth nightly, but tonight my son pointed out that some of the branches (as entire branches are gone) look like they may have been cut off. There is little new growth on this, what there is, is the same day after day. little sprigs of something (leaves maybe?) that haven't changed size or developed any further. Any ideas?? We've been using 7 dust on it, after the first leaf was sampled quite generously.

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justdeb
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2006
3:16 AM

Post #2653715

another shot.
edited to add:
I pulled a couple of the yellowing leaves off, and they are clearly yellow on the veins. All the veins are yellow, with some yellowing between the veins in a few places. I recall reading something about this in one of these threads recently, but now i can't find it. :-(

This message was edited Aug 23, 2006 11:06 PM

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judycooksey
Pocahontas, TN
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2006
5:34 PM

Post #2655336

Deb,

I am expecting a visit from our County Ag Agent at any moment. Might I suggest you call yours and ask if you can run the plant by their office or if they will come to your house to take a look. I've definitely decided we need to "ask an expert" on these brugs and stop with all the speculation ... therefore I won't offer a guess on yours. Maybe you could send your pictures to them via email.

You'll need to tell them what soil it was planted in and what fertilizer etc you have used. Could just be the heat but I doubt it because of the leaf deterioration otherwise. My experience has been that abnormal watering will just make the leaves turn yellow and fall off starting at the bottom.

Oh, the joys of raising Brugs.

Judy
BigDaddy99
Pocahontas, TN
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2006
7:47 PM

Post #2655713

JustDeb-- County Agent says to identify what is eating a plant such as a brug to get a white piece of paper, hold it under the leaf, thump the top of the leaf and the mites will fall off the bottom of the leaf (where they dine and reproduce) and you can see them -- little black spots moving on their own. A magnifying glass helps.
BigDaddy99
Pocahontas, TN
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2006
7:53 PM

Post #2655733

Spider mite Recognition
Spider mite damage to foliage is similar on all host plants: fine stippling which progresses to an overall bronzing of the leaves. Eggshells and cast skins are usually visible on the underside of damaged leaves when viewed with a hand lens. Mites can be observed by shaking infested leaves over a white piece of paper. The mites are about the size of the period at the end of this sentence.

This message was edited Aug 24, 2006 3:06 PM

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ButterflyChaser
Northeast, AR
(Zone 7a)

August 24, 2006
9:01 PM

Post #2655917

Could be grasshoppers or hornworm. But the hornworm can devour an entire leaf in a day. They're pretty destructive and can destroy a plant in no time. But you would be able to see them. They don't run and hide. I have to watch my brugs and tomato plants because those rascals will get 'em.

Grasshoppers will munch too, and I get such a thrill out of pinching their heads off. Try it! Great stress reliever!
picabo
Nashville, TN
(Zone 6b)

August 24, 2006
9:47 PM

Post #2656039

Deb... Did you see anything that was eaten like this. They did this overnight.

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picabo
Nashville, TN
(Zone 6b)

August 24, 2006
9:52 PM

Post #2656050

I found a horn worm eating the Brugs. I'll post a picture later if you don't know what they look like.

Betty
judycooksey
Pocahontas, TN
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2006
10:05 PM

Post #2656096

ButterflyChaser,

1) 1st picture, leaf on the right side, left side of leaf puckering.

Is this a potential sign of some larva on the backside in a web??

2) Next leaf to the left, puckering just starting on the right side around the edge

Got any ideas??

3) Are those growing points which have been destroyed?

I'm not good at this stuff when I can reach out and touch the plant, much less looking at pictures of just sections of the brug.

Judy

justdeb
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2006
10:16 PM

Post #2656126

I'll try the paper thing and see, I don't see anything eating it, but my eyes aren't great. I thought maybe it was cicadas, since I found a dead one dead nearby a few weeks ago.

Betty - They eat that much and more in one night. Some of the largest, top leaves, have been completely removed overnight.

I can't tell if the new growth is being stunted or constantly nibbled.

How would I be able to tell if it was horn worms? I know I've had a battle with slugs. Found one that came to invade the planet climbing up the outside of my storm door one night. I am not kidding, no exaggeration, this thing was longer than a coke can, by a considerable amount. It really scared me. I'd say it was at least 7 inches long. Looked more like a small snake.
justdeb
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2006
10:27 PM

Post #2656147

No spider mites. I tried the tapping over paper on all of them.
The others are starting to look bad now too.
The leaves on another one has some discoloring, turning white on an older leaf. Great. I don't know if I should seperate them, or let them be together. Maybe the one that's really bad off is distracting attention away from the others. Not sure what to try next. Extension office won't be an option for several weeks (because of my work schedule).
judycooksey
Pocahontas, TN
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2006
10:50 PM

Post #2656228

Oh My!!! Sorry, this is totally out of my realm of experience and I surely do not want it to become my experience.

Slugs should leave a slim trail that you would notice on the leaves or what was left of the leaf, stem, side of the pot etc.

Good Luck,

Judy
picabo
Nashville, TN
(Zone 6b)

August 24, 2006
10:53 PM

Post #2656236

Hi Deb. Just have a minute. Here is a picture of one of the ones eating my Brugs. I picked them off and put them in the trash can. There were several on the brugs. Look on the underside of the leaves at the edge.

Also watch for little poos on top of the leaf. A good indication that they are hiding there. They are about the size of my thumb. Got to go DH needs the puter.

Betty

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judycooksey
Pocahontas, TN
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2006
11:09 PM

Post #2656279

OOOOH Gross!!!! Great picture, Betty.

Judy
picabo
Nashville, TN
(Zone 6b)

August 25, 2006
12:19 AM

Post #2656433

I can't stand those little guys. LOL
justdeb
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 25, 2006
3:10 AM

Post #2656944

I'm thinking about putting it in my garage.
It has a window, and if it is critters that are coming to visit, I'd probably see a bit of growth again in a few days if I remove it from the buffet line, right? Maybe? Please?
FlowrLady
-South Central-, IL
(Zone 6a)

August 25, 2006
10:14 PM

Post #2659404

I got three hornworms off my datura the other day, big, FAT ones! It gives me great pleasure to smash them under my shoe. If I'm barefooted, I'll smush them with my foot! I HATE them. They ate almost all of my datura before I found them. They crawled off the tomato plant onto the datura.

All these things (above) are why I don't have brugs and daturas much. I just don't have the patience to babysit... They are SO beautiful, and I love to look at y'all's pictures, but it seems they can't exist without constant care and attention.

good luck, you guys!
justdeb
Birmingham, AL
(Zone 7b)

August 26, 2006
2:45 AM

Post #2660177

What kills horn worms? (besides FlowrLady) :-)
What kills cicadas (besides the cicada killers that I now try to lure into my yard)?
It looks better now that it spent the night and day in the cooler garage. It's perked up, no new growth, but it's only been one day. It turned to face the window. It may have been traumatized by all the 7 dust we used last month?
picabo
Nashville, TN
(Zone 6b)

August 26, 2006
2:57 AM

Post #2660227

I discovered the worms can't swim. When you go for your morning walk about just carry along a soda can half full of something wet. Scrape the little nibblers into the can and they are history. Just don't forget and take a drink. LOL
judycooksey
Pocahontas, TN
(Zone 7b)

August 26, 2006
3:09 AM

Post #2660326

FYI!!

I'm doing a Brug Slash and Burn Tomorrow
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/643963/

Judy

I don't know if I will have any cuttings to share at the RU or not... I certainly do not want to pass along mites.
FlowrLady
-South Central-, IL
(Zone 6a)

August 26, 2006
8:00 PM

Post #2662076

I just went to Big Box and got some stuff for hornworms... If I put it on my plants, the hornworms don't live...

If you find a hornworm with a bunch of white eggs attached to its back, don't kill the worm. The parasites are slowly eating him. I believe they are from a 'good' wasp. Sorry my info is so uninformative, but I read somewhere about this, and it is true. You don't have to check Snopes LOL~!

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