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Morning Glories: 1949 seeds

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ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

December 11, 2006
8:10 PM

Post #2990635

THREAD CLOSED...PLEASE GO TO NEW 1949 THREAD.








Here is a better scan of the unopened package.

This message was edited Feb 14, 2007 10:59 AM

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ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

December 11, 2006
8:10 PM

Post #2990637

The back

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ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

December 11, 2006
8:11 PM

Post #2990643

Generous amount of seeds!

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ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

December 11, 2006
8:13 PM

Post #2990649

Close-up of the seeds. Now maybe Ron can enlighten us on what these may be. Would anyone like to join me on the challenge of trying to get these to germinate? I don't want to be the only one on this project, someone else might have some good ideas for germination. If you would like to try, I can send you some of the seeds,
Beth

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ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

December 11, 2006
8:15 PM

Post #2990653

closer

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phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

December 11, 2006
10:13 PM

Post #2990949

thats the year i was born

bluespiral

bluespiral

(Zone 7a)

December 11, 2006
10:16 PM

Post #2990961

Just want you to know I appreciate your offer, but I would really hate to mess up with those. C'mon, experts
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

December 11, 2006
10:17 PM

Post #2990967

Well phicks, the seeds still look plump and juicy!
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

December 11, 2006
10:38 PM

Post #2991064

yup id like totry a couple
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

December 11, 2006
10:39 PM

Post #2991067

Anyone else?
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

December 11, 2006
11:03 PM

Post #2991124

i belive X would like to try
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

December 11, 2006
11:04 PM

Post #2991130

i wonder what that dark one is on the pkg on the right?
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

December 11, 2006
11:14 PM

Post #2991144

I am thinking they are probably ipomoea nil since the package advertises they are "larger than ordinary". Other than that, I don't know what to expect.
RON_CONVOLVULACEAE
Netcong, NJ
(Zone 5b)

December 12, 2006
12:37 AM

Post #2991357

Well,glad to see that you got about 100 seeds...they look like Ipomoea purpurea and/or the smaller sized Ipomoea nil that Thompson & Morgan provide in their 'Early Call Mix"...the flowers(should any sprout) would probably be about 3"...

From what I can see in the photo there seems to be about 8 to 13 seeds that look potentially(!) sproutable...so my guesstimate would be about a 20% germination rate at best,and perhaps 8% might be a more realistic percentage > but I'd consider yourself lucky if any sprout...most look 'kinda' dried out >especially around the edges...

I've sprouted Ipomoea tricolor that were in a paper container in a cool dry basement that were 20 years old...and I've sprouted Ipomoea nil that were in cold storage that were 40 years old,but I've never sprouted Ipomoea nil or Ipomoea purpurea that were 59 years old under less than optimal or otherwise 'unknown' conditions...

My main concern would be from pre-emergent type of "damping off" seedrot...therefore > useage of long-fibered sphagnum moss and air circulation for prevention(?)...Damping off preventative soaks can sometimes by slightly phyto-toxic and although the slight amount of phyto-toxicity would ordinarilly not be of much consequence >in very dormant seeds >it might be...the fungus/slimes may get to the seed(s) before they can germinate and develop immunity and the pre-emergent soaks may also be 'too' toxic for the old seeds...

Warm water > about 90 degrees,...I'd give 'em 75-80degrees during the day with 70-75 degrees at night...

The gibberelic acids that Deno has used are not the GA's most prevalent in Ipomoea seeds...GA's are not always stimulating to germination and can be inhibitory...

Just a few thoughts...

TTY,...

Ron

Xeramtheum
Summerville, SC
(Zone 8a)

December 12, 2006
1:31 AM

Post #2991510

Yeah .. throw a few my way if you like. What's a few more morning glory's added to the 15+ already growing in the greenhouse. (Come March I'm going to need a machete to get in there I think, Ron's Xenostegia is intimidating the brugmansia at the moment, I have to keep unwinding it from the poor things and back onto it's sticks. Ron, that thing grows at least and inch and a half a day!) I'm in the addy.

X

luvsgrtdanes

luvsgrtdanes
(Ronnie), PA
(Zone 6b)

December 12, 2006
2:57 AM

Post #2991748

I don't have a green house but I'd be willing to give it a go under lights if you want me to try.
EmmaGrace
Jacksonville, TX
(Zone 8a)

December 12, 2006
3:12 AM

Post #2991826

Oh Yes!

My hand is up...
I'll be more than happy to give a few seeds a try.
How interesting this will be if anyone gets blooms.

Emma

atenkley
Robertsdale, AL
(Zone 8b)

December 12, 2006
3:22 AM

Post #2991861

Beth, if your offer still stands, I'd be honored to join in the project. I'm wondering if it makes sense to slowly hydrate the seeds rather than the "nick and soak" routine? Seems like I've read that a slow wake up is good after a long sleep...but then Ron's concern raised about the damping off may lead on to try a speedier approach to minimize the vulnerable stages. Hydrogen peroxide is another thought...though that may be too harsh..

One thing is certain - this will be interesting to see unfold.

Arlan
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

December 12, 2006
2:13 PM

Post #2992652

I`d love to try some.
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

December 12, 2006
5:53 PM

Post #2993263

I am taking down your names (those who are interested). I also contacted OSU to see if anyone would be interested in assisting us.
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

December 12, 2006
9:30 PM

Post #2993843

OSU? the plant Police ? LOL
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

December 12, 2006
9:45 PM

Post #2993887

Haha! Actually we have a National Clonal Germplasm Repository run by the USDA here in Corvallis. I think they are more interested in heirloom agricultural species, though. I was hoping someone at Oregon State University in the Seed Lab might be interested.
imzadi
Jackson, SC
(Zone 8a)

December 12, 2006
9:46 PM

Post #2993891

ill give a few a try
atenkley
Robertsdale, AL
(Zone 8b)

December 13, 2006
1:14 AM

Post #2994376

I think the OSU idea is a great one...and not just because its my alma mater! They may have some great advice if nothing else. - Arlan
fchilders
Clatskanie, OR
(Zone 9b)

December 14, 2006
4:19 AM

Post #2997581

Go, ARLAN, I am a BEAVER TOO! So is Beth and she works in Corvallis, the Horticultural epicenter of the PACIFIC NORTH WEST. That makes 3 Beaves on the mg thread!!!! Hooray!
Go Beavers.
RON_CONVOLVULACEAE
Netcong, NJ
(Zone 5b)

December 14, 2006
6:11 AM

Post #2997700

I'd be very interested to hear what they have to say about germinating Ipomoea nil or Ipomoea purpurea seeds that have been in 'general' non-specific storage for almost 60 years...

TTY,...

Ron


P.S. - tissue culture may be the way to go to insure living plants if there are living embryos in the seeds...
atenkley
Robertsdale, AL
(Zone 8b)

December 14, 2006
1:26 PM

Post #2998168

frank - that's a scary thought!! I sure do miss the PNW - though get back from time to time. - Arlan
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

December 14, 2006
7:16 PM

Post #2999055

The following person did email me back for more information about the seeds:

"Erica G. Bakker
Assistant Professor
Dept. of Horticulture
Center for Genome Research and Biocomputing Oregon State University"

Hopefully they will be interested in our project. I mailed out seeds to all of you that were interested and have retained 75 seeds for the university,
Beth
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

December 14, 2006
10:28 PM

Post #2999453

I`m exited about this and I sure wish you the best of luck with the seeds. It would be very neat to bring seeds this old back to life. Wish me luck with my green thumb trying them out!

I have harvested you some little surprises you can try for yourself as well. I`m going to put some secret mystery hybrids in there too just for fun. :)

This message was edited Dec 14, 2006 5:39 PM
atenkley
Robertsdale, AL
(Zone 8b)

December 15, 2006
12:58 AM

Post #2999845

I guess because the seeds are a mix...anything that grows will certainly be a snapshot of an old genepool with no preconceived standard to compare them to...other than three pictures on the package.

Should be fun! I'm sure I'll come up with a nice return package as well! - Arlan
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

December 15, 2006
4:56 PM

Post #3001446

Mine came today. They look good. I nicked one and I see what looks like what I`m supposed to see and planted it in a clean pot with new dirt and watered it. I have planted one seed and saving others for Spring 2007.

I`ll update within the week and hope it sprouts!



This message was edited Dec 15, 2006 4:43 PM
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

December 16, 2006
6:24 PM

Post #3004260

Well, after one day it appears the seed has hydrated and there is something inside there...hopefully a living baby plant curled up inside. I have the dirt evenly moist and not too soggy. It is in a good spot so this should sprout if it is alive.
RON_CONVOLVULACEAE
Netcong, NJ
(Zone 5b)

December 16, 2006
7:41 PM

Post #3004483

gardener2005 - that is encouraging(!) news...now we'll all be waiting for the report on whether there is still embryonic life(!) present...

phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

December 16, 2006
8:03 PM

Post #3004530

i got mine yesterday i nicked 2 and hydrated in a mix of warm water and mega grow they looked really good i planted mine in straight vermiculite
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

December 17, 2006
3:30 PM

Post #3006272

I`m praying for them. It is Sunday and I`m turning the big 40 :)




P.S.My husband is embarrassing me going around announcing my age to everyone in town... grrr!!! he he :)

This message was edited Dec 17, 2006 10:32 AM
patootie
Jacksonville, AR
(Zone 7b)

December 17, 2006
5:46 PM

Post #3006541

Happy 40th Gardener. 40 is a wonderful age.

Jackie
Xeramtheum
Summerville, SC
(Zone 8a)

December 17, 2006
7:45 PM

Post #3006746

Got my seeds today. I'll keep in touch on how things go.

X
atenkley
Robertsdale, AL
(Zone 8b)

December 18, 2006
2:57 AM

Post #3007748

Happy birthday Gardner!

Thanks Beth, I received mine today as well...or yesterday I guess! Mine are safely logged in and tucked away...while I maybe learn the best approach for them!

Arlan
gardenpom
Melbourne, FL

December 18, 2006
10:17 AM

Post #3007991

If there are any left I would LOVE to try some. I grow from seed all the time. This sounds fascinating...
Xeramtheum
Summerville, SC
(Zone 8a)

December 18, 2006
2:48 PM

Post #3008401

I've planted them! Now we just sit and wait!

X

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luvsgrtdanes

luvsgrtdanes
(Ronnie), PA
(Zone 6b)

December 18, 2006
4:10 PM

Post #3008586

I received my pretty package today. I am going to wait until after Christmas to stat the so they get my full attention.
Thank you Beth for this opportunity.
gardenpom
Melbourne, FL

December 23, 2006
12:14 AM

Post #3019974

I'm anxiously waiting for word of any seeds sprouting...
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

December 23, 2006
1:24 AM

Post #3020106

Not yet...one seed. I checked it and it is plump and if it is alive it will sprout. I give it 10 days...so should be any minute now I hope! I have the rest saved for next spring.
gardenpom
Melbourne, FL

December 23, 2006
11:36 AM

Post #3020647

That's great news!!!
gardenpom
Melbourne, FL

December 23, 2006
10:54 PM

Post #3021633

Hey Beth, got the seeds today. Thanks so much!!! I'll plant two seeds this weekend and save the others for a second attempt. You were so nice to send out the seeds to all who asked. Hope we all have success!
gardenpom
Melbourne, FL

December 24, 2006
11:32 PM

Post #3023568

Two seeds soaking before planting. I notice one is darker than the other.

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Xeramtheum
Summerville, SC
(Zone 8a)

December 25, 2006
3:29 AM

Post #3023797

I am grieved to report that 1 seed split and was rotten inside. The other 4 are swelling too .. I hope I don't have a repeat.

X
gardenpom
Melbourne, FL

December 25, 2006
10:41 AM

Post #3024019

That's too bad. It would sure be nice if we got one or two plants, but with the age of the seeds it does seem highly unlikely. All we can do it try.
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

December 25, 2006
3:34 PM

Post #3024277

Nothing with mine. It looks the same after days and days. My doubt is increasing with the passing of time. I really had doubts any of the 50 plus year old seeds would sprout as Ron mention there is no way of knowing what they have been through. They could have been baked in a hot moving van,exposed to extremes of temperature,some of the seed coats could have tiny cracks from being shaken around or from passage of time that dried them out and what not. I still cling to hope some of them Will sprout!

Lotus seeds are robust and have very thick seed coats and I have read they have sprouted up to 500 years later but the plants had abnormalities.
Xeramtheum
Summerville, SC
(Zone 8a)

December 25, 2006
9:59 PM

Post #3024728

And another one composted itself. Sigh.

X
gardenpom
Melbourne, FL

December 25, 2006
11:15 PM

Post #3024802

Sorry to report the two seeds I was pre-soaking before planting fell apart with no visible sign of anything inside. I will go ahead plant the remaining seeds directly in soil, but it looks likely none of these seeds will germinate.
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

December 26, 2006
12:46 AM

Post #3024919

Mine has something in there. What may be lacking is the miracle of life...sad but probably true for this seed. :(

I`m leaving planted for a while anyway. I`m not ready to give up yet. I will keep the seedhull and the pretty little card baolvera sent for memorabilia.

imzadi
Jackson, SC
(Zone 8a)

December 27, 2006
2:34 PM

Post #3028032

just got my seeds. and its really too cold right now to even try to start them inside or outside. last night it got down to 31 degrees and rainy. i am thinking of trying it on the tv where its warmer at.

will soak one today in cup of water and one the towel method and see what happens. i only have 5 seeds so want to save one for spring which hopefully it will make it.

so tommorow will update on progress.
Xeramtheum
Summerville, SC
(Zone 8a)

December 27, 2006
5:37 PM

Post #3028422

And another one bites the dust ;-(

X
atenkley
Robertsdale, AL
(Zone 8b)

December 28, 2006
2:21 PM

Post #3030608

Beth, any word back from the OSU horticulturist? - Arlan
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

December 28, 2006
5:58 PM

Post #3031105

Beth, I really look forward to hearing form them. I`d be willing to submit my remaining seeds if they needed them or could use them.
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

December 28, 2006
6:18 PM

Post #3031136

I still have plenty of seeds for OSU, should they get back to me. I am not expecting much until after christmas since the university is shut down over the holidays.
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

December 29, 2006
6:03 PM

Post #3033861

I`m freaking out here. I checked and I see the seed has broken around the edges and I see little white barely tinged green folds of cotyledon in there!!! I do not see any root so I worry something is amiss here. I`ll keep waiting.

luvsgrtdanes

luvsgrtdanes
(Ronnie), PA
(Zone 6b)

December 29, 2006
6:35 PM

Post #3033925

Oh that sounds promising. I will be trying mine after the new year.
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

December 29, 2006
9:47 PM

Post #3034453

For the record I started another one today. I put a extra heater in the kitchen and plan on keeping it warm night and day.

ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 2, 2007
3:52 PM

Post #3045617

I am waiting to start mine in the spring. I hope all of you trying don't get discouraged because there may be only a few seeds in the mix that are viable. There is always the possibility that YOU may have that seed.!
gardenpom
Melbourne, FL

January 3, 2007
12:53 AM

Post #3047324

I don't care WHO has the viable seed...I just want one to sprout! I will plant the rest of mine maybe tomorrow...I wanted to wait till I got some new potting mix.
imzadi
Jackson, SC
(Zone 8a)

January 4, 2007
6:04 PM

Post #3052871

i posted on the prayer forums for Imzadi so that is why you all havent heard from her. she says she knows she was supposed to start these but now with her being laid up it will have to wait. hope this is okay. Jade her friend
jasmerr
Merrimac, WI
(Zone 4b)

January 4, 2007
6:08 PM

Post #3052883

Jade,

Thanks for posting.

Here is the link to the Prayer Request for imzadi: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/681715/
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 4, 2007
6:20 PM

Post #3052914

No problem imzadi, some of us are waiting till spring to try these.
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 4, 2007
7:16 PM

Post #3053067

The following is the reply I got as to these 1949 seeds from the government agency. Looks like we are on our own!
Beth






Hello Beth,
The best advice I can give is to nick the seed coat, use a fungicide to treat the seed, and keep them warm until they germinate.
You can reach me at 770 228 7303.
Bob Jarret

------- Forwarded message follows -------
From: tfields@ars-grin.gov
Organization: Plant Genetic Resources Conservation Unit
To: bjarret@ars-grin.gov
Date sent: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 11:19:55 -0500
Subject: Re: Beth Olvera
Priority: normal

Jarret,

I do not have a complete mailing address so I will just file the paperwork unless you want to contact her for an address.

Thanks,
Tiffany

-----------------------------

On 4 Jan 2007 at 10:56, bjarret@ars-grin.gov wrote:

From: bjarret@ars-grin.gov
To: tfields@ars-grin.gov
Date sent: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:56:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Beth Olvera
Priority: normal

Letter only.

On 4 Jan 2007 at 9:27, tfields@ars-grin.gov wrote:

> Jarret,
>
> I was just checking on the status of this request.
>
> Please let me know how you would like me to proceed and if you
have
> any questions.
>
> Thanks,
> Tiffany
>
> -----------------------
>
> On 13 Dec 2006 at 16:09, bjarret@ars-grin.gov wrote:
>
> From: Self
> To: bjarret@ars-grin.gov
> Subject: Beth Olvera
> Copies to: s9lc@ars-grin.gov
> Date sent: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:09:22 -0500
>
> Jarret,
>
> We received this email below forwarded by Maryann Loftus from a
> cooperator asking about "morning glories". I just wanted to pass it
> on for your information since it is your crop. If you correspond with
> the cooperator please cc' me for the files.
>
> Please let me know if you have any questions.
>
> Thanks,
> Tiffany
>
> --------------------------
>
> Date sent: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 14:32:36 -0500 (EST)
> From: Maryann Loftus
> To: Lee Ann Chalkley
> Subject: question (fwd)
>
> Lee Ann,
>
> Thought you might like to give this one a whirl since you all are the
> site for morning glories.
>
> Maryann
>
> ---------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:24:53 -0600
> From: "Olvera, Beth A"
> To: mloftus@ars-grin.gov
> Subject: question
>
> I am looking for assistance in sprouting a number of morning glory
> seeds stored since 1949. These seem to be in good shape and
viability
> for these seeds ranges from 50 to 100 years. Is there anyone in the
> college that would be interested in assisting in this endeavor. Due
> to the high mutability and genetic drift of morning glories we may
> "rediscover" heirlooms.
>
> Beth Olvera
>


Dr. Robert L. Jarret
USDA/ARS/SAA
Plant Genetic Resources
1109 Experiment Street
Griffin, GA 30224
Tel: 770/228-7303
FAX: 770/228-7282


------- End of forwarded message ------- Dr. Robert L. Jarret USDA/ARS/SAA Plant Genetic Resources
1109 Experiment Street
Griffin, GA 30224
Tel: 770/228-7303
FAX: 770/228-7282

phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 4, 2007
7:28 PM

Post #3053087

my 2 bit the dust i may take one of my remaining 3 and try to clone
Xeramtheum
Summerville, SC
(Zone 8a)

January 5, 2007
3:53 AM

Post #3054637

I'm down to 1 seed .. doesn't look like its going to do anything ;-(.

X
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

January 5, 2007
3:30 PM

Post #3055456

I have nothing resulting and this last seed rehydrated and composted right away while the first one showed an attempt to sprout but was not sucsessful.
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 5, 2007
3:35 PM

Post #3055467

Have any of you tried using an anti-fungal like the guy at the government agency suggested?
gardenpom
Melbourne, FL

January 6, 2007
12:44 AM

Post #3057120

I think I have some Fungicide...I'll try some before I plant my last ones.
RON_CONVOLVULACEAE
Netcong, NJ
(Zone 5b)

January 6, 2007
3:43 PM

Post #3058590

Beth - As mentioned in my first response

"My main concern would be from pre-emergent type of "damping off" seedrot...therefore > useage of long-fibered sphagnum moss and air circulation for prevention(?)...
Damping off preventative soaks can sometimes by slightly phyto-toxic and although the slight amount of phyto-toxicity would ordinarilly not be of much consequence
>in very dormant seeds >it might be...the fungus/slimes may get to the seed(s) before they can germinate and develop immunity and the pre-emergent soaks may also be 'too' toxic for the old seeds..."

Many pathogens reside on the seedcoat but virus, bacterial and fungal pathogens can be pre-existent and reside deep within the seedcoat as well as gaining access by penetration of the moistened swollen seed coats,rotting the seed before or as it attempts to germinate and emerge...Cracked or damaged seeds allows pathogens increased pre-access to the embryonic tissue...
These pathogens particularly the fungi can spread and destroy seeds during cold-stratification and during germination causing the diseases known as seedrot, pre-emergency damping-off and post-emergency damping-off.
The pathogens may be seed-borne,soil-borne,water-borne,air or sail-borne...
The presence of organic debris e.g., dead infested seed,empty seedshells,leaf and stem matter,seed wings,serves as reservoirs for pathogens.
The infected seeds are turned into a rotten mass consisting primarily of fungus and plant substances such as suberin and lignin, which the fungus cannot break down.

The host plant seeds or seedling tissues exudates serve as nutrients and germination mediums that can be cleansed or draw and dissperse the exudates away from the germinating seed will help to prevent pathogenic infection >especially of slow starting or dormant seeds...

Seed can generally be effectively disinfected with a 2 - 5 minute soak in a bleach(sodium hypochlorite) solution diluted 1:10 with water and containing a drop of wetting agent such as dish detergent and I personally would not recommend soaking in dilute clorox for longer than 5 minutes due to increased potential harm to the embryo...the 5 minute soak may not be able to reach pathogens that are deeply imbedded in the seedcoat and/or in the embryonic tissue...therefore a less phyto-toxic anti-fungal like the copper or oxine benzoate would be potentially more useful as a deeper soak and/or as a longer term anti-fungal...
A fungicide that penetrates into all cracks and crevices of the seedcoat and penetrates deeply into the seed to disinfects sprouting germ tissue >killing internal fungus spores besides killing organisms on the surface of the seeds and in the local environment is ideal...


These seed and seedling diseases e.g., seed rot (of the embryo while still encased in the seedcoat),pre-emergent/premergence(before the seedling emerges above the surface) and post-emergent/emergence(after the seedling breaks the surface of the medium) tend to be more problematic in cool soils,. particularly from Pythium ultimum, ...but there are pathogens that prefer warmer soils > so there are no absolutes...


Planting should generally be done when temperatures are favorable for fast plant growth >but there are ambivalent environmental factors when addressing dormant seeds...
Cool and wet may be required to remove certain germination inhibitors...modulating denaturing chemical changes in proteins and fatty acids...

seed coat injury,compacted mediums,poor air circulation and poor drainage > wet soggy conditions contribute to various "damping off" diseases...planting depth,seed age/viability and genetic resistance are all also relevant factors contributing to germination sucess...
shallow planting allows for better aeration...

There are some studies that indicate that the seedcoat modulates the effects of potassium (K) on the germinating embryo...so removal of the seedcoat is not always a good thing,but basically if I see germination >I try to very carefully assist the sprout in removing the seedcoat...


Some of the seed rot and seedling disease pathogens include:


Fusarium sp - mostly seed-borne but also soil-borne seed rot favors cool wet soils - often(but not always) pink tinged - produces zearalenone, vomitoxin et al mycotoxins
Pythium - mostly soil-borne seed rot favors cool wet soils - considered water molds similar to algae with spores that can move on their own (zoospores), swim through moisture often brown to black in color
Phytophthora sp - more active in warm soil.
Diplodia maydis / Stenocarpella et al species - prefers warm moist - tan proceeding to dark brown and black - Diplosporin mycotoxin
Penicillium - favors high temperatures
Rhizoctonia sp -
Gonatobotrys sp -
Phomopsis sp -
Hemiparasitic bacteria -

Helminthosporium sp -
Aspergillus sp - produces aflatoxin
Trichoderma sp -
Bipolaris sp -
Alternaria sp -
Bacteria sp -
Cladosporium -
Mucor -
Rhizopus -
Sphaceloteca -
Macrophomina -

I've used preventative anti-fungal for the initial soak and in all followup hydration applications with excellent results...but all anti-fungals have some phyto-toxic/germination inhibiting qualities...

The copper sulphate and copper octanoate are usually effective against both cool and warm temperature pathogens...the No Damp is also an excellent product...

Here are some reference links...

No Damp (oxine benzoate) carried by many Canadian suppliers,but hard to locate in the US...reported to be more effective for cool environment pathogens...
http://www.veseys.com/ca/en/store/tools/indoorseed/nodamp

http://sci.agr.ca/london/emp/traquairj_e.htm
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cangard/msg0307583421337.html?6


http://www.bonide.com/
Liquid Copper(copper octanoate)
http://longacresfarm.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=845
http://stonebrothers.com/products.php?pid=654&openparent=116
LIQUID FUNGICIDE


BONIDE PRODUCT 811 FUNG LIQ COPPER 4E PT
http://www2.acehardwareoutlet.com/(nlznxq55v2bslg2u4h3l2b55)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=7024375&Source=froogle

PT LIQUI-COP FUNGICIDE
Monterey Lawn & Garden
http://doitbest.com/DoItBest/Main.aspx?PageID=64&sku=727419&memberid=0129&associate=true
GRO-TONE LIQUID COPPER FUNGICIDE


Copper Dust or Spray(Bordo) - 7% copper
http://www.opentip.com/products/Copper_Dust_Or_Spray-518262.html
http://shop.horticultureguy.com/index.php?action=item&id=468
NUTRA SPRAY COPPER BORDEAUX


Rotenone copper dust - 7% copper
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Product.jsp?REG_NR=00234200842&DIST_NR=002342
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Docs/ref_products.html#Producer
COPPER-ROTENONE 7-1 DUST
KILCOP DUST N0. 3 (7.42% COPPER FUNGICIDE)
BORDEAUX MIXTURE


Rotenone Dragoon dust
http://www.merrifieldgardencenter.com/products.php?pid=10471&openparent=116
http://www2.acehardwareoutlet.com/(qm40k0apisrnh1bau31j1e45)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=7135585&Source=froogle

copper products
http://www.alibaba.com/productsearch/Copper_Sulphate.html
http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/pesticides.tcl?edf_substance_id=7440-50-8


toxicity of copper sulphate
http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/coppersu.htm

sometimes effective natural alternatives include

compost tea - source of organisms that compete with various post emergent "damping off" type of pathogens > but not as effective as copper for seed rot pre-emergent pathogens

chamomile tea
cinnamon - freshly ground

hardwood ashes - potash/potassium content


No Damp Sphagnum - contains no dirt or peat - my personal favorite for germinating with the best drainage whilst retaining adequate moisture and best allowance of air circulation
http://lawn-and-garden.hardwarestore.com/77-494-seed-starting-soil/no-damp-off-seed-start-657364.aspx


Hope this helps...

TTY,...

Ron

bluespiral

bluespiral

(Zone 7a)

January 6, 2007
4:17 PM

Post #3058704

Ron, your post has got to be the most comprehensive, useful post on germination I have ever seen. Must be quite a metabolic dance going on in those seeds which such a host of bad guys. Thank you. A deer just busted through our fence (This balmy weather has prolonged a great crop of chard that's been taunting it for some time now) - will cross-post this in some other forums later this eve.
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 6, 2007
7:52 PM

Post #3059311

i have one breaking tho the soil
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

January 6, 2007
9:09 PM

Post #3059502

I can`t wait to see how it turns out.
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 6, 2007
9:38 PM

Post #3059580

i hope it makes it
marie_
West Central, WI
(Zone 4a)

January 6, 2007
9:41 PM

Post #3059592

I've been lurking here and just wanted to let you all know that I am facinated. I've gleaned so much information on seed propagation, while anxiously hoping that some of the seeds will not only germinate but eventually flower.

bluespiral

bluespiral

(Zone 7a)

January 7, 2007
2:49 AM

Post #3060694

I wouldn't mind hourly reports, Phicks - momentous news
atenkley
Robertsdale, AL
(Zone 8b)

January 7, 2007
3:21 AM

Post #3060809

Paul, do you have a camera capable of some close-ups?! This is exciting! - Arlan
RON_CONVOLVULACEAE
Netcong, NJ
(Zone 5b)

January 7, 2007
7:10 AM

Post #3061119

Paul - We Want To See It(!)...We Want To See It(!)...We Want To See It(!)...
chanted indefinitely until 'radical'(!) closeup pictorial demands are met...

Hi marie(!) - Glad to hear from you...we were all just 'lurkers' at some point...but you may find enjoying these as a passive 'spectator' sport doesn't quite do the trick...remember these are invasive plants that actively 'get into your blood'...for life...it is inevitable...the seed has been planted in your mind...

TTY,...

Ron

P.S. - Paul...don't lose any of the historical parts like the 'actual' historical seed casing...
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 7, 2007
11:24 AM

Post #3061210

ill get some pictures this morning all i did to this one was stick it in some vermiculite and it was out side on my porch in the mini green housei thought it was a weed at first but its a mg it looks a bit odd to me

luvsgrtdanes

luvsgrtdanes
(Ronnie), PA
(Zone 6b)

January 7, 2007
12:10 PM

Post #3061256

Hooray!!! Hurry get the pictures...
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 7, 2007
12:31 PM

Post #3061282

here it is in my mini greenhouse on the porch

Thumbnail by phicks
Click the image for an enlarged view.

phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 7, 2007
12:32 PM

Post #3061283

another pic

Thumbnail by phicks
Click the image for an enlarged view.

gardenpom
Melbourne, FL

January 7, 2007
2:49 PM

Post #3061656

Congratulations on having the first seed to germinate! We will all be watching the story as this one grows. I am going to plant mine as you did (in vermiculite) and hope I get one also. Please keep us updated.
marie_
West Central, WI
(Zone 4a)

January 7, 2007
2:51 PM

Post #3061663

Ron...I've just been lurking ove here in hopes to pick up some propagation tips. We just haven't been hanging out in the same forums.

bluespiral

bluespiral

(Zone 7a)

January 7, 2007
5:10 PM

Post #3062041

Beats walking on the moon for practicality, but same kind of high
patootie
Jacksonville, AR
(Zone 7b)

January 7, 2007
6:14 PM

Post #3062261

LOL Blue

Paul, simply amazing!!!

phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 7, 2007
6:34 PM

Post #3062323

id say just lucky
patootie
Jacksonville, AR
(Zone 7b)

January 7, 2007
6:41 PM

Post #3062348

Maybe that too. :~)

luvsgrtdanes

luvsgrtdanes
(Ronnie), PA
(Zone 6b)

January 7, 2007
7:37 PM

Post #3062513

WOOHOO!!
QueenB
Shepherd, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 7, 2007
7:56 PM

Post #3062583

KEWL!! Can't wait to see what it turns out to be!
atenkley
Robertsdale, AL
(Zone 8b)

January 7, 2007
10:55 PM

Post #3063141

Beth doesn't know yet, does she?!!

Paul. I'd say lucky is good!

Arlan
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 7, 2007
11:24 PM

Post #3063234

i e mailed her
CoreHHI
Bluffton, SC
(Zone 9a)

January 8, 2007
3:41 AM

Post #3064020

That doesn't really look like a MG. If it is, it should be well on it's way now. We'll know in a few weeks. I call first seeds on that if it's a MG. This is interesting, Dave's could be the first web site with it's own speciality plant.
RON_CONVOLVULACEAE
Netcong, NJ
(Zone 5b)

January 8, 2007
4:32 AM

Post #3064126

The cotyledons look like an definite Ipomoea to me...although the taper of the lobes looks atypical for either Ipomoea purpurea or Ipomoea nil...closer to Ipomoea obscura,I.ochracea or Ipomoea lobata...

Will be interesting to see what it turns out to be...'jokers' are always a bit 'wild'...

TTY,...

Ron
Gerris2
Wilmington, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 8, 2007
4:48 AM

Post #3064145

I missed the beginning of the story. Beth, where did you obtain this packet?

Joseph
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 8, 2007
3:21 PM

Post #3064952

Good work Paul!!!! Definitely looks like a baby MG to me! The 1949 unopened packet was advertised on ebay and I bought it (under $10).

Since you were born the same year as this seed, it's especially appropriate!

This message was edited Jan 8, 2007 8:31 AM
QueenB
Shepherd, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 8, 2007
7:33 PM

Post #3065527

I saw those and thought about buying one, if anything for framing the packet. If I see them again, I just may go ahead and buy one to see what happens.
Gerris2
Wilmington, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 8, 2007
7:39 PM

Post #3065539

Who was the seller?
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 8, 2007
7:59 PM

Post #3065579

I'd have to look back at the old ebay records to be sure...but I think it was paperseller or something like that? Not a seed seller, just something they came across in an estate liquidation.
BlueGlancer
South/Central, FL
(Zone 9a)

January 8, 2007
8:03 PM

Post #3065586

A new BABY! Way to go phicks. : )
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 8, 2007
9:18 PM

Post #3065812

Found it! The seller was "paperseeker"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220018823416
Gerris2
Wilmington, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 8, 2007
11:39 PM

Post #3066303

Thanks, Beth! I looked at similar items and saw a couple familiar ebay names bidding! LOL
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 9, 2007
3:33 PM

Post #3068014

No doubt!
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 10, 2007
4:31 PM

Post #3071177

I still have more of these 1949 seeds if anyone else wants to try. I am hoping Paul's baby will flourish and produce seeds, so we can name a new(old) strain "1949".
Gerris2
Wilmington, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 10, 2007
4:57 PM

Post #3071259

Hi Beth, can I try some out, please?

Joseph
budgielover
Pinellas Park, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 10, 2007
5:00 PM

Post #3071274

Beth,
I'd like to try a couple if you have any left.
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 10, 2007
5:24 PM

Post #3071358

Sure, if you are not in the address file just LMK your mailing addresses.
Gerris2
Wilmington, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 10, 2007
5:28 PM

Post #3071368

I am in the address exchange, Beth. Thanks!
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 10, 2007
8:12 PM

Post #3071846

Hey Gerris 2 a ham sandwich walks in to a bar room and says to the bar keep give me a drink the bar keep looks down at him and says soory we dont serve food here LOLLOL
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 10, 2007
8:14 PM

Post #3071849

the baby MG is still alive but does not seem to be doing any thing ill wait a day then take more pics Paul
Gerris2
Wilmington, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 10, 2007
8:18 PM

Post #3071870

Too funny, Paul! LOL

So a Polar Bear walks into the tavern, not long after ham sandwich, and sits down at the bar. The bartender asked "What'll it be?" to which the bear leaned on his arm, stared at the ceiling and thought and thought and thought. The bartender then asked "Why the big PAUSE?" LOL
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 10, 2007
8:25 PM

Post #3071887

LOL

luvsgrtdanes

luvsgrtdanes
(Ronnie), PA
(Zone 6b)

January 10, 2007
8:40 PM

Post #3071926

A horse walks into a bar and the bartender says "Hey, why the long face?"
Sorry but I couldn't resist. Now back to Beth's seeds!! LOL
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 10, 2007
8:52 PM

Post #3071949

Ha Ha! "why the long face?" works for english bullterriers, too!
kbaumle
Northwest, OH
(Zone 5b)

January 10, 2007
11:43 PM

Post #3072504

I would love to try a few of these!
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 11, 2007
4:24 PM

Post #3074342

I'll get these out to those requesting. Since the government and universities aren't going to help us, it will be up to us hobbyists to do our best.
Gerris2
Wilmington, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 12, 2007
1:20 AM

Post #3075663

Charles Dickens walks into the tavern, on the heels, as it were, of the Polar Bear, and sits down at the bar. The bartender asked "What'll it be, Chas?". Mr. Dickens replied "I will have a martini" to which the bartender asked "olive, or twist?".
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 12, 2007
2:13 AM

Post #3075780

Chuckles

Thumbnail by phicks
Click the image for an enlarged view.

QueenB
Shepherd, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 12, 2007
2:29 AM

Post #3075817

LOL okay, that joke I can appreciate!
gardenpom
Melbourne, FL

January 14, 2007
12:46 PM

Post #3082430

Sorry to report my final three seeds failed to germinate. They just seemed to disappear in the sowing mix.
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 16, 2007
3:49 PM

Post #3089573

We were hit with freezing weather and ice on the roads (okay, people who live in REALLY cold weather can laugh) and the pipes have been frozen for three days. I'll get to the PO today to get the next round of seeds mailed out.
Gerris2
Wilmington, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 20, 2007
6:02 PM

Post #3103690

I received the seeds, Beth! I will get them all going tonight and see what happens!

Joseph
Gerris2
Wilmington, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 21, 2007
11:27 AM

Post #3105581

I found the seed coat of these morning glory seeds to be very hard. This morning I saw 5 seeds showing signs of imbibation so that is a good sign.

luvsgrtdanes

luvsgrtdanes
(Ronnie), PA
(Zone 6b)

January 21, 2007
12:37 PM

Post #3105693

Joseph how are you starting them?
Gerris2
Wilmington, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 21, 2007
1:11 PM

Post #3105779

Ronnie,

I am starting them as I do any other MG, I chipped the seed coat, then soaked these overnight, and now have the seeds in moist paper toweling in a ziploc bag. Several of the enlarged seeds do not look so good. They have the look of the seeds that have gone to that big trellis in the sky look.

Joseph
SW_gardener

(Zone 6a)

January 21, 2007
5:42 PM

Post #3107346

Hi,
I just found this thread and what your all doing is fantastic, I hope you get atleast one that blooms!
This thread seems to have a definite following! Good work Beth!

Happy Gardening,
Steve
jasmerr
Merrimac, WI
(Zone 4b)

January 21, 2007
7:27 PM

Post #3107614

phicks,

How's is the baby MG?
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

January 21, 2007
11:53 PM

Post #3108427

its not doing a lot it has a few more leaves but seems weak
atenkley
Robertsdale, AL
(Zone 8b)

January 22, 2007
12:22 AM

Post #3108541

...more leaves is good!! Always hopeful! - Arlan
SW_gardener

(Zone 6a)

January 22, 2007
12:28 AM

Post #3108569

More leaves means it can absorb more sun so thats good!
fchilders
Clatskanie, OR
(Zone 9b)

January 22, 2007
12:32 AM

Post #3108585

I can't keep my mouth shut anymore. Folks, we need to revisit the sensitivity of a germinating seed as mentioned several times at least by Ron. We should take a closer look at a germinated seed and look more closely at what we are seeing. We need to see what we are looking at and learn some of the jargon that goes with potting etc. I would like us to take a closer look at the recently germinated seed. What is there? Brand new roots barely bigger than they were in the embryo before germination. Stem? I should say not!!! That thing you are probably calling a stem is a hypocotyl, the umbilical cord between the rootlet and the cotyledons where the rootlets are still getting their nutrition. The hypocotyl needs to get it's own recognition, because of it's extremely high level of vulnerability. If you don't think it is vulnerable, just bruise one. I might be going out on a limb, but what the heck, bruises to the hypocotyl ARE DEATH. They are so easily injured. The main purpose of the hypocotyl is to transmit nutrients from the cotyledons, down to the rootlets. When the cotyledons have sent all they have, then having developed enough chlorophyll, they now can send food UP to the new leaf and other organs begining to develop. By the time you have grown two or three real new leaves, the hypocotyl has developed a good rind on it and the cotyledons are about to fall off, their job finished. This completes the most vulnerable period in this plant's life, SURVING BIRTH. Whoever we are, man or woman, we are the mothers of these seedlings, and like a cow we have to protect the new born from the predators. We need to provide temp, moisture, light, so simple for us. The cow has to eat the afterbirth to keep the coyotes from getting the calf the night of its birth. We do this with sterile seedling media. Yes, STERILE, STERILE, STERILE, or at least as sterile as you can get.. If you cannot replace the seeds, it would be stupid to think any other way. If we have 2# of last years seeds, then we can gamble and start over again and again. I have spent over $5 per seed on special seeds and failed at temp because I didn't take the time to find out the temp in the windosill, below 60 degrees! I hope you can profit from my mistakes, through this place to share.
I had better post this now before my "CUSSED 350" freezes again, and I can continue with these rantings about seedlings and their vulnerablility later. We need to endorse a protocol of planting mix terminology so that we are all on the same page. What is compost, dirt, soil, potting mix, top soil etc. Later Frank
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 22, 2007
5:29 PM

Post #3110749

I wired a rheostat to my big crock pot so I can carefully control the temp. of the peat pots with perlite in them for sprouting.
Gerris2
Wilmington, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 23, 2007
1:11 AM

Post #3112246

I am very sorry to report that all the seeds in my lot shipment were not viable. Thank you for letting me have a chance to grow them, Beth!

Joseph
kbaumle
Northwest, OH
(Zone 5b)

January 23, 2007
1:17 AM

Post #3112269

I received mine today and will start getting them ready to go tomorrow. Stay tuned! Thanks for letting me try!
fchilders
Clatskanie, OR
(Zone 9b)

January 23, 2007
1:18 AM

Post #3112274

BRILLIANT, Beth. necessity is the mother of invention. I once wrapped xmas lights around the water pipes to keep them from freezing. It worked. Now all you need is one of those $40 thermostats to keep the temp where you want it for sure. Ace Hdw has them. Something else you might get inventive with, is one of the hot rocks for lizards at the local pet store. They come in different sizes and they are designed to keep the lizard around 80 degrees, with a 6' cord. This puppy can do a lot of things for you when you are working with irreplaceable seeds.
I just got from Park seeds two boxes of the styrfoam blocks with cone shaped holes and dig this, some kind of sponge plugs the color of peat. They are outstanding. Very very strong plastic, not disposable. They are a little pricey, but, you only live once. One of the bags of extra plugs tore open and some of them went onto the floor, and they didn't expload and make a mess, so I had to take a closer look. WOW, a sponge like fibery thing that stays in one piece. Now I can get serious about my fried egg poppy seeds. I think I will even get some more. You stirred up the inventor in ME. Good luck with the crock pot method. Frank
KayJones
Lee's Summit, MO
(Zone 6a)

January 23, 2007
5:28 PM

Post #3114295

Two of the four seeds I received from this sweet person have germinated and are planted up, just poking their heads thru the soil
Gerris2
Wilmington, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 23, 2007
6:12 PM

Post #3114431

Rejoice! Rejoice!
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 23, 2007
6:33 PM

Post #3114493

YES!!!!!!

luvsgrtdanes

luvsgrtdanes
(Ronnie), PA
(Zone 6b)

January 23, 2007
6:33 PM

Post #3114495

Hip Hip Hooray!!
kbaumle
Northwest, OH
(Zone 5b)

January 23, 2007
6:38 PM

Post #3114520

KayJones, I'm getting ready to start mine. Please tell me what you did exactly...
marie_
West Central, WI
(Zone 4a)

January 23, 2007
6:48 PM

Post #3114560

This lurker rejoices with the rest of you!
kbaumle
Northwest, OH
(Zone 5b)

January 23, 2007
10:24 PM

Post #3115190

I put mine in warm water to soak overnight and I noticed that five seeds sank, and two floated. I seem to remember some discussion about sinkers and floaters in this forum last year...
QueenB
Shepherd, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 24, 2007
12:32 AM

Post #3115562

Goody goody goody!!!
KayJones
Lee's Summit, MO
(Zone 6a)

January 24, 2007
11:40 AM

Post #3116558

I use a seed sprouter similar to this one to germinate all my seeds - it takes care of itself except for changing the water - I have several of these units and just love them:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cooksgarden.com/images/586T.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cooksgarden.com/departments.asp%3Fdept%3D1243%26lvl%3D1060%26dpt%3D1&h=100&w=100&sz=20&hl=en&sig2=XRKoEgJMHAdUb9lTRIuzQA&start=49&tbnid=f2fs56tCE6goaM:&tbnh=82&tbnw=82&ei=RFO3RdPjMIikiQG_q82FBQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgrow%2Byour%2Bown%2Bsprouts%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26rls%3DHPIA,HPIA:2006-13,HPIA:en%26sa%3DN
kbaumle
Northwest, OH
(Zone 5b)

January 24, 2007
1:59 PM

Post #3116969

I awoke this morning to find five seeds still intact, and two have burst open. One has a little 'tail' and one split in half. I'll be planting them in Jiffy peat plug pots and keeping them in a warm, bright room. This is what I did with my morning glories that I started early last spring.

I want to mention that when I started my seeds last spring inside, some germinated right away and it seemed that some didn't germinate at all. I put the potting soil of those that didn't, right back into the bucket of it that I keep in the garage, and some time later, I used that potting soil to stuff my topiary turtle. Imagine my surprise when much later, I had morning glories growing out of my turtle! So even if it seems like they aren't going to germinate, some are just slow. Don't give up!
RON_CONVOLVULACEAE
Netcong, NJ
(Zone 5b)

January 24, 2007
8:11 PM

Post #3118371

It is encouraging to hear that there are sprouts...I'm very interested to see any closeups of the cotyledons of the new sprouts...and to compare the features to the strains commonly available today...I'm so curious to see if there are any interesting differences...maybe the color of the hypocotyl will portend the color of the flowers





kbaumle
Northwest, OH
(Zone 5b)

January 25, 2007
3:22 AM

Post #3119782

What mine looked like this morning...

Thumbnail by kbaumle
Click the image for an enlarged view.

kbaumle
Northwest, OH
(Zone 5b)

January 25, 2007
5:05 AM

Post #3120013

I included this little project in my blog entry for today: http://ourlittleacre.blogspot.com/2007/01/whats-story-morning-glory.html
QueenB
Shepherd, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 25, 2007
1:03 PM

Post #3120445

That article on the seeds in London is fascinating! There's no telling how old a seed can be before it's not viable. I recall hearing a story about a lotus seed being found in a pharoh's tomb and being germinated, but I don't know if that's true or not.
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

January 25, 2007
1:18 PM

Post #3120486

Here is a story from 2002 about some 200-500 year old lotus seeds. I`m not sure everything they wrote is true but it sounds like the seeds had problems. The thick seedcoats may be part of the reason they last longer.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-02/uoc--cls022102.php



This message was edited Jan 25, 2007 8:25 AM
QueenB
Shepherd, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 25, 2007
1:18 PM

Post #3120487

I think I found it, but it appears it was in China this happened...

"Lotus is one of the oldest plants in the world. In 1972, archaeologists in China found seedsof the Lotus with estimated ages of 5,000 years in lagoons in Yunnan Province. In 1973, inChekiang Province, other Lotus seeds with ages of 7,000 years were also found (Wu-Han,1987). A large number of Lotus seeds were found in Shan-Tung, Liaoning Provinces andin the Western suburbs of Peking during the period 1923-1951. The age of these seeds was estimated at more than 1,000 years old. Shen-Miller et al. (1995) reported that a1,288271 year-old (1,350220 year BP, radiocarbon age) seed of Lotus Nelumbonucifera Gaertn. from an ancient lake bed at Pulatien, Liaoning Province in China, hasbeen germinated and subsequently radiocarbon dated. This is the oldest demonstrably viable and directly dated seed ever reported on."

This other article mentions the Dutch botanist's seeds, as well as the story of the Pharoh's wheat.
http://www.alphagalileo.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=readrelease&releaseid=515398
"In the 1990s, sacred lotus seeds recovered from a dried lake bed in China astonished scientists by sprouting: one seed was 1300 years old. The resulting plants, however, had serious genetic abnormalities. The second case was the seed of a South American canna lily, found inside a 500-yearold Inca rattle." (bolding mine)

I believe it about those canna seeds!

I wonder if the morning glory seeds will be okay then, and won't have too many problems with them resulting from age?
kbaumle
Northwest, OH
(Zone 5b)

January 25, 2007
1:59 PM

Post #3120611

I'll just be thrilled to pieces if they germinate and I see anything green!
fchilders
Clatskanie, OR
(Zone 9b)

January 26, 2007
12:02 AM

Post #3122712

Good Job Kbaumle. Frank

Robynznest

Robynznest
Pittsburg, MO
(Zone 6b)

January 26, 2007
5:01 PM

Post #3124961

If anyone has an incubator for chicks, you might try putting your peat pots in there to keep them warm. This has worked for me before. I really just want to tell all of you that I'm rooting for you in the back here and thanks for all the fun on this forum. I've learned alot.

Robin
kbaumle
Northwest, OH
(Zone 5b)

January 26, 2007
5:02 PM

Post #3124967

Just checked the temperature of the surface of my heating pad. 76. Should be good, right?

This message was edited Jan 26, 2007 1:03 PM
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

January 26, 2007
5:09 PM

Post #3124989

76 sounds about perfect!
QueenB
Shepherd, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 26, 2007
7:26 PM

Post #3125483

I have an incubator, and never thought of that. Good idea!

luvsgrtdanes

luvsgrtdanes
(Ronnie), PA
(Zone 6b)

January 30, 2007
1:48 AM

Post #3136946

Sad to say 3 of mine bit the dust! I will try the other 2 come spring
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

January 30, 2007
2:07 AM

Post #3137004

I`m awaiting spring too. I have been trying to grow some other besides the 1949 morning glories inside and while the ones that didn`t die as a seedling are making it fine I sense they like it hotter and more sunny than is comfy for us. I`m thinking a plant room seperate from everyone else can help accomodate the need for higher temperature and light allowed to come in through the windows.

I might play around with the set up and lighting later. Right now I`m experimenting with some cheaper less rare guinea pigs. :)

I`m going to start mine after the warm weather and plant it in a special secure area to keep it extra safe and nurtured with the needs met.

This message was edited Jan 29, 2007 9:09 PM
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

February 5, 2007
5:22 PM

Post #3160116

Just a note on the possibility of genetic abnormalities...this is not always a bad thing, folks! Genetic abnormalities occur in nature on a regular basis. This is how we get our wonderful and diverse plant species. Most of the time a mutation is bad for the plant, and it will not thrive or be out-competed by normal species. Sometimes, however...the mutation is beneficial to the plant, providing a new protection or survival strategy. It can also provide a new and unique type of bloom!
Laurie1
Burwash Weald
United Kingdom
(Zone 9b)

February 5, 2007
5:49 PM

Post #3160201

Just found this thread this evening and it is absolutely rivetting! I am absolutely on the edge of my chair! Bravo!

Robynznest

Robynznest
Pittsburg, MO
(Zone 6b)

February 5, 2007
6:55 PM

Post #3160412

We are all waiting to hear, how are the babies doing? The suspense is killing us.
kbaumle
Northwest, OH
(Zone 5b)

February 5, 2007
7:05 PM

Post #3160441

No sign of anything here yet.
jasmerr
Merrimac, WI
(Zone 4b)

February 13, 2007
2:23 AM

Post #3183478

Any good new?
KayJones
Lee's Summit, MO
(Zone 6a)

February 13, 2007
2:28 PM

Post #3184508

Mine seem to be doing well. They are about 6" high and green and growing. I am debating whether to prune them or transplant and trellis in a one gallon container. Any thoughts from anyone with experience would be welcomed. If these were the ordinary mg seedlings, I wouldn't hesitate to prune them back, but unsure/uncomfortable doing so with these.
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

February 13, 2007
2:56 PM

Post #3184596

Id not do any cuting yet
gardener2005
Baton Rouge area, LA
(Zone 8b)

February 13, 2007
3:21 PM

Post #3184660

That is awesome! I have hope for my 3 seeds. I can hardly wait! You must share pictures!!!
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

February 13, 2007
3:21 PM

Post #3184661

I would not do any pruning at this point!
kbaumle
Northwest, OH
(Zone 5b)

February 13, 2007
4:50 PM

Post #3184928

I'm so jealous! Nothing here yet. :-(
KayJones
Lee's Summit, MO
(Zone 6a)

February 13, 2007
10:51 PM

Post #3186072

I got four of these wonderful seeds. Excuse the goofy picture of me - I couldn't look good in a picture if my life depended on it!

Here is a picture of the three that sprouted:

Thumbnail by KayJones
Click the image for an enlarged view.

ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

February 13, 2007
11:18 PM

Post #3186170

Hey, those are really looking good! Gently transplant them to larger containers. I would just grow them in containers so you will be sure to get seeds this summer!
Grow_Jo
Calgary, AB
(Zone 3a)

February 14, 2007
2:36 AM

Post #3186740

This has been the most fascinating thread to follow!

Lurk, lurk, lurk



Joanne
BlueGlancer
South/Central, FL
(Zone 9a)

February 14, 2007
2:56 AM

Post #3186788

KayJones... I recognize those kind of containers they are in. : )
I use those also. SONIC, hot fudge sundae with nuts, please. LOL They are great for starting seeds.
You are doing a good job, they look healthy.

~Lucy
RON_CONVOLVULACEAE
Netcong, NJ
(Zone 5b)

February 14, 2007
5:57 AM

Post #3187135

The plants vivible in the photo here
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/KayJones_1171410569_515.jpg
have features consistent with either Ipomoea nil or less possibly Ipomoea purpurea var.diversifolia...

The size of the cotyledons are very large...appreciably larger than what would be seen in an Ipomoea purpurea...and surprisingly large in relation to the size of the seeds...and no signs of any type of seed embryo dehydration damage...the seedlings actually look perfect...

A very different type of cotyledon than was first posted by phicks here
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/phicks_1168176720_592.jpg

The first leaves present are showing features of early trilobed leaves...as can be seen by the inward cutting and indentations present on the perimeter of the leaves...possibly of I.purpurea var.diversifolia,but the overall look is of an Ipomoea nil...

Looks like the seeds that all had a very consistent look have so far yielded some relatively unforseen surprises...

Certainly will be interesting to check out the continued novelties that come from some of those growing these out...

Very enlightening...(!)...and a wonderful insight into learning...

TTY,...

Ron

P.S. - Any closeups of the cotyledons and true leaves would be a most welcome addition to the display...

This message was edited Feb 14, 2007 2:03 AM
marie_
West Central, WI
(Zone 4a)

February 14, 2007
1:48 PM

Post #3187732

Still lurking...and facinated. I'm so glad that there are actual plants! I can hardly wait to see what the flowering is like.
ByndeweedBeth
scio, oregon, OR
(Zone 8a)

February 14, 2007
3:38 PM

Post #3188217

I was expecting diversity from this group of seeds, since the package claimed to be a mixture. The actual seeds looked rather uniform, though.
Beth

Robynznest

Robynznest
Pittsburg, MO
(Zone 6b)

February 14, 2007
5:56 PM

Post #3188749

Kay, you rock girl.
Marylyn_TX
Houston, TX
(Zone 9a)

February 14, 2007
6:58 PM

Post #3188954

New thread here: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/692983/

(I can't help with the experiment, since I am a seed-murderer, but I'm having fun lurking!) :-)

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