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Does anyone know about Ikea's cabinets? We want to redo our kit... and wife found the ones she dreams about from them and the price was ok... sooooare they worth getting or are they going to have to be replaced in a few years? Any ideas here? Thanks Mitch
They are the best choice in frameless considering the value. It will cost you twice as much to buy Scherr's RTA cabinets (also very good, and come in more choices than IKEA if you need something special). It would cost twice as much as Scherr's to buy already assembled, semi-custom cabs from one of the big mfgs.
Be aware that there are some caveats to using IKEA:
They don't have a kitchen designer in house. You design it yourself, and their software is a bit buggy but does work.
Nobody at the "other" Kitchen forum (where, BTW, there is an IKEA thread that runs into the thousands of postings about using IKEA) seems to have ever gotten a complete, perfect order from them. This, however, is pretty commonplace for ALL cabinet mfgs, not just IKEA! Don't expect perfection from the get-go and your blood pressure can stay low. The hassle with IKEA is that you have to box up the imperfect (or wrong) cab, drive back to IKEA, stand in line to return it, and reorder again, then drive back when it comes in, pick it up, wrestle it into the house...you get the idea. You are saving $$, but in return this will take you time and energy. It's your choice. Some people have used IKEA's recommended installers, and this is not a bad way to go if you aren't certain about your ability to hang cabinets correctly. The corner cabs, in particular, seem to be a bit tricky with IKEA.
There is a limited choice of cabinet styles, and measurements are limited to 3" widths (by comparison, Scherr's runs in 1/2" increments). They keep their styles in stock for many years, although a few have been dropped and some new ones introduced. But you can be pretty sure whatever you buy will probably be around for at least 5 yrs or so. Do be aware the one style I wouldn't personally recommend is the high-gloss thermofoil white. It yellows. This is not just with IKEA cabs, but other mfg cabs who offer this particular style. The cheaper white thermofoil turns yellowish over time; better quality thermofoils don't but they're way out of IKEA's price range. Also, thermofoils are a bit vulnerable at high-use points. However on the good side, with any mfg's cabs if the box itself is in good shape, you can always buy new doors and completely change the look of your kitchen! In fact, most mfgs themselves (although not IKEA) buy their doors wholesale from Scherr's.
Frameless cabs are the way to go, as far as I am concerned. I have owned both, and frameless is just as sturdy with much more room for storage. It is a big mistake to think that cheap plywood is a better box than high-quality particleboard. There are different levels of quality for all wood products, and IKEA uses good quality particleboard that will last decades. If you are worried about water leakage in any sink cabinet, the tip is to run a bead of caulking around the inside bottom of the cabinet.
IKEA's internal hardware -- hinges, drawer slides -- is top quality. I don't recall if it's Blum or a look-alike, but the HW gets raves from IKEA fans. This is an important point; with today's cabinets you need good HW to get the most bang for your buck. Full extension costs extra on many lower priced cabinet lines but is standard on IKEA.
Note that the old saw about screws pulling out of particleboard being impossible to fix is no longer true. I had this happen in one of my cabs (Kraftmaid frameless, 16 yrs old; one of the door hinges started to loosen out). My handyman took the door off, filled the hole with quick-set epoxy, redrilled the hole, and put the door back on. Solid as a rock!
Remember that IKEA cabs are actually produced in metric sizes, so they will be a little off from US-stated measurements. You will need to order end panels for cabinet sides that will be exposed. There is an IKEA fans website that you may find very useful in doing your research: [HYPERLINK@www.ikeafans.com]
Also, when measuring your available space between walls, a good tip is to measure from THREE separate points on each wall. I didn't do this, and it was a big mistake. Even with new construction, walls are not even, and you need really accurate measurements. Even if you are reusing your apliances, remember that your cabinets will last much longer than most appliances. You or the next owner may want to upgrade, and appliance sizes differ so radically that without a few filler strips, you'll lack the flexibility to add bigger, fancier, or more efficient appliance upgrades.
jkom51 . . .what an informative reply. Don't get into this forum very often, but saw the thread in the 'latest posts' and glad I did. If I were going to do IKEA, (or another for that matter) that's the kind of stuff I'd want to know. Sounds like the voice of experience in the trades.
I would just like to make existing and future Ikea customers aware of issues I had with our Ikea kitchen cupboards. The coating on the cupboards is crazing on most of the cupboards and above the lower cupboard door trim, areas that get the most use seem to craze the most. In other areas where there is more contact with water (just below the front of the sink) the coating peels, this I understand is more of a water issue, but its ability for it to stand up to an area where there is more water is low.
Now I will keep this short, I am not the original purchaser of the cupboards, but in my view I felt that Ikea should recognize that there is a problem with their product.
After many e-mails & conversations with store managers, the answer is simply, no receipt - no warranty. Now this holds true even if you were the original purchaser. They did not even offer any solution such as replacing the parts affected at their cost or even half of their cost, etc. Trying to get through to someone in the store was also a challenge in itself.
Just looked at your pics. I can see the issues you refer to. Hmmm...one of many reasons I would fear going with white---painted, laminated, etc. I like a stained finish myself. When looking for another home for myself since I cannot afford to redo any kitchen for awhile I steered clear of any with painted white cabinets...I know yours were a professional finish though. And to bad as you have beautiful countertops! Have you come up with any DIY solutions?
Well, based on many comments made at the "other" kitchen forum website, I don't think any of the cab mfgs will warranty their cabs at all more than 1 year after install. Kitchens get a lot of abuse, no question about it. As I said, I'm not fond of thermofoil cabs; I prefer veneer or in my case with our Kraftmaid, laminate. It's much more durable than thermofoil.
Many kitchen designers (KDs) and consumers confuse "full overlay" with the framed/frameless box. Full overlay just means the doors completely cover the outside of the box, which can be framed or frameless. Framed means there is a face frame edge on the outside (front facing you) of the cab. Frameless just has the four sides and back, no front frame. You have more room with frameless construction than framed.
Many vendors will try to convince you that frameless is "less sturdy" than framed. It's a bunch of you-know-what. Frameless has been used almost exclusively in European cabinetry for over 60 years. No matter what the boxes are built of, you need 3/4" construction. Anything thinner won't last.
I have framed bathroom cabinets of 1/2" plywood that are so flimsy, I wouldn't dare stand on them. HDepot/Masterbath sell them as "solid wood." "Solid wood" they may be; quality they are NOT. In comparison I have 1" thick high-density particleboard bookcases - what is basically the "frameless" construction without a front door - that have been lugged from place to place for 40 years, and hold approximately 75-130 lbs. of books PER SHELF, that have never bowed, sagged or broken.
Water affects all wood, no matter the product produced. Nowadays they use such cheap veneers - in fact, many of them are just plasticized coatings on the fiberboard, MDF or particleboard, they're not even true veneers - that I've seen a lot of "rippling" similar to Relaxer's cabs. I have some good-looking storage cubes with doors, purchased from Target, with a 'famous designer' name on them, that do the exact same thing anytime something wet is left on them for a while.
One reason why plywood boxes are considered to be mostly a waste of $$ by knowledgable people, is that many consumers equate them with better water resistance. It actually isn't true. The only plywood that can really resist large amounts of water without delaminating is marine plywood (I think it's sometimes called 4x4). Most flooring mfgs require it now for subfloors or you'll void their warranty. But it's more expensive than standard plywood, and nobody, not even custom cab makers, ever uses it for a cabinet structure.
If you want plywood boxes and can afford it, by all means get them. But note one thing: if you have plywood drawers, do NOT get dovetail joints. Dovetails are for slab wood, NOT plywood. They will actually weaken the plywood substantially. This is why mfgs, even when they use plywood for the boxes, don't use it for the drawer sides/face. Bottoms of drawers, yes, no problem - just not the side frame (which by the way, is again just a "frameless box!")
We have been building cabinets with plywood drawers, dovetailed. I would put them up against any other kind of drawer.
Our hardwood face frame cabinets will never look as poor as the ones pictured. Thats a shame when the fake wood swells or peels just because it gets damp!
A person building a new house had us install some doors for him. I noticed no kitchen cabinets at the time, asked if he had any ordered. He said he did not. So I gave him a price. He later told me his wife had her heart set on some Ikea cabinets. He also told me the nightmare of putting them together, etc. Our price included installation.
His Ikea cabinets were substantially more money than the quote I gave him.
You don't always get what you pay for.
Bernie
Bernie, I'm sure your shop does absolutely beautiful work. Many custom shops do, and can be a surprisingly affordable alternative to semi-custom big corporation cabs.
However, this depends on where you live and how well you do your shopping. In the San Francisco Bay Area, there's no custom shop that can match IKEA's prices and often even Scherr's. It's simply more expensive out here.
You certainly can do plywood with dovetails, but what's the point? There are other woodworkers who have expressed that this is pretty much a cosmetic look - and certainly lovely, no doubt about it - but frankly, I give my kitchen REALLY hard use, and Kraftmaid's frameless stapled drawers have been solid as a rock for almost twenty years. Plus, they don't swell or warp despite their particleboard cores because the melamine veneer on the inside (laminate on the exterior) is a lot better quality than what most mfgs use these days. This is why I tried to emphasize it is not what your cabs are made of, but the quality of those materials that counts.
We had a slow leak for 6 MONTHS inside our sink cab and there was no damage to the veneer OR the substrate. I sincerely doubt most plywood cabs could say the same.
I always think it's amusing to see people debate about which DW gets dishes drier (Energy Star regs have reduced the drying ability of many DWs) and the best brand of cupboard liners. I can and do put my dishes away soaking wet from the DW - haven't used the drying cycle ever - without any damage. Plus the interior cleans up like a dream!
I was really disappointed when Kraftmaid stopped making these cabs. The new ones are much poorer in quality. I don't personally care for the IKEA cabs, but they're actually quite close to what I do have, and I consider them an excellent value. For myself I'd probably order from Scherr's, partially because I can get great custom work and not be limited to IKEA's door styles, which aren't to my taste.
Also, if you want more info on the good and bad of using IKEA cabs, there's a website called IKEAfans.com where many folks who have used IKEA said this website was a lot more helpful than going to the IKEA store itself - especially since they are pretty much a DIY place and don't have any real kitchen designers.
On the "other" kitchen forum, there are many fans of IKEA and the discussions are pretty honest about the good/bad sides. A couple of years ago, because there's no good way to search through the Gallery photos for specific types of kitchens, a wonderful person started something called the Finished Kitchens Blog, where people could post photos of their kitchens (all types), along with detailed information on the materials and appliances - all of it being thoroughly searchable by color, manufacturer, style, etc. It's really a labor of love and it's astonishing that someone is willing to host such a goldmine of kitchen photographs and information. It's a great place to go to get ideas about all kinds of kitchen styles and appliances, not just IKEA.
Here's a link to a search someone did for IKEA kitchens posted to the blog. Clicking on the person's name brings up their kitchen photos. Most are pretty complete, although one or two folks don't seem to have quite understood how to properly do links to their remodeling photos, LOL!
[HYPERLINK@del.icio.us]
