That definitely reflects my own observations her ein centennial. USDA says we are zone 5, but depending on the sun exposure (S or W vs. N & E) the plants seem to think we are zone 6. Or possibly higher. I have a bunch of alyssum that was put in the ground 2nd week of may last year. The last snowfall is just melting over it and it appear to be still green. It was blooming its head off around thanksgiving. That is in the SW facing fullsun "hellstrip" by my front door. Last year the tulips there came up 2 weeks ahead of anything else. 20' away the tulips were up 1 week ahead, so I don't think it's just the sun exposure.
This year I am planning on doing more systematic measurements of soil temperature. This may satisfy my curiosity about what exactly is going on here...
vadap, The new zones don't mean much to me and many others when we're certain we are more than capable of experiencing temperature discrepancies 20 degrees lower than what the map indicates for a week or longer in the winter here. You don't see anything covering zone 3-4 in Washington State. What does this mean. There are micro-climates in each zone. Soil conditions in each zone can drop your property down one more zone. Other weather conditions combined with the cold weather can drop you another zone too. We can get 65 MPH winds when its -15 degrees f. Add in the fact that the cold temps might be during a spell where there's been no water fall for a few months and then you have a situation where Arborvidae are dying. We see it places in our neighborhood where folks have zone 3-4 plants that just can't tough it out during the winter. I try to make certain we plant zone 3-4 only. Anything higher is a crap shoot and generally like flushing money down the toilet.
I think I killed a nice Clematis armandii in a place in my garden that may be about 6a. The bananas there look decent as of two days ago. I've got a wee spot (Intentional) of 8a or so, I still have not found something to take full advantage of it.
JamesCo, I have been told a few times by garden experts locally that a "raised garden" with perfect soil can sustain zone 6 plants where I live. It would need a to be sheltered from the wind and covered in the winter by plexiglass plus well insulated with 4 inches of leaves and a black tarp or a couple inches of styrofoam board with a black plastic tarp showing under the plexiglass. I haven't felt the huge need yet to grow gladiolas and dahlias. Some day we'll do so but for now we're content to have the one hundred or so plants that have proven successful here without having to earnestly work. There's something good to be said about working with the hand that you've been dealt instead of kicking against the pricks.
Micro climates are everywhere we create them. I know that I easily fit zone 5b here where I have raised beds, thick mulch, composted soil, and wind protection. Though I don't trust it to remain. This is the joy of zone upping.
The plexiglass, raised bed, and all sounds like a greenhouse. That's too much for me, personally. It's more about siting. Well-drained soil promosted hardiness in a certain way, and rich soil grows stronger plants, too. I like to push the envelope, sure- but if it tears, I back off and try something else. A personal choice. Nature uses microclimates, too.
I simply put the Clematis in a windy place that also has too much temperatre fluxuation in winter for it. Ice formed under the bark and tore up the wood. There is a younger C. armandii in a microclimate to the south of the house looking by far better. Remember that it is a woody plant- it has half of itself exposed to the elements in the winter, up a fence, so I cannot cover it.
Yes Kenton, I think Clematis are tricky to grow and get to bloom nicely, but I keep trying. I also have several micro climates. And most years my particular area is mostly 6 but there are enough exceptions so that is not dependable. I have planted many things that are zone 6 and do quite well. This winter was really an exception in that we had 10 or so inches of insulating snow for the month of Jan. when it was cold and lots of wind. Still too early to know for sure what I may have lost. I have about 20 different Clematis, not all do as well as I would like.
Steve when are you getting your chickens now that you are back home.
Kelly, I forgot if you said what your elevation is there in Moxee. Shouldn't think you would be whole lot different than here.
donna, We're at close to 1,125 feet elevation. Yakima is 10 miles to the west. The Columbia River's Hanford Reach is 20 miles to the east. You can imagine the lack of flora on the hills here ... just cheat grass, tiny little cactus. The lower you get (we're at the bottom-low point here because the only stream in the valley cuts through our place) the more weeds and grasses one finds. We have cattails and willows all along the stream and lots of tall sages and even taller ornamental rye grasses as you climb the bank of the stream. There are hundreds of quail and always a nesting pair or more of mallards. The ridge above us is a 1k ft higher in the Rattlesnake Hills ... not to be confused with the Rattlesnake Ridge over by Snoqualmie Pass or Rattlesnake Creek just off the Naches River up Hwy 410 heading toward Mt. Rainier. Someone important needs to do some renaming locally. I haven't seen a rattlesnake in 40 years and it was up on the Tieton River 60 miles from here.
Photographer, We did pass near your location Sunday on our way to Bend. The Reno trip was good except for the weather!!!!! I drove in the dark, (left home at 4:00 am) through snow almost all the way to Wenatchee where we got on the bus. There were 36 people on a 45 passenger bus so had plenty of room. Drove through snow most of the way to Reno, had to stop about 10 miles out of Reno so the bus driver and a couple of nice people on the bus could put the cable chaines on. We were supposed to go to Tahoe on Tues. but the Patrol people closed the highway, too much ice. I was happy, didn't want to travel on that steep road, but we did have a very good driver. Wed. morning we went to Boomtown which is about 8 or so miles east of Reno, not much traffic as Donner Pass was closed. Miles of trucks we saw on TV waiting for the hwy. to open. We got close to the Blue Mtns, Friday, most of the time driving thru snow, had to stop again to put chains on.
When we arrived at the Wild Horse Casino, about the first thing we saw at the entrance was a sign saying 'No Truck Parking, Lot Full'. Never saw so many trucks, Hundreds of them. But just as we got there the Chains required was lifted and the trucks were leaving. Bet the casino made a lot of money as the trucks were there more than one night, so I'm sure the drivers were in the casino.
Anyway, I came home with more money than I left with, so fun for me. Enough money I hope to pay for getting my pickup fixed. Since it is the weekend the repair shop is closed so I don't know if the pickup got repaired yet or not.
DonnaS, You must have passed right by the exit to Moxee on I-82 combo Hwy 97 as you drove by Yakima. I assume you continued on to Toppenish then turned of I-82 and headed for Goldendale and onto Bend. I've driven that way 50 times or more over the years. Nice to learn you were able to win a little bit. Most of your companions on the trip must have been envious. Something like 93% lose? Having lived in Carson City I gained an appreciation for the area but there are some huge negatives about Nevada in comparison to where you live today. Welcome back home.
Wish I had won enough for a new pickup, but felt happy to come home with more money than I went with, mostly from playing Blackjack. Don't care much for slots, but love cards.
Yes we did go by Toppenish, but stopped at Legends casino across the way then on to Bend. We used to go to Carson City, but the casino there decided they didn't really want bus patronage, don't know why. Liked to eat lunch at the casino there. Actually there were quite a few winners among the 37 bus passengers.
I just want to say that I'm chuckling at all the mentions of 'Yakima' and 'Toppenish'. We have a board game we just love called "The Farming Game". Ever heard of it? It's sort of like Monopoly except that its more of a you vs. nature kind of thing and you've got to pick the right crops to grow in order to make big money on the harvest. The various farms you can buy have names like "Toppenish Tom" and "Wapato Willie". Obviously the game is 'set' in the Yakima Valley.
So, now whenever I hear those place names, I chuckle like it's some sort of inside joke. If you haven't played "The Farming Game" it's a must have- if you can find it. I've got lots of happy memories playing it with my extended family.
Anyway, sorry for the sidetrack. I'm glad your trip was a lot of fun. I've often wondered if the near-constant closing of the Donner pass doesn't have a lot more to do with economics than safety. Perhaps it's living in the mountains where roads are rarely closed that I'm cynical of that whole process.
Then they have "George Washington", "Carol Quincy", " Pasco Pete", "Efron Euphrata", and most delightfull "Othello Shakespear". The villians must be "Hank Hanford", "Mattawa Mike", "Sam Salmon", and "Villanous Zilla". LOL
I always saw eastern Washington as an escape from the pressures of Seattle. Tonasket was my favorite. But each exploration of the drylands and isolated areas gave me great pleasure of oneness with my Creator. I have always loved sagelands of the eastern Washington.
Soferdig, Eastern Washington is different and a couple hours distant. The things that Seattle has the most of ... I would not want near me. Tonasket is a terrific area for sure. The downside to these small isolated areas can be as little as the cost or time to fetch groceries or the time it takes to reach a decent hospital with all the necessities. There are pluses and minuses to everywhere. Most people choose the place they reside based on 1 factor (employment). People generally move due to 1 factor (employment or lack thereof). Most folks adapt and eventually grow to appreciate the place they live to the extent that it becomes home to them (human nature).
Photographer, i think your are exactly right. I have lived here all my long life and really wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I have been in all but 3 of the 50 states, most of Canada, Some of Europe, quite a bit of S. America, and I still prefer N. Central WA. However I do wish we would get some rain. I am having to irrigate already. Planted peas, radishes, lettuce and spinach yesterday and now have to water the seeds in. Forty degrees this morning and cloudy, but I don't think there is any rain in the clouds.
I always appreciated the value of Seattle until the population prevented me from doing so. That is why I moved to Kalispell. I guess I couldn't adapt after 22 years of Seattle growth. After all I came from a town of 1800 in Michigan to Seattle (there was a sign: "Will the last one in Seattle turn the lights off") This was a perfect time in the great city. I now have the opportunity to chose my location and travel to my place of employment. You never know when the check is coming but you always know your neighbor.
Soferdig, The worst crisis facing the world is population. I have my limits and enjoy my surroundings (or lack thereof). I dislike having to go shopping because of all the people confined in the store while I'm there. That tells all. I was born in Seattle 10 yrs before the Space Needle was built. We lived on Queen Anne Hill overlooking Elliot Bay. We could ride our bikes to the Farmers Market. My dad and I would go shopping at the original Eddie Bauer store for fishing gear. Eddie himself would show us the bamboo fly rods. Things have changed but did they have to change so drastically ?
Yes they have. I cannot respond anyway but to change my choice of living areas. Everywhere is a growth area and I suppose that is what the destination of man on the planet is. I do fear for my grandchildren. I went to the old Eddie Bauer store also and found it a magic place. Not anymore.
Soferdig, I'm getting the hell outa dodge before long. I figure 2-3 years and I'll be set up to leave permanently when my soon to be ninth grader graduates from HS ... we'll be retired and residing part time in Japan with my wife's parent's in the Central Alps region near Matsumoto. The native Azalea plants there in Nagano are incredible. The rest of the time we'll be visiting/vacationing my with our sons and daughter somewhere here, there ... but nothing will be permanent. Kalispell is nice. My dad's first cousin died last year. He was about 70. His widow lives near Yellow Bay... on Flathead ... just a few hundred feet from the Yellow Bay grocery store. We never even got notified when he passed. Kelly
I would like to have family in Japan. Good place to visit. Do you go over often? I love the Japanese. When I worked in Seattle area I was in Bellevue area almost 22 yrs. Many of my best clients were Japanese and they loved their pets so much. Steve
My wife and 5 yr old son have been there now for a week. I've only been 5 times in 20 years. The mountainous areas like Nagano are scenic ... 98 Winter Olympics. Tokyo is 10 time more of a hell hole than Seattle has become. The Japanese are good people. The WWII problems was a few leading the loyal masses who had/have been brainwashed to believing in a certain ... not to accepting way. Some still believe the Emperor is descended from God. Since he's Japanese ... you get the idea ... they're closer to perfection than any other ethnic group. That belief has dissipated in the past 40 years but they (in general) still have a self pride that is Himalayan in comparison to most groups self image. They like many Asian ethnics are able to do whatever to get their kids to reach beyond the ordinary or average. My wife goes there every year with 1-2-3 of the kids. We could buy a home almost with the airfare spent. Her folks have come to visit once in 20 years ... pretty much worthless grandparents in my opinion. Everyone has their faults ... that is their BIG fault and even bigger loss. My mom has 22 gr kids ... mine are the cream of the crop. Tragic that they've had to grow up without the ability to spend much time with their grandparents.
Ginger, I fully intend to visit. I'll be on this board for a few more years. I enjoy the flowers. I have this project to get through ... gotta get 50% done and the website technician can run with it. Scanning & watermarking 12mil images is tedious and time consuming. I am positioned well cash wise so it is now just a matter of effort over several months time. In 2 weeks I'll be adding 5 PC's for watermarking at night while I sleep. I'll be able to load 20k images onto each machine (using a 500gb eSATA HDD. I can daisy chain the software through 20 converted rolls and start the watermarking. All I have to do is sleep. My wife can burn the 10 or so DVD discs in 20 minutes in the morning with each machine burning a couple discs. At this point I have it down to a science. Collecting/obtaining the 15k rolls of microfilm for the firm and clients was a Himalayan achievement. But we took our time ... 16 yrs and paid a third of the price they sell for new today ($64 each).
We got snow yesterday morning on the hills 4 miles to the north across the valley. Spring is here ... my lawn is turning green. Kelly
All families have losses from lack of something or too much something else. I'm sorry to hear that they have not chosen to be as much a part as you wanted. I am dealing with my parents both having serious problems at the same time. So I am going to stop working for a while and spend time with them. Family is so important. Steve.
Iiii'mmm Bbbaaaacckkk! 80* in Dallas yesterday morning, soaking wet in sweat by 8 am(moving boxes and furniture), only to fly home to Denver and 36* and a few inches of snow on the ground. At least I didn't miss the blooming of my first daffodils! My MIL has a hard time grasping that when family needs help, you drop everything(which wasn't much at the time in my case) and go help, w/out accepting any compensation. She still insisted on paying me a good chunk. I tried not to accept it, but the stubborness of two of Scott's ancestory is formidable to overcome. LOL I think the problem of people moving from an overcrowded, undesirable place to a nicer, slower, queiter area is they forget to leave all their hangups from where they came. ie, they forget that THEY need to assimilate to maintain the quality of life. I've seen it here in Colorado, also. First moved here in '90, when only 2.5 million people lived in the state, now 4 million live on the front range(east side of mountains). It's nuts! Any of you guys now anything about Bridgeport, WA?
Soferdig, I've pretty much accepted the situation with the in-laws not visiting us. We've had more ability to visit them than they us so we've done the traveling. My mom is 35 yrs older than I and close to passing herself. My dad passed away when I was young. I appreciate more than some the value of grandparents since my kids have pretty much done without. I waited so much longer than normal to begin a family ... not advisable. My f-in-l was 50 when my first son was born. I was 50 when my last ... 3rd son was born. My wife is 16 yrs younger... still not yet 40. When we drive through Kalispel this summer we're gonna stop to see my dad's uncle Mike. He was born 18 months after my dad but still he's my dad's uncle. They were raised together because my grandmother was away and a single woman so my dad's grandparents raised him till he was ready to go to school. What a dysfunctional home. My younger brother and my youngest son are both named after him. Mike was the Chairman of Science Dept at Flathead CC for 20 years. My immediate family and siblings view Flathead as our "ancestral home". My wife and I honeymooned at Lake MacDonald Lodge. Just 4 more days and we'll be back in Seattle to retrieve my better half and little boy at the Sea-Tac Airport. Time flies now-a-days ... even if we'd rather it not.
Does anyone out there have a great suggestion to induce daffodil & tulip & hyacinth bulbs to grow better flowers? Ours are stunted. It has to be due to lousy soil I suppose. That has been my main pox here when trying to get anything to take ... lousy hard, sandy soil with no nitrogen.
I have always wanted to cut 'cane' after the movie. Then I would have cane to bury. (and muscles to do it).
Vadap welcome back! Well done son-in-law, and even better to get paid. We scots are proud when we get some more cash for our oatmeal. Is Brigeport over by Raymond? I thought I knew all of the towns in Wash but not that one. It must be small.
Photo to bad you have to travel to the 'coast' to get you wife. Hope her flight comes in late or early. Seatac is crowed from 6am to 9am, and then 2pm until 8pm. Good luck. The best thing about having disfunctional families is that we have the opportunity to stop the disfunction in our own families in one generation. I have I think brought my daughter up in a loving (yes and somewhat confused) family life. She knows the value of family and we have a close relationship of being able to show love and give unconditionally. I am so glad that my GC are going to have many family members in their lives for mentoring, support, acceptance when the world is not, and unconditional love to make their lives a more enriched experience. I hope you DW is not too sad leaving her mom behind. Steve.
Hey sofer. Thing is, I wasn't expecting to get paid but maybe $1-200, plus travel. She said $1000, but gave me a card before getting on the plane with $1300. That was hard to take, for me, as she is now family, and you don't charge family like that for helping out. Even friends, feed me and I'll help move you. Do a good deed, what comes around goes around- that kind of philosophy. Cross me though, and it's war! LOL Bridgeport is a very small town, downriver from the Coulee dam, and just NE of Chelan. Big dam and resevoir there.
verdap / Soferdig, I've seen the signs pointing to Bridgeport I think leading out onto Hwy 2 from Hwy 97. Bridgeport is way out in the middle of nowhere in this state. I have traveled up to Canada on Hwy 97 many times from Yakima to Osoyoos, BC (we had a summer home there). Travelers are also signed for Grand Coulee Dam in the same direction. The poor river has so many dams on it that its hardly a river any longer.
Soferdig, I spoke with her this morning (11pm her time). She is melancholy about her dad's health which has been failing some ... just 67 and he's not too good. Her mother is frantic about the health situation of her husband. My wife ... all she can say is that its a good thing she was able to go when she did. Her grandmother is 104 and doing better than her dad. She says ... grandma eats like a horse and dad eats like a mouse. One problem after another it seems with family health over there. Yeah ... I have to pick them up at 9am at the airport tuesday ... which means leaving here at 6:30am. That's gonna be a joyride. I've done the drive so many times ... I have it "down pat" ... 2.5 hrs from my house to the airport pedal to the metal.
And yes Bridgeport is now a small town. When they were building Ch. Joesph Dam it was a larger city. Have been through there many times. I used to go by Bridgeport, near, when on my way to Spokane in the winter to avoid going over Nespelem Pass. Now there is a Columbia River hwy. through the reservation that is the easiest way .
Good Morning Donna, Hope you'll have a nice day up in Nighthawk. I'm going to be working all day. The kids bicycles need a spring cleaning, gardens to tend and sprinkle, the poultry to feed, lawn to water and discs to burn. I suspect my 18 yr old son will be helping me today with the lawn mowing. Not much to do yet in that regard but its a good idea to get the brown stuff off the top. Kelly
Sofer/Rutholive, what kind of country is it? I mean, is it wooded for being close the Columbia, or dry and sparse like most of eastern Washington? Do they have the orchards in the area? I've been through Spokane, and that is just a little to dry for my liking. I really do love being around trees. I appreciate the beauty of the prarie, but in smaller doses, if that makes sense.
Vadap dry sage brush and trees where irrigated. Not too many. The north side of hillsides has a few trees. I don't recall any orchards 20 yrs ago. Maybe but I don't remember. Donna will know. Everything is Sage there and a few Ponderosa pine. Like Donna's area only green is irrigated but right on the rivers.
Yeah, kinda what I thought. I wasn't sure where the orchards began an ended up there. I've only been on the freeway going to Seattle, and that was spring '97, fortunately when everything was in bloom. A beautiful sight, indeed. Very familiar with irrigation around here, compost and mulch to. I'll have to make some time and poke around some.
If you want to get an idea of the topography around Brigeport or Grand Coulee Dam ... just Google using image browser "aerial photo" Grand Coulee Dam. It is barren difficult landscape. It would be pretty much limited to sage brush, cheat grass and short cactus were it not for the irrigation canals. It is as barren as can be almost. The area surrounding Pateros has quite a lot of apple orchards. The landscape become prettier when/if you turn up the Methow River Valley. Same goes for the Okanogan River Valley. Donna is up in that general area. Its about as nice as it get in this state. Kelly
Thanks photog, I keep forgetting about that imagery stuff, brainwashed to think only the gov't gets to play with it(military training-secrets, etc LOL). I'll check those out. Guess with enough water, manure, leaves(you could import them from Seattle) and mulch, guess you could turn it into a garden of eden. ; )
I remember my 21st year, sorta. To long ago, and much of it was intoxicated. Actually, I was on Diego Garcia, British Indian Ocean Territory, in the middle of the Indian Ocean(literally). Only 10% female population amongst 4000 people.
vadap & ginger, You are very funny. Hope you get your problem solved soon ginger!!!!
Well i thought spring was here, had a couple of days of 65 degrees plus, but this morning after being brave/foolish and planting some somewhat ender plants out in the open the orchard fans are running and the temp has been 29-30degrees for a couple of hours. Hope my ivy, and not completely hardened off succulents, and Ranuculus. are not completely frozen. I just checked and they are pretty crispy. Which I suppose means my open apricot blooms are also in trouble.
I keep pushing the temps, and sometimes works sometimes doesn't.
Drove to Wenatchee Friday, wanted to get three sacks of worm castings at IFM, Integrated Fertility Management, but they didn't have any and may not as too expensive to drive to the coast and home. i did get 3 sacks of 9-3-4 organic fert. It is made right here by Pacific Calcium, but i can buy it for less money in Wenatchee!!!! Also got a sack of sulfur half/pea shaped pellets. The apricots were in full bloom and so pretty. This is the only time of the year that I like Cheat grass, makes the hills so pretty and green for a short while.
Had a good time yesterday, Went to Riverside (used to be a riverbarge/boat docking area and also much larger. Anyway a woman there stocks lovely large pottery. I bought a set of 6, ranging size from about 36" x 20" to 9" x 16" glazed in a purple turqouise mix. also one smaller brownish glaze with raised dragonfly design. Then because I had bought the large set, she was having a sale of certain ones for $30.00. I got a set of four ranging in size from20" x 20" and smaller in a turq. brown mix glaze.
Now I have to decide where best to put them. i had bought a weeping greenJap. Maple, Acer palmatum diss. Viridis, about 36" with a very nice shape, in Wenatchee planning to grow it for a few years in a pot, now I have the pot.
OK Donna who are you going to hire to move those JM in 5 years. LOL I bet God is glad to help you when ever you need the pots moved. You need to push the temps when you live in our kind of area. Otherwise you will never have some long growers do their thing. You are brave Donna.