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Sustainable Alternatives: First post! Home made organic fertilizer

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renwings
Sultan, WA
(Zone 8a)

February 23, 2007
6:42 PM

Post #3217976

I read both of Steve Solomon's book this past winter (awesome!). And he includes a recipe for homemade organic fertilizer that I am excited to try. 'Cause heaven knows, buying organic fertilizer is costly.

Do you make your own? Recipes?

renatelynne
Boerne new zone 30, TX
(Zone 8b)

February 23, 2007
6:44 PM

Post #3217983

I never have... I use what I can find... mostly corn gluten and hasta grow
wallaby1
Lincoln
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

February 23, 2007
7:03 PM

Post #3218039

I use what I have available, and that is compost made from all the Horse Chestnut leaves and grass cuttings. I mulch the flower beds with it and they all love the natural food, moisture retaining and weed suppressing qualities.

I think that if the plants roots have a good growing medium then they will make stronger roots which can then better feed the plant. Compost also encourages micro-organisms and plants benefit from the fungi and microbial elements which work together to combat disease, making the plant grow more healthily.

This then eliminates the need for the fertilisers and disease combatting chemicals which can be likened to a human taking lots of medicines, each one causing yet another problem which then requires another dose of what is not good for the system...and so on the sorry tale goes...

Poison the earth, poison the bugs, poison the birds...much better to feed the earth, feed the bugs feed the birds!

I found a pdf which tells the story,

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/mbr/airc/1998/018linderman.pdf

frostweed

frostweed
Josephine, Arlington, TX
(Zone 8a)

February 23, 2007
7:15 PM

Post #3218064

Very interesting article Wallaby1.
Yes I do make my own compost, have been making it for 35 years, also brew my own compost tea very economically, working with Nature is a wonderful endeavor.
Josephine.
Wvdaisy
Buffalo, WV
(Zone 7a)

February 23, 2007
7:37 PM

Post #3218121

renwings, would love to see the recipe for homemade organic fertilizer. Could you post it?

Lana
renwings
Sultan, WA
(Zone 8a)

February 23, 2007
8:59 PM

Post #3218342

Solomon's book was fascinating.
When I say "fertilizer", I'm not referring to compost. I have realized now, that compost is a really great way to condition, replenish soil I do agree! But it doesn't provide your FOOD crops with an adequate balance of nutrients, that in turn provide you with an adequate balance of nutrition.

Chemical fertilizers are detrimental to plants because the N-P-K is highly refined and absorbed into the plant at a rate it can't possibly do anything good with. Causing a burst of growth, then it holds and stores these chemicals (they are usually soluble salts) resulting in less healthy and less productive plants.

Complete Organic Fertilizer - a la Steve Solomon
4 parts of any type of seed meal, excluding copra meal
OR
3 parts of any seed meal plus 1 part blood and bone, meat meal or my preference, blood meal you can try feather meal too
BLEND WITH
1/4 part agricultural lime (unless you have alkaline soil, my soil is quite acidic, proper pH is important to nutrient absorption)
AND
1/4 gypsum (or double the agricultural lime)
1/2 part dolomite lime
PLUS
1 part phosphorus source - finely ground hard or soft rock phosphate, bone meal, guano
AND
1/2 to 1 part kelp meal or 1 part basalt dust

This is only cost effective if you eat almost exclusively out of your garden during the growing season. If you buy large sacks of these ingredients from farm supply stores, you get a better deal. I can get 50 lbs. of seed meal for $20 or 20 lbs. of blood meal for the same price.

balvenie
Marysville, WA
(Zone 7a)

February 23, 2007
10:10 PM

Post #3218486

Good recipes, and information in "The Complete Natural Gardener", Donald W. Trotter, PhD. Hay House, Inc. ISBN 1-56170-716-3

"General-purpose long-lasting vegetable food:
1 Part feather meal
2 parts fish meal
1 part alfalfa meal
1 part cottonseed meal
2 parts bone meal
1 part Sul-Po-Mag
2 parts fossilized kelp (Kelzyme)
This mix is a good one to use for any general vegetable gardening project and feeds your plants for the entire growing season with no trouble. I also use this mix to feed landscape plants and other general garden plants and trees. This is one of those plant foods that I mix up in big batches, so I have some around and handy all year long. I apply this food at varying rates, ranging from 10 to 20 cups per 100 square feet of garden space." P. 90-91
summerkid
Rose Lodge, OR
(Zone 8b)

February 25, 2007
7:36 AM

Post #3222537

You mean compost isn't enough? That's pretty much all I've gardened with. One of the bigger organic growers down the road doesn't even irrigate. He says rainwater brings down all the nutrients plants need.
wallaby1
Lincoln
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

February 25, 2007
1:21 PM

Post #3222930

I think it depends to a good extent what your soil is like, some have very fertile soils that will grow anything whatever and forever.

I have been using some granular fertilisers for the few vegetables I grow, but last year I didn't want to buy any more so started down the route of trying without. Of course there will be some nutrients left in the soil, but mine is sany and acid so it leaches quickly. The spot I grow carrots etc on is fairly good soil, and I know rotation should be practised, but the area I use for potatoes is in a lot more shade, I get some shade everywhere. I spread a mixture of leafy compost and fire ash from a bonfire on top of the ground before sowing, I think it had a good effect so I will continue to try to get enough bonfire ash, burn some woody rubbish instead of putting it in the recycle bin, last year I put all the grass sods dug from new beds on bonfires. Not everyone can have bonfires though, if in the country that is easier.

For the potato patch I dug out old grass and old tree roots starting in 1998, it has been topped with some soil/rotted leaves dug from the drains, and I always put compost in the bottom of the trench when putting in potatoes. I also throw fire ashes on it and rake over the top, some wood ash but mostly coal ash, I don't know if it is any different but it is an advanced stage of wood after all. The Amazonians improved useless sandy soils with charcoal, which provides nutrients and holds moisture. In one year where I had a lot of lumps from ash in the soil, and it was a very dry summer, I did notice the potatoes growing in that spot did well and the soil held water. I also now don't dig the soil in spring before planting potatoes, it gets dug when they are dug up, I think this helps hold water.

The texture of the soil has gone from black, sour, lumpy and poor to having a good texture and improved fertility although I have used general purpose fertiliser 7-7-7. Potatoes do need higher potash for tuber growth, now I am hoping to do without added fertiliser, I don't think it is good for anyone but somtimes for a start can help. I have noticed when digging to put in the next year's seed potatoes there is often some granular fertiliser still there undissolved, we have had little rain in the last two years but I would have thought in winter it would have disintegrated when a little wetter.

Diseases are suppsed to be held at bay by rotation, in the years I have been growing potatoes in the one bed I have had none other than late blight which is brought in by rains, it came from year one and I always get it at some time. I don't try to spray for it, instead I grow varieties which mature earlier before the tops die back. Even the so called blight resistant varieties now are not so resistant, could this be the result of over-use of chemicals and the strengthening of viruses as is the case with many viruses. If others are continuing to use chemicals while some try to manage without it can be a losing battle, if all follow an organic route the battle may be swung.

summerkid rainwater does bring down nitrogen, which the plants turn into proteins. Have you noticed how you can water until the cows come home, but plants never really grow well until it rains?

I searched and found some good links

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/N/NitrogenCycle.html

http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/web?query='nitrogen rain proteins plants'&isinit=true&restrict=wholeweb
spot8907
Ida, MI

February 25, 2007
3:27 PM

Post #3223263

Wood ashes are wonderfull for plants but do raise the soil ph 2/3 as much as lime. So if soil is acid to begin with you have a winner on all counts. Wood ashes have an average nutritional rating of 0-2-7 , 10-30% calcium, 3-6% Magnesium, .02% Iron and a rich scource of trace minerals. Be careful around growing plants as it can burn. I started heating with a woodburning stove last winter and applied my wood ashes to my beds in the spring on my slightly acidic soil and noticed a BIG difference, especially in bulbs. It would be well worth considering the idea of wood heat if it is economical in your area or searching out folks who have fireplaces and asking for their ashes. Folks who don't garden just throw them away. I now consider the value of the wood ashes as a major benefit of my woodburning stove, one I hadbn't really considered when I bought it. I have also heard the ashes deter some insects, anyone know anything about this? This year I think I am going to mix them with other ingredients as you described and create a more balanced natural fertilizer, thanks for the recipees, I'm going to check whats available at my feedstore.
spot8907
Ida, MI

February 25, 2007
4:04 PM

Post #3223365

Balvenie, thanks for the tip on Trotto7ers book just ordered it from Amazon. Renwings, I have Solomons book "Gardening when it counts", good book. Have you read his composting book? Here is review.

Great explanation of composting., October 4, 1997
Reviewer: A reader
Steve Solomon's "Growing Vegetables West of the Cascades" is a truly wonderful book and a must for anyone gardening west of the Cascades. "Composting" is a very good book, but is variable. It feels as if Solomon is getting a little crotchety as he ages, and the book would have profited from an editor with a strong pen since the writing style occasionally gets annoying.
Solomon's explanation of Carbon Nitrogen ratios is excellent. I now understand better why my compost does what it does at different speeds different times of the year. He is realistic about the benefits of compost and does not uncritically accept the Rodale "Organic" party line. However, I think he goes too far in rejecting it. Solomon has clearly seen many people overcompost and damage their soil's ecology. Yes, too much of anything can be bad and one can increase humus content irrationally, but I think he is too negative. Most of the gardens I see have been neglected and one really can "build the soil" to improve fertility, moisture retention, etc. I would prefer the message to be "It takes time. Don't try build your soil too fast. Do soil tests regularly." not "only try replace the humus you take out". He ends one section with "I conclude that organic matter is somewhat dangerous stuff whose use should be limited...". On this I disagree strongly. In my experience it is a rare case when someone overcomposts. However, I must strongly agree with Solomon on the advantages of using soil testing and using a good organic fertilizer mixture in addition to applying compost on your garden. He gives his famous recipe for complete organic fertilizer (I originally saw it in "Growing Vegetables West of the Cascades") and I can vouch for its efficacy.

Solomon raves about poor nutrient value of vegetables caused by over composting. I only partially buy his nutrition arguments. Yes, poor soil can grow veggies with poor nutrition. But the argument does not follow not to build your soil. If veggies grow well and taste great, I trust that measure of nutrition. On the nutrition arguments he is doing what he accuses other of, making an assertion and providing no evidence to back it up.

If you are interesting on composting the book is well worth reading. In fact, it is probably more fun because of the flaws I have just complained about


Does he really complain about overcomposting? I cant imagine anyone with any size garden could really overcompost. I would definately say there is more danger of undercomposting than overcomposting. Read "Farmers Of Rorty Centuries" and see how the Chinese supported millions millions of people on little acreage using composted everything, imcluding human manure. Can't understand where he could be coming from on this issue. Guess I'm gonna have to buy the book! LOL
balvenie
Marysville, WA
(Zone 7a)

February 25, 2007
4:19 PM

Post #3223416

Spot, I haven't read Solomon's West of the Cascades book, but think I might have to get it. Thanks for the reference.
wallaby1
Lincoln
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

February 25, 2007
6:37 PM

Post #3223952

Wood is available by some locally who cut and sell it but it's not cheap, neither is coal but wood burns fairly quickly. I think they are trying to sell to people who have moved into the area and have money! We get what we can if it's going for free but that is used at the end of the cold weather when a small fire on chilly nights is needed.

I would think ash isn't a good environment for insects, they seem to live in loose leafy matter. I wonder if it deters carrot root fly, I didn't have much damage last year, although one variety I grew was a resistant one I did grow another variety and had very little root fly damage. I did spread ash on the carrot bed.

On the subject of too much compost, if you read how bacteria works in relation to plant roots, how the plant is helped to take up nutrients, and the environment bacteria lives in, yes I would say you can compost too much. Too much vegetable matter makes too much Ammonia, and it has to be a balanced relationship.

The wikipedia has some good explanations,

"The basics
Earth's atmosphere is about 78% nitrogen, making it the largest pool of nitrogen. Nitrogen is essential for many biological processes; it is in all amino acids, is incorporated into proteins, and is present in the bases that make up nucleic acids, such as DNA and RNA. In plants, much of the nitrogen is used in chlorophyll molecules which are essential for photosynthesis and further growth (Smil, 2000).

Processing, or fixation, is necessary to convert gaseous nitrogen into forms usable by living organisms. Some fixation occurs in lightning strikes, but most fixation is done by free-living or symbiotic bacteria. These bacteria have the nitrogenase enzyme that combines gaseous nitrogen with hydrogen to produce ammonia, which is then further converted by the bacteria to make its own organic compounds. Some nitrogen fixing bacteria, such as Rhizobium, live in the root nodules of legumes (such as peas or beans). Here they form a mutualistic relationship with the plant, producing ammonia in exchange for carbohydrates. Nutrient-poor soils can be planted with legumes to enrich them with nitrogen. A few other plants can form such symbioses.

Other plants get nitrogen from the soil by absorption at their roots in the form of either nitrate ions or ammonium ions. All nitrogen obtained by animals can be traced back to the eating of plants at some stage of the food chain."

The next sections on Ammonia and other things should be read too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_cycle




spot8907
Ida, MI

February 25, 2007
7:31 PM

Post #3224152

Bingo on the wood ashes deterinhg the carrot rootfly Wallaby! I thought I had read something about this before so I googled carrot rootfly wood ashes. Here is what I found.

Compost and wood ashes will also scare off not only carrot flies but carrot weevils, wireworms, and other carrot pests. Probably the best organic way to get rid of pests is to soak the bed once a week with a thin mixture of wood ashes and water using a watering can.

http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/cultivation2.html

I understand about the whole nutrition, soil, compost thing. My point is though that most people would have a hard time producing enough compost to get the point where there is too much. It is far more likely that the average garden is lacking in humus, not oversupplied. Though I suppose that it would be possible for an overzealous gardener with acces to a large supply of compostables and too much time on their hands and not enough garden to go overboard. On the subject of the nitrogen, good compost involves nitrogen AND carbon sources in correct proportion for proper function. It is interesting to note also that bacteria are not the only microbe out there in our gardens feeding the plants. Fungi play a major part in breaking dowm carbon materials. So I can see someone making poor unbalanced compost, not good for plants, but an overabundance of GOOD compost in the soil would seem pretty hard to acheive. The best book I have found on what really goes on in the soil is "Teaming With Microbes". Fantastic book that gives a lot of good solid scientific knowledge in a language the average person can understand. But I have got to get Solomons compost book to see exactly what he is talking about.
wallaby1
Lincoln
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

February 25, 2007
8:44 PM

Post #3224421

Isn't it great when we get to exchange and find out things by accident! I haven't heard of carrot weevils.

I think that's true too, we are mostly struggling to get together enough compost to supply our demands. The type of soil, and type of compost should really be considered, I suppose a poor compost may put demands on other elements, where vital resources are robbed to satisfy the demands of the compost. I can only give an example of plants which prefer an acidic compost as oppsoed to a neutral one, Rhododendrons like to be acidic and are best with pine needles or oak leaves for compost. Composted leaves from deciduous trees will reduce acidity so should not be applied too often, I have used them around mine once but I also have acid soil, and Leylandii hedge clippings I shove under the hedge behind them. There is usually leaves on the ground over winter also, some oak leaves which are blown from a nearby tree, and worms compost many of those. The Rhodos were fairly poor until I composted them and left the ground undisturbed, this will also be where the effects of mycrorrhizal fungi which grows well in leaf compost have their uses.
pamsue
Gresham, OR
(Zone 8a)

February 27, 2007
4:59 PM

Post #3230439

i wonder about the cottonseed meal because pesticides used in cotton production?

pam

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

February 27, 2007
5:19 PM

Post #3230486

Me, too. Cotton and tobacco use enough pesticides in growing to choke us all!

frostweed

frostweed
Josephine, Arlington, TX
(Zone 8a)

February 27, 2007
6:25 PM

Post #3230697

I use our own compost made from the plants in our yard, leaves and our kitchen refuse.
Sometimes I supplement with aerated compost tea, or alfalfa meal if it seems necessary.
My garden is lush and green with the nutrients it gets.
Last Summer.

Thumbnail by frostweed
Click the image for an enlarged view.

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

February 27, 2007
7:03 PM

Post #3230817

It sure IS lush! I love it.
wallaby1
Lincoln
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

February 27, 2007
7:21 PM

Post #3231395

I imagine inTX you would get high temperatures too frostweed. Plants that are grown organically are much more able to withstand harsh conditions, your lush garden is proof of that.

I bet you have visiting birds too, and other beneficial wildlife, which rid you of the pests.

I see a lot about alfalfa being used, which should be good and it appears to be easily obtainable in the US. There doesn't seem to be an equivalent here and I don't see the offerings of re-usable byproducts.

We do have a council operated recycling system where we have 3 bins, one for normal rubbish, one for paper, plastic and glass and one for vegetable matter and garden rubbish. The councils compost that and I imagine it is available somewhere, they probalby use it for their own garden schemes and sell some to nurseries.

I googled and found some of the answers, all about wormeries too.

http://www.wasteonline.org.uk/resources/InformationSheets/Compost.htm

I see some councils are selling the compost back to the residents, bring their own bags, pay their 2 and fill it up themselves. A good idea! I like self help. Some smaller places have a community compost where people take their garden waste.

http://www.swindon.gov.uk/gardenwaste


Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

February 27, 2007
7:33 PM

Post #3231457

wallaby, if you have any horse farms/riding stables nearby that would be a great place to check for alfalfa; pelleted horse feed is normally 100% alfalfa.

Darius and pamsue, you're right about cotton being heavily "pesticided" (new word?). However, Hoffman makes an "all natural organic" cottonseed meal and is the only company I've seen that offers it.

Shoe
wallaby1
Lincoln
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

February 27, 2007
8:01 PM

Post #3231557

Shoe, there is a riding stables less than a mile away! So horse feed is used? I wonder how it would do on vegetables.

I found a long list of horse food suppliers, one mentioned alfalfa in the link. I have a neighbour who has two horses, she rents space for them nearby, she also lectures equine husbandry at a nearby college!

frostweed

frostweed
Josephine, Arlington, TX
(Zone 8a)

February 27, 2007
8:03 PM

Post #3231562

Yes, we do have birds, squirrels, opossum, raccoons and assorted lizards that come to visit.
Our yard is a certified habitat through the Texas Parks and Wildlife Urban program. Our plants are mainly Texas native plants which is required in order to be certified, we also provide water and food for the wildlife.
Here are some of the plants last Fall.
Josephine.

Thumbnail by frostweed
Click the image for an enlarged view.

wallaby1
Lincoln
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

February 27, 2007
8:12 PM

Post #3231586

Spectacular! It's amazing how much wildlife comes to an organic garden, I have noticed a marked increase in many birds, frogs, toads, butterflies and moths which I had very few of when I first moved to this house 9 years ago. There is even a regular Hummingbird moth which I think breeds here, it can only get better.
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

February 28, 2007
1:49 AM

Post #3232712

Beautiful, frostweed! Garden on! :>)

Wallaby, yes, horse pellets are usually straight alfalfa. I buy it by the bag and just broadcast the pellets in the garden, sometimes tilling it under, sometimes letting it break down on top of the soil. It is also great for adding to compost piles as it will help heat the pile up as well as adding its nitrogen.

For making a plant food/fertilizer I've even powdered the pellets in a blender, then added bone meal, rock phosphate and/or wood ashes and use it by the spoonful on individual plants when setting them out or when side-dressing them.

I bet your neighbor will give/sell you a bag of pellets; bet she might also let you have some of her horse's manure, too! Couldn't hurt to ask, eh?

Shoe

frostweed

frostweed
Josephine, Arlington, TX
(Zone 8a)

February 28, 2007
2:33 AM

Post #3232905

Thank you Wallaby1 and Horseshoe, I adore my Texas native plants and Wildflowers!!!
spot8907
Ida, MI

February 28, 2007
1:43 PM

Post #3233948

Gorgeous Frostweed, just gorgeous. I used to think my yard looked good but you and bonitin have givin me much higher aspirations! You mentioned aereated compost tea, I have been reading about this. Did you purchase a commercial brewer or make your own? What are your thoughts on it compared to conventional compost tea? The principle seems sound, considering it myself, would like to hear your thoughts.

frostweed

frostweed
Josephine, Arlington, TX
(Zone 8a)

February 28, 2007
6:41 PM

Post #3234803

Thank you Spot8907. I have this article I wrote, I hope it is not too long for the thread. This is how we do it.

Making Aerated Compost Tea at Home the Economical Way. By Josephine Keeney.

Compost tea delivers concentrated benefits to your plants and soil faster than any other fertilizing method.

Aerated compost tea benefits plants and soil by replenishing beneficial microorganisms that may have been destroyed by chemicals and harmful bacteria.
Compost tea starts to degrade as soon as the aerobic process is stopped. By making it yourself, you can use it immediately to obtain the greatest benefit.

Fixed Cost of equipment.
$00.00 1 five gallon bucket which we already had
$13.00 1 ten gallon aquarium pump with three hoses and stones
$01.50 1 yard of fine tulle netting
$14.50 Total fixed cost.

The tulle netting was 50 inches wide and I made 2 bags from one yard. The bags can be reused many times so that is pretty economical. Cheese cloth is usually recommended but we found that but it is more expensive and very flimsy.

Variable cost for each batch.
$.45 1 quart bottle of liquid molasses $3.50 dived by 8
$.20 Cost of electricity to run the pump
$.00 Compost from our bin
$.65 Total variable cost of each batch of 5 gallons.

$4.95 per I gallon of compost tea at the nursery.
$24.10 savings per each 5 gallon batch by making it at home.

Fill the bucket with water from the faucet, install the pump and let it run overnight to clear out the chlorine.
Put 12 cups of compost in the tulle bag and insert one of the three pump hoses in the bag to keep the compost churning. Tie the bag with a twist tie.
Add 1/2 cup of molasses to the bucket and stir to mix, put bag and pump with the other two hoses outside the bag into the bucket and let it work. Stir two or three times a day.
After three days the tea should be very foamy and smell yeasty, but not bad.
Remove the bag and the pump hoses and let it drain into the bucket.
No need to strain the tea, the compost in the bag can be used as a mulch in the garden, worked into the soil, or put back in the compost pile.
You now have 5 gallons of wonderful compost tea that should be used as soon as possible to take advantage of the live microbes.
It can be used full strength to spray your plants, or you can dilute it with water, but be sure to let the water air out beforehand to remove the chlorine.
You can also water your plants with it to give them a boost, especially potted plants that get leached of nutrients by frequent watering.
Compost tea is not harmful to people or pets.


WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COMPOST AND COMPOST TEA?
Compost, in simple terms, is a mixture consisting of decayed organic matter and microbial colonies, in a well-balanced ratio of carbon and nitrogen. Compost tea, on the other hand, is a liquid extraction of beneficial microorganisms and soluble nutrients from the compost that is reproduced during the brewing process.

Many organisms grow in compost tea, resulting in higher numbers of organisms in tea than in compost. The brewing process increases microbial activity in less time than compost. Compost tea is necessary for coverage of plant surface to block harmful organisms access to leaves. Compost tea can be applied to leaves, twigs, bark and soil, whereas compost can only be applied to the soil.

Both are very important tools to use. Happy Composting and Happy Brewing.

spot8907
Ida, MI

March 2, 2007
2:08 PM

Post #3240751

Frostweed, thank you for your excellent description. I would like to add one more money saving and recycling idea. Instead of the tulle bags you are using, try used pantyhose. I have used it for regular compost tea with success. If you don't use pantyhose yourself try posting a wanted add on freecycle or ask a lady friend who works in an office to save them for you. Women working in offices typically have a good supply. If you use the leg that has a run in it you can double it over to cover the hole or strain your compost tea before attempting to put it through a sprayer. Used pantyhose also have lots of other uses one of the best of which is plant ties so you could save da,aged legs for other uses.
I take it you are a believer in the aireated brewing method? I have read some about this and am ready to give it a try. What I have read is very incouraging. The aireated tea has a high concentration of good aerobic bacteria. Anerobic bacteria is what gives regular compost tea its bad odor. The good bacteria when sprayed on plants colonizes the surface area, this keeps bad diseas organisms from getting in, there is no room at the inn so to speak. Apparently most diseases are quite effectively controlled in this manner and there is even commorcial lawn care companies using brewed compost tea for this purpose as well as the fertilizer benefits. Obviously it is working well for you, your gardens are beautifull, looks like I'm going to see if I can find a fishtank airpump on freecycle, I think I will take as many as I can find!

frostweed

frostweed
Josephine, Arlington, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 2, 2007
2:30 PM

Post #3240829

Spot8907, thank you for your response, the pantyhose idea is good, but I find it hard to get the compost in them, the bag is nice and wide, and it lasts a long time. I do use the pantyhose for ties, it works great.
The pumps on freecycle!! now why didn't I think of that!!! Great idea!!!
Josephine.
spot8907
Ida, MI

March 2, 2007
2:55 PM

Post #3240902

Try cutting the bottom out of a nursery pot, sand down any rough edges and put it in the pantyhose to hold it open for filling. Or better yet if you have an old wide peice of pvc pipe or some such thing, would work too. Just watck for any sharp edges that would snag your pantyhose. Gonna look for that book you mentioned. It is a book correct?
spot8907
Ida, MI

March 2, 2007
3:02 PM

Post #3240934

The best info I have found on the subject of aerated compost tea is the book "Teaming With Microbes". Ecxellent book that I highly recomend to every gardener. It explains so much about what goes on in your soil in and understandable way and tells you how to "team up" with the microbes to help them perform their magic.

frostweed

frostweed
Josephine, Arlington, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 2, 2007
3:06 PM

Post #3240953

I forgot to mention sometime back when wood ashes came up that I found another excellent use for them.
One year I planted strawberries and they were beautiful but, the sow bugs or (rolly polys as some people call them) were eating them as they began to ripen, and I couldn't get any perfect ones.
Well, I scattered wood ashes on both sides of the rows and no more chewed fruit, they don't like to walk across the ashes, I guess it harms them in some way.

frostweed

frostweed
Josephine, Arlington, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 2, 2007
3:15 PM

Post #3240979

The title on my post was the title of my article not a book, but i will look for the book you mentioned;
Teaming With Microbes it sounds like a great book to have.

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

March 2, 2007
3:26 PM

Post #3241011

May I go waaaaay out on a limb here?

Machelle Small Wright (author) at http://www.perelandra-ltd.com/ has written and demonstrated how to help the beneficial microbes in your garden.

The information is in her Garden Workbooks.
pepper23
KC Metro area, MO
(Zone 6a)

March 3, 2007
1:39 AM

Post #3242895

I have heard of a good fertilizer from a company called TerraCycle. They use worm castings. Can be found at Wal*Mart.

This message was edited Mar 4, 2007 4:42 PM
rtl850nomore
Glendale/Parks, AZ

March 3, 2007
5:39 PM

Post #3244462

Further out on that limb is a book called The Secret Life of Plants which introduces one to a whole host of ideas.

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

March 4, 2007
9:24 PM

Post #3248000

Thanks~
johnsonjrbm
Olympia, WA
(Zone 7b)

March 16, 2007
7:28 AM

Post #3286920

"i wonder about the cottonseed meal because pesticides used in cotton production?"

You have a good question, and the answer is that the pesticides are oil-soluble, and so they generally go with the cottonseed oil that is pressed out, leaving almost no residues in the cottonseed meal. However, if you eat foods with cottonseed oil, you might want to think twice.

I also use Steve Solomon's organic fertilizer formula (soybean meal is the cheapest locally), and have had fantastic results with it.
DCarrington
Riverview, NB
(Zone 5b)

March 19, 2007
2:56 PM

Post #3298343

Don't send me mail over this post as it may contain information you don't want to read or know anything about. I myself, found it interesting and as I continued to read, I learned an awful lot about organisims, micro-organisims, michrohusbandry, and Thermophilic composting.

I didn't see this above and if I missed it, please excuse the post.

I receive different News Letters like, The Farmers Alminac, Organic Gardening, etc. One of those places, I think it was "The New Farm News Letter" has something on this topic. Here is the link to follow: http://weblife.org/humanure/

This message was edited Mar 19, 2007 3:58 PM

frostweed

frostweed
Josephine, Arlington, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 19, 2007
3:12 PM

Post #3298387

Yes, I have seen that book and i think it makes a lot of sense, however, I don't think many people are ready to try it yet.
garden_mermaid
San Francisco Bay Ar, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 19, 2007
3:13 PM

Post #3298395

DCar, you should be safe with this topic here. There is a Humanure thread already started in the Sustainable Alternatives forum.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/698582/
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

March 19, 2007
3:41 PM

Post #3298477

DCarrington, thanks for that link. Great info!

Makes me wanna make a sawdust toilet...the nearest bathroom to my Shoffice is quite a few hundred feet away!

Shoe

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

March 19, 2007
4:43 PM

Post #3298669

Shoe, DCarrington is our old friend DarrellR. I 'spects he will have a lot to contribute here.
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

March 19, 2007
5:11 PM

Post #3298771

No way, darius!!! Yay! Thanks for the update!

Darrell, changed your moniker, eh? Trying to slip one over on me or sumpin'!? *grin

Good to see you posting. Will be looking for your farm updates in Market forum.

Hope you are doing well and happy.

Shoe
DCarrington
Riverview, NB
(Zone 5b)

March 19, 2007
5:20 PM

Post #3298813

Tis' I. Ha ha ha

Good to see you too Shoe.

How are you doing with your greenhouses? Are you all ready for this coming year? I'm still working on mine. Frame is up and hopefully the weather will let us put the plastic on.

Darius, thank you for the email telling me about this new forum.
spot8907
Ida, MI

March 19, 2007
6:05 PM

Post #3298987

Yep, this is a down and dirty forum here, we have already brought up the subject of human-doo. Check out the humanure thread and please add your thoughts to it, I would like to encourage more folks to see the light on this issue especially the organic gardening folks always looking for more scources of nitrogen. And Shoe, I have enjoyed your posts immensly in other forums, glad to see you join us here too. Get yourself a box, a toilet seat and a bucket with some sawdust and quit walkin'. LOL

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

March 19, 2007
6:07 PM

Post #3299003

I am amenable to humanure... as long as it does NOT come from a public waste treatment plant. You'd never convince me that they can get out all the flushed medicines, paints, etc.
spot8907
Ida, MI

March 19, 2007
6:10 PM

Post #3299018

Nope, thats not humanure, thats sewage sludge, I wouldn't want that either. The point is that if you are using the manure from your own family to grow things to feed your own family you cant get a disease that you don't already have and well managed compost will kill anything your family does have anyway. But using only manure from your own family unit is an additional safety measure.

This message was edited Mar 19, 2007 6:12 PM
garden_mermaid
San Francisco Bay Ar, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 19, 2007
6:52 PM

Post #3299189

Humanure was used to fertilize crops over much of the world for millennia. Of course, they didn't have the chemical/pharma conatimination issues we have today. Controlled access to the outhouse is important!
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

March 20, 2007
11:40 AM

Post #3301543

Darrell, have you got a composting toilet up and running? Just wonder if you are going to give it a try.

And yes, Spot...maybe I can put my sawdust toilet in the nearby chicken coop. (That would give me a buffet of doo to choose from for composting, eh?)

Off and running. Everyone have a great day.

Shoe

DCarrington
Riverview, NB
(Zone 5b)

March 20, 2007
2:59 PM

Post #3302151

No, I sure don't. However, I do have the lumber and other things I need in order to do it.

I plan on putting it right in the house where the current toilet is. I'll take the one I have out and put this one in. I plan on having a drawer that slides out when I need to empty it. Next to it, I'll have a shoot or bin with a cup attached to something, so I know where it is all the time, and use the bin for the saw dust.

I should also add here, I'm not going to pull out my flush toilet until I've tested this puppy first. I'll know more by mid-summer.

I can get free sawdust from the mill down the road.

I'm fairly certain this will all work. If you remember, I had an acre of woods cleared here in order to make room for all the things that need to be here for the store. After the tree's were cut down, I had to have it "grubbed", i.e. I had to have the roots pulled out. Under the roots was 10 to 15 feet deep of peat.

Combining the peat with the saw dust and "droppings", I hope to have a working compost. I'll add to it things from the kitchen like potato pealings, cucumber pealings, egg shells, etc. and of course any vegetable I pull off the store shelf.

I still need to finish the greenhouse. I still need to finish the inside of the store too. I have the front door installed, back door in, and window finished. Wiring of the store is finished and next will be the insulation, vapor barrier, walls, lights, fan, and I'm out of breath. Ha ha ha ha

When I have the vegetable garden soil tested by the Province, i.e. Agriculture Department, I will have the humanure pile tested as well. I'll post results as I get them.

garden_mermaid
San Francisco Bay Ar, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 20, 2007
3:04 PM

Post #3302168

Looking forward to hearing about your progress. Very inspiring!
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

March 20, 2007
4:56 PM

Post #3302545

Sounds like a great plan to me! And sounds like you are continuing to move right along, too!

Pssst...don't tell the Ag folks what they are testing when they do your humanure pile. Wait for the results and then brag about it! :>)

Shoe
garden_mermaid
San Francisco Bay Ar, CA
(Zone 9b)

March 20, 2007
4:58 PM

Post #3302556

Is there any reason to ever tell them?
spot8907
Ida, MI

March 21, 2007
1:22 PM

Post #3305551

Yea, I don't think I would even let them know I had a humanure pile. Are you sure there are no laws against it in your area?
DCarrington
Riverview, NB
(Zone 5b)

March 21, 2007
2:56 PM

Post #3305689

I can see where my post might have been a bit misleading and will articulate myself a little better here.

I will have the soil tested where the horse and cow manure are incorporated into the soil for vegetables.

I will have the soil tested where Humanure has been incorporated into the soil for flower production, bulb production, tuber production, etc.

I am "not" having the compost pile tested where horse & cow manures are being composted.

I am "not" having the compost pile tested where humanure is being composted.

Testing either compost pile never crossed my mind and to be blunt, is a bit redundant to consider.
spot8907
Ida, MI

March 21, 2007
3:20 PM

Post #3305758

I get what your saying now. Yes please keep us updated on the results.

frostweed

frostweed
Josephine, Arlington, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 21, 2007
3:28 PM

Post #3305785

It sounds to me like you are handling it all just right.
EMEric
Tucson, AZ

January 13, 2008
8:09 PM

Post #4396647

This thread started with making your own fertilizer and ended up talking almost completely about compost. Funny how that happens...

I would like to say that I have been making various forms of fertilizers for my gardens for years. I used to maintain active (hot) compost piles as well until I learned of the Bokashi method, Kyusei Nature Farming, and Effective Microorganisms (EM1). There are a few threads in Daves on this.
One is here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/796403/
And another here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/802294/

Bokashi, as opposed to composting, preserves more nutrients in the organic matter because there is no heating or rotting during the process. The finished product could be likened to the change from cucumber to pickle than cucumber to soil. Materials are fermented, after inoculated with EM1, to break down the lignin, increase the numbers of beneficial microbes, and control pathogens. After 2-4 weeks of fermentation, the finished material is called "bokashi". This is a Japanese word that means fermented organic matter. Many people with livestock would also call this silage, although bokashi has a much sweeter smell.

All minerals (made bio-available through the fermentation process), NPK, enzymes, beneficial fungi, etc are preserved in the final product. Since could be a food, you bury it and cover it with at least 8 inches of soil. The materials will completely break down in the soil in about 2-4 weeks depending on moisture and amount of worms in the soil.

It is a simple system that has over a 25 year track record. Many schools set up systems like this to recycle their food wastes... Did I say you can include meats and dairy in this...?
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI
(Zone 11)

January 22, 2008
9:46 PM

Post #4439590

Once the EM is encorporated into the soil or the bran or the ..., can it be recycled? Or do you have to add new product = $$$$ each time you mix up a batch?
EMEric
Tucson, AZ

January 22, 2008
11:32 PM

Post #4440053

AlohaHoya,
You need the EM1 as a starter each time. For the bokashi, you need EM1, a sugar source (like molasses), water, and some carbon material. If you are making your own bokashi, and are a family of 4, for about $20-$25 a year, you can make a #50 bag of bokashi. This is much cheaper than any fertilizer on the market. I am not sure what it would cost on Hawaii. I have never been there. I know they sell quarts over there, but I don't know how much they cost. I do know that the EM1 is more expensive on the islands than the mainland because of shipping.

Since everything is mixed together and incorporated into the soil, it will all break down. You can't reuse this material.

When you use a bucket with a strainer in the bottom, you can collect the liquid and use that as a liquid fertilizer. You only use about 1 teaspoon per gallon of this liquid, so a little goes a very long way.

Have you ever tried Lafayette Coffee? They are a grower on Kona. They grow all their certified organic coffee with EM1 and make bokashi with their waste products. It is the best coffee I have ever tasted. There are some pineapple growers over there using it too. I have seen a few videos from Hawaii...like the Honolulu Zoo uses EM1 in their hippo exhibit. The Hawaiian Hilton uses it in the penguin exhibit too.
Regards,
Eric
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI
(Zone 11)

January 23, 2008
12:13 AM

Post #4440200

Interesting... very interesting. Thanks for the info...

Carol

PS We grow our own coffee so no need to buy the expensive stuff. ... :>)))
EMEric
Tucson, AZ

January 23, 2008
12:24 AM

Post #4440258

Hi Carol,
I wish I could...but, I probably would have constant caffeine headaches! Because it's so expensive, it is only a rare treat, but one you never forget!
Eric
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI
(Zone 11)

January 23, 2008
2:06 AM

Post #4440775

Actually...we are told that ours is better...we produce about 400 lbs a year. It is a labor of love...
EMEric
Tucson, AZ

January 23, 2008
2:56 AM

Post #4441143

Oooh... Do you sell it, or use it? mmm? I would love to try it.
Do you roast the beans yourself?

AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI
(Zone 11)

January 23, 2008
5:13 AM

Post #4441651

We process the beans and deliver the dried cherries in parchement to a friend who can shell them and who has a roaster. We sell what is leftover after family and friends get into it. it is a medium roast and I have to say, being a tea drinker, i really like it!!!! Send a dmail if you are interested. We think that the fellow who roasts it may use EM...
mametcalf
Genesee Twp, MI
(Zone 5b)

July 27, 2008
12:19 AM

Post #5324645

I like to make my own organic fertilizer from fish my husband catches that we do not care to eat, that and the scraps left from cleaning fish. The fish emulsion concentrates at the store are SOOOO expensive. We just use an old plastic barrel, with lid, dump in the cut up fish and fish parts, add sawdust and molasses (there is an actual "recipe" that I have somewhere) and let it sit. The results are fantastic. The only problem is that it does smell, so you've got to keep the barrel some distance from occupied buildings. Also, you shouldn't use it too close to the time that you harvest your veggies so that you do not run the risk of them smelling/tasting fishy.
Wvdaisy
Buffalo, WV
(Zone 7a)

July 27, 2008
10:35 AM

Post #5326118

Would love to see the exact recipe. Sounds great and easy to do...as long as you can stand the smell ;)

Lana
mametcalf
Genesee Twp, MI
(Zone 5b)

July 27, 2008
3:01 PM

Post #5327099

Lana -

Here is the basic recipe:

"If you are using fresh fish, you need to compost it separately in a 5 gallon closeable bucket. Fill bucket 1/2 full with extra browns like sawdust, leaves, or straw. You can add molasses to the fishy mixture in order to build up microbes in order to speed up decomposition. The sugars will also help control odors too. Open the bucket and stir the fishy paste daily or every other day in order to get air in the mix for better decomposition and better aerobic microbial growth in the emulsion. Let this paste rot for at least 1-2 weeks. The browns help control offensive odors and absorb organic nitrogen from the fish so that it is not leached out or evaporated.

Since commercial fish emulsions contain sulfur in the form of sulfuric acid, if you like you could add 1-2 tblsp of Epsom salt to the mix for extra magnesium and sulfur. Or to mimic the acidity of sulfuric acid and add extra trace elements you could add 1-2 tbsp of apple cider vinegar to the mix. NOTE: Recent studies have shown that unsulfured molasses or dry molasses powder is best for faster microbial growth in tea brewing.

You can now safely take the decomposed fish paste from the 5 gallon bucket and add it to your regular hot composting piles or add it to your special compost tea recipes. The more vegetable or fruity organic matter that you add to fishy compost the better you remove the offensive smells and the more trace elements you add to your compost and teas. This of course is optional. "

And here is the link for complete information (the above is an excerpt):


http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/organic/2002080041031662.html


This message was edited Jul 27, 2008 11:02 AM
EMEric
Tucson, AZ

July 30, 2008
12:46 AM

Post #5340721

You could follow up with a spray application of AEM1 (Activated EM1 Microbial Inoculant) to get rid of the smell of the fish. You would need a strong rate of maybe 1-4 ounces per gallon of water, but it works for the fish emulsion I use.
Eric
Wvdaisy
Buffalo, WV
(Zone 7a)

July 30, 2008
12:52 AM

Post #5340756

Thanks!

Lana
mametcalf
Genesee Twp, MI
(Zone 5b)

July 30, 2008
2:12 AM

Post #5341260

Thanks for the hint on the fish smell. My husband has been fishing quite a bit lately and is sometimes too lazy to throw the fish in the barrel. Straight in the garden they go. It definitely improves the soil, but the smell is STRONG!
MrPappyG
Glassboro, NJ

January 18, 2012
10:55 PM

Post #8973691

It's a shame this thread Died almost four years ago... I Love to Fish, and use the head's and Bones to nurture the soil (I keep it Frozen until ready for corn)...I grew up in New England with the Three Sister's and the American Indian way of Growing Corn, Dig a Trough in the Spring 12 inches deep as Early as you can work the soil place one fish head every 8 inches and bury over, place the skeletal remains of the Fish in the Compost Pile, when the ground get's to about 70 Degrees place one corn Kernel every 8 inches water from the rain Barrel, and wait, when it get's to around 10 inches High add the composted Fish Bones they wont be totally broken down but will feed next year's crop's...and will supplement the Corn with Natural "TEA", whenever it rain's...
crittergarden
Pittsburgh, PA

March 19, 2012
6:43 AM

Post #9048435

Homemade Organic fertilizer?
compost, pet house rabbits and a soon to be small coop of chickens...
crittergarden
Pittsburgh, PA

March 19, 2012
7:17 AM

Post #9048483

OH!
And let's not forget the happy, healthy earthworms!
Gazoodles
Iowa Park, TX
(Zone 7b)

March 22, 2012
1:21 PM

Post #9053013

Great information here! Now just need to go get a fishing license...

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Other Sustainable Alternatives Threads you might be interested in:

SubjectThread StarterRepliesLast Post
Welcome to the sustainable alternatives discussion forum! dave 136 May 17, 2012 9:36 PM
Do you have green roofs in your city? frostweed 45 Apr 26, 2011 9:19 AM
Permaculture? darius 234 Mar 22, 2008 11:13 PM
Anyone use rainwater or grey water? spot8907 151 Jul 22, 2013 5:23 AM
Rain Gardens KaperC 2 Mar 5, 2007 9:55 PM


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