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I watched and taped Oprah a few weeks ago and want to take action.
Our house looks exactly like the house that they showed on the show.
I have taken all of the piles of clothing out of our bedrooms.
There is sooooooooo much and I am having an anxiety attack right now because I don't want to get my husband upset for getting rid of his things that I know he now longer needs.
One more funny thing. I live in Pennsylvania and you know how cold it is here.
Well, I have not been able to find my Winter coat until today when I brought all of the clothing in out bedroom out onto the living room floor.
That is so very pitiful to me. I was so happy to see my Winter coat.
Now, My question, What do I do with all of this stuff that is not mine that obviously does not belong on the floor in the bedrooms that is absolutely unusable.
I already know what to do with the stuff I don't need. I'm tossing it. But, I don't feel comfortable doing that with My husbands and my 2 boys unneeded clothing.
Oh. I would like to add that we also have a huge pile of clothing down in the basement.
I want to get all of this under control.
Oh gee, I truely hope someone is online that can give me some tips.
Thanks for help.
Donate it - we do that 2-3 times a year. Helps thin out the closet, and allows us to start over. Plus it helps someone much less fortunate that us.
I'll bet the male members of your family would "get into it" if properly presented. That is what happened with me. DW was building a BIG box for Purple Heart, and asked if I had anything to add. I did not add much the first year, but now I'm usually the one that initiates the bag/box of things.
Once a year, I replace dress slacks, white shirts, socks, etc. at the outlet stores, so donate the previous load. If something is "special" it does not go, but most get replaced.
I'm a real messie and I'm working on my issues, too! According to the flylady (thread from the first or second page here), you should declutter your house before you take on any cleaning or organizing issues. Personally, I would take some large boxes and sort the clothes out. If they are clean, then pack away in drawers or hang in closet. If there are clothes that your family doesn't need anymore, pack them in a box and take them all to goodwill.
You may have overwhelmed yourself. Those people on Oprah had trucks waiting and had help. They stood around while a crew did the work. And piled their belongings in the driveway! If you don't have an organizer and you are doing it yourself, you got to use "baby steps" as fly lady says. for example, you may want to procede by the square yard, instead of a whole room or whole house approach. Start at the door, and go systematically from the door around the room "decluttering". In the house museum business this is called Mt Vernonizing---When you are attacking the clutter in an historic house. You might want 2 big boxes, when you find something that belongs to the kids, put it in the kid's box, and also have a DH. Tell them they have ---- weeks to go through their box or it is going to the (where-ever you have free pickup for recycling stuff).
Do look at [HYPERLINK@www.flylady.com.] There is a lot of useful information even if you don't want her e-mails. She also reminds you not to get overwhelmed and not to beat yourself up. That is more important than you can imagine. Some organizers say if you haven't worn a piece of clothing in a year, it should go to the recyclers. Well, if I could have found it last year, I might have worn it. I know how glad you were to see that winter coat! And don't beat up on your DH and children either. It is a learning process for everyone.
We have learned in our culture to acquire so much stuff. But we never learned where to put it, or how to use it to make our homes comfortable and tranquil instead of piled with stuff much of which we can't remember we even have. We need to imagine our rooms as beautiful designs that help us live our lives in peace and serenity.
The first thing to do is get rid of all the trash. The second is to get rid of stuff. When I moved I found I had way to much stuff and I had to be strong and get rid of stuff. I haven't missed anything. Another thing is that if your family isn't helping you then take their stuff that you think that they could get rid of, put it in boxes then if they don't ask for it in 6 months get rid of it. Another thing to do is work on one room at a time, make a place for everything. You don't have to do it all at once, Perhaps a closet, then under the bed then the floor. One problem I had was I kept moving the same things around all the time. I finally decided that it needed a place or it couldn't stay. The first time getting rid of stuff is hard but it gets easier and becomes a relief! If you don't use it, need it or love it - goodbye. Even gifts from family members - you do NOT have to keep every gift that you get.
I realize I may sound like an old woman, but I cannot
say enough about "A place for everything and everything in it's place."
It may take a while to get there, but keep your sense of humor
and take it one thing, one day at a time. Once you establish what
you do and do not need, you can begin making homes for things
and keeping those things in such places.
If you can afford it, every time you go to the grocery store, pick up
one of those plastic tubs with lids. Our local mart carries a small and
also a medium sized tub with lid for about three dollars. Keep in mind,
you can change the contents, so it isn't like you are buying storage
containers which cannot be altered. Besides, since you have a tub
to haul groceries home in, it comes in really handy! Get one if you
can, two is even better. Every trip. Grab one. This is how I did it and
you WILL see a difference soon. It gets easier and feels so good to
know what is where without all that 'stuff' all over.
As winter is coming to an end, now would be a great time to pick up
tubs for winter clothing. Simply label the tub with 'COATS' or 'JACKETS'
and such. You can even have one tub just for mittens, hats, scarves, etc.
Since you aren't going to use the winter clothing and such in the coming
months, there is no sense in having them clutter up the house. Don't just
buy 500 of the tubs at once or you will be overwhelmed. Each week, buy
another couple of tubs and decide what you have enough of to keep in
the tubs that does not need to be out, in the house, laying around, etc.
Same goes for summer clothing. Why have shorts and bathing suits taking
up room when you don't even use them in the winter?
You mentioned a basement, so it sounds like you have the perfect place
for all of these tubs. Believe me, it won't take long to have stacks of tubs,
but as long as you label them properly and keep them stacked neatly, only
a few per stack, it won't take long to clear all the clutter.
Here are a few examples of tub contents from our storage room:
COATS & JACKETS
GLOVES, HATS & SCARVES
CRAFT SUPPLIES
BEEKEEPING CLOTHING
BEEKEEPING SUPPLIES
BEESWAX AND CANDLE SUPPLIES
Etc.
See the idea? We have many of these tubs, but I still
keep buying them. They are handy as can be.
A few more ideas:
TOYS (once the kids outgrow them, donate them, sell them,
whatever, then the tub can be used for something else)
PET SUPPLIES (Collars, extra dog dishes, etc.)
GARDEN SUPPLIES (Fertilizer, plant food, etc.)
It may sound anal to some, but is certainly well worth the effort.
Life is much easier. Hubby asks where it is, and I answer "In a
tub labeled with the title in the shed shop." Ahh. Life is good!
Hope you'll consider the tub idea. I think it will help you bunches!
I used to think I had to save the clothing, too, but
what I began doing was to keep a plastic bag handy.
When I came across an item that no longer fit any of
us, was ready for the rag bag, or was simply never worn,
I just tossed it into the Goodwill bag.
When you buy a new article of clothing, get rid of several
things.
It won't take long to sort through clothing this way. If you
feel your husband will get upset over certain items, put
them in a tub and mark it "HUBBY'S STUFF HE WON'T
GET RID OF" or something, and date it. When that tub sits around
for months on end and he doesn't even remember what is in the
tub, that's your sign. Don't use it, can't remember it, don't need it.
I second the storage tubs! We live in a small bungalow and have 3 small kids (6, 3, and 2) and no basement! Luckily, we do have an easily accessible attic. With our first daughter, I saved everything. As my second daughter has grown out of things, I've begun to sort more. The outfits I love go in bins up in the attic. Then, each of my kids has their own special bin with their name on it in the attic. I put birthday cards, special "loveys" they had, special outfits in there so they can eash have their own things that were not shared, when they grow up. I also fill up my old empty diaper cases with all of the clothes I'm not saving, and every month or so, I take them to a consignment shop. Whatever I don't sell, I either leave it in the box for the next year's garage sale and stick it in the attic or take it to donate (good tax deductions!) It was very hard at first, getting rid of my babies clothes, but it's gotten alot easier. Toys are the worst for me. It seems like the toys the kids actually want to part with are the ones that I am fondest of, so I don't want to get rid of them. BUT, we did go through quite alot of them last year for our garage sale. The kids weren't too crazy about the idea at first, but when they found out they got to keep all the money they made from selling them, they were more into the idea. They actually bring me stuff every so often, asking to put it up in the garage sale boxes now! I got rid of alot of things from my attic that I was saving for "some day" and made quite a bit of money at the garage sale. That is also good incentive to part with things you don't have use for...think of what you can get with the money you make from it! My house is still far from clutter free, but I'm working on it. The main thing that has been helping me lately is putting things away right away, not setting them down somewhere to "do it later." Later never comes, then I have big piles of things to put away, when if I just would have put it away to begin with, it would be done. Now, I try to grab things that are out of place while I'm walking past them and put them away on my way to wherever I'm going. It's slowly but surely helping. I'm also bribing my girls (you gotta do what works!) that if they keep their room clean for a week (they have 2 more days) we can go to Chuckee Cheese. I hope that if they get in the habit of it, in a few weeks, I won't even have to ask them anymore, they'll just be used to doing it. Clothes piles have been a struggle for me, too. I do so much laundry, I never get it folded and put away. Lately, I'll ask the little ones to bring me the clothes from the piles (they think they're so big helping) and I'll fold them while I'm watching TV. I get to wind down a little bit from the day, the kids are occupied, and I'm getting something done. If my oldest is home from school when I'm doing it, she loves to help fold. My little boy even likes to fold his own clothes. He's so proud when he gets them folded right. My husband has even been impressed and commented about how much better I've been doing lately and offered to do more of the little fixer-upper tasks I've asked him to do and he hasn't done yet. (He knows what kind of incentives get me going.) Talk to your husband and kids. Chances are, they might be just as confused or frustrated about it as you are. Oh, and a nice incentive for getting husbands to go through their clothes for you: Turn a few ratty old t-shirts he never wears but hasn't thrown out yet into rags, and he may get the idea a little sooner (worked for me!) Good luck, and remember, slow and steady wins the race!
Msnomoreclutter, your situation is mine. And I am SO GLAD that I was not the only one who was furious with the Oprah show that had tons of people helping!!!!!!!!!! WHERE ARE THEY and when are they coming to my house???
I DID try the "take everything outside" strategy. Guess what? I never put it all back. It rained, and I destroyed my electric lawn mower, a bike, and several pieces of furniture. Now I have a pile of junk on the side of my house.
I also use plastic storage bins. Now I have a million carefully labeled bins with junk in them!
Cementing this problem is a DH who blames the clutter on me and makes me feel ashamed of my messiness. I am already ashamed!!!
Does anyone have any insights into the psychology of the problem?? I'm at a crisis here!
I FINALLY have a place for everything and everything in it's place. I got so frustrated w/the trash/giveaway/save thing that I finally put all of it in one box. Then when no one admitted missing anything I finally subdivided it into just 2 categories:trash & treasure. The trash was clothes that I didn't want and couldn't use and the treasure was stiff someone else could use. I took a good look at stuff that I didn't use or hadn't used in a long time and got rid of that. This included pots and pans, old electric can openers, etc. Hope fully someone else is using those things. The other catagory was "dust catchers" no matter where they came from. If it wasn't something I was definitely in love with, out it went. It was a time to be ruthless. And it worked. I don't miss anything and I haven't had to replace anything in the 6 months since I threw it out.
I think the hardest thing is when you live with your family and they contribute to the problem but won't do anything about it!
The second hardest part is getting started.
Start with one room. Do the everyday things (like dishes and stuff) but other wise do one room and work on it until it is finished (it could take weeks). In that one room, make a place for everthing and get rid of stuff. If it doesn't have a place it goes! I know it's hard to part with grandmas clock that has never worked and is so ugly you would never show anybody but you are a soldier, be strong! Gramdma doesn't need it anymore, neither do you and don't think for a moment that if you save it and hand it down to your children that they are going to save it - their just gonna toss it out and never tell you!
Perhaps do the kids rooms last. They will probably get messiest first. Face it - most teenagers are horrible slobs. Just close their doors! You don't have to do everyroom, though it would be nice
One thing that I realized is that I can actually wear clothes more than once before I wash it. Unless I spill food on it, or it smells I try and wear things more than once before I wash it. A hundred years ago they would wear their clothes everyday for a week before it was washed! With younger children you will have to do more laundry but let the teenagers do some laundry, they are going to have to someday anyway.
How true. Hubby and I went through a buying phase for a few years,
trying to recreate or establish warm and fuzzy memories of our younger
years, when in fact, those material objects did nothing but clutter up the
house.
I don't doubt my kids will sell my things for a quarter at a yard sale. Things
I thought were so darned valuable. Not to them.
'Does anyone have any insights into the psychology of the problem?? I'm at a crisis here!"
I think there is a psychology here. I can't remember the program but one woman said that when she goes into a house and it is horribly messy and cluttered. The first thing she thinks is "What is the underlying problem here?" Because if she didn't address the underlying problem, the house was going to be back to a mess in 6 months.
My mother has a friend who has to buy 3 of everything and lots of stuff she never even uses and has to keep it. She has paths in her house, trash everywhere, things stacked up on the furniture and a full upright freezer full of food and she lives alone. She'll never eat that food before it goes bad. Something is going on there!
Another thing I noticed is that many women tend to be what their mother was not. So if grandma is neat as a pin, her daughter is messy (rebellion, don't want to be like my mother etc.), then the granddaughter is neat as a pin (rebellion, don't want to be like my mother ). Not always but in many families I see that a lot. Definitely something psychological there!
And I have to tell you a secret. All those people that write those books on organizing everything - they LOVE organizing. Some LOVE to clean. Most people don't which is why those things don't work with the really messy people who may HATE to clean. I think most people are in between. So those books work well for people who are already organized. If you hate to clean and tidy don't make those books or programs feel bad - most of us aren't THAT organized. I actually find cleaning meditative and calming - but I know that's not how most people are. I enjoy the nurturing quality of the act of cleaning and the result. I think about a lot of things when I'm scrubbing that toilet! I rarely have guests so I know that I am doing it for ME not for any other reason. Despite this I have terrible depression and may not be able to do anything for WEEKS. In addition a messy room makes my depression worse and vicious cycle continues.
My house is not especially cluttered now and it has taken me six months to do three rooms so that there is a place for everything that goes in that room. I did it one drawer at a time. I have major depression and if you have ever been sick, you know that your house can get trashed in hours. I have the hardest time getting out of bed or even showering but on those better days I may feel like doing one shelf in a closet. I HAD to get rid of things because I couldn't take care of things the way they are. But those three rooms are neat (although I really have to do some thorough cleaning one of these days. Since my kitchen was the room which was going to get messy the fastest I did it first. I was severe. I did not need an apple peeler when I haven't made an apple pie in 20 years! And I made a rule. I would clean the kitchen once a day - no more than that or I would be in there all the time putting dishes in the diswasher, or cleaning counters etc. I just don't have the energy to do that kind of cleaning.
Flylady would never work for me because I can't do things everyday but there are some good ideas there. So I take the ideas that will work for me.
Many days I can't even do that - but when I have a better day I am not so overwhelmed with stuff that I can't even get started.
I also think that if you are a perfectionist it can be even harder - because you don't want to do it unless you can do it perfectly - so you don't do it.
Yeah, on those programs, they have 20 people helping (paid I might add). So of course it's going to get done!
I went to a yard sale. the woman having the sale was probably in her 50s. children grown and gone. but all the things in the sale were childrens clothes and toys. she said she had been saving those things all these years. finally got the kids to look at the stuff she had saved for them. they didn't want any of it. all those years space she could have used for her life was used to save those things for children who had grown up and gone. never to wear those little shirts, or play with those cute little toys again.
Mobi: so good to hear from you. tornadoes all day in Alabama.
Mobi, you hit the "perfectionist" diagnosis right on the head!!!
In case you didn't already know, I am the only person on Earth who knows how to do things right! ;-)
So the problem becomes: I have to clean the kitchen. Take EVERYTHING off the counters, bleach the counters, wipe the cabinet facings, clean out the refrigerator, the liner of the dishwasher..etc. etc.. because that's how you clean a kitchen!!! I've gone so far as to touch up the wall paint!!! So, if it can't be done right because I'm tired, my back hurts, whatever, it doesn't get done. It's black or white with me!
In addition, I DETEST cleaning and so did my Mom. When my Mom had to clean, she went into an unholy tirade! She yelled at me, called me a slob, room is a pigsty, etc. I learned to associate housework with anxiety. If I know someone is coming over to visit, I have a panic attack and will clean for however many hours I have before that person comes over. I have cleaned for over 24 hours straight. When the person visits me, I'm too worn out and worried about the way things look to enjoy the company. Everyone else's house seems perfect to me.
I have depression and generalized anxiety issues, and am on medication as well. I tell my Dr. about my inability to clean, and he doesn't have anything to offer in the way of advice. Knowing why you're messy and DOING something about it is something entirely different.
Maybe if a tornado hit my house, it would put everything in the right place...
Now that I have my house organized it's funny that it never gets "dirty". While I have been under the weather one of my granddaughters came over and said she was there to clean the house for me. After about an hour she was "thru". I said that was nice but couldn't be. She said that she couldn't find enough to do. She dusted and ran the vacuum and washed the kitchen floor and bathroom floors. I took a good look after she left. "surely she didn't do everything" I thought to myself. Then I realized that it wasn't dirty (but then I didn't think it was particularly). To see your house thru someone elses eyes is a real eye opener. Now I feel good about my getting things in order. I really HATE to clean. Once I got it done, I NEVER want to do it again. We just pick up after ourselves now. There is a difference between a MESS and DIRT. I'd rather cook or garden and I hate to shop.
Ann, that's funny b/c I LOVE to shop. When I need to clean a room, the best way for me to do it is to shop and buy accessories for that room; then, I'll be caught up in the novelty of my new decor and be happy to clean for a little bit. This gets pricey. I buy a lot of decorative fabric to motivate me. I just bought a new vase, and the livingroom got a good once-over!!
Except... this kind of strategy just leads to MORE CLUTTER.
Funny, DH thinks gardening is "work"!!! I see my garden as a painting that paints back. I love planning it, planting it, then see what IT wants to do... nothing at all like housework, which is just cleaning the same things over and over.
I detest housework probably for reasons mentioned above by several of you. My mother kept an immaculate house because she felt it was the only way to be a moral person. And my father felt the same way. Messiness and clutter meant you were a bad person. I was never allowed to go anywhere until my room was clean and my room was rarely clean enough to spring me. So when they told me I had to clean my room before I could go to a friend's house, I just sat in my room and cried. The family still jokes about it to this day. It is no joke to me. It is still a sore point.
I might add that the men ( father and brother) did not clean. They dropped their clothes on the floor and my mother picked them up. If my brother mowed the lawn he was paid for it. I was required to help my mother with the kitchen. I was not paid for it. My mother was angry all the time. So was I. But we never once discussed it. She didn't like her role but felt she was born to it.
I rebelled -- whoever said that rebellion is a big factor was right. I never cleaned my house. I washed my clothes and a huge pile of dishes every week. I hired cleaning ladies as soon as I could afford to.
I have been married twice and both times, I made both spouses agree to help with the housework. Guess what, they didn't. And I went into panic mode if my parents were coming to visit or if we were entertaining which we rarely did. Sometimes, when my parents were coming I took a day off work to clean before they arrived.
So much garbage from my past. And I am still struggling with it. As long as I worked full time, I blamed it on my job. When I retired, I realized I didn't want to spend my life cleaning my house. My husband could care less where he lives and what his house looks like except as it affects me.
All these years I carried enormous shame over the condition of my house. When I retired, I decided I had to get over it or clean it.
I am progressing, but I am not really there. I am taking years of accumulation to Goodwill every now and again. I am selling stuff on ebay or in want ads.
After years of nagging my husband to get rid of his clutter, I decided it was time to set the example. Sure enough as I disposed of things, he got with it to. Mind you we have a long way to go, but we have made progress. I had a friend come and decorate my house. She piled things in boxes and labeled them. Since she wasn't a professional decorator but had good taste, her charges were modest and I paid them. We can now put both cars in the garage. I am satisfied with small improvements. I don't want to spend my life angry the way my mother did. I am coming to enjoy my home for the first time in my life. Partly because I let go of the guilt and anxiety. I will tell more later, but this is a huge issue for women. I can't speak for men, but I think women at least make it a huge issue for them as well.
Generally speaking, I recommend separating your morals from your cleanliness. Cleanliness, at least in my life, is far less important than Godliness.
This is a very interesting thread. I am not really good at the organization yet, but I'm getting there. I think one of the best things I did was print off some labels that I put on the bins I store stuff in. I do lots of crafts and it always seemed like I couldn't find anything. Now it's much easier to find something and put things away because it's all labeled. I would love Clean Sweep to help me but I wouldn't let the cameras in my house.
I bought some bins so I can go through my spare bedroom and put trash in one bin, yard sale in another. Haven't even gotten started with that yet.
I can't remember if I shared this here. I used to work with a woman who had a very different way of dealing with her family. Soon after she was married her husband asked her where his clean underwear was. She said he didn't have any. Whatever he left on the floor she threw away - socks, underwear, jeans, shirts. Same thing in the kitchen. After dinner she would clean up. If he made a snack and left the dishes on the counter or in the sink - she threw them away. Her sons learned to put things away also. She never backed down either - the item always went in the trash. I always thought this was funny.
psychology of the problem: I think clutter tends to accumulate around life transitions. I remember my college apartment. Everything there was for work and study. Nothing else. Very spare.
Now I am in a 100 year old two story house with n many rooms, n many outbuildings. Me, 2 dogs, 2 rabbits. Suddently I am retired, after years in court trying to save a job that could not be saved. Here is all my stuff. I am living in the middle of a construction site. I had planned to restore this place. How am I supposed to know what's relevant and what's not? Needless to say sorting through the clutter, is going to depend on finding out what kind of life is coming next. Am I a carpenter, a woodworker, a nursery operator? Only time will tell.
Ive heard many stories of how people's lives became cluttered, when they had children, or when they got a divorce. I think most people are not prepared for major life changes, and there is going to be a period when the old life and the new life are mixed up together. It is just something that has to be managed and sorted out. It may be a period of psychological stress. Does not mean you are a nut case.
I have one bedroom that has six beds in it. They are 19th century iron beds that I had some idea of restoring. Im not ready to decide which of those beds I will keep. But surely I don't need six beds--well actually there are some more that aren't in that room. (!)
I, too, have a pattern of saving things for a life that I am probably not going to live e.g. a fancy sewing machine and lots of fabric to sew. Lots of yarn for weaving. I am getting smarter, I sold the loom for 3 times what I paid for it. Not sure what to do with the yarn.
I own a 120 acre farm that I thought I would retire to, but my husband has made clear he is not going to retire any time soon. I retired 2 years ago. Talk about things I don't need, but am attached to!
Well, I am very familiar with house mortification. Now only my dear constant companion comes in, no one else. However, I recently had an old friend do a little plumbing. He says his sister has issues too. It was mortifying when the cable men came. My yard is full of last year's winter sowing, pots, plastic, etc. My foyer is my "garden shed." I hoard a fair amount of food, buy at the cheap thrift store constantly, collect plastic grocery bags, and my computer-seed trading room is overflowing with seeds, drills, other tools, etc. I lack energy; I have three closets with clothes in them. Right now I am looking at one with seldom or never worn clothes, but when I look at them, I think, "Oh no, those are too NICE to give away." I have so many clothes that I consider "NICE:" I have very low standards in that area.
I don't really see an end in sight. I guess I should go wash my kitchen floor now, maybe I will feel a little better. I did get most of the small appliances off my kitchen floor and put them downstairs. I only have one or two more to carry down. I don't need three hundred grocery bags for kitty litter pans and the kitchen garbage can. Surely I can let go of them!
Yes, you can let go of them, but it is important to first think about why you are having trouble letting go of them. I can only guess. Maybe someone you grew up with saved bags because there weren't many available in those days?
Congratulate yourself on the moving of the appliances. Bask in the esteem you give yourself.
In the end, it is your house and you don't have to be ashamed of how you choose to live. If it starts to bother you for yourself, then it is time to start changing the way you live. Like by moving appliances.
As far as I am concerned the first thing we need to get rid of is the shame!
"As far as I am concerned the first thing we need to get rid of is the shame! "
That's a good point. Right now I am embarrassed by my dirty floor. We are having melting snow so the dogs keep trudging in with muddy paws and if I mop it it's just going to look like that tomorrow - but still, I don't want anyone else to see it!
On the other hand I have an friend that really has a dirty house. The mess really doesn't bother me but I have a hard time going over to her house because of the smell (which is my problem, not hers.) But I never eat anything that she makes because her kitchen is so dirty. (I have to say that I was in food service and am very concious of food borne illnesses, and cleanliness when it comes to food prep etc. although not to the point of fanaticism on the issue). I once tried to help her clean but when I came across a dirty diaper that was left in the mess for weeks I have to say I was a little nauseous (and never helped her clean again).
Other than that other people's messes don't really bother me, after all we are actually living in our homes not in a magazine picture!
Absolutely correct. I would also be disgusted by your friend's house and you are right that it is her problem, not yours. I would use third-world country travel rules there -- don't eat anything that isn't piping hot. Wipe eating utensils with an alcohol wipe before using. Or, as you are doing, just don't eat there. I was never in food service, but I wouldn't eat there without precautions either.
The important thing for all of us is that we decide for ourselves how neat and organized we want to be, rather than obeying some rule made up by God-knows-who. If we set our own standards, we are more likely to attain them. If we succumb to the idea that all homes must be pages out of Martha Stewart, we will fail because they are someone else's standards.
I am not a great housekeeper and would like to improve, but I do a better job when I stick to my own standards. And my standards do not allow for dirty diapers to be left out for days.
I did clean the kitchen floor; now I don't want to put the mess back on it. Reading this thread over and over has helped me so much. I think I can make progress. I went to bed last night at almost 1:00 am excited that getting things done is really possible!
I have lived in this house since 1972, with my husband until 1976.
Living alone, being bi-polar, and not having an innate sense of organization have been working against me for years. Also, I am attached to books. I don't know why I keep them because I never read them again. I have three or four shelves of cookbooks. I only use a few on a regular basis, AND there are such great websites like Recipesource.com. These are far better than any cookbook because there is never just one recipe for a dish. I made bread pudding last week and had over a hundred recipes to choose from. So some of the problem is not making the transition to the cleaner, leaner life the computer can bring. After all, you all are here, the fly lady is here, all kinds of cleaning forums are here.
Wow, this thread is no doubt going to help many, serving as a sort of
therapy if nothing else. Get it out, get it off your chest.
I'm not really the oddball out here, but I love to clean. The problem is that
I am overwhelmed with ideas. Oh, wait, don't put that away, I'm going to paint
the ceiling. No, wait, I am going to make something with that. Hold on, we
have to leave that out because I want to (fill in the blank).
Just this morning I was making my bed and cleaning my room when I noticed
a pile of newspapers with a can of paint, a tray and brushes, left out for when I paint
my room. I thought to myself "You aren't going to paint squat." And with that,
I carried it to the storage room and put it in the Tupperware box labeled "PAINT
AND SUPPLIES".
That's the key to my sanity right there. Having a place where it belongs, and
putting it there. One thing at a time, one day at a time.
Another thing I have issues with is clutter. But we all do, and we all have
different ways of dealing with it. My way is to purchase storage, and
in fact, it sometimes feels as though it is an addiction. Just yesterday hubby
bought me two 4-stack file cabinets. I bounced out of bed this morning excited
at the thought of filing all that paper. Sure enough, I'll be filing crap I should
be throwing away.
So you see, while some of you may feel depressed because you don't
like to clean, the polar opposite doesn't feel much better. Don't get me wrong,
our house is not spic and span, but I kill myself trying and thinking it may be
one day.
I'm getting much better. Each year that goes by I find myself liking all this
junk I just 'had to have' and putting it into the Goodwill bag. After clearing out
eight large boxes and two huge bags of material and clothing (Oh, no wait,
I'm going to make rag rugs one day) I loaded them into the car and decided
that IF I make a rag rug one day, I'm sure I can find an 'all you stuff in a bag
for a dollar' sale. In the meantime, off they go.
Don't even go there on the food hoarding issues. LOL. We didn't exactly starve
as kids, but I'm a big time hoarder and stocker. Remember in the movie Driving
Miss Daisy, where she is upset because she had x number of cans of salmon?
That's me. We should have at all times x cans of beans, x cans of corn, x cans
of this and that. Well prepared is good, but it's a bit ridiculous sometimes when a
missing can of green chilies sends me into a panic. Must go to the store, must
fill that void!
House mortification. A concise phrase for a complex process. Why is it that we don't insist on keeping our spaces to our own personal standards. What do I want to do here.? What do I need in order to do it.
A surgeon's tools are lined up on a tray in the o.r. No dirty diapers left from last week there. I hope!
Why is it we do not raise the standards of what is allowed for ourselves? A clean place to live. Find what we need to do what we want. knit. chrochet. start seeds. I like to make gemstone beads. edit the rest. Why don't we do that? I think we have lost a little part of our selves, or perhaps never had it. Afterall, our environment reflects who we are. You are looking in a mirror, when you go into one of your rooms that you have not claimed as your own. Chaos! Not what I deserve.
Wuvie: You are a hoot! Today I am working on the back part of my hallway. I cannot face the whole thing at once! You would not believe the piled up wire shelves and plastic boxes that were supposed to get me organized. What I learned from you. I need BIG plastic boxes, not little ones. And they needed to be LABELED. So yesterday I bought some bright colored self stick foam sheets from the craft department, and some paint pens for labeling my boxes. Im learning. Im learning. And Wuvie, you are one of my teachers.
Once I figure out what I have, then I will know what to get rid of. I know I do not need six + Victorian iron beds. Why is this so much harder to decide, than day to day decisions managing a crew of 6 to 9 people which I had no trouble with at all?
Oh, Gloria! That is wonderful! I think if we all keep posting on this thread
we can all learn from one another indeed!
I'll toss out a tip that helps me quite often. Try not to laugh too hard,
I can be a strange bird. LOL
I set the timer on the microwave (or other timer) and clean nothing but
that room for thirty minutes straight. I'm not allowed to leave the room
walking up and down the hall putting things where they should be. Instead,
I keep a tub in the room and when I find something that belongs in another
room, I put it in the tub. This saves SO much walking and wasted time.
Then I take a break, visit Dave's Garden or something and get back to
work in another room, taking the same tub with me for lost and found items
which belong in another room.
Another day when I'm feeling energetic, I set the timer for ten minutes and
pretend that everyone I know is going to be at my house when the timer
goes off. Stand at the front door entrance and set your timer. Now look
around the room. If you were a guest, what is the first thing you would notice
that is out of place?
One of my other habits is to walk into a room with my eyes shut. Then open
my eyes and when I spot the first thing out of place, I take care of it.
I suppose one of my worst, though somehow productive habits is to multi-task. When
you bend down to pick up a sock, is there anything else nearby? My sons
are the worst ones about this. They pick up a shirt to take to the laundry room,
but while they were down there picking up the shirt, there was a wad of paper
right next to it. Since the trash can is right next to the laundry room, I fail to
understand why they would not kill two birds with one stone.
Of course, that sort of habit leads to strange things, such as having so many
things going on at once that I forget the washer is filling up. Yeah, I was going
to make the bed while the washer filled up, but when I started cleaning the
windows I noticed the cobwebs but when I went to get the duster I noticed the
soup cans were crooked and when I straightened up the soup I noticed the
pantry really needed to be mopped. So I walk back to get the bleach and notice
I've washed a load of water.
Last night I was laughing so hard at those tree-nuts over on the tree & shrub forum, my dogs were looking at me like I was nuts. DG can be a much funnier comedy than TV sometimes.
I think you are a much more advanced cleaner than I am. FlyLady should have a special degree for you!I don't set the timer, but I do schedule parts of the house that need to get organized, because they need service/repair people to get in there. It is a sad day when you have so much junk you can't get to the water heater!
I wonder what the diagnosis is for someone who has more than 10 vacuum cleaners? And the one I actually use, is the shop-vac.
What good therapy for many of us! I hate to clean and my kids hate to clean - perhaps following my example. My oldest daughter works from home and her useless, never-employed H and 16 yr old son don't do a thing to help her out but I figure, that's her problem, not mine. No one goes to her house because of the deplorable state of affairs there. Again HER problem but no problem because she doesn't care and is happy just to have a house. Personally, there are so many things to do or not do I don't obsess over anything. My DDH is the worrier in the family so that job is taken, thank goodness. My house is not cleverly decorated but it is neat on the surface and everything has a place. Fortunately there are people who love to clean and sometimes they are for hire and sometimes for a small fee. I have a 22 yr old granddaughter who loves to clean and she comes here of her own accord and cleans for nothing except a free lunch. Love her! Let those who love to clean have at it and don't be drawn into the myth of cleanliness is next to Godliness. Ain't so. Whoever thought that one up was probably a man. Most men who don't like a messy or unclean house never touch it themselves, do they? Of course not! They are happy to have a couple of meals a day and don't mind take out and/or leftovers. I say "who are you trying to please?" also, "why?"
I would be happy just to find what I have. As someone said above in this thread. "I was so happy to see my winter coat." I think its even colder in Pennsylvannia than Alabama. There is a place somewhere in psychological wellness, where you know approximately where your stuff is, and you have what you need, and not what you don't. That place is not being obsessive. But it is comfortable and serene.
Gloria,
I agree completely. To be able to find your winter coat and other things when you need them is a personal goal, not social pressure. It might even be a bit of an emergency if the weather is cold. Hanging up and sorting your clothes is personally rewarding. Donating stuff you don't need to charity is freeing.
Even spit shining the whole house is laudable if it doesn't make you miserable. I think that's how you tell if a goal is yours or someone else's. Does it feel liberating to do it.
Many of us are overwhelmed by the expectations of our current society. Many of us hold down full time jobs, are expected to maintain Martha Stewart-type houses and be wonderful loving wives and mothers. It is important the we each sort through all these over whelming demands and claim the ones most important to us and us alone. Many of us have spouses and children who cannot be convinced to help. They may feel as overwhelmed as we do.
For many years, I would look at my house and feel so overwhelmed I couldn't even begin to clean it. Now in my retirement, I am beginning to clear it out, but my house is still a mess by most standards. And we can't find all of our stuff, but we do know where our coats are. It is the pressure to be perfect by social standards that is killing us.
I don't know how we get so disassociated from our personal selves. Honestly, it was years after ending a bad controlling relationship, that I found my self whistling the opera Carmen. To my own surprise, I knew it all they way through. My dogs were surprised, too. My own voice is not too bad either, although I am a saprano and I would never sing in front of anybody. I once sung in a chorus, and one day all of those songs came out. Handel. All of it. Now that I am alone, I often am amazed by what I know, and what I can do. Not bored. Not lonely. But Im still looking for my stuff!
I set a timer too and have a really bad room. I set the timer for 5 minutes because I hate being in there.
I also had the "I'm going to do that someday" syndrome with all this sewing I wanted to do. Finally I realized, if I lived a hundred more years, I could never use that much cloth and got rid of all but a small box.
Be careful with all those containers, though, they can be just another clutter problem, especially if you never use them!
Yes, Gloria, getting disassociated from our true selves causes us true misery. Love the story of your singing. What a harmless way to express oneself. Amazing it takes so long to realize it.
I am currently struggling with the desire to have chickens. I live in a neighborhood where people are struggling with the fact that I have an old truck, insured and registered, parked in front of my vacant lot. I gather they don't think it is appropriately upscale, but the police department told me there was no problem with it's being parked there.
When I thinned the dense forest on that lot, I got calls about when was I going to get rid of the piles of brush from the thinning. This kind of pressure makes me a nervous wreck, but thinning the lot was actually a fire prevention action recommended by the city. The branches did get hauled off when I could get around to it.
When I mentioned getting chickens ( just 2 or 3, no rooster) at a neighborhood Christmas party, my next door neighbor said "Oh no! They're so dirty!". It isn't like I would have them on her property! I checked the city regulations. I can have chicken as long as they don't become a nuisance or a health hazard. Wonder what my neighbor thinks a nuisance is?
I will probably do it, but It has been really tough for me to deal with the neighbors over the years. One, who has luckily moved away, complained about my dogs barking at night. They sleep inside at night and don't bark, but if I don't get home until 11:00 they might.
Anyhow, I think the way we get dissociated from our true selves is through the domineering of people around us. Family, neighbors, etc. feel righteous about their personal opinions and somehow some of us buy into their opinions -- especially if we are around them a lot.
I refuse to let my neigborhood's insistance on tidiness run my life. But getting there has been tough.
On plastic boxes. I have some which hold my seeds. That is good. Better than the old cardboard boxes I used to keep them in. Then I got some plastic boxes for papers and I began filling them up and I threw away and shredded lots of them. But I have yet to finish the job. The plastic boxes are still sitting on the floor in the dining room. I just can't talk myself into it.
With the boxes sitting there, though, I do seem to be doing a better job of throwing away or shredding junk mail and recycling catalogs soon after they come in. It's just the backlog I am struggling with. My husband, of course, could care less about the appearance and wouldn't think of going through old stuff himself, but boy is there a ruckus when he can't find some paper he wants.
I have learned to say, "Gee, I wonder what you did with it?" instead of scurrying around in fear until I find it or have to cook dinner. My husband is a sweet guy. Why was I so afraid of him? Has to do with other less-nice males in my life.
I'm glad you checked the regulations of your city, however if your neighbors complain a lot, I guess it could be seen as a nuisance. Would if you put up a fence and never told anyone that you have chickens. If others find out and start complaining then you can say "I've had them for a year and you've never complained about them before." Another thing you can do is see if anyone wlse in your area has livestock and see what kind of problems they have had.
I have a hard time with neighbors that want to control everyone else. We had one woman who would write notes saying, this and that was not allowed (she was wrong). Finally a group in our neighborhood went to her and told her to stop. In this case I have great neighbors. Someone is leaving notes on my neighbor's door about her dog whining. I wonder when people are going to complain because their neighbors look to old and not upscale enough to live in their neighborhood. LOL
Right now my backyard is driving me crazy. I want to work in it, repair the places the dogs are digging up, pick up the dog doo and clean it up but there is too much snow!
Mobi,
Clean it up when the snow melts! Mine is a mess too, but before long I will take care of it.
Luckily for me, I have a walled yard. I will put the chickens there, most of the time. I might use a little chicken tractor out back at times, but mostly the neighbors won't see them. The county told me, it has to be a real nuisance for them to do anything about it. I did have the same neighbor turn me in to the country for not mowing a strip of land that it turned out belonged to the country. I got a "ticket" for not mowing my weeds. When I pointed out that they weren't my weeds, they eventually succumbed and mowed them and have been doing so ever since. I know this neighbor would turn me in if she had the slightest excuse. They objected when I parked my truck in front of their side yard for just a few days. Also permissible by county law, but I politely moved it in the interest of neighborhood good will. It was pretty easy, but I am tired of their sense of entitlement. Also, they like to get veggies from my garden and would like to share my vacant lot with me. No way. My garden is where I go for peace. Let them buy their own vacant lot.
You know some apartment complexes have decided not to allow children. Will older people be next?
All of my other neighbors are great at the moment. Hope it stays that way.
But it is no wonder we give in to the values of others. They can be pretty insistant.
pajaritomt: "struggling with the desire to have chickens." I have a neighbor problem also. But, then I learned that she is taking antipsychotic medication so I try to be more lenient. In this case they have the chickens. they also have goats. And they have rabbits. to tell the truth they really all are beautiful animals. But we live at the end of town and behind us is a 50 acre field. Periodically, feral dogs from town form a pack, and you can imagine how interested they are in those goats. On one occasion my dog was poisoned and nearly died from baits the neighbor put out to poison those wild dogs. Recently, the feral dogs killed a number of the goats.
Then, one day the wind blew my door open, and my little male dog escaped. Now this is a dog who spends his days sitting near my rabbit cage. Roscoe and Henry are good friends. Dog and rabbit. He is not mean, not even mischeivous. But, I suppose like all little boys, he loves to get loose and go over the horizon and see whats what. On another occasion, he got loose and went next door and sniffed those goats. So this time, he decided to go and visit those goats. You would not believe the holy hell that caused. the {lady} next door lit into me, and I could not believe that I was shaking and took several days just to recover from her yelling and screaming at me.
The moral of this story is rarely does a bad neighbor get any better.
Are you sure you would not like to buy another lot somewhere else where you can have chickens?
You are right about buying another lot. And you are right that bad neighbors rarely get better. I would love to move to a more rural area but DH totally objects. His mother lives 1/2 mile away and would have a cow if we moved. And to be honest, I love our house. It is lovely -- even with all my junk and perfectly designed for our life style. I might be able to rent a lot at the county horse stables -- they might consider chickens live stock, but then I would miss the fun of their running around the yard.
I used to have a garden out there at the community garden, but it is much more fun to do my hobbies at home. I think I will brave the neat freak neighbor. She is lovely except that status is very important to her. Her husband is a dentist and she is an immigrant from a country where status is very important. Or maybe she is first generation American. Her parents often visit -- like about half the year and I suspect they are the real sources of the complaints. I saw her father out directing the county mower who came to cut the weeds. He is probably driving them nuts too. He has a strong sense of his own superiority. I think his daughter is just obeying his commands.
I don't think my neighbor is on anti-psychotics or that she would be upset if my dog got in her yard. Anyhow, my dogs stay inside the walls except when they are on leash or in my car. And they actually don't bark all that much. Chickens are quiet without a rooster.
I believe house keeping and yard keeping are the same issues though. So many people seem to think they know how other people should live. I get really upset, too, when they complain, but I am getting better. I understand completely how upset you were after your neighbor got after you. Living with psychotics and their poisons is tough!
This is an enlightening thread! Thanks to all of you for sharing your stories and emotions so freely. Your words have helped me think through my own situation. I'm an appearence-oriented, relatively neat-on-the-surface kind of person. But UNDERNEATH: I'm a person who tends to stuff all her clutter and might-need-it-someday things, and clothing that doesn't fit anymore and hobby supplies that aren't so interesting nowadays, plus the predictable results of my over-buying, crammed into drawers and closets and boxes and attics and ANYWHERE where I don't have to deal with them! Unfortunately, NOT all in nice labelled boxes, either! This results in fire-trap attics and basements, I can tell you! And others could use some of this stuff I hoard so selfishly.
Does this really matter? I think one definition of a problem is whether you THINK it is a problem. I'm not happy with all that stuff that lurking in the background and weighing me down psychologically, but that is soooo hard to part with. So what I've learned from this thread is what I call the "Timer-Solution." I'm going to set my timer and go into my guest-room that has become a repository for clothes I don't wear, and I'm going to give myself just 15 minutes to pull out some perfectly-nice but too-small items of clothing and PUT THEM IN BOXES for Goodwill. I'm going to load them into my car. Maybe I'll drive them to the Donation Station right away. But I know I'll only have 15 minutes of "pain" at one time. For a somewhat lazy person who would rather be reading--or gardening--or playing on my computer, the 15-minute rule is do-able. And who knows: I might do it again. And this might lead to tackling other areas, like those boxes of ribbons and wrapping paper, more than I will ever need. . . or those kitchen utinsels that I never use. . . all those cookie-cutters. . .
But only for 15 minutes at a time. I can handle that. Thanks, you all.
Sometimes you just have to let the neighbors have it right back.
At my last house, I lived next to 2 lovely people who were alcoholics & yet compulsively neat. Dan was a judge & Anita was very proudly a judge's wife. Everything she did or thought was better than what you did & thought. But we got along really well, partly because they put up with my creative messes & I put up with her overbearing ways.
I had illegal bees & they knew it. One morning Anita left a nasty message on my answering machine because she said so many bees had drowned in their hot tub (or "spa" as she called it) that it had messed the filters up. She threatened to call the village.
I wrote her a nasty letter back & left it on the back porch with the curtains that she had asked me to clean & hem after her cat pooped on them, told her to fix her own dang curtains AND find someone else to dogsit during the day from now on.
We didn't speak for a couple of weeks & then I heard them out in the "spa" one evening & wandered over with a couple of beers & said, "You guys still mad?" and of course they were happy to put it all behind us.
Yes,
CapeCodGardener, I like the timer idea as well. I haven't been using a timer but the cleaning out I do is done in small spurts, not all day cleanup sessions. I may have to actually try the timer myself.
Summerkid,
I agree with you about the neighbors. I had to do that once with a high level manager who wrote me a nastygram when I parked my truck across the street from where his driveway was. He said if I left it there he might be in a hurry some day and hit it. I wrote back and said that my truck was old and made of heavy metal and that I bet it would damage his BMW a lot more than my old truck if he hit it ( they have 3 BMWs) and that it was illegal to hit parked cars, but not to park where I was parked. They too have moved away.
I have to wonder what kind of a place makes bees illegal! Such helpful little insects! No wonder we have ecological problems!
Sometimes neighbors need a reminder that it's a 2-way street, that we all put up with SOMETHING someone else does. And it was high time that Anita learned to step a little more carefully around me.
I have flylady's timer & it's a life-saver. It's just not the same saying you'll declutter for 15 minutes. I WANT THE TIMER to go off. Yesterday, the timer was lost & I tore the house apart looking for it. Probably achieved just as much during the search as during my official 15 minutes!
Mobi, are you getting treatment for your depression? It's tough to get on top of anything if you're in the grip of a serious illness.
have found the perfect solution for my back yard. I have 13 large oak trees there, and I do not grow grass. The first year we moved in, I planted flowers at the back of the lot, but then it became too weedy and too shady.
A couple of years ago, a county person came by and asked why my yard was wild; he said he had heard that it was once beautiful flowers. The only person who was still in the neighborhood who could remember that was the one who reported me. I explained that it was over thirty years ago, and it had been wild ever since. He was satisfied with that. I did hire someone to take out weedy bushes. I just let the oak leaves carpet the yard every fall. When I moved in, I made a silent promise to the trees never to cut them. I feel very good that they are still there, probably close to 75 years old now.
Your solution does sound perfect. Nothing is prettier than large healthy trees. That is pretty much the way I deal with my vacant lot. It has tall ponderosa pines which mostly block the view of the neighbors houses. Their needles keep weeds down. Around the edges there is sun. I plant vegetables and a few flowers there. The neighborhood children really enjoy the veggies. One little girl's mother told me that she had asked what one veggie was and the mother had told her it was an onion. She had never seen an onion grow. Another mother told me her children loved watching the pumpkins grow. I do have 3 compost piles back there, but no one, even the county person, has said a word about them, thank goodness.
Nature, in many cases, offers the easiest and most beautiful solution.
Where I do plant flowers and veggies, I only plant things I enjoy tending.
Indoors is a different story. Mother nature does not do dishes.
LOL...I am still a bit sick and as such, took a very rare, no...make
that extremely rare nap. I've returned to find this thread full of more
humor and people with good attitudes. Love it!
As mentioned above, someone said something along the lines of
what is acceptable to us. I am the problem in our house. No one
else has issues with the house and my husband is from a home that
somehow escaped the law of normality. We won't go there, but trust
me, if he's learned anything by example I've done a world of good.
Part of my problem stemmed from a father with 'by golly this house should
be clean enough to eat off the floor' syndrome. He was from a home where
his mother did nothing but clean and tidy the house 24 hours a day, serve
her man and had no life of her own. When I got into trouble for having a messy
room I would slam the door and throw my father the finger, then look at my
room and want to cry, yet it would take all of half an hour to clean and when
it was clean it felt so good. So what was all the big deal in cleaning it? I'll
never know.
Then as I became older and married, when I was angry I would clean. It
didn't take long to find a bad husband, and sure enough, I was cleaning all
the time to escape. Now I'm married to a husband who doesn't care, but
the house is twenty times the size of my first marriage with ten truckloads
more stuff to manage. Sigh.
When we first met, I blamed his ex wife. What a complete mess, I thought.
Then after I'd spent time with him, I realized he would tolerate anything.
So he's had to adjust from being married to a complete slacker to someone
with anal tendencies. Huh? What is this? A newspaper clipping, and it isn't
filed in the "Interesting articles" file folder in alphabetical order? (I'm trying
to laugh at myself.) One day I overheard my husband on the telephone telling
a friend that I was a serial organizer.
We're not even social people, so some days I do ask myself.
Who are you doing all this for? Why are you doing this? And what the heck is up with the
dental picks requiring their own personal little plastic box with a label? If the
dental picks are in the toothpaste drawer, will they become lost? Will no
one be able to identify them without a written label? Errrt. Scratch that. Typed
label. Neatly typed label.
Phew. Some days I like to think I'm getting better. Other days I think I'm killing
myself and can only imagine what they will say at my funeral. WAIT, WAIT, she
would never put the flowers on the left corner of that table! It's daffodils, house plants
and THEN roses in alphabetical order.
And label them in case someone wants to know what they are.
Wow! Wovie. Your husband is a lucky guy. And all that organization seems to make you happy. You are a lucky person.
I once had a cleaning lady who was really into organizing and she wanted to organize the top shelf of my pantry where I keep dry beans, barley, etc. She asked me how I wanted her to organize it. I told her that I hadn't a clue and that organization wasn't my bag. I just wanted her to clean.
I think she was miffed.
Oh, gosh, no, pajar, that's the reason I'm here. While some of you
are trying to deal with cleaning, I'm trying to deal with over doing it.
I think it is the same type of problem we all share, but how we deal
with it varies. I would consider my way of resolving it to be a bigger
problem at times.
I cause myself more stress than necessary. I run back and forth
through the house like a chicken with my head cut off. And to be honest
with you, I'm not so sure I burn more energy than necessary doing half
the work. I can work my butt off all day long and yet you might not see
the change.
Please don't take my posts as bragging that I'm Miss Super Clean. I'm
more Miss Anal Overload who should take more time to tend to the important
things in life.
Wuvie: Do you know anyone who has struck a happy medium -- some one who is not obsessed with cleaning, but also manages to keep their spaces clean, functional, and pleasant to be in? I remember reading the old books on "housekeeping". Where woman's lot was to make a home, where her family would be comfortable, and thrive. A nuturing place, where a f ew sparse possessions would be treasured and cared for???
Very good point Wuvie. We all have our issues. Housework issues are very common among women and very uncommon among men. It shows our training. Men have issues as well, but that's a different topic. Anyone who has lived with a man/men knows that.
I think the point is to figure out where on the continuum of cleanliness/organization we are happiest, then get there however we can. I think age helps. The older I get the less I feel I have to be perfect. If I haven't become perfect by now, I probably won't and maybe that is as nature intended.
You are great for this thread because you show that what most of us would call perfection isn't perfect either. You help us understand that it isn't the state of your house that matters, but knowing what you really want. That may be the hardest task of all, but is certainly the most satisfying.
CapeCodGardenrer
"But I know I'll only have 15 minutes of "pain"". I've heard for some people it actually is a painful experience to get rid of things. That for a person who has a problem hoarding they have some attachment to almost everything and think a lot more about "things" and it's a very unpleasant experience to go through. It's called compulsive hoarding.
Summerkid, I do go to a psychiatrist but none of the meds work for me anymore and it gets pretty bad sometimes.
For me, my home reflects the state of my mind. In my deepest depressions, it is the worst. The plants have all died, because I haven't watered them. The floors are dirty and need cleaning, the laundry is piled up, trash is overflowing. But I may have the counters cleaned because there is something that wants to be healthy. My DH now does all the laundry and cleans the floors. We can motivate each other in a good way and I'll ask him to help me with a room and we have a good time doing it.
Mobi,
What a good DH you have! I, too, have suffered from depression but luckily the medications worked very well for me.
Do sunlight and exercise help you at all? They do me.
Aren't there also certain foods that stimulate endorphins and act as antidepressants? Spring is coming, Mobi! Please get better! (I know it does not work that way, but I am hoping anyway).
Ahhhhh, the lovely depression...what is it that pulls us women into it's snare? I have major depression, my mom was manic-depressive (although back then they didn't call it that...I spent my childhood taking care of my younger brother 'cause Mom was in & out of the hospital including one stint of a year & a half in an institution in MN with electro shock treatment) what does these examples tell you or teach you???? My brother & I were not allowed to leave our rooms in the morning until the bed was made perfectly & everything had been dusted...everything perfectly in order...we woke up at 6am no matter the day or Daddy came in to pull at our toes 'til we were awake so never any sleeping in...how many friends do you think wanted to sleep over at our house? at 6am my entire youth I woke up to the sound of the vacum...mom also would clean for 24hrs at a time...my girlfriends & I still laugh about Mom making us clean under the porcelin sink in the bathroom...I mean up under the actual sink...she always said "what if a burglar was in the house, fell down & hit his head? what would he think when he woke up on the floor looking up under a dirty sink...my brother & I were not allowed to sit on the furniture in the living room or the dining room...we could sit at the kitchen coffee bar or in the family room...that was it...when you left the bathtub (no shower) you had to scrub it with ajax and rinse it clean for the next person...for many, many years I carried this around letting it just about kill me...if someone was coming over (especially my parents) I would be beserk for hours into the night getting everything "perfect" and feeling unbelievably angry while doing it and almost rage like if anyone caused one thing to be out of order before the company came...and while the company was there I could not sit down & relax...constantly jumping up to straighten something or just apologizing for something I noticed wasn't perfect...my husband's friends told him they didn't like to come over 'cause I made them too nervous with my constant moving about...I couldn't relax & enjoy them...I did better when I hired housekeepers...two of them, believe it or not, for a 1600 sq ft home that neither my husband or I spent any time in...I was managing a call center & working 15,16 hours a day and my husband longhauled for Consolidated Freightways so he was gone for weeks at a time...I have had years & years of therapy so am a bit better but still feel that old anxiety if someone who's never been here before is coming...and almost unbearably anxious if someone just shows up...I'm almost 58yrs old so believe me I "should" have gotten this bedevilment under control by now...I'm glad I found this thread...good to see other nuts like me out there...the one thing that gives me rest is fussing with my plants...my sister-in-law would call and ask what I was doing & I say "playing with my plants" & she'd laugh saying "your house must need cleaning"...I'm also the kind that puts everything off until it becomes a panic situation...thanks for letting me vent...Deb
Rather than self diagnosing and self medicating it is easier and safer to ask a professional for help when dealing w/ depression. I know having been there and suffering periodically from depression. I have my medication that I have to take a tiny dose of each day and if I have something traumatic (for me) I increase it temporarily until the danger is past and resume my maintenance dosage. All of this means knowing your own reactions and your own body and I would say that a professional would be the one to talk to and have him/her help you to identify what your root problem really is and prescribe accordingly and adjust as time goes by. It's worth the time and cost because you will only flounder about (maybe for years) and never really know what the problem(s) is (are). Going w/foods that are supposed to be good for what ails you is too iffy. Try to get help NOW so that your mental health is rapidly improved. Good Luck!
Deb: I really enjoyed your story. Not that anyone should have to grow up this way. I also grew up in a crazy family. My mom was too sick to clean the house. I had five wild brothers, who would go hunting, then butcher their kill on the kitchen table and cook the poor animals on the stove. (That may be why today I am a vegetarian.) You know I always resented not having a normal childhood. Then as I made my way through the world, I learned that there are precious few who have had a childhood that nurtured them more than damaged them.
When people ask me about my family and how I grew up, I sometimes say I had a very bad childhood, so Im taken' it NOW -- Im 67 years old. Well, better late than never.
Too many people think they had a terrible childhood but I think it is all relative. Few of us were raised in a sweet June Cleaver type household. My DH had an abnormally wonderful childhood w/ perfect support from his parents and he has fond memories of all that. I didn't. So be it. I say get on w/your life, get professional help if you need it and do not try to rectify the past. The past is just that: the past. None of us can change it. There is only the now and the future. To dwell on the past is self destructive and will only slow you down. I'm 75 now and in charge of my life as it is today and for the future. My time is too important to me to dwell on the past and I want to live in the now and future. Take heart!
Ann, thanks for that insight...one of my pastors used to say that the "Bible doesn't say it came to stay, the Bible says it came to pass" so yes, all of the past passes but I feel those learned behaviors still color alot of how we deal with things now...and you know what, Gloria...second childhoods are the most enjoyed...find one!!!!!!!!!!!! Deb
Yes I would have to agree, that to say the past is past, now is now is a little like sticking one's head in the sand like an ostrich. Of course you don't want to dwell on the past, you can't undo what was done.
I think that is called "victim behavior". But as individuals, and as a nation we are what our history has made us. Much of the field of psychology is devoted to telling us, you have got to come to terms with your own history. If you don't recognize it, it will steer you off in the ditch. Its not a matter of dwelling in the past, but of recognizing who you are now,as a result of your personal history, so that you can deal effectively with the life that is before you.
Most of the people here have said, they have trouble with cleaning and organizing issues because of their situation at their childhood home. It is the same thing with being over weight. You have to come to terms with those monsters, before you can be free to make effective and intelligent choices.
I have a wonderful book by Kathryn L. Robyn called "Spiritual Housecleaning, Healing the space within by beautifying the space around you"...I found answers there...Deb
One of the best things to do for now is finding out what nourishes you. I, too, use playing with my flowers to relax and soothe me. I find it very helpful and who can object to a beautiful garden? If gardening helps, then you should do more of it. I often find when I am working in my garden I come to realizations or solutions that I had never thought of before. Over the years I have become more sane because I listen to myself more and stand up for the things I want to do -- like gardening and raising chickens and hanging out with my friends. I am 62, and no longer have access to my parents or my brother and his have family, but I am rather peaceful.
Every now and then I get into one of those "apologizing for the lack of cleanliness or order in my house or car" modes, but recently a friend told me. Would you quit apologizing for your car? It was a big favor. She went with me on a week long trip to Mexico in it and now wants to go again. I guess I had nothing to apologize for.
I was once in a court hearing where a woman went up to sit down as a witness and sat in the wrong chair. When she realized what she had done the witness apologized. The judge, also a woman, told her to quit apologizing. She said, "Women apologize too much." I thought that was terrific advice and it set the witness at greater ease to tell her story.
So, I say the same thing to myself and to all of you. Quit apologizing for who you are. Save your apologies for when you really hurt someone.
There must be something that would help, Mobi.
I'm on anti-D's and react very well to them, fortunately.
I can't stand the thought of you living like this forever.
Such a good thread. So many insights and compassion. I also appreciated Wuvie's sharing and humor. Her remarks reminded me of something that recently happened my mom (a good housekeeper, but not that perfectionistic.) Apparently, last week Mom had a houseguest--a woman who had been the CEO of the local hospital when my mom was chair of the board. The guest admires my mom a lot and feels close to her. After my mother served dinner, the woman asked "do you mind if I clean out your pantry cupboard?" Mom was non-plussed, but said it was fine. Not something she usually gets asked! When the guest had rearranged all the boxes and cans to her owm satisfaction--and my mother reported that she did a really good job--the guest asked if she could organize my mom's drawer where she keeps her flatware. I think the crystal cabinet was next.
The guest left the next morning. My mom reports that she doesn't act "crazy" in any other way, but isn't this sort of strange? I know, I know, what's her phone number?? ;-)
My Aunt came here to visit last year and pulled out all my towels, sheets, blankets from the linen closet, refolded everyone of them, then poured out my silverware and redid it, plus called me a "dumb nut" 'cause my toilet paper was on the wrong way...I love her so much...not sure if they'll ever find her body!!!!!! Deb
Calling you a "dumb nut" was out of line. Did you like her refolding all your linens? I am not sure how I would feel about someone who does such unrequested housework. Hope you hid her body well!
you want to know something funny? I have folded my towels her way ever since...it really is more attractive when you open the linen closet...but I refuse to worry what way the tissue goes on the roller...Deb
CapeCodGardener: Are you sure that visitor wasn't Martha Stewart. Sounds like something she might do! Deb. It has been suggested on these forums that a good way to camoflogue (sp?) a corpus delicti is to build a compost pile over it.
