| Author | Content |
dave
March 12, 2007 1:50 PM Post #3272998
| There are a total of 487 votes:
| The 15th day of March; Julius Caesar was told to beware the Ides of March
(269 votes, 55%) |  |
| The first day of the Roman New Year, marking the first day of spring on the Roman Calendar.
(32 votes, 6%) | |
| The 15th day of May, July, or October in the ancient Roman calendar.
(12 votes, 2%) | |
| The 13th day of the other months in the ancient Roman calendar.
(9 votes, 1%) | |
| All of the above.
(131 votes, 26%) | |
| None of the above.
(34 votes, 6%) | |
|
Previous Polls
And the answer is...all of the above! |
bigcityal
Menasha, WI (Zone 5a)
March 12, 2007 2:03 PM Post #3273033
| I certainly remember hearing that - I think before Caesar gets stabbed in the back, but can't recall what it means. |
nifty413
Garland, TX (Zone 8a)
March 12, 2007 2:16 PM Post #3273071
| The public school system worked, and I remembered 11th grade literature! :-)
edit: Now that I think about it, it was 9th grade. :-)
This message was edited Mar 12, 2007 9:45 AM |
Farmerdill
Augusta, GA (Zone 8a)
 March 12, 2007 2:44 PM Post #3273145
| Another trick question from Terry: The Ides were the 15th day of March, May, July and October, The 13th day in the other months. Both the Romulan and Julian calender were quite complex. |
nifty413
Garland, TX (Zone 8a)
March 12, 2007 2:47 PM Post #3273155
| Quoting:Both the Romulan and Julian calender were quite complex.
I think the Vulcan calendar is even more complex than the Romulan's. ;-) |
bbinnj
West Orange, NJ (Zone 6a)
March 12, 2007 2:48 PM Post #3273160
| Romulan! LOL! Roman calendar, Farmerdill. The correct answer is all of the above; the Ides fell on the 15 on some months, 13 on others, was the first day of spring on the Roman calendar (Rome is warm!), and was the day on which Julius Caesar was stabbed, as recounted by Shakespeare. |
bbinnj
West Orange, NJ (Zone 6a)
March 12, 2007 2:49 PM Post #3273163
| Oh yes, Nifty, very good point, I forgot entirely. |
Farmerdill
Augusta, GA (Zone 8a)
March 12, 2007 3:29 PM Post #3273300
| Actually, the first Roman calender was reputed to have been devised by Romulas ( Romulan) and revised by Julius (Julian). The main reason it is tricky, is that Answer One specifies the 15 th of March. Answer Two, throws in the New Year , Anwer Three, leaves out March and does not cover the other ides, Answer Four would be correct if combined with answer three but is incomplete in itself. Sorry folks I have been around multiple choice testing programs too many years. |
nifty413
Garland, TX (Zone 8a)
March 12, 2007 3:41 PM Post #3273345
| Sorry, Farmerdill, I've been around Star Trek for too many years. No disrespect intended! Good information there. :-) |
Jazzpunkin
Springfield, OH (Zone 5b)
March 12, 2007 3:51 PM Post #3273376
| Hey..it made me laugh Nifty |
Terry
Murfreesboro, TN (Zone 7a)
 March 12, 2007 3:51 PM Post #3273377
| Chuckle...I think I should turn over the garden quizzes to FarmerDill - I think he'd do a smashing job with them!!!! |
bivbiv
Central FL, FL (Zone 9b)
March 12, 2007 3:59 PM Post #3273396
| Well, your choices confused me. I thought it was "all of the above." However, if it's the 15th of May, July and Oct. and the 13th of the other months, then Mar. would be one of the "other months." And I knew Mar. 15 was definitely the ides, so I decided my memory was failing me; and I chose the wrong one. |
plantladyhou
Katy, TX (Zone 8b)
March 12, 2007 4:03 PM Post #3273408
| I KNEW that one!! All the above is the right answer but I really only knew that a couple of answers were correct so I took a leap of faith and landed softly. Those Romans were a wily bunch. You couldn't trust them. If they didn't like you they made you catnip for the lions. And since they ruled the world (as they knew it) who was going to complain? Like our present gov't if they want to change the time, they do. They wanted to change the calendar - they did. Not only beware the Ides of March et al but just "Beware".
Ann |
Emelle
Morrinsville ~Waikat
New Zealand
March 12, 2007 5:10 PM Post #3273592
| After plodding through all your replies I am now thoroughly confused ,whereas I wasn't before ! Mind you ,I didn't really know before anyway -something to do with Caesar being stabbed ..."et Tu Brutus "
Emelle. |
grampapa
Wheatfield, NY (Zone 6a)
March 12, 2007 5:27 PM Post #3273635
| Nifty LOL. at least I knew about Caesar |
claypa
West Pottsgrove, PA (Zone 6b)
March 12, 2007 5:38 PM Post #3273659
| Quoting:I've been around Star Trek for too many years.
Et tu, nifty?? |
LarissaH
Denton, TX (Zone 7b)
March 12, 2007 6:01 PM Post #3273734
| I didn't know about Caesar, I just guessed to get to the answer. :p |
lafko06
Brimfield, MA (Zone 5a)
March 12, 2007 7:05 PM Post #3273896
| Cool idea Terry, how about a 'special-guest-appearance-question' from FarmerDill some time! :)
|
Terry
Murfreesboro, TN (Zone 7a)
March 12, 2007 7:33 PM Post #3273974
| Anytime he (or anyone else) wants to dream up a question for us, the door is always open ;o) |
zest
Horsens
Denmark
March 12, 2007 7:33 PM Post #3273976
| Oh my goodness, I mostly get these questions wrong, but got it right this time.
And I just took the one that seem least unlikely for me LOL
|
Xeramtheum
Summerville, SC (Zone 8a)
March 12, 2007 8:52 PM Post #3274184
| I got it right too .. remembered my latin. The word ides comes from Latin, meaning "half division" (of a month).
X |
carrielamont
Euless, TX (Zone 8a)
March 12, 2007 9:30 PM Post #3274286
| Finally, an all of the above! It had to be right. It was, too, I mean before I knew. It sounded right. |
Farmerdill
Augusta, GA (Zone 8a)
March 12, 2007 10:53 PM Post #3274502
| Actually I would flunk all of you. Every answer is either incomplete or contains one inaccurate statement except none of the above. No wonder the kids have so much trouble with the SAT. |
gessiegail
Taft, TX (Zone 9a)
March 13, 2007 12:30 AM Post #3274754
| I cheated and looked it up!!!! |
pepper23
KC Metro area, MO (Zone 6a)
March 13, 2007 1:22 AM Post #3274914
| LOL. I just guessed. Then I saw I was partially right but had voted with the majority.
Farmerdill-give a us a quiz!! |
skaz421
Wesley Chapel, FL (Zone 9a)
March 13, 2007 2:40 AM Post #3275227
| Julius who? Didn't he open a winery, with brother Ernest? |
Plantcrazii
Dallas, TX (Zone 8a)
March 13, 2007 2:58 AM Post #3275285
| This was a trick question and actually none of the answers were correct.
Jesse |
nifty413
Garland, TX (Zone 8a)
March 13, 2007 3:59 AM Post #3275529
| From Merriam-Webster online dictionary... "the 15th day of March, May, July, or October or the 13th day of any other month in the ancient Roman calendar."
Should we assume the meaning has changed since the conception of the word? People today use the word "moot" as an adjective to mean "not subject to debate," which, of course, is contrary to its original definition. |
bigcityal
Menasha, WI (Zone 5a)
March 13, 2007 4:20 AM Post #3275627
| Farmerdill - I didn't actually vote, am I still wrong ;) |
gardenglory
Gainesville, FL (Zone 9a)
March 13, 2007 12:03 PM Post #3276126
| I was tricked...lol. I thought the question was, what ARE the ides of March are, not where is the word used or made famous. |
Farmerdill
Augusta, GA (Zone 8a)
March 13, 2007 12:57 PM Post #3276261
| The question was " What are/is the "Ides"? March 15 is one example of the twelve possible examples but does not answer the question. The Julian calender year began with the Kalendae of January ( January 1). Kalendae from which is derived our word calender is the first day of the month. Takes out anwer two nicely.
Remember the famous question? How many animals of each type did Moses take aboard the ark? |
Terry
Murfreesboro, TN (Zone 7a)
March 13, 2007 1:13 PM Post #3276320
| tsk, tsk, tsk. Farmerdill is reading way too much into the answers. I'm not sure I would want to take a test he created - yikes! (*grin*)
Simply put, I took the definitions I found for describing the ides and divvied them up among several options, so as to make an "all of the above" answer. Because - as carrielamont pointed out - I rarely offer an "all of the above" option (since the goal of the weekly question is to stimulate dialogue, not create some scientifically accurate survey ;o)
None of the answers is completely correct on its own, but all of the answers combined would be (pedantics notwithstanding) correct. |
DonShirer
Westbrook, CT (Zone 6a)
March 13, 2007 2:27 PM Post #3276557
| Eheu! a pox on he betides
Who confusing quiz provides
To Julian calendrous ides
Where lore and logic doth collides.
The months in half it subdivides,
And ushers in the fresh spring tides.
But some the fifteenth it decides
While others triskadekaphides.
Reputed day of Caesarcides,
As Shakespeare's Witch she prophesieds.
"Et Tu", to Brutus, he confides,
As dagger into toga slides.
What brought forth these strange asides?
My guess so bad, it wounded prides.
So with encyclopaedic guides
I'd best review all Roman ides.
|
pjank46
Selma, AL (Zone 8a)
March 13, 2007 3:40 PM Post #3276836
| WOW |
Laurie1
Burwash Weald
United Kingdom (Zone 9b)
March 13, 2007 5:13 PM Post #3277138
| Its also my birthday and my wedding anniversary - smart husband, only has to remember one day, gets two points. |
brigidlily
Lumberton, TX (Zone 8b)
March 13, 2007 5:16 PM Post #3277143
| So, if it's all of the above, then everyone who didn't say "none of the above" is right, right? |
MQN
Salt Lake City, UT (Zone 6a)
March 13, 2007 6:30 PM Post #3277376
| My hats off to Don - and doth repeat...WOW |
Mahnot
DFW area, TX (Zone 7b)
March 13, 2007 7:02 PM Post #3277479
| A simple WOW will not suffice
For clever wit and rhyme,
Although in gardening season's vice
We may not have the time
To splurge with praise
So well deserved
One who has turned a clever phrase,
As we have all observed.
Methinks perhaps this clever child,
His brilliant wit effulgent,
Must verily publish more his script -
He must be more indulgent
To brighten up our daily lives
And dazzle us with verse
That is, of course, if when he strives
He vouchsafes being terse |
Yuska
San Antonio, TX (Zone 8b)
March 14, 2007 12:12 AM Post #3278439
| re the winery - it was Ernest and Julio Gallo |
Yuska
San Antonio, TX (Zone 8b)
March 14, 2007 12:12 AM Post #3278440
| re the winery - it was Ernest and Julio Gallo |
Yuska
San Antonio, TX (Zone 8b)
March 14, 2007 12:12 AM Post #3278441
| re the winery - it was Ernest and Julio Gallo |
Plantcrazii
Dallas, TX (Zone 8a)
March 14, 2007 12:38 AM Post #3278530
| Well I'm with Farmerdill and I think the answer is none of the above.
Jesse |
se_eds
Millersburg, PA (Zone 6b)
March 14, 2007 12:40 AM Post #3278535
| I voted None of the above as the choices were all not completely correct. Oh well, at least I voted. |
lafko06
Brimfield, MA (Zone 5a)
March 14, 2007 12:44 AM Post #3278559
| We're just spoiled by you and all of your fun questions Terry!!! :) |
Plantcrazii
Dallas, TX (Zone 8a)
March 14, 2007 12:48 AM Post #3278572
| Yes and we know how much Terry likes those trick questions. :) But they are all a lot of fun.
Jesse |
nifty413
Garland, TX (Zone 8a)
March 14, 2007 12:53 AM Post #3278592
| So, if I'm reading this right, the answer is "none of the above" - meaning that none of the choices are correct - even the choice of "none of the above." So the only way to get this quiz correct is not to answer it. Global thermonuclear war, tic-tac-toe - the only way to win the game is not to play. |
Terry
Murfreesboro, TN (Zone 7a)
March 14, 2007 2:10 AM Post #3278822
| nifty, take heart - the answer is still "all of the above." And really, if you answered ANY of them (besides none of the above), you were at least partially correct ;o)
1) The Ides fell on the 15th day of March, May, July, or October or the 13th day of any other month.[1] Thus the Ides of March was the 15th day of March according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ides_of_March
2) The soothsayer's warning to Julius Caesar, "Beware the Ides of March," has forever imbued that date with a sense of foreboding according to this site http://www.infoplease.com/spot/ides1.html
3) The Ides of March is the first day of the Roman New Year. It also marks the first day of spring in the Roman calendar according to this site http://www.holidayinsights.com/other/ides.htm |
bigcityal
Menasha, WI (Zone 5a)
March 14, 2007 3:41 AM Post #3279176
| still no "I'm your vehicle mama" references...until now. |
Plantcrazii
Dallas, TX (Zone 8a)
March 14, 2007 3:55 AM Post #3279220
| Terry, I hate to tell you this, but on the quiz you did not list number 1 as an answer. You left of the month of March, which is why I did not select that answer. You put Quoting:The 15th day of May, July, or October in the ancient Roman calendar. So that answer was not correct because March was missing.
Jesse
I'm not trying to be a smarty pants, just wanted you to know why I did not select that answer. |
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX (Zone 9a)
March 14, 2007 4:57 AM Post #3279348
| Ah - forget the question! I like the poetry!! Very clever, Don and Mahnot!! |
dmcdevitt
Schroon Lake, NY (Zone 4a)
March 14, 2007 8:46 AM Post #3279543
| Yes, I vote for the poetry too!!
Excellent!
|
cececoogan
Waukesha, WI (Zone 5a)
March 14, 2007 1:03 PM Post #3279871
| I did all of the above because I really haven't a clue. Isn't that terrible? |
Terry
Murfreesboro, TN (Zone 7a)
March 14, 2007 1:19 PM Post #3279908
| Jesse, I left it off because it was already in another answer. I realize the question (and answers) could be construed many ways, but I would encourage everyone to not try to read too much into it - I really wasn't intending to make it difficult ;o) |
HERBIE43
Rutland , MA (Zone 5b)
March 14, 2007 1:23 PM Post #3279922
| i just picked any answer as i did not know which was correct but i wanted to know and to find out you had to put an answer down. i'm confused. i have trouble with "30 days has september, april june and november. all the rest have 31 except feb which as 28 except in leap year then it has 29.
edited cause i can remember rhymes from 50 yrs ago but can't spell.
This message was edited Mar 14, 2007 9:26 AM |
claypa
West Pottsgrove, PA (Zone 6b)
March 14, 2007 1:31 PM Post #3279941
| You've probably heard of mnemonic devices, well I have what I call a 'moronic device': Thirty days has September, all the rest I don't remember... |
Plantcrazii
Dallas, TX (Zone 8a)
March 14, 2007 3:08 PM Post #3280176
| Terry, I was not meaning it to be mean in any way. I just figured it was a trick question and that you left it off intentionally to fool us. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way.
Jesse |
Terry
Murfreesboro, TN (Zone 7a)
March 14, 2007 3:10 PM Post #3280187
| Nahhh, no offense. Just wanted to make it clear that I'm not clever enough to deliberately create truly tricky questions (*grin*) If one is misleading, it is usually quite unintentional! |
cloudia
Seattle, WA
March 14, 2007 5:34 PM Post #3280949
| Little quote from Wikipedia's New Year article...
The ancient Roman calendar had only ten months and started the year on 1 March, which is still reflected in the names of some months which derive from Latin: September (seventh), October (eighth), November (ninth), December (tenth). Around 713 BC the months of January and February were added to the year, traditionally by the second king, Numa Pompilius, along with the leap month Intercalaris. The year used in dates was the consular year, which began on the day when consuls first entered office — fixed by law at 15 March in 222 BC[1], but this event was moved to 1 January in 153 BC. In 45 BC, Julius Caesar introduced the Julian calendar, dropping Intercalaris; however, 1 January continued to be the first day of the new year.
In general whoever wrote this sounds like they knew their stuff. My only point is, depending on how you look at it, even the None of the Above answer was correct. (Not that I voted for None of the Above--I was too confused to vote! Sniff.) |
Jax4ever
Boxford, MA (Zone 6a)
March 15, 2007 1:01 AM Post #3282302
| Yes, but in what Star Trek episode did The Enterprise tresspass into a territorial annex of the Tholian Assembly? |
ownedbycats
Southern, NH (Zone 5b)
March 15, 2007 1:04 AM Post #3282316
| Tholian Web
(I have that daylily) |
Dave47
Southern, CT (Zone 6a)
March 15, 2007 2:06 AM Post #3282614
| I always thought that the months meaning seven (Sept.) eight (Oct.) nine (Nov.) and ten (Dec.) were out of place because of the later addition of July and August after the rule of Julius and Augustus Ceaser. That would have been A.D.
But either way I like what Don said. |
Jax4ever
Boxford, MA (Zone 6a)
March 15, 2007 3:12 PM Post #3284151
| The Tholian Web is a daylily???? I have to have it!
It's my favorite episode. I always liked the friction between Spock and McCoy, b/c Spock always won in the end.
Yes, I have the "Captain Kirk" hosta!
I am owned by cats, too-- actually one, named Jax. |
cloudia
Seattle, WA
March 15, 2007 5:22 PM Post #3284550
| I think July and August were renamed rather than added, but I'm not sure.
A plant named "Tholian Web?" How about one named "Gamesters of Triskelion?"
; ) |
ownedbycats
Southern, NH (Zone 5b)
March 15, 2007 5:26 PM Post #3284561
| I have the following Star Trek daylilies:
Romulan Defector
Ferengi Gold
Borg Technology
Tholian Web
Resistance is futile
Photon Torpedo
Life on Bajore
Cardassian Border
Deanna's Gift
Dabo Girl
Spock's Sun
Quark
Entering Warp Speed
And these are on order for this year:
Final Frontier
Parallel Universe
Which Way Jim
Romulus
To Go Boldly
Don't even get me started about cat daylilies... |
FlowrLady
-South Central-, IL (Zone 6a)
March 15, 2007 7:19 PM Post #3284892
| Well, we all did go to school, didn't we! |
woofie
Chewelah, WA (Zone 5a)
March 15, 2007 8:58 PM Post #3285224
| Sorry, Terry, I'm with Farmerdill. My nitpicking little soul (corrupted by way too many years of multiple choice questions created by evil, sadistic teachers) tells me that "all of the above" implies that each answer is correct in and of itself. Now if you'd had "none of the above" above "all of the above" (heh heh) we could have had even more fun with this. See, now you're going to have to add yet another answer: "all of the above, combined." But isn't this fun? And look at the wonderful poetry it's inspired! |
Mahnot
DFW area, TX (Zone 7b)
March 15, 2007 9:29 PM Post #3285329
| Terry, what's your Real Life like, LOL ? |
Terry
Murfreesboro, TN (Zone 7a)
March 16, 2007 1:22 AM Post #3286098
| Mahnot, I have three kids, a husband, a huge dog and a cat (both of which think they are lap pets.) One son is in his third year of college, the next one is graduating this year, and waiting on pins and needles for his acceptance letters, and the "baby" (only girl) is in middle school - just hitting puberty with all the mood swings that make life a roller-coaster ;o)
You can probably guess what my life is like, *lol* And you can probably guess why I don't sweat the nit-picky details on a weekly fun quiz! |
Plantcrazii
Dallas, TX (Zone 8a)
March 16, 2007 1:58 AM Post #3286269
| You sure do have a busy life Terry. I guess we perfectionists should slack up on you a bit and not give you so much trouble. But it will be hard to do but I'll try my best. LOL
Jesse |
Dave47
Southern, CT (Zone 6a)
March 16, 2007 2:59 AM Post #3286524
| Cloudia, I checked. You are right. July and August were the new names for the months named four & five (in Latin) January & February were added but they were the last 2 months of the year. Then they changed the first day of the year from March 15 to January 1.
Very interesting (to me anyway). But what I still don't get is how any society could start their year in the middle of a month.
|
Mahnot
DFW area, TX (Zone 7b)
March 16, 2007 3:36 AM Post #3286625
| Terry, I will behave. :o) You have enough going on, I see.
Thank goodness all of my 4 kids are all around the 40 year mark.
Phew ! |
MollieB55
Landrum, SC (Zone 7b)
March 16, 2007 7:22 AM Post #3286917
| I was one of those teachers "corrupted by way too many years of multiple choice questions created by evil, sadistic teachers)" Boy, I hated making out those questions but my principal made me do it. But, for the the same reasons you stated (and others) I chose none becasue it wasn't always on the 15th. It could be any where from the 13th to the 16th. So I am crying "uncle." What is the answer? All or none? (I lost my mind. I think the kids stole it! 8th graders are good at that!) |
LavinaMae
Grantsboro, NC (Zone 8b)
March 16, 2007 12:25 PM Post #3287919
| I thought it was when Otilla the Hun conquered Rome? Oh well
Lavina |
Roselaine
North Vancouver, BC (Zone 8a)
March 16, 2007 12:41 PM Post #3287979
| Our twin grandsons were born on the 15th...Happy Birthday, Gavin & Dylan!!!!!!! luv Baba...we are now 3! |
woofie
Chewelah, WA (Zone 5a)
March 16, 2007 1:18 PM Post #3288081
| Twins! Congratulations, Grandma! |
roadrunner
Hereford, AZ (Zone 8a)
March 16, 2007 10:17 PM Post #3289906
| I knew the answer was ALL OF THE ABOVE...as I just did a skit for my senior's group at church yesterday...we call our group...The Happy Achers...and the program was titled The Ides of Marcfh...a bunch of windy people with quips, quotes and opinions...here's a picture of The Lamm Sisters...Do you know the one in the center?
Most people think that Caesar was stabbed to death...not true...Brutus slipped some Hemlock leaves in his salad at dinner...(the first Caesar salad?)...when he fell face down in his salad, Brutus ...pretending compassion...asked "How many leaves did you eat Caesar?"...to which Caesar replied:" Et Two Brutus!!" LOL LOL LOL
I gave that to our announcer to read yesterday...
OK...I thought it was funny!! Jo
Click the image for an enlarged view.
|
JeanBHall
Norwood, MA (Zone 6a)
March 17, 2007 3:31 PM Post #3291982
| I looked this up on infoplease.com. Here's the scoop...
The soothsayer's warning to Julius Caesar, "Beware the Ides of March," has forever imbued that date with a sense of foreboding. But in Roman times the expression "Ides of March" did not necessarily evoke a dark mood—it was simply the standard way of saying "March 15." Surely such a fanciful expression must signify something more than merely another day of the year? Not so. Even in Shakespeare's time, sixteen centuries later, audiences attending his play Julius Caesar wouldn't have blinked twice upon hearing the date called the Ides.
The term Ides comes from the earliest Roman calendar, which is said to have been devised by Romulus, the mythical founder of Rome. Whether it was Romulus or not, the inventor of this calendar had a penchant for complexity. The Roman calendar organized its months around three days, each of which served as a reference point for counting the other days:
Kalends (1st day of the month)
Nones (the 7th day in March, May, July, and October; the 5th in the other months)
Ides (the 15th day in March, May, July, and October; the 13th in the other months)
The remaining, unnamed days of the month were identified by counting backwards from the Kalends, Nones, or the Ides. For example, March 3 would be V Nones—5 days before the Nones (the Roman method of counting days was inclusive; in other words, the Nones would be counted as one of the 5 days).
Days in March
March 1: Kalends; March 2: VI Nones; March 3: V Nones; March 4: IV Nones; March 5: III Nones; March 6: Pridie Nones (Latin for "on the day before"); March 7: Nones; March 15: Ides
Used in the first Roman calendar as well as in the Julian calendar (established by Julius Caesar in 45 B.C.E.) the confusing system of Kalends, Nones, and Ides continued to be used to varying degrees throughout the Middle Ages and into the Renaissance.
So, the Ides of March is just one of a dozen Ides that occur every month of the year. Kalends, the word from which calendar is derived, is another exotic-sounding term with a mundane meaning. Kalendrium means account book in Latin: Kalend, the first of the month, was in Roman times as it is now, the date on which bills are due. |
Mahnot
DFW area, TX (Zone 7b)
March 17, 2007 5:14 PM Post #3292245
| It was Julius Ceasar's wife, Culpernia, who had a bad dream
the night before and was worried of danger for her husband ,
so she warned him to "Beware, the Ides of March."
He, of course, ignored her and went to the Senate. |
claypa
West Pottsgrove, PA (Zone 6b)
March 17, 2007 5:24 PM Post #3292285
| Is there such a thing as one Ide? |
