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Seed Germination: Soaking seeds

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Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

May 4, 2007
7:04 PM

Post #3463465

I have some moon flower seeds - I've read a few places that it's best to nick and then soak them in warm water for 24 hours. My apologies if this has been asked...I did attempt a search - LOL. What have you found best to soak them in i.e. what that will keep the water warm for 24 hours. Thanks much!!!
GiddyMoon
Carmichael, CA

May 4, 2007
8:23 PM

Post #3463676

I have never knicked any of my seeds. I usually soak them overnight and then plant. I haven't even worried about temp in the house or water.. All the moonvines I have planted have come up just fine.
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

May 4, 2007
10:46 PM

Post #3464147

Chantell, you don't have to keep the water warm the whole time, just use tepid/warm water when you put the nicked seeds in.

Germination is much higher, and very much faster, if you nick them and soak them. (Heck, I've even soaked them for a couple days before planting them.)

Shoe.

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

May 5, 2007
3:09 PM

Post #3465952

Thanks Shoe and Giddy!!! I claim complete ignorance with regard to seeds and such...LOL. With my Petunia success last year and I thought I'd try my hand at a few - tad late in the season but going to try just the same. :)
GiddyMoon
Carmichael, CA

May 5, 2007
9:12 PM

Post #3466808

I choose not to knick mainly because I am not allowed to use knives or real glass in my house. I have a tendancy to hurt myself and a tiny seed against a knife is a recipe for disaster. I cannot count how many steak knives have fallen off the counter and landed directly stuck into the top of my foot.

I planted about 15 moonvine seeds this year and they all came up.

You can soak them longer if you have to. Soak them overnight then between wet paper towels until you see a tail, then plant about 1/4 - 1/2" down .

If you choose to knick, be my guest, I know it works, I just never do.

Let us know how it turns out.
glendalekid
Tuscaloosa, AL
(Zone 7b)

May 19, 2007
6:01 AM

Post #3513289

I planted moonflower seeds without nicking or soaking. They all came up fine. Then I read that they were supposed to be nicked or soaked. I didn't want to fool with nicking so I soaked them overnight. They all came up fine, but they did sprout several days earlier than the ones I hadn't soaked. I just don't think it really matters much with moonflower seeds except to speed up the process. = - )

bluespiral

bluespiral

(Zone 7a)

May 21, 2007
2:15 AM

Post #3518387

I've also germinated moonflower seeds without the nicking & soaking business. But a "Fairy Seedmother" has gifted me with 30 types of MGs with about 3 seeds each, so I'm doing the soaking/nicking routine with all my MG seeds tonight.

She also gave me her notes a while back to "purty up", in which I learned that when nicking, be sure to nick the pointy end away from the end with the eye. Nicking can be accomplished by rubbing with sandpaper - just be sure to be gentle enough to reveal as little as possible of white beneath the seed coat.

If y'all would like to have her purtied-up notes, dmail me. I better not post it until it passes final muster.

PS - MG seeds (which include moonflowers) can be soaked in a 3:1 solution of water to 3% hydrogen peroxide (H202).

It's probably not necessary to know all this for moonflowers, but it's nice to have answers to questions - these techniques (along with the essay) would be useful with many other types of seeds.

May all our moonflowers shine bright this summer -
karen
glendalekid
Tuscaloosa, AL
(Zone 7b)

May 22, 2007
12:49 AM

Post #3521473

Karen - bluespiral

Yep, only three seeds each is a really good reason for nicking and soaking and anything else to ensure germination. Thank you for telling us about nicking the pointy end. Maybe that's been posted before, but I didn't see it. Sure wouldn't have thought of it on my own -- I would have nicked the wrong end!

I have about 30 moonflower vines ready to set out now. Hope to get them in tomorrow.

Karen

bluespiral

bluespiral

(Zone 7a)

May 24, 2007
4:56 AM

Post #3529755

Would y'all humor me and post pics of your moonflowers when they bloom? Farther south than me, they're gonna be quite a sight. How are you growing them? porch? fence? arbor? other? Is anyone doing one of those moon gardens with white flowers? Karen (Glendale) - 30' sounds incredible - oughta be quite a dance of sphinx moths.

Did you know that it is said that somewhere around the Rio Grande, a blue moonflower (version of I. alba - not I. turbinata or those others) was said to be growing, last seen (I think) in the 1950s? And not seen since - if anyone should "rediscover" it, you would cause quite a bit of excitement.

The morning glory family (Convolvulaceae) includes moonflowers and somewhere around 50 or so genera and 1,000+ species. I pick up different things around different forums - and it's all good. But the morning glory forum is unusual on DG for the extent to which it contributes to unlocking mysteries (to me) of botanical science. Time spent there is really worthwhile for reasons that go far beyond MGs - as mesmerizing to me as they all are anyway.

Shoe, I don't know if I can find it, but would it be okay for me to repost your moonflower story here? I believe the quote for that day on DG was from Mark Twain, and boy howdy did you run away with that theme.
glendalekid
Tuscaloosa, AL
(Zone 7b)

May 24, 2007
5:45 AM

Post #3529820

bluespiral,

I'm planting them on the picket fence. There is 185' of it. I told my daughter that she should repaint it from the white it is to a "contrasting" color for my moonflowers. You don't want to see the look I got for that suggestion. LOL.

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

May 24, 2007
2:45 PM

Post #3530631

LOL - whew, I can only imagine...
Ok folks...if I nicked/soaked/then planted my moonflower seeds around the 5th...shouldn't I be seeing "life" by now?
glendalekid
Tuscaloosa, AL
(Zone 7b)

May 24, 2007
3:36 PM

Post #3530842

I would think so. The ones I soaked started coming up in about 5-6 days. The ones I didn't soak took about twice that long. I didn't nick any of them.

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

May 24, 2007
3:40 PM

Post #3530858

Ok...now I'm sad...I'll take a better look when I get home.
Horseshoe
Efland, NC
(Zone 7a)

May 24, 2007
3:52 PM

Post #3530908

Chantell...I sold so many MoonFlower/Moonvine plants at the mkt I had to start more seeds to please folks. I soaked/nicked them and then started them on the 15th and they came up in about 5 or 6 days. Yep, you might want to gently dig one up and see if it either rotted or if it is showing any signs of germing. If it's in the ground I wonder if your soil temperature is still too cool.

Bluespiral, feel free to repost the moonflower story...I remember the Mark Twain episode! Good luck finding it though, I have a heck of a time finding certain threads!

Shoe

bluespiral

bluespiral

(Zone 7a)

May 25, 2007
3:50 AM

Post #3533229

Glendale, funny you should bring up painting a fence - Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer had the same attitude your daughter did ( http://www.pbs.org/marktwain/learnmore/writings_tom.html ). Welp, one day during the following thread, DG's quote of the day was from Twain, and that led to a 'Shoe story in the following moonflower thread: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/448913/

Chantell, following that germination essay I sent you, after soaking moonflower seed on 5/20, transferring to coffee-filter/baggy on 5/21 (no nicking), and potting up on 5/23, there are now leaves poking up! As soon as the sprouted seeds were potted, out they went before the leaves got used to being indoors. There's still time to start them in Virginia for those nocturnal reprieves from coming dog days.

Shoe, hijacking that thread with you and the others was a high point in my time with DG - methinks there's too many folks sticking to the subject around here lol

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

May 25, 2007
3:53 AM

Post #3533240

Ok...I shall go in search of more moonflower seeds (used all the ones that had been sent to me) and use the directions that you gave me in the dmail. I saved those directions but I'd already planted mine some time prior. :(

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

May 27, 2007
5:34 PM

Post #3541646

Beginning of success? 24 hours after their water/peroxide soak (WITH seeds knicked - I wasn't taking any chances). I'm sure MOST of you are used to this - but for me, it's nothing short of a miracle!!

Thumbnail by Chantell
Click the image for an enlarged view.

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

May 27, 2007
6:08 PM

Post #3541757

Ha! Glad I saw this thread... I had 6 moonflower seeds soaking, not nicked, and had forgotten about them for 2 days. 4 look like yours, so into the ground they go today!
gardenbugde
Smyrna, DE
(Zone 7a)

June 15, 2007
7:27 PM

Post #3618946

I recently stumbled onto the forum about soaking seeds in Hydrogen Peroxide. Many people say to dilute the 3% solution with water. Bill Munro of Michigan soaks his seeds in an 8% solution and has amazing results, which tells me that it's not necessary to dilute the 3% solution any further. He also waters all his plants with the same 8% solution. I'm trying it "straight" with some ROS seeds. I used a watered down solution to soak morning glory seeds (Wedding Bells, which are hard to get to germinate) and had 4 out of 7 sprout, which for Wedding Bells is phenomenal. I never nick my morning glories... you're just asking for an accident and a trip to the ER!

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

June 17, 2007
3:21 AM

Post #3623870

Tomorrow i will try to remember to take a pic of my moonflowers in a canning jar, just dumped in water, added about a splash of hydrogen peroxide, and all have sprouted in 24-30 hours exept one damaged seed. they will get planted tomorrow. no nicking.
SoCal
Huntington Beach, CA
(Zone 10a)

June 24, 2007
3:59 PM

Post #3652548

Question please...
I've been soaking several different seeds and they have all sprouted their little tail. Can someone please tell me if the tail goes up or down, or does it matter?

Donna

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

June 24, 2007
5:24 PM

Post #3652832

Donna - funny you'd asked that, as I think I've planted them upside down a few times...LOL. I was told the little "tail" goes down - as it's the start of roots.

darius

darius
So.App.Mtns.
United States
(Zone 5b)

June 24, 2007
5:44 PM

Post #3652874

i planted mine sideways, not knowing better. i only planted 4 qand 2 have come up. several more in water/peroxide now which will get planted this week.
SoCal
Huntington Beach, CA
(Zone 10a)

June 24, 2007
6:49 PM

Post #3653097

I just had this question anwered by another DG member and she said it should probably go down, but if it's planted the wrong way, it should correct itself. If you think about it, if the plant self seeded in the garden, it wouldn't plant itself the correct way either. lol

Thanks,
Donna
deanna8
Raeford, NC

June 25, 2007
3:49 AM

Post #3655028

This is my first time reading this thread. I have never heard of doing this. Do you soak or nick all seeds or just some?I am trying to learn all I can as this is my first year and am hoping for a better year next year. thanks for all info. deanna
RrrrrGrrrr
Atlanta, GA
(Zone 7b)

February 20, 2010
5:25 PM

Post #7574480

A couple of years ago I tried nicking, soaking and directly planting moonflower seeds. None of them came up.

This year, I nicked each of the seeds (only one of them shot across the room..ha!), soaked them overnight and planted them in peat pots. I put the pots in one of those trays covered with a clear plastic lid. I then set the whole thing on a heating pad in my sun room where the temperature stays in the 70ís all winter.

I planted 21 seeds four days ago. Five were up yesterday, eighteen were up this morning.. I am very grateful that ANY of them came up after that first experience.
rosysunset
Kurten, TX
(Zone 8b)

February 21, 2010
12:09 AM

Post #7575257

I never do anything but soak overnight in water. But I DO wait until its warmer, we are expecting low 30's 2 nights next week. The moonflowers this past summer were such a treat, I planted them on back porch entry, so we had the visual beauty, the wonderful aroma, and close up views of hummingbird moths that flocked to them this year. Attaching a close up my GD got.

Thumbnail by rosysunset
Click the image for an enlarged view.

gardenbugde
Smyrna, DE
(Zone 7a)

February 21, 2010
3:38 PM

Post #7576760

To nick or not to nick! If you must nick them, use a nail clipper and only take a little piece off the pointy end. If you cut too deep, you will ruin any chances of them growing. rosysunset-- aren't those hummingbird moths cool? The first time I saw them I was in awe! I'm hoping my moonflowers will give me a good show this year. Some years are better than others. Last year, my lavender Moons did really well, while the white ones failed to grow.. a real downer for me!

Kathy in Delaware
rosysunset
Kurten, TX
(Zone 8b)

February 22, 2010
4:06 PM

Post #7578920

Kathy - yes they are cool! Now I can't say that about the caterpillar's that followed - they decimated the vines at the end of the season-first time seeing this. It was a learning experience for me because that same cat chewed up a beautiful purple datura (I had been patiently waiting on seed pods) - and I wondered why. Turns out that cat (the tomato hornworm) loves the solanaceae family of which tomatoes, moonflowers and datura belong.
I never heard of purple moonflowers, do mean daturas?
gardenbugde
Smyrna, DE
(Zone 7a)

February 23, 2010
6:15 PM

Post #7581790

rosysunset-- no, I mean lavender moonflower. :-) They are much smaller blooms than the white moon and have no fragrance. They open in the evenings as well. Very pretty!

Kathy

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

March 10, 2010
2:58 PM

Post #7619443

To anyone that loves Datura (moon flower/angle trumpet) but live where these perennials aren't hardy. You can winter them over in your fridge. That's what I do.

Here is the link on how to:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1051779/
evelyn_inthegarden
Sierra Foothills, CA
(Zone 8a)

March 14, 2010
12:11 PM

Post #7628655

I just hope that y'all know that the moonflower will attract the hummingbird moths, but they will lay eggs and create tomato hornworms...moths - amazing, cats hungry!
capebretoner
montmagny, QC

April 8, 2010
3:56 PM

Post #7690222

I think after reading all these threads I might try the Moonflower again. I tried it a number of years ago and all I produced were leaves any reason why this would happen. I started them one year and they bloomed before I got a chance to plant outside. When do you usually start seeding. Thank You
teddy_8905
Lakeview, OH

August 30, 2012
7:27 AM

Post #9259152

do you have to soak them at all? I took and put them in the coffee filter method and so far nothing. Of course I just put them in the baggie yesterday, should I take them out and nick them? Then put them back in the baggie?
teddy_8905
Lakeview, OH

September 2, 2012
7:40 PM

Post #9262879

I have several different experiments going, 2 of them I nicked and put in a coffee filter with some hydrogen peroxide and water sprayed on them, so far nothing, then I have planted 4 in the big pot on the concrete slab in front of the house, they were nicked but not soaked. And I have 4 that are soaking in a small pepsi lid with a little hydrogen peroxide added they have been nicked too. Is it necessary to have them submerged or can they just float on the water? They are moonflower seeds of course, I just want some to grow and maybe bloom before cold weather hits, this is the 2nd of September so I hope we have some more warm and sunny days before wintertime.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 2, 2012
8:26 PM

Post #9262916

teddy, I used to grow them and my daughter still does. To be sure we are talking about the same plant I am referring to is Datura cultivars aka moonflower, trumpet flower.

I have grown both yellow, white and purple varieties. Now I prefer to grow irises and daylily in their space since I have a small yard.

All seeds of Datura are erratic to germinate. Can take up to 30 days. I nicked then soaked them overnight in hand hot water to plump them. I then placed them in a damp kitchan paper towel and store in a zip lock bag. Placed the bag in room temperature or top of the fridge where it is warmer. I checked the seeds regularly and when they sprouted I planted them in a container filled with potting soil

Strangly, seeds dropped from the seed pods have no problem germinating in the soil when weather gets warm in the spring. My daughter literally have to weed them out. If you want to sow outside, you can do that also by scattering them on the soil and lightly cover.

Even if you get plants going now, they won't bloom this late in the season. They only bloom with full sun and long daytime hours. When that become shorter, they won't set buds. In my zone that is late August. You can carry them over the winter potted. Store in a cool place to force dormancy.

Below are the ones I have grown. My daughter prefers to grow the white one.

Thumbnail by blomma   Thumbnail by blomma   Thumbnail by blomma   Thumbnail by blomma   
Click an image for an enlarged view.

teddy_8905
Lakeview, OH

September 8, 2012
2:52 PM

Post #9269182

I thought that I would try to grow some moonflower seeds inside this winter. I got this plate and the wet paper towels, does this look like a good idea? I have the flourescent bulb in the light so it won't cook the seeds. It would be nice to have some big white blooms inside this winter while the snow is falling and the temperatures are very cold, I also have some in a big container that I am going to try to convince my hubby to let me bring in when it gets cold, I have had a hard time trying to post pics here but I will post a pic of the pot, I forgot how many I put in the pot, but there are quite a few, I figured if I just get one to germinate and grow and bloom that will make me very happy. I have been reading up on them, you know how I get! And they say that you can get germination by puttting them between two paper towels and keep them wet. And this is what I came up with, any advice and suggestions would be helpful, the big pot is in the back yard where the sun can help with the growing at least until the snow flies, hopefully they will grow enough to put out blooms if I move them into the house. Here is a picture of the pot, the seeds are in there I just don't know where exactly.

Thumbnail by teddy_8905
Click the image for an enlarged view.

teddy_8905
Lakeview, OH

September 8, 2012
3:02 PM

Post #9269187

This is the pot I was telling you in the previous post. Even if just one plant grows and blooms I will consider that a success!

Thumbnail by teddy_8905
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

September 10, 2012
10:51 AM

Post #9270911

Teddy are these the vining Moonflowers or the shrub-like called Daturas? I've not had luck with the vining moonflowers sadly. I'll love to hear how your experiment turns out.
teddy_8905
Lakeview, OH

September 11, 2012
8:48 AM

Post #9271939

These are Datura.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 11, 2012
3:58 PM

Post #9272307

teddy, I have grown Daturas for years, both in Wyoming and Nebraska. They will not set buds in the fall since the sun is not strong enough and the nights are cool. Neither will they do so growing in the house. You can grow them to be put in the garden next summer for a head start.
teddy_8905
Lakeview, OH

September 12, 2012
9:46 AM

Post #9273071

What should I do with the ones I have soaking? Should I throw them away?

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 12, 2012
5:03 PM

Post #9273420

teddy, no don't throw them away. You can still continue to grow them when they sprout if you have a sunny window. They just won't bloom until next season. When they sprout, pot them in a 4" pot and place under light, then outdoors until the threat of frost. Before frost bring them in to continue to grow. You can trim them back if too big.
teddy_8905
Lakeview, OH

September 13, 2012
6:42 AM

Post #9273876

When it gets cold, the windows are not a good place to put anything you want to grow, in our house the windowsills are very cold. I have the flourescent lamp like what I have on them now, will that be enough? They don't seem to be doing anything, the ones in the pot rotted away, so that part was a bust, and these are not doing a dang blasted thing. I don't know if I am just not patient enough to grow them or what but I don't see any roots at all. I have been keeping them moist but not soggy, I come home from work and the paper towel has dried out and then I added more water. Any advice besides patience?
teddy_8905
Lakeview, OH

September 16, 2012
5:34 PM

Post #9277053

Success, as you can see, some of the moonflower seeds have started to sprout, can I use the same pots that I used for the morning glories last winter? How much bigger do I let them get in the baggie before I pot them up?

Thumbnail by teddy_8905
Click the image for an enlarged view.

blomma

blomma
Wyoming, WY
(Zone 4a)

September 17, 2012
3:10 PM

Post #9278073

teddy,
Dripple a hole with a pencil and plant the roots downwards. Plant the seed just under the soil. You don't want the roots to get longer before planting since they break easily.

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