Molly-My coneflowers have not started to bloom yet, but I am anxiously awaiting them all. I love the picture of your Sundown! Beautiful!
I don't have all the new colored ones yet, but have Ruby Giant. It smells delicious!
The Goldfinches love the seeds once the flowering stops so I never end up deadheading. Oh, the seedlings! :)))
Thanks for sharing your pictures.
I must say I had a couple hybrids from the co-op die, (although the jury may still be out on that one) but the ones that are thriving now, are in full sun all day long, every day of the year. They seem to do fine.
Since I have been here less that 2 years, everyday in the garden is still a learning experience. Not the same thing as gardening in the tropics.
Al, I didn't know that there were that many varieties of coneflowers.
I absolutely love them as well. Last year was my first time, but I think they are great. I did get two razzamatazzs this year that I am waiting to bloom. In addition, I have kim's knees, kim's mophead, magnus, and lots of white swans. I'm still debating getting one of the newer Big Sky series - sundown. I also really like the pink double delight.
Probably over 30 kinds of echinacea now, then add in ratibida and at least the hardy rudbeckia and it's a high number. They are now getting to have some varieties similar to each other. Molly won't like to hear this, but I really didn't care for Sundown - the flowers formed were often deformed and the color fades back to purple rather fast. Sunrise is nice. Razzamatazz is surprisingly hardy here - not a bad flower. Doppleganger got sick and I put it to sleep here.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets the names mixed up!
MollyMc - Those are really big plants for being such babies...you must be a good gardener!
Al, Your collection was beautiful last year, so I bet this year it will be absolutely stunning! In fact, I added 5 more plants because your pictures were so pretty.
I remembered what you said about trying to pick up stuff half price but I had to pass on some 1/2 price Gallardia 'Goblin' last night because Mr. Clean wouldn't wait for the manager to override the register to get my discount. I really could have used those! In big pots, they were only $2.50 each!
Al, would you please describe the differences between White Swan, Hope, and Angel and Primadonna. I have never seen them together to be able to figure out the differences. Right now, I only have White Swan.
I would love to know your favorite of them, and why.
Fragrant Angel is supposed to be more fragrant, but my nose isn't the best and it smells the same to me. Certainly different from the other white ones by the flatness of the flowers. I like the large flat petals. Maybe not as many flowers as White Swan. A bit taller I would say also.
Primadonna White is like a bigger version of White Swan. Mine was in a pot last year which limited it's overall size some. It is a tossup for which one I like better between Fragrant Angel on this one. I have seen Avalanche for sale also that is a different white.
Thank you Al, that was very helpful. It is easy to distinguish the other coneflowers because of the colors. Now, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything because I don't have six different white ones. I will be content with White Swan and Kim's Mophead.
I may have to consider the vintage wine colors though.
These are ready to go in the ground at Lisa's. When I pull them up in the fall I will not want to take them to the dump and I have no idea what to do with the 90 plants I will have. I change the beds by the pool twice a year.
Its hard to image that someone would have a gardener purchase and install perennials, and then treat them like annuals by pulling them out at the end of the season. Its a huge waste of money, but on the other hand, they probably have a fabulous looking garden year round.
I bet you have a few local gardeners that would take them off your hands if you tell them when you pull them out.
Guess that is like locally here, at the malls, colleges, and etc, they put in tulips, dig them, etc. Right now, I just noticed a 100+ small lantana plants just planted in a 10' x 4' strip at a mall entrance, and know that this fall they will rip them out! Sad! Last Christmas they has Rosemary trimmed in tree shapes with bows on top, pretty but such a waste of nice plants.
Might just ask about that. It would be nice to give them to nursing homes, community centers, daycares, or just anyone that would replant and not resell.
Oh, as far as Cone crazy...I got a Giant Cone Flower a couple seasons ago. This year it zoomed to over 6 foot tall! LOL! Not much to look at, but definately a "what is that?" from my neighbors. I have it next to a Verbascum so it looks like I am putting hormones in that bed! LOL!
Yes, Prarie Girl it is a Crepe Myrtle, doubt you can grow there, sorry.
Al, those are native, silly me I didn't even try looking them up! I bought it from Botanic Garden Sale last year just for fun. It won't stay there, need to put them at the back of the class next year! LOL!
Hi, everybody, love the pics of all the coneflowers. I have no idea there were so many pretty kinds. Molly and Al, you must be a fountain of info on coneflowers with all the varieties you grow. I
...so, after lurking here I asked my sister for some starts of her CF from her butterfly garden. Paradoxa and the old fashioned pinky kind.
I picked up from posts above that they like full sun or at least lots of it. Now I'm wondering what kind of soil they need? Dryish? Sandy? Can they survive in amended nice garden soil? (Did I waste my time amending?!! LOL)
Also, do you get a lot of butterflies (and if so, which kinds of BFs) on your cone flowers? And, if so, do you know which kind of coneflower they visit the most?
Just wondering which CF would be best for the butterfly garden...there are so many in the nurseries now.
My coneflowers are in sand with only minor amendments. Can't afford to amend 5 acres so I pick plants that like sand. They are also in full sun, all day long. They appear to be drought tolerant so you save on watering.
These are the B'flies that are partial to the CF. They rotate between these and Kim's. They also spend equal time over on the Lantana.
I don't mind the flowers fading. The one that is faded out in this photo is the first bloom that I posted on the 19th. It just got a paler shade.
I have a yellow and a white coneflower that are still growing and have yet to bloom. More to look forward to.
tabasco - Echinacea are tolerant of most soil as long as it is not wet during the winter - if it is then helenium are a nice alternative. Rudbeckia in general can handle wetness a little better - with a few liking it better. Ratibida like it drier. I don't have any real pattern as to what coneflowers the butterflies go to - I appear to be trying to attract bees ;)
I really do need to stop moving mine every year so they can get larger - I enlarged their bed this year.
I have coneflowers in regular garden soil and they do great there, too! I find that, not only do the butterflies love them, so do the goldfinches! I let the seedheads stay on and the birds have a party out there!!
I did the coneflower co-op and they all came almost dead and then they died , A very bad co-op as far as I was concerned, I didn't have one that was healthy. It would have been nice to have a couple make it!
I had high hopes too!
Bonnie and Molly -- I lost all my coneflowers, too. Too bad they weren't from the coop because I paid nearly top dollar by buying the from Park's & I lost a bundle! The things they shipped were absolutely pathetic, they were so small.
I bought Tiki Torch this year, will post pics when/if it gets a bloom :)
I loved my Sundown so much last year that I dividied it into 2 last fall and bought 3 more this year. The color is very orange with just a pink cast for me. I have Tiki torch on my list for this fall and may also have to get some After Midnight. May use the Tiki Torch to replace my no namers in the front garden. I love that shade of orange and think they would echo the color of the daylily Orange Velvet.
It's so hard to choose because there are so many now. I have a very nice clump of Ruby Giant that I am in love with. I planted Sunset and Twilight late last season and they are just getting started. Just glad to see they are alive.
I didn't lose any over winter, although Harvest Moon and Sunrise are slow to come around. I am also eyeing up Tiki Torch in hopes that it's a better orange. I've got a bud on Green Envy now so that's exciting.
I went shopping today for new echinacheas, and came home empty handed. I really wanted After Midnight, but they didn't have it in stock. I almost bought Vintage Wine, but I balked at the price. Then I decided that I would just get Sunset, but of course, I couldn't find that either. I probably stop by again next week, but by then, I may not have any more room in the bed.
I have a question to this obviously expert coneflower group. I wintersowed a lot and they did really well. Then I planted some out where they are going to be (for while) and they are doing fine, full sun, in soil pockets in lasagna beds.
Then I potted up a bunch of them into Miracle Grow potting soil in large pots (at least a quart, that was all I had). They did well in morning shade and filtered afternoon light. Then I moved them to where they are now getting some morning sun only. And half of them are dying.
Should I not have moved them as much? Did I perhaps overwater ( I went away for three days so I watered especially well before and after)? Any other thoughts? Are they still salvageable?
I was so excited about getting all those plants from my wintersowing. I will be very grateful for any thoughts you might share on this.
I am not really an expert, but my experience when I transplant plants like that is -it is stressful to them and I always help them out initialy by having them in light shade(no afternoon sun) until they go a while without wilting then move them into full sun.
Lots of varieties. If you had to pick one favorite, what would it be?
I have the plain purple coneflower and it's so easy and rewarding later in the season that I am thinking that I should add more, preferably in a different color.
Thanks, Al. Do you have any idea about watering? I understand that they can take dry conditions, but obviously not at this tender age. But could I have overwatered them? For now, I guess, I'll move them into all shade, even though I potted them at least two weeks ago. So most of that time they were in morning shade and afternoon filtered light.
One of the ways to pick from the multitude of choices is to choose if you prefer the normal coneflowered down-angled petals or the petals that go out, like a regular daisy.
As it happens, I prefer the down-facing petals because I look across at my garden and having them all on the same plane makes them sort of disappear. The downfacing petals actually give me more flower to view. (I also look across from a seated position on my patio, but the same thing applies.)
If you typically are standing or walking as you view them from above, you would probably prefer the outfacing petals.
As long as the soil and pots are well draining it is doubtful that you could have overwatered them. 3 times a week should be enough.
Here is a list of my ratings for coneflowers(ratibida,rudbeckia,echinacea)
Rudbeckia Takao - you'll never find it though
Henry Eihler's rudbeckia
Less than great/undecided
Orange meadowbright/Art's Pride
Rudbeckia Green Wizard
Not as good:
Natives: Nothing wrong with these, they might have less flowers and more plant for some settings - Echinacea pallida is nice,Ratibida pinnata has a lot of flowers, Paradoxa has great color but fewer flowers.
Still a lot I have yet to flower or see that are missing. These are my opinions only.
I grew ratibida (Mexican Hats) from seed this spring, and so far, I've been disappointed. The foliage is very airy, but the stems are so limp that it flops over. I was actually getting ready to chuck it, when I noticed that there was a flower blooming. Then, I felt obligated to plant it in the garden. I have it near my irish eyes, which are just beginning to bloom. The regular purple echinacea is fairly close to them as well.
Thank you for the suggestions with ratings. Looked up your top list members and have a question.
Is Fragrant Angel really fragrant? I don't remember echinacea as a fragrant flower from last year. At least I could not smell it walking past neither early morning nor late at night. I saw Al's comment. Anybody can second or contradict?
Hey you found Takao. I bought mine a few years ago locally and last year it was not to be seen. What happened to mine was it either died and reseeded untrue as a triloba or reverted - either way it was gone and not the same plant there. I figured they stopped growing it because of the same reasons. It's like a Black eyed susan, but in a hard leafed(fulgida) form http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/94349/
Ruby Giant is pretty big, 7" - not sure, bigger than Magnus. Your links remind me that I "do" have Rocky Top, the dog broke it off and I am hoping it regrows from the roots - not a bad flower, unique form.
I do tie up the ratibida pinnata flowers from flopping.
I bought this 'thing' in the garden dept at Lowe's, that is a circle with three prongs. You slip the circle over the plant and push the prongs down in the ground. It holds up those floppy plants really good, and comes in different sizes. I'll take a picture of mine when it quits raining here.
I only bought one...but I like it alot. The wind is blowing pretty hard today, from that tropical storm going by, but that plant is doing just fine. Gonna start picking up a few of them when I'm in Lowe's. : )
I bought a couple of the new orangish coneflowers when they first came out - from white flower farms, and they were very disappointing because they were expensive and small, and languished until they disappeared. I'm afraid to try again, although this year I ordered a couple of perennials
along with a tree peony from Klehms, and the plants are in containers and look beautiful and large and healthy. I don't mind paying a higher price if they are going to do well.
I bought Mango Meadowbright from White Flower Farm a few years back, and was very disappointed in the performance. It performed as you describe, poor and then died off.
I can tell you from a lot of first hand experience, Klehm's takes extremely excellent care of their plants from coneflowers to tree peonies, from conifers to magnolias. They have greenhouses full of beautifully, well cared for plants. Sharon, a coneflower from them is the best there is.
I can't wait to show picks of what I am calling my "homegrowns." These are the no name ones that were given to me a year ago as seedlings. They are almost thigh high now. with numerous buds and many opening right now.
I want to save the photo for when they are wide open in their splendor.
Just went to Klehm's (www.songsparrow.com) and I really want Summer Sky. LOL! You guys are dangerous!
Molly, I bet they are gorgeous...probably just as good as what you can buy for $18.00 each. I have about 5 seedlings, but I forget what the pod parent was. Guess I'll see what they look like next year. The thing is, I don't have room for cone after cone after cone -- I want other things, too.
I know you are going to hate me...I have 5 acres, plus my BF has 5 acres across the road that I can play in too...but I keep most of the good stuff here. He can't stand disarray and I cannot garden neatly. He's gonna be upset when the cannas, caladiums, EE's and mother in law tongue jump out of the flowerbeds and run across the lawn. heeheeheehee!!!
Well, Mags, what else did you buy? I don't want to place my order and then have you post all the other things you bought that I should have looked at. LOL!
Oh, Molly, I don't hate you -- LOL! Not even jealous. Well, maybe a little bit -- I bet you can grow all kinds of things in Florida that we treat as annuals, and on five acres, I bet the whole thing is filled with exotic butterflies and armadillos. ROTFL! Yes, I bet all those plants will be jumping across the street -- you can always say the birds must have pooped out the seed.
I don't allow armadillos here, nor regular ole everyday squirrels, only fox squirrels. Peter Cottontails are irking me now.
Billy, my BF has a 3 footed armadillo living under his house. It dug up the mother in law tongue during the drought. I suspect it was thristy getting a drink from that semi-succulent. When it lived under the hot tub, it had 4 feet. Billy tried to convince it to move out.
Even in Fla, here at my place, although the ground doesn't freeze, the lowest temp here this past winter was 12. Greenhouse got down to 25 and toasted a few tenders.
I bought 'After Midnight' and I have 'Sundown' that I bought last year, as well as 'Twilight'.
Suzy, I was a very baaaad girl and went on a rare 'buying tour' there for an 1 1/2 last weekend. Have purchased many things from them in the past by mail and thought it a dream come true to see all of this in person. I saw so many tree peonies blooming, it was tough to walk away without buying one of each. 3 greenhouses full! 'Happy Days' is now on my list for next year, after seeing it bloom so beautifully there. The peony fields were out behind a stinky hog farm and they said were not tour-able, though I did drive by and take a peek (you know me, I HAD to). What a place and soooooo very organized and well maintained. Worth every penny!
So, as I reported on the other Coneflower thread, I went out today to scout Coneflowers and 3 good nurseries were completely sold out of all CFs from the weekend.
But found 'Bravado' at Home Depot in a Hines Growers plastic pot and also one called "Prairie Splendor", both pinky looking, and one other no-name white one. Bought them (on sale, of course) and planted them, so I will report when they bloom and if they survive. I don't think they are terribly special but we shall see... I remember now that I had 'sunrise' in our garden last year but gave it away because it was sulky--maybe not enough sunshine?
I planted the new aquisitions with a new pink yarrow and rose-colored Cleome, so we shall see how the combo turns out...
But I know they are already a success because within minutes of unloading the car, two swallowtail butterflies came up to check out what was going on...and those were just about the first ST BFs for the year for us!
I wish I could visit Song Sparrow! Their catalog of peonies is great! Located very close to where my inlaws have a lake house in Delavan, WI, but I never had a chance to check out Klehms. Lucky girl, you are!
I'll be off-line for a couple weeks on a trip to CA so I'll want a full report on CF bloom times when I get back!!
The new coneflowers may or may not grow from seed - who knows? But like other hybrids, which I assume these are - they will not breed true. However a perennial plant will still be there the next year - just move any self sown seedlings to another spot till you see what they are when they bloom. My ordinary pink ones reseed vigorously. Usually I just weed them up if I don't have a new bed for them. But ! have never had luck growing any of them from a packet of seed.
I went to a lecture at Olbrich Gardens last spring and they spoke of these coneflowers not being true from seed. Yes, you will get a coneflower, but no, you won't get the coneflower that you bought and the new seedlings may 'agressive' your cute orange ones out. By year three of letting it go to seed, the picture showed NONE of the original.
Coneflowers themselves, seem to ressed on their own. They are tricky to start from seed, which I find very interesting...
Yes you are correct about the seeds being untrue, for sure on the Terra Nova ones that I know are propagated vegatatively. I did try seeding some Pixie Meadowbright - just to see if they would even germinate. I thought I looked for seeds on Razz and didn't even find any.
Unfortunately, Home Depot had coneflowers this morning when I stopped by. I don't recall seeing them there before. They had harvest moon, and sundown outside the garden center for eleven dollars and change. Inside, I found Summer Sky for under $8 each. Out of guilt, I had to buy several pots of Summer Sky.
"One of the ways to pick from the multitude of choices is to choose if you prefer the normal coneflowered down-angled petals or the petals that go out, like a regular daisy.
As it happens, I prefer the down-facing petals because I look across at my garden and having them all on the same plane makes them sort of disappear. The downfacing petals actually give me more flower to view. (I also look across from a seated position on my patio, but the same thing applies.)
If you typically are standing or walking as you view them from above, you would probably prefer the outfacing petals."
Now, I understand what you were talking about. Looking at After Midnight and my other coneflowers together, I can see how the flat petals of After Midnight can really only be appreciated when you are standing near them, and looking down. The drooping petals of the other coneflowers allow you to see the whole flower from long distances away. I really prefer the drooping petals more.
Thanks -- I am all cleaned up and thinking about going to HD for Summer Sky as I type.
Glad the 'petal angle' post made sense. I'm not the best writer (or talker, either)
I had to look up 'After Midnight' because I am getting them all confused. Park Seed says it is only a foot tall (12" tall) and the photo does look like the petals angle downward. Is this the right photo and description of your plant? Maybe the petals will angle down after it's open for a while. (?) I grow relatively few of these, but the sunset coral ones have really stolen my heart.
My Prairie coneflowers are pretty tall, between 3-4 feet. And they do tend to sway over a bit, but I have them planted out by my trellis walkway so they have some support from the bamboo and wire there.
Suzy, I had to go out and look at my flower again. The petals are definitely flat. I'm attaching a picture.
It was just beginning to bloom when I bought it a few days ago. Perhaps, the petals aren't finished growing, and then they will begin to angle downward. The picture on the little information card does show a downward angle.
The card also says that it grows 15 - 22". One was probably just under two feet when I purchased it. The other is about one and a half, so it seems that Parks is off on the height. This is card identifies After Midnight as being from the Saul Brothers Big Sky Series.
Now that I am looking at it again, I bet that the petals aren't finished completely growing, and it will begin to get that classical droop that I love. I really like the black stem, and the darker color petals.
Oh, yeah, that's just a baby flower -- the cone isn't even up yet.
Interesting that the purchase card is so different from the Park's description -- I'm never sure about Park's. I've had good luck and bad luck with them.
I didn't get to HD; I decided Friday at rush hour wasn't the best time to go :)) But I'll look for 'After Midnight' when I go to see this color everyone is so crazy about...and the dark black stems.
MollyMc & Penne, It's interesting that you are noticing the stem diameter and supposedly strangth for the flowers to stand up. I have never had a coneflower flop, not ever. Not even the wild ones. (Once having said that, I have seen them floppy in other people's gardens, but it looks to me like they needed to be divided about 5 years ago. One stem flops and the plants are so congested that the others flop in a sort of chain reaction. ) I was wondering if you have had a different experience?
Ah, I got confused...I thought Penne was talking about your seedlings from post Post #3588473 -- but after re-reading, I see she was asking about that one toward the top of the thread.
Went to HD tonight -- nothing but dead plants and not a customer in the store. Their nursery & plant area is soooo sad. They have so many nearly dead hanging baskets for $29.99 and the saddest assortment of everything else for top dollar. Don't get me started on the Bellis.
Hi! Just had to share - I've been (patiently?) waiting to buy coneflowers locally - could not bring myself to pay $10.00 + shipping for a 3" pot from mailorder! FINALLY, our local Lowes got some in - they had Summer Sky & Sundown in quarts for under $8.00! So, I bought 5 - they are beautiful & very healthy looking! The buyer at our Lowes is WONDERFUL - she'll try to get in anything you want, and keeps up with trends & new cultivars! She was pretty much the first to start carrying perennials here - even the 'real' nurseries carried the "same ol' stuff" (YAWN!!) until about 2 years ago!!! I'm interested in Fragrant Angel, too, but want to know if everyone has had the same experience as bigcityal - about them not being more fragrant? Just beginning to get serious about gardening, and attracting bflies, so am gathering LOTS of info from you more experienced folks!! Thanks for being so eager to share! Samantha
Here's the first bloom on Summer Sky. I love the color. It reminds me of mangos. Mangos remind me of pina coladas - Mmmmm!
Sorry, it isn't straight. The sun was beating down, and I had to lean over so that my shadow wasn't in the picture. Naturally, I had just finished watering the bed so the grass was wet, and I was trying to avoid that also.
PGZ5 -- Take a look at the forecast. If the nights are in the 70s or 80s, you'll have more wilting and more trouble than if they are in the 60s. If your forecast is like ours, just wait until mid mnext week and I think you'll have better reults.
The Milkweed might be a goner because of the taproot. Depends on how long it's been growing. The longer it's been there in terms of seasons, the worse time it will have.
Either way, be sure to shade them every day...a big cardboard box is usually good.
Ah, the voice of experience. I tried to move my Russian Sage already and it wilted so bad, I ended up cutting most of it down. When/if it recovers, I'll move it when cool nights are forecast. Thanks suzy.
LOL! It's more the voice of the medical examiner/mortician. I have learned more from plants I've killed than just about anybody I know. I'm still learning, believe me; you just happen to have questions that I can answer, probably because you're also in the midwest and I know the plants you're talking about.
I love Coneflowers of any kind--hybrid, native prairie, anything--but I, too, was disappointed with most of the 'Big Sky' series (Sundown, Sunset etc...). Though very healthy when I purchased them, mine did not adjust well to being out of the pot and never bloomed with such vivid colors again. Most did not make it over the winter--out of six, I lost three completely, two came up and are doing well, and one has come up very slowly and is quite small. I have to say, I agree with those who don't like the fact that the blooms on these hybrids seem to wash out quickly...
I also thought Coneflowers were "true" perennials...until I attended a local lecture and discovered that they really only live about 3 years. They do reseed themselves, but thats small consolation when you are in love with one of the hybrids such as the 'Big Sky' series...
Last, but not least, I have also read recently of several gardners who grow them in the shade. The key, they say, is to start them from seed or as very small, young plants IN THE SHADE. Not sure if this would work for more northern climates, but for eveyone with a reasonable length growing season, its worth a try. I've got some 'White Swan' in filtered light (under a Maple tree), and they are blooming...
I just bought an After Midnight. I bought two early on and planted them in a large pot on my balcony. But we had killer winds which dried both out badly. I was hoping to be three to replace them, but could only afford one at this stage of the game. Hope the winds have settled down for the summer. And I can't wait to see them bloom.
Those are pretty, Makshi! You can really see the pink interior and the peachy tips of the flowers in your photo. And the plants must have an iron constitution, because I *know* what you're weather is like now, and it ain't pretty!
Yes, I have ben using "gray water" too, Makshi, even though we aren't restricted as much as you are.
Hey! I found the Summer Sky coneflower and it was $19.99!!! Are you peeps paying that kind of money for these things? Not sure I can part with a $20.00 bill for a conflower that may or may not fade to regular coneflower purple as it ages. I walked away from it, but they had 6 so I figure I can go back if you tell me it is absolutely worth it and theflowers fade to an attractibe color...a photo of the faded flowers would help.
You know those plant ring supports one of you had in a picture early on? Another way to accomplish that same thing CHEAPER is to buy some of the little garden "fencing" that comes in sections and is connected. Disconnect and bend it in a circle and reattach to itself. I've had good luck with that at my previous house. I do not have enough here to worry about yet!
Hmm, where did you get them Makshi? I think I bought one for $16.95, but it was really large. I don't really need any more Sundaow, now I want Summer Sky. Errr I think it is Summer Sky, I am getting my seasons and times of day all confused ;)
Dale - I could drive there in an hour+ Never been to their store though, the plants I ordered from them were OK - less risky than Wayside at least.
I went to a seller in Madison that had all those plus a lot.
Randolph is a lot closer than Madison, hope Madison is cheaper. I grew up in Mpls. I shopped Bachman's.
I never trusted Wayside, too slick, too expensive. I get my Northern plants from VanBourgondien, they are flaky, but cheap. I got 100 coneflowers for $122 plus shipping from their wholesale catalog. Good sized plants (80%) Their photo showed pink, white, yellow and sunset colors, but, having done business with them for years I knew they would all be pink or white (and I was right). About 90 survived and grew. Not a bad deal.
PS BigCityAl (misnomer) you live in the sticks :-)
Suzy, keep trying Lowe's and Home Depot. I know that sometimes everything there is dead, but if you luck out on the day that plants arrive, you can get a really good buy. These are the largest coneflowers that I bought, and the least expensive. If they aren't conviniently located, then find out who is in charge of the nursery department, make friends, and keep following up by phone. Summer Sky was almost twice as much in my local nursery than it was at Home Depot.
By the way, After Midnight's cone has popped, but the petals still aren't angling downward as much as the other coneflowers. I still love the color, and the dark stem.
Just a suggestion to all you coneheads, take two pictures when shooting your cones, the close up and then step back 10 feet. I am wondering what these plants look like, how tall, how much sun, what the rest of your garden looks like etc. Thanks.
Al, I love that Goldilocks Rudbeckia!!! Did you start it from seed? If so, where did the seed come from? The reason I ask is because I might aquire some in a swap or trade and I wondered if it would come true.
Here is Rudbeckia hirta 'Moreno' from commercial seed.
Rudbeckia fulgida fulgida is the only coneflower that returns as a true perennial and it will reseed itself here in this part of FL. I have other coneflowers, some live for awhile, but, never reseed. No winter chill.
For me getting down is no problem, getting back up takes more time than it did 30 years ago.
A tip - focus your camera at eye level (framing the shot) and then hold the camera around knee level by bending over a little, try to point it in the same direction and angle as when you framed it, a challenge to do.
Good idea, Dale. Sometimes I do that with scenery pics. First I look at the scene, then just point the camera without using the LCD screen, and they turn out great. The trick will be to get the camera down where it can do some good. I'll bet practice helps.
What is the tall blue flower in your landscape picture of June 21? It is beautiful!!
I keep telling myself to be patient. I have only been here 10 months and I have had to fill in pits, rake up white rock and pull up plastic. My funds have been very limited and I've been out of town a LOT to boot!! I will have a mature, full flower bed someday in the future! I'm just slowly trying to build it up from scatch. Seeing so many beautiful mature landscapes can be enjoyable and envy-making at the same time!! LOL... please keep posting those gorgeous pictures!
Pat, Those are Batchelor Buttons. Centaurea cyanus. These are probably Blue Boy or Blue Diadem...the ones that are 30-36" tall. I also grow the 12" ones and the prostrate ones. I wish there were a 18-24" cornflower blue one, but if there is, I can't find it.
They fall over (as you can sort of see in the photo) partly because they are top heavy, but also the finches (birds) land on the stems to get to the seeds and sort of pull them over.
I'm happy to save you seed & send it on if you're in the address exchange.
Illoquin & BigCityAl,
thanks to both of you. Al, I asked you about the bachelor buttons and Illoquin about the pink flowers. I thought they were bachelor buttons but they looked SO GOOD and generally I have seen them looking ragged and nasty.. LOL.. I guess the trick is having lots of other stuff around and in front of it to hide the plant so only the blooms show!
If you have some spare seeds for the bachelor buttons that would great! Thank you so much.
I'll have to look up the monarda, I am not familiar with it.
I just got Kim's Knee High, I was looking at some of the others, but I'm not convinced they are hardy to zone 5b, and I refuse to pay $20. Even the rose I got in the gallon container was 11.50 (half off - it was discontinued)
What!? Why are yours $20 a pot?! I just came from the garden center and they seemed to be in the $14. range for 1 gallon new hybrids!...(Of course, I'm still too cheap for that price! I would never make it in NH!!) I did buy 2 big ruby stars(?) for $4 each, though.
So, here is my idea--purchase one plant each of all the new hybrids and then take cuttings now to make new ones for next year. Has anyone tried this? (Sorry, if I've already asked you!--I have a new book on propagation and its given me all kinds of ideas!)
Tabasco -- I think there is a single plant for each coneflower itself You have to look very closely). If you thoroughly wet the soil and the surrounding soil, I think you can just firmly tug on a flower (down low) and the whole bitty plant will come up, roots and all. As an alternate, you can take your gallon plant and look at it and see if you don't see about 5 little bitty plants at the base. You may or may not need knife. I think if you massage the soil ball, you will find they will come apart.
Surely that's not what youmean by stem cuttings, right? How would you do it? How does your book say to do it?
Has anyone's razzamatazz begun to bloom yet? I planted three in early spring - one has completely disappeared. The other two aren't growing very quickly. They don't look nearly as robust as my other echinacea. Even the ones that I started from seed have shown a lot more growth. These are the only ones not blooming.
Of course, I only know enough to be dangerous on this propagation topic, Illoquin! I meant I would cut secondary branches and stick them in rooting medium, soil, or something, depending on anyone's recommendation.
The lady at the garden center did say that there were some baby plants at the base of the main stems that I could separate if I were careful...I may try that after I have a gin & tonic (helps to steady my hand in these delicate surgeries!)
Tabasco, Yeah, except Echinacea doesn't have secondary branches (as far as I've ever seen) It has basal leaves with a bare nekked stem that comes up with a bloom at the top. The stem has no leaves. If that stems throws roots, I'd be pretty surprised (even though I know it is supposed to be propagated that way) How many cone flowers have you ever had in a vase, and how many rooted?
Al, I've seen several tissue culture demonstrations and it is all very straightforward with the same steps. I went to the one in Michigan. The key is cleanliness and sterility. Beyond that, anybody can do it. Hahaha not quite. Each plant has a growth hormone and vitamins which are plant specific and I'm pretty sure you have a heck of a lot better percentage if you have those nutrients. I was even given some test tubes, fully sealed and ready to go, to take home and managed to contaminate them before I was able to decant them.
Went out to check on my Coneflowers to see if they had basal shoots or whatever--'prairie splendour' has basal shoots as does 'paradoxa'. My 'rubinstern' (ruby star) has side shoots, though, so maybe I could try some cuttings from that. I think 'ruby giant' has side shoots too.
Wayside Gardens has some nice offerings too, but, the are very expensive at $10-15 for a 3 inch pot. I guess if you are a true Conehead and have money to spend, they are worthwhile to get for the collection.
I ordered Tiki Torch this spring, but the supplier to the place I bought it from never sent the plants because they weren't ready. I went ahead an cancelled my orderbecause it would have been a 1 3/4" x 4" bullet liner for $27.95 including shipping and handling. I was expecting at least a gallon pot for that price, so you can imagine...
Dale, I suppose you have already got rid of all those dump flowers. If not, this girl would love to have some too. I've always loved them but just this year purchased some. Crossing my fingers. Thanks.
I bought Fatal Attraction from park whole sale growers site for $3.89 a few weeks ago.This was the only cone they had on this clearance site this year.The site is now closed down but it is a good idea to bookmark it. www.parkwholesalegrowers.com They usually put it up at the end of the Spring season.This year it was June.Last year I bought several cones and they are all doing well.
I'm not convinced that Tiki Torch will be that different. I have Sunrise, Sundown, Sunset, After Midnight, Twilight, Summer Sky, Harvest Moon, Fragrant Angel, White Swan, Rubinstern and the Green Eyes/Kim's Knee High.
Would like to get a Primmadonna and one of the really tall purples for the back of the border. I just can't make up my mind which one!!!!!
A tip for finding plants is to find out what day they recieve plants at the particular store. The Lowes in Avon Indiana gets the on thursday.
Big city al - sorry to butt in but, I think you still have mango meadwobrite...
I have both and both have survived so far...Here is the Orange meadowbrite next to the Mango (not the best shot) The Orange is just about my favorite echinacea (i like the skinny droopy ones).
I've been NOT watching this thread because initially, I didn't like coneflowers. It's not a color I like, they look a little weedy before they make buds, and I really don't like the down drooping petals thing. No birds ever ate our leftover cones either. But I think I'm ready now, either to wintersow some next year or buy some or trade or whatever. Which are the most reliably short coneflowers? Pixies Knee-hi? Or is that Kim's Knee-Hi? Meadowbrite? I just have an extremely limited amount of space. I'll have to rip out the old boring down drooping enormous one. Please advise, oh ye holy coneheads!
Carriel-- I have to say, I've just been converted into the coneflower camp, too. I think when I read and witnessed how attracted the butterflies were to them--that was my 'epiphany'! Before that, strictly rudbeckias in my garden!
What I found initially off-putting was the weird (to me) acid pink color with the orange seed center (what's that called?) and the fact that they are ubiquitous in every August garden in Ohio. But now I've grown accustomed to their color and, in fact, I'm buying all the different pinkish ones! (There's no accounting for taste, is there?!) LOL
Today I purchased more Ruby Giants and Ruby Star (Rubinstern). I already have a few other pinks and some of the Saul hybrids. They are all on sale at our garden centers starting today, so by week's end, I may report a few more!
I wish I could grow 'Ruby Giant' from seed. Does anyone know if that is possible?
Love all the pics of the Coneflowers here. With all the Echinacea plant material posted on DG we should be on the lookout for some new fancy strains to introduce from our gardens!
Thanks for posting all the pics and the good info!
Good for you!!!!!!! Joining the coneheads :^)))) I would say that Kim's Knee High should be small enough for you. About dwarf in size and a reliable bloomer. My Kim's bloomed, rested, and now is back blooming again.
Anyone here know? That cold spell the seeds need...is 12 degrees for 4 hours cold enough>
Hi all you conehead experts! I have a question about pruning older flowers to keep the plant blooming. How long or often can I do this and still keep the plant strong and have some heads left for the birds in the fall? Ok here is the dumb question- When I cut off older blooms will the "cone "still have seeds in it if I let them dry?
There are so many wonderful photos of individual plants and gardens in this thread.
I will admit it...I don't really like Coneflowers (don't shoot rocks at me everyone *lol*) but I THINK I may have one coming up in my garden somehow. I have been racking my brain over and over wondering how it got there as I don't remember planting it.
The only 2 Coneflowers I like are Razzmatazz and the Doppleganger.
I think it was 2 years ago I wintersowed some of the Doppleganger seeds but assumed none of them made it as I didn't have any last year. I ALMOST pulled this as a weed but then I didn't recognize what kind of weed it was so I left it there.
Can all you Coneflower experts give me some advice as to whether or not you think this is a Coneflower? If so, does it look like it could be the Doppleganger? I have no idea how this got in my flower bed otherwise as I don't have Coneflowers in my bed at all...love how mother nature works...amazes me daily :)
Why would you have flowers you do NOT like? Because they make good contrast? or???? If I don't like it, I don't keep it!!! Well... I guess that is not quite true. When we moved here there were 2 plants I do not like but since my husband does like those 2, I would not remove them. Also, since I'm starting from scratch, I figured I needed all the plants I could get!
'Twilight' is one of my garden favorites. It really has a different color in my yard than the other orangish ones. I'd have to disagree on 'Sundown', I have three plants and they all look wonderful. The form is consistent. I think from purples, to yellows to whites, they all fade when they are on their way out. I clip them off and they keep coming.
'Green Envy' is one I can't wait to get!
I still have to say that Razzmatazz and Doppleganger are my 2 favorites and that trying to find Razzmatazz seeds of either is next to impossible so I won't have them in my garden for a while :( The one that IS growing in the garden really hasn't changed much the past couple of days but we have been getting alot of rain. Once the sun comes out I'm sure things in the garden will "move along"
I know what you mean, Nanny. I bought 'Sunrise' this year and I didn't like it when it bloomed. Then I saw a photo from Magnolialover http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3702431 and I thought, "Hey, mine doesn't look like that!". Sure enough, a few flowers later and that's what mine looked like, so now I am a happy camper.
Bigcity, I'm just hoping to get that one in the garden, sooner than later. Did you get yours at Schroeders? Really, really gorgeous. (Have I confessed yet to be a cone crazy?) Your coneflowers are wonderful, bigcity.
Hey Al, did I read somewhere that Ruby Giant is your fave? or what is your fave?
Kim, don't feel bad about not liking echies. For a while I didn't like them either. Kept dying while attempting to grow them from seeds or kept rotting at the base when I bought plants.
I finally got my hand on some good White Swans and I'm back in love. I have a noid, white swan, Kim's Knee high and a peach one but I can never remember its name.
Do you have both "After Midnight" and "Raspberry Tart"? If so, how alike are they? The 'After Midnight" that I've seen looks like it has larger flowers than 'R. Tart"? I've got R. Tart but I'm intrigued with 'After Midnight' if it really is that dark and has larger flowers. My Tart is doing fine. The first flower wasn't that great but it's held for a couple of weeks and now I've got several open. These later blooms are more raspberry than the first one was, but the plant and flowers are still a nice compact size.
Yes, so far After Midnght is only average dark I will say. This year Primadonna Rose has been the biggest dark one I have. Rasberry Tart is small and certainly more a magenta color. I'll get some new pics for you tomorrow.
I ended up getting several new varieties this year... Goldilocks, which is really full and is doing well, a pale lemon yellow one which surprisingly is blooming like crazy, orange meadowbrite, the double decker one (which of course didn't double yet this year), another white swan, and a green wizard. I thought that would be a little showier, but the one "bloom" on it isn't really that exciting yet :o) I must be patient! So yes, in answer to the thread, I have been cone crazy this year! Something I never thought I would do!
I can't say that I am a "conehead" yet...*lol* but I sure do LOVE the looks of some of the pictures you have all posted!
I would LOVE to try Razzmatazz, Pink Double Delight, Green Eyes, Green Envy and Doppleganger someday so as you can see, my list is slowly growing...I could be easily addicted *lol*
I have enjoyed everyones pictures so much and at first didn't think I like Coneflowers but I'm beginning to see the beauty in them (thanks to Al *lol*).
Here is an updated picture of the one I must have winter sown 2 years ago. Not familiar with the foliage, I ALMOST pulled it as a weed and have watched it daily since it put buds on.
What do you think Al?
Well thank you VERY much. Yes, I just took that picture this morning so it is JUST starting out. It' looks like there may be 3-4 flowers. IF I get any seeds from it, you are more than welcome try some. I will probably try to winter sow some more this winter as hubby is digging me a new bed this weekend :)
Al, I spoke with one of the Flower Factory Folks, and they assure me 'Spinning Top' is NOT their own hybid and that most of the coneflowers they have, come from Darwin and the Netherlands. I may be able to get more info, if I do, I'll post it here ;)
Hello, I posted this in the propagation forum. But have had no response and the Magnus are looking worse by the day.
"The gophers got my cone flowers. I need some advice on an attempt to save them. There is a few little nubs of roots left. I plan on cutting the plant way back. What I'm wondering is if I can mar the stem, apply rooting hormone and plant deeper, covering the stem with soil as well. I hope this makes sense."
Do echies have crowns or can they produce roots along their stems like a tomato?
Any ideas to save would be much appreciated. They are still rather expensive for me to purchase locally and would really like to save these if possible.
I wanted to post a picture here just to let everyone know that in my garden the various coneflowers are real butterfly magnets. They seem to be favoring the original echinacea magnus, but I have seen them on white swan, summer sky, kim's knees, kim;s mophead and after midnight as well. I am going to post some pictures on the butterfly section - nothing elaborate, so don't get too excited. :)
Ok, Ok, Ok!!! I finally gave in and bought two more coneflowers yesterday. I got Sunset and Harvest Moon. I have no idea where they're going to be planted, but after following this thread for so long..it must be your fault;-)
If confession is good for the soul, then I need to get over to the Heuchera forum, too! Ahhhh!
Hey Al, ck out this tall echie I found yesterday. I keep forgetting the name but I will come back and edit the post later. Isn't that fab? I need to find a shortie and plant it in front tall one. wouldn't that be cute?
Al, (and any of you other experienced coneflower growers)
This is an updated picture of my one and only coneflower.
In your opinion, does this look like Doppleganger in it's first year of bloom? I have read that it takes a year before it doubles but can't decide if this is it or not.
Just a lurker here, my walk between the garage and house is a 'cone-head' haven! These have been spreading for about 15 years if they are in the way I pull them out, there are always more coming on. The birds do love the seed heads.
Tried planting a white one last year but had nicotiana sysvestri planted in the same area and it was overwhelmed by the nicotiana! You all have tempted me to find some of the yellow/orange cone flowers. I simply love them.
Thanks for letting me but in. Thank you for all the lovely pictures!! What an addiction.
Kim - Can't really say. You might get a flower somewhere during the year where it would be double or at least start to double that you could tell it's Doppleganger from - otherwise it's still a waiting game.
Al, does Razzmatazz look "right" the first year or will I have to wait for the second year. I found the plants in my garden - I had been concerned before that they weren't going to make it. I'm still waiting for buds to form though.
I would LOVE to have a razzmatazz someday. I have been admiring it on google over and over again. I am just learning about coneflowers and I think that is my absolute favorite (although I TRULY loved Al's with the green eyes. That picture really captivated me :)...thanks Al).
I am going to watch the next 3 flowers closely and if one doubles I'll post a pic.
I think a while back someone asked about the difference between Ruby Giant and Magnus. I unwittingly bought both last year and planted them next to each other. I figured Ruby Giant would be a darker color, and not that it was an improved, larger "Magnus". I also thought they would get more sun than they do in this spot, so they both lean a little. I bought a 1 gallon "Magnus" and a 4" Ruby Giant last year, and here they are together this year. Ruby Giant is on the right.
I think that "Magnus" is a couple of inches shorter and it's been a little slower to bloom. Ruby Giant's flowers might be a little larger, as well. But, I was definitely a little bit disappointed that they looked so much the same. I want to add "After Midnight" for more variety.
Susybell, I have After midnight and love the color, even DH commented on how pretty it is. But, it is a dwarf one so needs to be down in front. I missed that part when I ordered it and had to change my grouping I had planned!!
I still need to get a Magnus! I can't believe I don't have one yet!!! lol
Just re-found this thread! Was obsessed over at the annuals forum with zinnias and now I see I have lots of pretty coneflower pics to catch up with!
Joyous--your walkway is splendid! I bet it puts you in a happy mood, and the butterflies, too! And, penne, would love to see more of your plant combinations! You have a wonderful color scheme going there! Can I find more on the cottage garden forum ? (you know I your beautiful pics with the butterflies, too)
Makes me want to go out and scout the end of season sales for more coneflowers and surely blow my plant budget! which brings me to my next question--
----about using rooting homones to start echie cuttings-- has anyone tried propagation from cuttings this summer? I am dying to give it a go but don't have the skills or confidence to do it.
Also, does anyone know off hand who supplies the best echinacea seed? I have found seeds listed on the internet for these named strains: 'bravado', 'primadonna rose', 'bright star'. (Is 'magnus' available by seed?) Then there are the prairie wildflowers available by seed such as pallida, fulgida and some of the others...but right now these are a bit too natural for my garden spaces. (I would love to have one of those 'natural gardens' that are so popular now,though.)
So please tell--do you have any advice on success with seed sowing echinaceas? Or cuttings?
I'll have Magnus seed for you in about 3 weeks or so, Judy. I also have some Liatris you were looking for in the butterfly thread and the Golden Alexander (Latin name starts with a Z) seeds for you. 25 seeds of each as I recall.
Thanks, Tabasco. I think we do need that Fatal Attraction. I haven't looked in my local Home Depot. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll have it. I noticed Roots and Rhizomes has it for mail order but am not familiar with them...according to Garden Watchdog, their feedback isn't very positive. Let me know if you find a good place to order...I'll keep looking, too.
Rose - After Midnight came out after Fatal Attraction. For me FA has been a darker magenta color. Rasberry Tart is a small flower, but very bright rasberry color. Love Hope. Love Sunrise. Love Jade, but mine is still listed as in critical condition. Harvest Moon fades to look like Sunrise pretty fast and is not as reliable. Summer Sky I saw blooming a lot in stores and it looks like a faded Sundown or Twilightish so I think I can skip that one.
For those of you that haven't seen this beauty, let me refresh your memory... http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3728788
I get my enabling trait from the lily forum. You don't want to go there, especially with ordering season upon us. Just don't do it. (Remember, you were warned)
Not Green Envy, the Flower Factory does not. Maybe next... year, yeah, yeah. Who can wait that long?? I think with coneflowers I get me 'right now' fix, yes with my lilies I must plant in the fall, constantly drool over the pictures all winter and spring, then, yes, summer comes and the dream is realized. So, it is a balancing act and the coneflowers lose. They must be in my garden blooming the day Al posts them.
So Al...weren't you leaving for vacation soon??? Lol!
(p.s.the lily bulbs do best planted in the fall or early spring. It's a lot different than say, a 4 inch pot of plant that needs to be established before winter here.)
Maxine, you covet quietly, while I roar.
rosethyme, wonder on over to the lily forum sometime, I don't blame you for wanting to save money for food ;) But, so you know,there live a lot of enablers over there, but it's one of the kindest bunches of people around.
Once in a while Jungs will get some late surprises, but, if they do, it won't be $4, you can bet on that. 'Green Envy' looks to be quite the unique coneflower and it is gonna drive me nuts until I get it. It could be a long winter...
I love Echinacea 'All that Jazz'. Its a deep pink conefower with fluted leaves. I love the play with words... This flower is new this year, and is breeded by hybridizer Kevin Hurd at Walters Gardens, Inc.
I agree with linuxogre, Echinacea 'Prairie Splender' also makes my favorites list. Its best feature is the fact that it can start blooming up to 2 weeks early than other Echinaceas and also has an extended flowering period into fall. I love long blooming perennials!
My favorite white Echinacea is 'Virgin'. This plant is selected by the grower, breeder and landscape designer Piet Oudolf out of the Netherlands. I love his landscape designs, so I know his breeding has got to be spectacular! Its got a great flowering performance, the the flowers of fragrant. One of my favorite features about this plant is that it doesn't require staking!
And here is the last one I'm going to mention of my favorites (of course there is so many more, I guess I am cone crazy!) Echinacea 'Crazy Pink' Its the first one of a new series from the Saul Brothers (they're other series of course being Sundown, Sunset, After Midnight, etc.)
Crazy Pink is called crazy because its a crazy bloomer. At a year old the plant can have 100 blooms! Its slightly fragrant and stays compact in a pot. I can't wait to see what else is coming up in this collection!
Well holy cow Christa - do you have some connection with Walters Gardens? I haven't seen or heard of any of those. Most excellent. I have seen a fluted shaped one from Jmorth's collection. Piet Uodolf works with Plantspotters , is that one of theirs?
OK, Christabelle! Now that the cat's out of the bag and we know you're with Walter's you're going to have to give us all a tour when we get up there!! LOL (I'm getting in my car now.) LOL In any case, please keep posting about your perennials. We appreciate good information and we will even let you post photos! (Your pics are wonderful) (-:
I just went out to five garden center/nurseries today to look for coneflowers--now that I'm learning so much about them! Found all the usual suspects, but no 'Fatal Attraction'! Saw 'green envy' for $5. or less at Greenfield Plant Farm. I'm so glad I purchased a few Prairie Splendours earlier this summer. I wanted an early bloomer Echie, so now I already have one!
I hadn't heard of Oudulf's 'Virgin', either, and I was just on the Plantspotters website...'Virgin' is very pretty along with all the others you posted. BTW your website "Perennial Resources" is very interesting, too. I liked the article about monochromatic colors and the photos especially. No coneflowers in the collage, though!
Al, did you know Christobelle was with Walter's because of the Zeeland address?
Let's see some more pics, everybody! I'm addicted!
p.s. saw some spectacular Zinnias, too, today. And rudbeckias, at the nurseries---and thought of all of you! t.
Yes, we need Tiki Torch. And that Virgin is to die for! I went to Lowe's and Home Depot today just to see if they had any Coneflowers. They don't even name them...just labeled purple coneflower! Lowe's had a bunch of Magnus. I felt guilty not rescuing a couple because the pots were so dried out. :(
Your pictures are beautiful. I especially like Virgin and Crazy Pink. When can we expect to see these in the nurseries for common people. Or can you ship them to us early for reviewing purposes?! :)
Which one is Maya? I think sunrise is right... but then I am wrong about a light orange one I have with thin petals! I should have planted them with their tags... I figured I would remember... but I should know me by now... my memory is terrible! - But they are all well and healthy and I am hoping for a prolific reseeding next year!
No, I ordered these from Bluestone. I got the wrong butterfly bush too. I really like the color of the one they sent, but I ordered Blue Nanho which is small and the one I got is going to be bigger I think, so won't work in the space I put it in.
I'll try tyo get a better pic!!! Those are REALLY BAD!!!!
My self sown purple coneflowers are amazing me with their variability. They start out a very pale green, like green envy, then turn a bright magenta, eventually aging to pink and pale pink. They sometimes have thin spindly down facing petals, sometimes robust dish like arrangements, etc.
I have been able to select my rudbeckias for the deep browns and weird shaped petals by just cutting off the ones that I am not fond of before they go to seed.
Maybe I will try a little selection of favorites with the coneflowers too.
I keep thinking "this thread is too long - we should start a new one", but I like this old one, so forget I said anything. Christa, when you say "Virgin' doesn't need staking, are you saying it's strong or short. Why do the fragrant ones always seem to be white, or am i wrong about that?
we have huge tall coneflowers in the back - no idea what name - and ordinary old ones in the front plus another one that I can't identify but I like. Once I get these computers straightened out I'll try to take a pic.
For anyone interested in northern Virginia, Merrifields has plenty of coneflowers. I spotted coco lime, sundown, after midnight, Christabelle's pink double delight, summer sky, sunrise, magnus, Kim's knee, Kim's mophead, white swan, and ruby giant. There were probably more than that, but I can't remember them all.
I was able to compare ruby giant and magnus. Ruby didn't look any taller than magnus, but the flowers were much larger.
carrie, I was just thinking how many here are cone crazy...looky, looky. Seems like there is enough diversity among coneflowers to warrant a forum. This thread has been a whole lot of fun, don't you think so??
I would love to give you a tour of our facilities! Come stop by anytime. Our display gardens are at their peak right now, they're looking beautiful!
In answer to your question about Virgin, it is supposedly both short and strong, that's why it doesn't need staking. But I don't want to promise that because in my experience some years Echinaceas that supposedly don't need staking does! Maybe it depends on the weather. It also does seem like white Echinaceas are fragrant. I would guess it has something to do with the breeding, in the past better varieties that have come out of new hybrids seem to lack in fragrant. Now breeders are trying to bring the fragrance back.
I'm going to post to the forum now, great suggestion.
The more I hear I don't think that I actually have Ruby Giant. It's 6" taller than my Magnus, bloomed sooner, is a good grower, but the flowers just aren't really any bigger but the color is the same. Oh well...
I saw Pink Double Delight today! That is one cute coneflower! The flowers are the same size as coconut lime but they're a really good pink. Basically they look exactly like Coconut Lime in pink (or is it really the other way around?) The ones I saw were in gallon sized pots. The plants were probably 14-18in tall (didn't have a tape measure with me, lol)
The echinacea sport came from a garden planted for my mother 13 years ago. The plot was sown with Purple Coneflower seeds I think from the Northrup King seed co. About 5 years ago I noted the aberration and transplanted the sport (divided into 3 plants) into my garden where it now grows with some other, regular Echinaceas.
I think my favorite so far, and i have just about everyone sold is echinacea "green envy" along with another new variety, called "Elton's Knight". They are expensive, but well worth the money. I am posting a picture of a "green envy" blossoming in my yard right now.
Yeah, the Flower Factory is probably the largest retailer of plants in the midwest, as far as number of varieties of plants. It's in rural Stoughton, Wi. They don't mail order, but people from all over the place make trips to this place, I've seen them there buying hundreds upon hundreds of dollars worth of plants. People from Michigan, Iowa, Minnesota, South Dakota,Illinois,Missouri. It's a neat place in the country, with nice gardens and ponds, showcasing their plants.
Maybe this is more than you wanted to know, grampapa.
Stop it with those great shots of 'Green Envy' why don't you? Lol!
If only the Flower Factory had that one right now, I'd buzz on over...
Al, I spoke with Dave today , from the Flower Factory. Their son snagged me as I walked by at the Farmers Market. As it turns out 'Spinning Top' is their own cultivar, from about 6 years ago, before the coneflower breeding went hog wild. He also said, because of the many, many cone varieties they carry, they may not be able to carry it for much longer. The reason? They don't keep this cultivar separated, so it is subject to open pollination, which, with all they have out there now, could definitely impact the seed. Hope that clears up the mystery.
I see they have 'Coconut Lime' there still available, and they had 'Green Envy' early in the season. How was I to know that one would turn out so cute? Well, now they are all out.
I am going to give these guys 1 more year but my first impression...SOMETHING likes them too much in my garden and it's not Japanese Beetles. There are black moths all over it most of the time and some kind or beetle that seems to always be in 2's piggybacked *lol*
If there were a forum, would one thread be about fragrant cones and another about pale colored cones and another about coneflower garden enemies? It seems like the world is "cone-crazy" - will it be this way next year?
Kim - your black moth looks like a skipper(butterfly) not sure what else is eating them.
Nanny - yes you are a bit off yet. Sometimes my camera washes out/together bright colors. I took a photo of Primadonna White today and edited a version of it to show how you can improve photos that way. The edited version in on the right ;)
I hope this is not hijacking this thread, but I am so glad to have the coneflowers that I inherited from my DD because of their beauty and because of the bees. I heard a garden expert on a Dayton radio station answer a call in about the lack of bees this summer. He said "Look at the landscaping in your neighborhood, how many flowers are in that landscaping? Probably about 80% of homes just landscape with shrubs and trees only" He said, if you want to see bees plant coneflowers and other bee friendly flowers. Boy was he right. Yippee.
My Sweet Husband knows I'm a chicken about bees, wasps and other flying things. He can NOT figure out why I would purposefully grow plants that I know will attract bees! I frequent this thread but do not have any pictures to add ;-( . Maybe next year I'll be a little more on the ball. I got hooked on coneflowers with the first common ol' purple ones and have been amazed at the all the variety available now!
Thank you all for posting your beautiful flowers. It's been pleasure to lurk on your thread and view your amazing flowers!
Wasps are beneficial and necessary too. The vast majority of wasps don't sting people anyway. Lots of wasps are pollinators. Here's a blurb from wikipedia:
"Wasps are critically important in natural biocontrol. Almost every pest insect species has a wasp species that is a predator or parasite upon it. Parasitic wasps are also increasingly used in agricultural pest control as they have little impact on crops. Wasps also constitute an important part of the food chain."
didn't mean to come down so hard on wasps, it's just that last year my husband sustained approx. 150 wasp stings in a single incident! The stings hurt, itch, etc, for as long as two weeks! The same wasp can, for instance, get stuck under your shirt and bite you over and over again...
If I can figure out how to do it with this *n*e*w* computer, and I manage to download one of the pix I took of it, could someone ID my mystery coneflower for me? Or do we now have a coneflower forum and that's where I should go?
my coneflowers center still haven't turned brown...i was wanting them to seed...but in the mean time it is my understanding that if i cut them off i may get more blooms on the current plants...; so, is it a tradeoff...seeds or more blooms??
Yes - to a degree. I have seen slow reblooming from deadheading. I usually gamble and collect them at the end of the year, the gamble being that sometimes the heads don't ripen or they are smaller then.
Thanks everyone. I think I bought it last fall from someone (?) on eBay; it was not a seed. (Last year I thought I couldn't grow things from seeds.) After reading this thread, ALL the names sound familiar, lol. But I have the ordinary droopy coneflowers already, so I would have bought this with an eye towards a shorter stature, and non-droopy petals. I remember the guy from whom I bought them (there were more than one then!) added another, different one as a bonus, but it didn't fit into my plan so I traded it away. I'm voting for Fatal Attraction; I'm not much good after midnight myself, so why would i want a flower that has more fun than I do?
Sure, why not? Now that I know I can do it via wintersowing. But they have to be small ones. But if they come up with "Needs a Nap After Lunch" or "Sleepy By Seven" instead of all this "Fancy" and "Midnight" and even "sun" up or down or set. Maybe "Not-After-Sunset" from Saul, lol.
Carrie, that looks like After Midnight to me as well.
Unfortunately, I don't think that this is one you can grow from seeds. It seems that most of the new hybrids are sterile. I am hoping that they spread and grow quickly, because I would like to have more without shelling out more money.
I did see some seeds recently for ruby star at Jungseeds. I was surprised to see these because I thought that you could only find magnus, and white swan at most places.
That reminds me, didn't someone plant some seed from a hybrid that they bought off of Ebay or maybe from a friend. Just wondering if the seeds came true or reverted back to the parents. I have no idea where the post was - we didn't have a coneflower forum then!
It may have been in the first couple hundred post of this thread. (LOL)
tabasco, really interesting site. You do get around! I don't think I could make it up to their minimum order of 25 euros, but if you do order, will you get some for me please? (Baby swan white) (I hope you accept dollars...)
The hard part about Jelitto's site? Well, getting the minimum seeds together. Figuring out how many Euros makes the minimum. The way the website functions is awkward...LOL the graphics are amateurish (or is that that they are european/german graphics?) LOL, the print is too small. the photos are sort of hit or miss. they omit prices here and there.
I don't know...I just don't like Jelitto's set-up even though I think they probably have some of the best seeds. Some of these seed and plant sites have great arrangement, graphics, information and use-ability. Others are kind of awkward. I think that the fact that a big, old and esteemed company like Jelitto has so few user notes in Watchdog might say something, too.
Anyway, if I can think up enough seeds to buy from them, I will let you know and we can add in 'Baby White Swan' and some of the others!
I go to the index and look for plants I've heard of, LOL. The first arrangement by color was rather off-putting, I found. And for me, it didn't always go back one page when I hit back - don't know quite why. But some nice, new seeds I haven't heard of, which was nice!
Okay Carrie, I am dizzy with the play on words now and need some clarification. Do you mean "Baby" White Swan, or a White Swan baby? I have some White Swan's but too old now to be called baby's.
Aside from the time it takes for this thread to load, even for "Ultra Lite" access, seems like this thread may be dying a seasonal death. I only say this because when I walk out to look at my cones, they have all turned black and gone to seed. Would that be the case with all yall?
Before I do anything else, like cleaning up all the dead heads, I need a question answered.
I am in Zone 8b, where the ground never freezes but some of the nights in the winter can get down to 12, warming to 40-50's in the daytime with clear blue skies and sunshine all winter.
Will these cones self seed if I just take them and drop them in a barren area that I want to fill? Or must I vacate my refrigerator to store the gazillion in there for some indeterminate amount of time?
I'm sure you have figured out by now that I am a firm believer of self/free sowing perennials and annuals.
I won't neaten up my conebeds til I hear from yall.
I have asked Terry to move the thread and hope she will. I also started a new Coneflower Crazy thread over there in that forum. The old thread takes a while for me to load and I have UltraLite internet service.
I didn't go cone crazy last year, but I might this year. But only if my wacky neighbor will stop spraying roundup on my flowers along our common fenceline (Sigh...I seriously thought I had just lost my green thumb for perennials until his ex-wife told me what he's been doing for the past several years. Guess it's the gardener's version of 'Gaslight', eh?)
I have a customer who has a feud with her neighbor. He sprays ? over the fence and kills her grass and damages a hydrangea. He even went to her mom's grave and killed plants there. She's too big of a chicken to fight back.
His garden was featured on HGTV a few years ago, if that tells you anything. He has a lovely garden, with a very mature landscaping, although he doesn't have much in the way of flowers.
When he installed this low vinyl "picket" style fence between our properties several years ago, he and I talked about putting perennial beds on our respective sides of it. I did, he didn't. It's a longstanding weirdness on his side of the fence (literally and figuratively.) We've never quite figured it out, and probably never will ;o)
Ahhh, I probably shouldn't have mentioned this rather awkward situation, since he's not here to defend himself (as far as I know.)
But I have my eye on a collection of the newer Echinaceas...I'm just loathe to fork over $60-plus dollars for five plants if they're going to get chemically defoliated. I'm really tempted to buy one of those motion-activated sprinklers and set it up out there. (He's gotta be spraying at night, or when he knows I'm not around...otherwise I would have caught on sooner.)
The power company (a small local cooperative) came onto my property last year and sprayed foliage under the power lines, all along the frontage and 300 feet up the side.
They killed plants without concern as to what they were, flowers, food etc. This year I shall have that electric gate installed and they will have to call me to get in. Needless to say I will tell them what they can do with their herbicides.
I could go on and on about neighbors and the dogs they are walking...but I won't. I'm tired of the subject and there's nothing I can do about it.
SO...Is there a possiblilty of a cone flower co-op. I'd jump right in!
I love the colors, but sadly, they only seem to reach mediocrity in my care. They only get all afternoon sun or all morning sun. The only all day sun is the side yard where all the neighbors let their dogs poop. Is lack of sun my problem?
P.S. We were in a hundred year drought and temps were 105 for over a week this year.
3gardeners, Did you see the Coneflowers in the Perennial Coop Fairy1004 is doing in the Coop forum?
Then there are some bigger plants in the Classified Ads by Ella/Starlight. She doesn't say it, but the proceeds are going to a charity she works with in Alabama. (Older/retired gardeners helping disadvantaged youth with an eye toward scholarships.)
Last I looked, there weren't going to be any coneflowers, but she was still trying to work them in. I took the thread off my "watch" list. I'll check it out again. I'll also check out Starlight. Thanks!
Oh, do you? I value your oijnipn! That was meant to say opinion! I'm looking for cones that aren't quite so tall with respect to me (in my wheelchair). I felt dwarfed by our coneflowers last year. in fact, I was ready to tear them all up!
Why don't you try the dwarf coneflowers: kim's knees high, and kims mophead. Knee high is pink (typical mangus color), and mophead is white. I have both in my garden . There have been some previous discussions regarding the height. For some people they have grown taller than expected, but they should still be shorter than magnus.
There is also a new baby swan that I am growing this year from seed for the first time, so I don't have a lot of information on that one. I think that some of the newer hybrids are also shorter than magnus. After midnight isn't as tall as magnus.
This is a picture of knee high, purple fountain grass, cordyline, black eyed susans, red salvia, and gazania.
Very pretty! I wanted to try baby swan - somehow didn't get around to it this year (from seed). I also wanted to try pixie meadowbrite - first I need to make space by excavating the ones I have, filling in with something good (compost/dirt/not rubble) and then making a plan! I think Victor has warned me off knee-high - he calls it thigh-high, or something worse. x, C
I bought the baby swan seeds from a website. I have a few germinated so I cant wait to see how they look later this summer. They are supposed to be shorter than the White Swans. Google "baby swan seeds' if anyone is interested. I think it may be from Swallowtail seeds or Johnnys seeds.
The Yahoo coop group has Tiki Torch plugs this go around, so looks like I will finally be getting some. I had Tiki Torch on order last year, not "them", but ONE plant that with freight was $27.00! I was so happy to have found it, the pictures were so pretty and it was just what I wanted.
Then I realized the website didn't say anything about shipping, so I emailed them, and they said, oh, they were sorry, but the Tissue culture lab where they were getting them wouldn't have them ready for a couple months. So, they were selling me a gallon pot at $19.95 for a little PLUG that would be in the gallon pot, but not rooted. So I was paying a flat rate box of $8.95 for soilles mix in a pot with a little bitty plant they JUST received. Naturally, I cancelled the order, even though I wanted it a LOT.
I have Tiki Torch on order from GC. Also Green Envy, Pink Double Delight & Coconut Lime. I hope that's not where you ordered last year, Suzy. They should be easier to come by this year. I know the plants are smaller, but I have ordered before and everybody seems generally happy with them. Plus they were the only place I could find all 4. A lot of their echies are sold out now (including Tiki). wish I could have afforded more than 1 of each.
all I have now is Ruby Giant. It was gorgeous, but it kind of petered out last year. maybe it needs dividing? it was only 3 yrs old.
Yeah, I never heard of GC until Stacey's Coop. I missed out on Green Envy big time. I only have one-- Magnus, but I'm not in love with it. It also gets those worms/larvae that feed on the base of the cones. Not sure what they are, though.
A co-op is a method of making a group purchase of plants or any other gardening related item. These group purchases can allow you to buy at a reduced rate because of the volume of the purchase. You can go here to see the rules.