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Cameras and Photography: Canon Rebel XTi or Canon EOS 30D?

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ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

July 28, 2007
6:20 AM

Post #3788307

I'm doing it!! Gonna plunk down my life savings into a digital SLR and it is between these two cameras. I have read, and asked, and subsequently lean one direction and then the other!! Can you all help me? I want to take awesome macros of insects, etc, and spectacular shots of birds. Add big game shots to that list since I will be travelling to Africa soon, and that is the reason for my "ya gotta make up your mind NOW, idiot" quandery. I'll be buying the body only, and then adding quality lenses (I hear the kit lens is inferior). I'm planning on getting a 17-85 mm lens. I was also going to buy a 300 f4 lens with image stabilizer and a 1.4 extender. Then someone said I really should get a 100-400mm telephoto instead. Aaarrrggghhhhh!!!!!!!! I don't want to make any mistakes at this price. Please help...
JoanMN
Pine City, MN
(Zone 4a)

July 29, 2007
4:24 AM

Post #3791409

I have the XTi (its body is smaller and lighter than the D30). I think they both take awesome pictures. I got the XTi cause it was smaller, cheaper and has more MP's. I sitll wonder if I should have gotten the D30, but I LOVE my Rebel. I also have the 70-200mm F4.0L IS USM lens, with the 1.4 extender, it's a great combo. And I like my kit lens just fine, though lots of people say to get an zoom IS lens.
I think you will love either one. But the lenses really depend on what you want to use it for. Good luck!!
PanamonCreel
Celaya
Mexico
(Zone 10a)


July 29, 2007
10:53 AM

Post #3791783

If the use on your Africa trip is for Wildlife photography then I would say get the 100-400MM Tele Zoom lens but You'll most likely find out that in Wildlife photography one never has enough focal length :). A prime fixed focal length lens like the 300/f2.8 is faster and sharper then the zoom lens and would allow the use of an 2X teleconverter without loss of autofocus but the disadvantage is that you have to reposition yourself in order to get your subjects nicely framed.
linda_nc
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

July 31, 2007
4:03 PM

Post #3801070

While I've never been on a safari, I agree with PanamonCreel on the 100-400's versatility. It would also give you great focal length coverage with your 17-85. The 100-400 has a push/pull zoom mechanism that takes some getting used to.

If you want to take lots of macro shots, I'd recommend a Canon 100mm f/2.8 macro lens. Another option would be a 500D close-up filter with your 300 or 100-400 lens.

You might have to register to see the Canon forum, but here's a (somwhat heated) discussion on FredMiranda concerning an XTi vs. 20D purchase. The 30D is a minor upgrade to the 20D, so most comments will apply:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/556036
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

July 31, 2007
6:19 PM

Post #3801608

I think that IS is Image Stabilizer, but what is USM? And what is OL?
Will those extenders work with a 100-300 mm IS lens instead of getting a 100-400 mm for those long shots? Or are they only for fixed length lens? Do I know what I'm talking about? No. I took all these notes at a program given by a well-known pro here, and now I'm wondering what they all mean!!!! Aarrgghhh!!!!!!

Have I made this connection correctly? - The larger the aperture on the lens, the better, but therefore more expensive. Like 2.8 vs 4 or 5.6...
And that zoom lenses, though allowing greater versatility with the distance, lose some of the sharpness of fixed lens.

I thank you all for all of your help.
JoanMN
Pine City, MN
(Zone 4a)

July 31, 2007
6:50 PM

Post #3801730

I use a Kenko pro 1.4 extender on my 70-200 F4.0L IS USM lens, works great. USM is ultra sonic motor (I think).
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

July 31, 2007
6:59 PM

Post #3801763

Joan - Do you use that to shoot birds?
linda_nc
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

July 31, 2007
6:59 PM

Post #3801765

USM is Canon's mechanism for automatic focusing - Ultrasonic Motor (USM)
In what context was OL used?

The extenders only work with some lenses - a good reference can be found at bhphotovideo.com - search for the Canon 1.4 extender, then click the compatibility chart on the "features" tab.

You've got it ... the larger apertures let more light in and are considered "faster" - they allow you to shoot in lower light than "slower" lenses. A f/2.8 lens is considered a fast, while an f/5.6 is much slower.
You're also right that a fixed length lens will be sharper than a zoom, athough some high-end zooms are quite sharp.

I ran across this Canon lens FAQ site that might be helpful: http://photonotes.org/articles/beginner-faq/lenses.html

It is confusing, but hang in there! You are doing the right thing by plowing through to understand what will be the best setup for your shooting style.

PanamonCreel
Celaya
Mexico
(Zone 10a)


July 31, 2007
7:10 PM

Post #3801807

Yes, IS is Image stabilizer, USM stands for Ultrasonic Motor which is a fast Auto focusing motor used in the lens.
Don't know about OL.
For some abbreviations, terms, etc. look here http://photonotes.org/dictionary/

The Tele converters (extenders) can be used with most lenses but you may loose auto focusing ability.
In general You loose one F-Stop with a 1.4X and two f-Stops with 2X converters. So if you use a f4 lens with a 1.4X converter you would get a max aperture of f5.6 and with a 2X converter you'd get f8. Auto focus usually only works equal or below f5.6 so you would loose auto focus ability with a 2X converter on a f4 lens.

The larger the max. aperture (smaller the f number) the "faster" the lens since it "collects" more light but this also means that the lens is bigger, heavier and usually much more pricey than a lens with the same focal length but smaller max. aperture (higher f number). For quick approx. calculation take the focal length divided by the f number of the lens and you'll get the approx. diameter of the front lens element. So a 400mm f4 lens would have 400 / 4 = 100mm dia. front lens element (100mm/25.4 = ~ 4 Inches) whereas a 400mm f5.6 lens would have a 400 / 5.6 = ~71mm = ~2.8" front lens element.

A good zoom lens is still very sharp and in its "sweet spot" of the zoom range is close to or even as sharp as a prime fixed focus lens. I personally always prefer the zoom over the fixed due to versatility.
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

July 31, 2007
7:14 PM

Post #3801821

Hi Linda - Joan has the 70-200mm F4.0L IS USM lens that she uses with the extender, and really likes. That is where the OL came from. Sounds like USM is a good thing.

I'll check out that lens site right now...

Do you think the 100 - 300 mm lens would be sufficient for wildlife photography in Africa? We'll be in Jeeps, and the guides will use the best positioning possible - depending of course on the animal involved. (I would prefer distance with elephants and hippos!! And probably lions, too!) I know the bigger the lens, the heavier, and I don't want overkill with the weight. Will be using the side of the Jeep in place of a tripod. I threw in the macro wishes, because if the lens can overlap, with the use of extenders or diopters, that would be best, I would think. Birds and insects will be my photography focus back in the States.
linda_nc
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

July 31, 2007
7:45 PM

Post #3801957

On the 70-200mm f/4.0 L IS USM ... it's a f/4.0 and a "L" lens. The "L" is Canon's designation for their high-end lenses, all have a red band around the end of the lens.

I'm not familiar with the 100-300. The 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM lens (not the "DO" version) has Image Stabilizaton (IS) and may be another one to consider ... shooting off the side of the jeep, the IS might help.

Your safari sounds like such a fun adventure! When are you going?

This message was edited Jul 31, 2007 2:47 PM
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

July 31, 2007
8:20 PM

Post #3802048

September! I want to get this camera so I can practice and learn BEFORE I go!! (Good luck there...)

Still reading the Canon lens link - I have really learned a lot so far! Even about the L lens!

Haven't read about the DO version yet. You're still way ahead of me. Heehee...
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 1, 2007
4:09 AM

Post #3803876

OK. I have done a lot of reading since we last met! Those were fantastic sites.

Here's what I'm thinking: I'm getting the 30D.

Lenses that I'm focusing on are the EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM. I also looked into the DO version of that lens and need to do a little more research. It is between the two for my telephoto zoom lens.

It is also between these two for my all-around lens: EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM and the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM. Leaning towards the second for indoor shots without flash.

Adding the 500D diopter for the 70-300mmm along with the Kenko extender tubes set (for macros).

All of the lenses seem to run at 1 1/2 pounds.

What do you think?

This message was edited Jul 31, 2007 11:13 PM
Floridian
Lutz, FL
(Zone 9b)


August 1, 2007
10:23 AM

Post #3804161

I love my 100 to 400 lens, so much that it is rarely off of the camera. That said, I often lust for more focal length, rarely less. LOL If you shop around you can often get different "kit lenses" and package deals. Mine was the 17-85, the 100-400 and a 2x teleconverter as well as other peripherals.

The Rebel XTi is getting great reviews. I hear that it is also self cleaning which would be a huge plus. Dust spots are a pain

ETA - If you're going to be carrying your camera on your shoulder a lot get yourself a soft, stretchy strap. Quantaray (Ritz/Wolfe Cameras) makes a couple of different ones under $15. A photo vest is also a good investment allowing you to carry batteries, filters, cards etc as well as ID and cell phone, etc

Also...IMHO...go with the 100-400 if you can. This one covers the 300 and let's you get just that much closer.

Stacey



This message was edited Aug 1, 2007 6:37 AM
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 1, 2007
3:41 PM

Post #3805229

I saw a bad review for the 70-300 lens last night, and it also apparently rotates, so can't use polarizer. Also the USM isn't the ring type...so I'm back at the drawing board. Does anyone have the DO model?

The problem with the 100-400 is the weight - three pounds. I may have to eat that and get it anyway. DH says he's not carrying any of my lens around. LOL It seems he thinks that I am going to abandon him completely once I get the DSLR.

Floridian - that sounds like a great kit. Do you recall where you got it?
linda_nc
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

August 1, 2007
4:27 PM

Post #3805420

I had the 70-300 DO for a while, but ended up selling it ... for me, the image quality was not what I expected. I think the 100-400L is a better lens ... it is larger & heavier but adds reach & image quality ... perfect for a safari. It also works well with the 500D and teleconverters.

I had and liked the 100-400L but sold it when I got a 400 prime. I like the prime, but often miss the flexibility of the 100-400 ... I would buy it again.

How much hiking will you be doing? As Stacy suggested, a vest and a good strap can help with the weight. I like the Op/Tech Pro Loop straps ... they are strechy/soft but also have a second webbed strap to stop them from being too bouncy with heavier gear.
Zen_Man
Ottawa, KS
(Zone 5b)

August 1, 2007
4:58 PM

Post #3805525

This is the month that people expect Canon's announcement of the EOS 40D as a replacement for the EOS 30D. I am waiting to see what new features the 40D will have, and to decide whether it will be worth the extra cost as compared to the 30D.

I will probably purchase just the camera body and add a good Canon macro lens for closeup flower and insect photography. Later, when my budget allows, I will get a longer focal length lens for nature photography. I don't have any pending trip, so I can afford to wait some. I expect that 30Ds will be discounted after the 40D launch.

MM
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 1, 2007
5:32 PM

Post #3805631

Wish I could wait, but time is running out - fast!!

The 100-400 looks good, I just worry about its weight. We will be in the jeeps, hardly much (if any) hiking in Africa. Will visit a village on foot, but I would use the wide angle there (17-55mm).
Definitely want a vest and good strap. I'll look into the Op/Tech. Currently have the Audubon binocular harness strap, but I think the 30D camera and 100-400 lens weight would be waaayyyyy too much for it. Probably hang to my knees!! Or drag on the ground...

So, you all think that the EF 100-400 f/4.5L IS USM is the way to go? (I haven't found it outside the L series) What do you think about the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM?

Dang!! It's a good thing I've been saving my money!! Whooeee...
PanamonCreel
Celaya
Mexico
(Zone 10a)


August 1, 2007
6:33 PM

Post #3805873

To me the 100-400 is the way to go, it has a nice zoom range and is compatible with the extenders.
Get a large enough camera bag where you can fit this lens for longer excursions where you have to carry it.
I get a big grin in my face when I hear you say that 3 pounds is heavy for a lens, I myself have a 13 pound lens that is about 21 Inches long and I wish to have a mule with me when I take it on excursions :).
Btw. get a bean bag which you can rest your lens on when taking shots from the truck.
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 1, 2007
6:39 PM

Post #3805901

13 pounds!!! What is it?! I guess I'm just a wimp.

We have weight limitations. I've learned about the bean bag - and in this instance, because of the weight limitations, it will consist of a zip-loc bag with beans or rice purchased in Africa! And given away at the end of the trip.
PanamonCreel
Celaya
Mexico
(Zone 10a)


August 1, 2007
7:11 PM

Post #3806024

Oh it's a 300-800mm f/5.6 Sigma Lens. Beautiful lens but a gym membership required in advance to be able to lug it around :)
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 1, 2007
7:21 PM

Post #3806055

LOL and Omigosh!! Are you a professional photographer?
PanamonCreel
Celaya
Mexico
(Zone 10a)


August 1, 2007
7:33 PM

Post #3806098

No, also not a PI to look into windows with that huge lens :). It's a recent "present" to myself to help me get the closer pictures on my wildlife scare excursions ;)

Think about it you could get a 1200MM f/4 lens from Canon (custom orders only) which weighs in at about 30 pounds at the cost of an upper class luxury car ;)
JoanMN
Pine City, MN
(Zone 4a)

August 1, 2007
7:34 PM

Post #3806102

I love my 70-200 lens, my first (and probably last, they're so pricey) L glass. But even with the extender, it might not be enough reach for you. Before, I had a 75-300 IS USM Canon lens. Worked great, but needed a little more sharpness. I mulled it over for at least a month on which lens to get. The 70-200 with the extender cost $1,200. The 70-300 costs about $500.00.
But I am happy with my L lens.
The bigger lenses are priciers (L glass I mean), and just too heavy for me.
JoanMN
Pine City, MN
(Zone 4a)

August 1, 2007
7:36 PM

Post #3806114

Here is a small album where I put some test shots with the 70-200 lens.
http://www.pbase.com/joanmn/testing_70200mm_f40l_is_lens

I returned the first lens, kept the second. REally, I think the only problem was the learning curve with the upgrade on both lens and camera.

This message was edited Aug 1, 2007 2:38 PM
Magpye
NW Qtr, AR
(Zone 6a)

August 1, 2007
8:34 PM

Post #3806411

CJ ..

Some additional resources, (jes in case) ..
> http://www.popphoto.com/cameralenses/4245/editors-choice-2007-slr-lenses.html

- Magpye
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 2, 2007
4:09 AM

Post #3808230

OK. Maybe a change of plans. I went to the store and touched and felt the camera (30D) with the kit lens - EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM - then came home and checked reviews about the lens, and it is well-liked. (I didn't realize that there are two different kits.) So now I'm thinking about maybe holding off on the 17-55mm lens and trying this one out first. Maybe I won't want a 17-55 lens then.The only drawback is the 17-55mm is a f/2.8...but the reviews said the 28-135 took great low light shots. I'll lose some wide angle too. But this will lower the total price by some $700! (And by buying the 28-135 as part of the kit, around $280 is knocked off its price, so would hate to pass this up, only to buy it later.)

I am thinking this is what I should do. I still have to get all the accessories - cards, battery packs, backpack, 500D diopter, Kenko tube set, etc... Maybe a polarizer?

Now, I can afford to go either way, but I don't want to be stupid just because I can afford it. It just seems logical to me.

So, what do you think, dear advisers? You have been such a great help to me. I couldn't have come this far without you!!! Thank you, thank you!!
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 2, 2007
5:04 AM

Post #3808320

Dang it!! Now I'm thinking that I should just go for the 17-55, having just read some great reviews on it.
You pay for what you get, right?
Aaarrrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Floridian
Lutz, FL
(Zone 9b)


August 2, 2007
1:20 PM

Post #3808932

ceejay, I bought from Express Cameras. Here's a link to the 30D packages. http://www.expresscameras.com/search.asp?string=EOS+30D

And the Rebel XTi: http://www.expresscameras.com/prodetails.asp?prodid=620725

Be careful here...The really "good deals" are often plastic cameras as opposed to the metal bodies. Also, they are expensive on some things, shipping and insurance is 5% of the total cost.

The good thing is you can dicker with them. For instance I don't need or want a tripod, lens cleaning kit, small (less than 2G) CF card, filters, batteries, etc. (These things are available other places for very low cost.) They can and will rearrange the packages to suit. Try to get them to throw in an extended warranty...those are really expensive now.

See what they have to offer then comparison shop. Making the plunge into DSLR can be and can get very expensive as you add accessories.

BTW: One thing that camera makers do not tell you is that the number of times the shutter will fire is finite. I don't know how big that number is, 50,000, 60,000 or 100,000. My 20D has reached that unknown figure and the whole shutter mechanism needs to be replaced to the tune of $670. I opted to buy a new 30D body instead. (Hopefully my 5yr extended warranty will cover that but I'll deal with that later.)

Good luck on your search!
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 3, 2007
2:55 AM

Post #3811887

Thanks, Floridian. The 30D is listed for 100,000. Curious to know if the warranty covers when you get beyond that...

How long have you had your 20D?.

This message was edited Aug 2, 2007 10:10 PM
Floridian
Lutz, FL
(Zone 9b)


August 3, 2007
10:05 AM

Post #3812458

I got my 20D March 25, 2005 and the shutter failed June 21. 27 months and 4 days to complete (Err 99) failure. I have been without my big lens since. It has been a very long, sad time. Both the new camera and the lens are due in early next week. Good thing since I'm committed to a Special Olympics photo shoot on the 11th. I was dreading the thought of canceling.

Where did you find the info on the shutter?

I don't know yet if the extended warranty will cover the shutter. I won't know til I have the camera back long enough to send it back in with the warranty information. I sure hope it does. I hate to think that when one spends that much on a camera it becomes a throwaway so quickly. It might be a good question for Canon directly,,,
PanamonCreel
Celaya
Mexico
(Zone 10a)


August 3, 2007
3:21 PM

Post #3813333

I doubt that the warranty will cover shutter failure. The shutter and also the mirror mechanisms are wear parts like brake pads or tires on a car for example .
I don't think that any manufacturer actually gives an official minimum "shutter life" number, under the table they give an expected life expectancy which on newer cameras is around 100K, most will likely exceed that number but some may fall short of the number.

As for your lens: For an everyday lens look for something with a "good wide" zoom range.
Can't give you any recommendations since I'm using Nikon and didn't see anything comparable to my 18-200mm VR lens in the Canon world. The EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM seems to be the closest I can come up with and reviews are generally positive on this one.
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 3, 2007
8:30 PM

Post #3814335

I got the 100,000 from Canon's press release on the 30D http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022114canoneos30d.asp

Yeah, I'm thinking I should just go with that kit lens at this time, although I lust for the 17-55mm f2.8... Definitely getting the 100-400 lens. Thanks for all the recommendations on that. Found a great Canon forum web site, and that is the most highly recommended lens for wildlife - by a long shot. But I can't find that site for anything, right now, or I'd share it with you.

Thank you all again! You've been more help than you'll ever know! :-)
Magpye
NW Qtr, AR
(Zone 6a)

August 3, 2007
10:19 PM

Post #3814735

Prob'ly an utterly useless post .. .. lol ..
But, tis another test/review of your prospective Canon EOS 30D (from July 2006) ..
http://www.popphoto.com/cameras/2665/camera-test-canon-eos-30d.html

- Magpye
Floridian
Lutz, FL
(Zone 9b)


August 3, 2007
10:57 PM

Post #3814873

You won't regret it that's for sure and that lens is very versatile. Try playing with it between 300 and 400 and you'll see the difference. A trip to Africa, how exciting! When are you leaving? Have a great time!!
We will be expecting pictures!

That'a a great link, Mags. Makes me feel better about going for the 30D...I love my 20D and would have happily replaced it. The price was about the same for both so I decided to try the 30. Come on Tuesday!
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 4, 2007
3:01 AM

Post #3815603

Well, Magpye, it's good to be reinforced in one's decision. So not useless...

I'm getting ready to order...

I leave Sept 8, and I need to get some practice in first. What a drag. :-D
Zen_Man
Ottawa, KS
(Zone 5b)

August 4, 2007
3:08 AM

Post #3815620

CJ,

"I leave Sept 8..."

Maybe I'll photograph your departure with the new Canon 40D. (grin)

MM
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 4, 2007
3:19 AM

Post #3815643

Low blow, MM! LOL!
Zen_Man
Ottawa, KS
(Zone 5b)

August 7, 2007
2:37 AM

Post #3826829

CJ,

Actually, according to this, http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/08/03/canon.eos.40d.leak , I won't be photographing your departure with the new Canon 40D. Apparently the 40D won't be shipping until September or October.

MM
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 7, 2007
4:21 AM

Post #3827168

You're just going to keep rubbing it in, aren't you!!!? :-P
Zen_Man
Ottawa, KS
(Zone 5b)

August 22, 2007
5:18 PM

Post #3886592

CJ,

"You're just going to keep rubbing it in, aren't you!!!? :-P"

Grin, why not? Here's the press release: http://www.usa.canon.com/html/templatedata/pressrelease/20070820_40d.html

And here's the official Canon 40D info: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=15653

Too bad your trip wasn't scheduled a couple of months later. A Canon 40D will be an early Christmas present to myself. That companion EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens was intended as a "kit" lens for the 40D, but of course could be used on your 30D as well. From their description of the lens in the press release, it sounds like the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens has very advanced optical image stabilization, to justify describing it as "four stops" of stabilization. The $200 price tag isn't bad, either.

MM
tonyjr
Union City, CA
(Zone 9b)

August 30, 2007
4:54 PM

Post #3918166

Don't forget to get 4 or 5 extra memory cards 1 or 2 batteries , at least a mono-pod but tripod would be better . Get a good camera bag - the more padding the better . I'll post a canon site in next post where you can read about bags , batteries , lens etc
tonyjr
Union City, CA
(Zone 9b)

August 30, 2007
4:56 PM

Post #3918172

Canon site with lots to read - read the read before you post first .
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=34&order=desc
JoanMN
Pine City, MN
(Zone 4a)

August 30, 2007
10:04 PM

Post #3919246

Wow, I'd like to have the lens for my 400D!
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 31, 2007
1:17 AM

Post #3919841

tonyjr - I've already joined that site and this one too http://www.photographycorner.com/ They are really awesome sites, and I've learned a lot from them. Between the help here and there, I feel I got the right equipment. I got the 30D, EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM, EF28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM and the EF-S17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM lenses, and my camera bag is a Lowepro mini trekker backpack. It holds my camera with the big lens attached, with room for the other two lenses and plenty more to grow into. Altogether they weigh 12 pounds. I have two battery packs, but I may have shorted myself by getting 3 2GB cards. I'm thinking about adding a 4GB, but I just can't see needing that many when I return. I'll be able to download the pictures onto a CD 1/2 way through the adventure - 1 week point - and so I think that 6GB is probably sufficient. I dunno...Can't take a tripod. Haven't found a monopod that can collapse to fit into the 29" duffle bag we're allowed on the small planes. We have a severe weight limitation. I'm hoping they don't kick me off with my 12 pound backpack! So I'm really counting on the image stabilizers in the lenses to help me out.
linda_nc
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

August 31, 2007
3:19 AM

Post #3920268

I would highly recommend getting more memory ... 6GB doesn't sound like enough for 1 week's worth of shooting ... at least at the rate I would tend to shoot. You also might think about taking double backups to CD (DVD?) and carry them in different places to lessen the risk of losing files (althoug I tend to be fairly paranoid on big trips and try to maintain 2 copies of files whenever possible).

I would also highly recommend getting a Rocket Air Blower to get the dust off your sensor and lenses periodically ... no weight and they'll scrunch nicely into your pack.

Do you have a photographers vest? It's another way to carry cards/lenses around without taking the pack everywhere.

I bet you're really getting excited now!
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 31, 2007
3:34 AM

Post #3920314

Vest - No. Can't take to Africa so will wait until I return and have more time to check it out.
OK, will get blower...
You don't think that if I delete bad photos daily, 6 GB wouldn't do it? Unless I get out there and practice with this stuff, 6 GB may be way too much!!!
What do you recommend for a lens to cover/protect the lens?
And - this has been very worrisome to me and one of the reasons I haven't had the opportunity to go and work out with these lenses: humidity. I read that you should put the lens in an airtight bag before going outside and let it gradually warm up before removing from the bag. What do you think? Humidity we have!! Is the backpack sufficient? Can that be my warm up chamber?
linda_nc
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

August 31, 2007
4:00 AM

Post #3920412

I tend to shoot a lot when I get going, so I'd use up the memory. Check to see the standard file size for your camera and calcualte the number of shots you can get on a card. If you're on a photo-focused safari, you'll probably take more than you think. Another factor is your file format ... I shoot RAW files which take more space than JPEG.

I'm in NC and have only had a problem with extreme temp/humidity changes ... like when I went from air conditioning to the butterfly atrium, or altenately, from a very cold mountain top to a warmed up car. The airtight bag seems like it would work ... but I just use lens tissue/paper, although it may take a few swipes while the lens adusts. It's just like wearing glasses.
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 31, 2007
4:22 AM

Post #3920465

So it doesn't hurt anything inside the lens? That has been my worry...little mirrors or something...
And here near Houston, just going outside has been like going from A/C into the butterfly atrium. Really. With all of our rain this summer...whooiee!! You take a shower just walking around outside.

I'll be using jpeg. I know it's not the best, but I'm not looking to sell my photos. And I can get way more pictures that way. It's not a photo focused safari - I'm photo focused...
linda_nc
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

August 31, 2007
4:35 AM

Post #3920484

I've never experienced an issue with any of my lenses and I don't baby them to much ... Canon lenses are made well. It might be an issue if you stored them in a humid place or spent a bunch of time in the humidity (like weeks) without giving them a chance to dry out. I've heard of people taking extra precautions for trips to the rainforest, but not for a day out shooting.

Now go out and have fun shooting!!!!
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 31, 2007
4:49 AM

Post #3920514

Thanks, Linda. That's a relief!! I haven't had time to baby these things, so I haven't done any outdoor shooting. Now I'm free to concentrate on everything Africa for the first time. So I'll head outdoors between rain storms. And that won't be easy. I wish that was an LOL!!

Oh - one more thing: What do you recommend for a clear lens to cover/protect the lens? Or do you?
linda_nc
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

August 31, 2007
12:13 PM

Post #3920981

I tend to use lens hoods instead of filters ... they protect the lens as well as minimize flare.

If you want clear filters for your lenses, I've had good luck with B&W filters in the past. Their "UV Haze 010 Glass" filter would be a good, minimal image impact, all-around filter. The MRC versions are coated to minimize flare and ghosting. You might need a "slim" for your 17-55 lens wide-angle lens.

Some people use a skylight filter, but that introduces a hint of pink.

I use a circular polarizer if I'm working around water or glass and want to cut the glare ... occasionally to boost a blue sky.
I use a graduated neutral density filter (Cokin format, not screw-in) for contrasty landscape skies, sunrises and sunsets.

Keep in mind that buying cheap filters can put a not-so-good piece of glass in front of your very nice lenses!

ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

August 31, 2007
2:47 PM

Post #3921574

OK. I had been told that I needed something to protect the lens glass, and I didn't want to destroy the quality. So, if that's not the case, I'll just leave them bare. I do want to get a polarizing filter in the future. I have a hood for the big lens.

Thanks again for your help!
tonyjr
Union City, CA
(Zone 9b)

September 3, 2007
11:29 PM

Post #3933472

Clear is better , but a UV can cut down on flare [ looks like a crack in glass , ] Glare [ looks like flare but sometimes has a small rainbow effect . A haze or skylight can add a color cast , pink , lite red - warming .
The purpose of clear is to protect lens , they are easier to clean than lens and can slow down water getting into lens .
The others filters do the same , but add other things / do other things .
It's better to buy a B+W [ my opinion ] CPL [ circular polarizing ] than the others . Haze , UV , sky , clear protect , ND [ neutral density ]
Go to store and check them out - if you can find a store that carries them . Otherwise just order the B+W CPL . That you can resell - others no one even wants .
This site will keep you busy reading , just scroll until you see filter or CPL or Haze or protection filters - if you get side tracked you will forget the filters .
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22081
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

September 4, 2007
5:49 AM

Post #3934958

Finally got outside to play with my new camera. And I am pumped!! I love it! And that 100-400mm lens - awesome. Here's a lucky shot I got off. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=3934919
Finding that little bird in that magnolia tree was HARD through that lens. And holding 4 1/2 pounds up to your eyeball - after awhile I thought my arms were going to fall off! I think I'm gonna get some muscles... This photo was taken without a tripod! I love the stabilizer in that lens. If it can handle this, I think taking photos of lions should be just fine...Bring 'em on!
Thanks everybody for all of your help!!
linda_nc
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

September 4, 2007
1:17 PM

Post #3935438

Yea! Great shot ceejay!!!

One thought ... you might not have time and I've never tried one, but I have heard of some wildlife photgraphers using a chest support as an alterative to a tripod/monopod. Here's a link to the Novoflex Chestpod at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Novoflex-Shoulder-Support-Mounting-Thread/dp/B000H7OAKC
Floridian
Lutz, FL
(Zone 9b)


September 4, 2007
1:32 PM

Post #3935490

Bravo, Great shot!! You sound just as excited as I was when I got the same gear! I still am that excited when I go someplace for a photo shoot. I never even think twice about setting my alarm for 3am to be someplace at sunrise.

Don't stress to much about not having a mono/tri pod. I've used my camera for 2 years and never used one. You'll quickly get used to the weight and you already see how good the IS is. I don't use auto focus either but that's just a preference of mine

Happy photo-ing! LOL

ETA: I have 2 tripods and a monopod and choose not to use them for the type of photography I do.

This message was edited Sep 5, 2007 8:29 AM
tonyjr
Union City, CA
(Zone 9b)

September 7, 2007
1:13 AM

Post #3945622

nice shot
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

September 7, 2007
2:52 AM

Post #3946029

Thanks, everybody. Off to shoot lions...
MiniSchnuz
New Iberia, LA
(Zone 9a)

September 27, 2007
1:36 PM

Post #4022818

Great shot! Dont u love 30D? I have 30D too.. I had this camera for almost a year. Now saving $$ for new len.. not decide which I want to buy.. lots of study and make my mind which one I want. I am doing photography for wedding, party, family, etc.. This Oct 13, I have to attend to a wedding for photography. It'll be fun. This coming sunday, I have to meet two customer for wedding shoot.

Thumbnail by MiniSchnuz
Click the image for an enlarged view.

ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

October 6, 2007
12:07 AM

Post #4052975

I thought I would share a couple of photos with all of you who helped me so much. The camera was wonderful, and the lens was awesome!! I am still on the learning curve, though! But while others took photos of the whole animal with scenery, I was able to move in and get some great close ups! I want to make a collage of sorts of the animals' eyes, which I can do with cropping - the photos are that sharp.

Here's a lioness yawning. She had eaten a big meal and just wanted to sleep...

Thumbnail by ceejaytown
Click the image for an enlarged view.

ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

October 6, 2007
12:22 AM

Post #4053010

The lion - I didn't realize how big these guys could get. He was beautiful! And those eyes!

Thumbnail by ceejaytown
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Floridian
Lutz, FL
(Zone 9b)


October 6, 2007
1:23 AM

Post #4053209

Great pictures, great color, crisp and clear. I'm sure glad you were happy with this gear...I just LOVE that lens!
Going to show us some more? Please?
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

October 6, 2007
1:43 AM

Post #4053285

Okey dokey. Talked me into it (it really wasn't hard!)... :-)
Giraffe...I have full body shots too, but I love this closeup.

Thumbnail by ceejaytown
Click the image for an enlarged view.

ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

October 6, 2007
1:45 AM

Post #4053291

Elephant drinking...

Thumbnail by ceejaytown
Click the image for an enlarged view.

ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

October 6, 2007
1:51 AM

Post #4053312

I love the composition on this photo of a fish eagle - comparable to our bald eagle.

Thumbnail by ceejaytown
Click the image for an enlarged view.

ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

October 6, 2007
1:53 AM

Post #4053325

PS These were all hand held shots. I LOVE that lens!
Floridian
Lutz, FL
(Zone 9b)


October 6, 2007
2:06 AM

Post #4053362

I hear an echo of my own thoughts! LOL

More great shots! You're right about the fish eagle picture...it really is good.
You should post over in Wildlife where more people can enjoy them
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

October 6, 2007
2:23 AM

Post #4053398

You're right. And that was indeed an echo. I just wanted to thank everyone for all of your help. I have absolutely no regrets and feel that I got exactly the right equipment.
MiniSchnuz
New Iberia, LA
(Zone 9a)

October 6, 2007
3:20 AM

Post #4053539

Beautiful, sharp pictures! What kind of len you using to take those pictures... 100-400mm lens??
pelletory
Marlton, NJ

October 6, 2007
4:45 PM

Post #4054720

Great pics ceejay!!! Looks like you had a wonderful time!!
linda_nc
Greensboro, NC
(Zone 7b)

October 7, 2007
12:03 PM

Post #4057082

I agree, great shots with super detail ... I like them all! So glad your new gear worked out for you!! It certainly looks like you had some great photo opportunities on your safari. The lions are amazing.
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

January 11, 2008
6:29 AM

Post #4386351

Minischnuz - I returned to this thread to pick up some information, and realized I hadn't answered your question. I am so sorry! Yes, these photos were taken with the 100-400mm lens.

I had a lot of trouble with the 17-55mm lens. Thought it might be a bad lens. So I read the book. LOL!! Learned a lot! I think I'll read it once a week until I can remember all that stuff. All of my settings were off - don't know when/how that happened. But just getting it all reset was a definite learning experience. I know lots more about that camera now!! Wish I had known it before the trip!

Sunset in the Okavanga Delta, Botswana.

Thumbnail by ceejaytown
Click the image for an enlarged view.

cactuspatch
Alamogordo, NM
(Zone 7b)

January 25, 2008
4:46 AM

Post #4450972

Very beautiful shots of Africa. You must be so proud of those wonderful memories of your trip!

I just ordered an XTi. Can't wait to start "playing". Will just have domestic cats to shoot though!
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

January 25, 2008
5:14 AM

Post #4451099

Have fun!! I know you will. Domestic cats are a lot of fun to shoot too, and you can get much closer!

Thumbnail by ceejaytown
Click the image for an enlarged view.

cactuspatch
Alamogordo, NM
(Zone 7b)

January 25, 2008
2:13 PM

Post #4451709

LOL! Yes I can , one is sitting in my lap right now. ; ) I just reread your comment about reading the book. I find that rereading my manuals, just a bit at a time is my best way to learn any new software, tool etc. I've had my little Fugi Z5 for a year now and just a couple of months ago realized I could voice record with it. DUH! I could have been saying the names to rose as I took the photo. Oh well, live and learn right? LOL!
JoanMN
Pine City, MN
(Zone 4a)

January 26, 2008
7:04 PM

Post #4457211

ceejaytown, you got some wonderful photos! What a great way to keep (and share) memories, huh?
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

January 26, 2008
9:04 PM

Post #4457595

Joan, I still need to get the Kenko extenders. The time is almost upon us when I want to move into macro shots.
It was a little frustrating not being able to share my photos with people who wanted to see them. You know, we used to carry around snapshots for that. So for Christmas I got an Apple iPod touch. It's like their iPhone, but without the phone. So I downloaded my photos (all of my photos actually - over 13,000) and I carry it around in my purse. It has come in so handy, not only for the Africa shots. I can show my garden photos, grandkids, etc. The only thing I don't like about it, is that it doesn't show the quality of the photo - it reduces them in size. But people that look at snapshots aren't looking for the quality anyway...
Now, I have to find a site on the internet where I can point people that want to see the Africa photos. Canon used to have one, when I had my sweet little S100. I need to check it out.

Thumbnail by ceejaytown
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Riverland
Northeast, LA
(Zone 8a)

January 26, 2008
9:10 PM

Post #4457614

Google has a great place with Picassa( free download) to showcase large folders of pictures. I find it simple to use a simple to share photos.The people you share the photos can view them without having to download anything. I hope this is what you was talking about.
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

January 26, 2008
9:12 PM

Post #4457617

Thanks, Riverland. I'll check that out. I have Picassa, and use it a lot just to find my photos.
I do minor editing with it too. But I didn't know you could do that.
cactuspatch
Alamogordo, NM
(Zone 7b)

January 27, 2008
3:57 AM

Post #4459084

I love flickr for my photos.
Check it out! http://www.flickr.com/
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

January 27, 2008
4:35 AM

Post #4459189

Thanks, cactus. I will.
Wow. Two to look into, and just a short time ago, I had zero. Thanks, guys!
Riverland
Northeast, LA
(Zone 8a)

January 27, 2008
4:37 AM

Post #4459197

your welcome.
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

January 27, 2008
5:32 AM

Post #4459358

Riverland - Are you talking about the blog site they offer?
Riverland
Northeast, LA
(Zone 8a)

January 27, 2008
3:42 PM

Post #4460163

Open up picassa find the album you would like to share , at the bottom of the page has a button web album. press tis and it will ask you a few questions an create a web page for viewing your pictures. extremely simple to use since you are already fimilar with Picassa already. Now when you want to go there and look at your albums just open picassa and the right hand corner of your screen there are words web album. click there and you will see all your web albums. Let me know if you have problems. It has been a while since I have done this.
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

January 27, 2008
10:56 PM

Post #4461853

Thanks much!

Calif_Sue

Calif_Sue
Northern California
United States
(Zone 9a)


January 28, 2008
5:01 PM

Post #4464985

ceejaytown, LOVED the safari shots!!

I love using the Picasa album, I need fast and simple and this fits the bill. I can email the album link and I usually add a note to view the album by slideshow for the best quality. I have a flicker account too and get annoyed by the occasional load time delay bar so I use the Picasa exclusively now. (btw, Picasa also does that load lag but I find it less annoying LOL) I like the layout better too.
http://picasaweb.google.com/SPBrown.Ca/SueSGarden

I too have the XTi, new to me since Oct. A couple of extra books/manuals I purchased that came highly recommended with great reviews (and I have yet to get started on!) I need the basics so that's what these are:

Digital Field Guide for the Rebel XTi by Charlotte Lowrie (nicely spiral bound)
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Digital-Rebel-Field-Guide/dp/0470110074/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201538913&sr=8-3


The Betterphoto Guide to Digital Photography by Jim Miotke, President of BetterPhoto.com, Inc.
http://www.amazon.com/Betterphoto-Guide-Digital-Photography-Amphoto/dp/0817435522/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201539018&sr=8-1

and by the same author, The BetterPhoto Guide to Digital Nature Photography
http://www.amazon.com/BetterPhoto-Digital-Nature-Photography-Better/dp/0817435530/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201539018&sr=8-14

I had considered taking his online classes (4 to 8 weeks courses) for the critiques from the instructors as you move along with the course assignments but I wanted to go through these books first, they may be enough to get me going and then I can always reconsider an online course for more advancement, plenty of subjects and experience levels to chose from. http://www.betterphoto.com/home.asp


This message was edited Jan 28, 2008 9:32 AM
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

January 28, 2008
11:50 PM

Post #4466524

I really enjoyed your photos. You have a beautiful garden, wonderful succulents, and awesome daylilies. Penny, Kasey , and Ferris are delightful!! When I see what kinds of things you can grown on the west coast, I am always jealous.
cactuspatch
Alamogordo, NM
(Zone 7b)

January 29, 2008
12:12 AM

Post #4466625

I agree, but then Sue knows I love to see her photos!

Is the book you mentioned by Lowrie one that has lots more than the manual that comes with the camera?

I use flickr and like it for the interaction with other flickr users plus it links with my Yahoo 360' blog.

Calif_Sue

Calif_Sue
Northern California
United States
(Zone 9a)


January 29, 2008
5:26 AM

Post #4468122

Yes, that book is more detailed than the manual. She is also an instructor with BetterPhoto so both these authors have a good teaching ability. If you read the reviews on Amazon, several say that the manual was better than the one that comes with the camera. It is a basic how-to book but that's what I need at this point even though I have been taking pictures for over 30 years. I feel I need the knowledge and how to's to go beyond just taking lots of photos and hoping for a few good shots.

Calif_Sue

Calif_Sue
Northern California
United States
(Zone 9a)


January 29, 2008
5:34 AM

Post #4468139

ceejaytown, thanks, glad you enjoyed them! I hope to have better shots this year.
Here is a favorites rose album, the first two rows with the old Canon PowerShot G3 and the rest with the new XTi, all on AutoMode. I really look forward to spring blooms and lost of practicing!
http://picasaweb.google.com/SPBrown.Ca/FavoriteRoseImages
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

January 29, 2008
6:59 AM

Post #4468250

Those are really wonderful photos, Sue! Either camera... Are these all in your garden? Surely not...
Oh, and beautiful roses, too, BTW...

Calif_Sue

Calif_Sue
Northern California
United States
(Zone 9a)


January 29, 2008
7:05 AM

Post #4468257

No, only two roses are mine. There is a San Jose Heritage Rose Garden and another San Jose Municipal Rose Garden only 10 minutes away plus I take my camera with me when nursery shopping so I am always snapping away.
cactuspatch
Alamogordo, NM
(Zone 7b)

January 29, 2008
3:58 PM

Post #4469140

I have seen Sue's album and those are great shots. I think she even had one in a magazine last year?

I think the manual is pretty good, but enjoy reading photography books if they aren't too basic. I have also been taking photos for over 30 years. It seems to go hand in hand with gardening. I love looking at gardens I had and loved years ago, another place and time.
Riverland
Northeast, LA
(Zone 8a)

January 29, 2008
4:27 PM

Post #4469290

Sue we all love looking at your photos. You didn't know you had your own admiring fanclub huh? LOL. It's a lot of trouble to shoot pictures, reduce them to not lose quality, and post them to plant files. I appreciate the work you do. I, too, have been taking pictures a long time but mostly by the sit of my pants. I think I will get ahold of a few of these books to increase the chances of making better shots. PLease keep posting those photos.I have the older 8 meg XT but I love it. I got a 100 macro lens and a newer 70-200 zoom for Christmas. We haven't had any pretty days since to warrant taking any pictues. I will love them when spring comes. I would love to get the 100-400 next.
Cindy

Calif_Sue

Calif_Sue
Northern California
United States
(Zone 9a)


January 29, 2008
4:45 PM

Post #4469378

Thanks Cindy, tickled to have a fan!

That's what I want next, new lenses. Will have to wait though, my job just cut back to a third of what I was making and we have a son getting married in May so money is very tight now.
Riverland
Northeast, LA
(Zone 8a)

January 29, 2008
4:49 PM

Post #4469391

My old lens was 13 years old. I used it with my 35mm Eos.
Those wedding can really be expensive.
cactuspatch
Alamogordo, NM
(Zone 7b)

January 29, 2008
5:01 PM

Post #4469460

I hear ya Sue. I am a part-timer and DH is slowing down his work due to his health. We got a 75-300 zoom. That will be all I have to play with unless I decide to get a macro. The lenses are where you spend the $ that is for certain!

Calif_Sue

Calif_Sue
Northern California
United States
(Zone 9a)


January 29, 2008
5:21 PM

Post #4469557

I NEED a macro, love doing closeups and I really would love a great zoom. We went to Yellowstone Park last Sept. before I got the camera and if we go again, I really want a great zoom. Frustrating when you see all these people parked on the road side, ohhhing and ahhing over the wolf pack and the grizzly in the distance and you can't see a thing because you forgot your binoculars for one thing and all you have is your basic point and shoot!

Hubby sneaked this shot.

Thumbnail by Calif_Sue
Click the image for an enlarged view.

cactuspatch
Alamogordo, NM
(Zone 7b)

January 29, 2008
5:28 PM

Post #4469586

Yeah, that is one thing I had missed about my old SLR. I was always using it instead of binoculars! That is why I got the zoom first. I will play with using it for macros too. I played with the white balance and it is wonderful. Reds were very true with my little Fugi Z5 but turned out a bit yellow until I adjusted it on this Canon. Now if I can remember how next time! LOL!
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

January 29, 2008
6:41 PM

Post #4469879

Well, if you figure out how you did it, let me know...
cactuspatch
Alamogordo, NM
(Zone 7b)

January 29, 2008
6:47 PM

Post #4469895

I just followed the instructions on the pocket guide that came with my camera. I was taking a photo of a quilt on my design wall. I took one with it on auto, the red fabrics looked a bit orange. Then took one after setting the WB (white balance button) for tungsten light which is what was on in my studio. That shot came our great!
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

January 29, 2008
6:51 PM

Post #4469908

Gotcha there. But how about outside - and those red roses?
cactuspatch
Alamogordo, NM
(Zone 7b)

January 29, 2008
6:55 PM

Post #4469925

It has a "daylight" setting. My roses are not blooming this time of year so I haven't actually tried it yet. I am going to go to a park here in town and see how it does with some of the equipment that is brightly painted. I have only had mine since last Monday! Others can give better instructions I am certain. ; )
ceejaytown
The Woodlands, TX
(Zone 9a)

January 29, 2008
7:01 PM

Post #4469948

I am familiar with the WB settings, but haven't yet found the red to do what I want it to do. I think maybe I'll just have to be more careful with the time of day that I'm taking the shot. I don't have anything red blooming right now either, and I just got my camera last fall. I'm going to put it through its paces when spring comes!!
Melissa_Ohio
Southwestern, OH
(Zone 6b)

August 10, 2008
7:45 PM

Post #5395841

I'm finally to the point of buying a new lens... I have the 70-200 2.8 L glass, and love it.

I'm debating between 100-400 4.5 L and the 28-300 3.5 L

I was originally going to get the 100-400, then saw the 28-300 and now I'm stumped.

I like the lower f stop with the 28-300 but like the additional reach with the 400.

I'll be using them at HS football games... low light situation in the 4th quarter, and my 70-200 has been fantastic for that. Before I bought the 200L I just used a 75-300 regular canon lens... (which I still have) but it just didn't work in the 4th quarter in October.

I'll also be using it for wrestling, which I'm not as concerned about because wrestling matches are in well lit gymnasiums. :)

I thought about just picking up a non-L lens in the 400 range with the IS... but after using the L lens... I don't think I can use anything else. :( spoiled me it did.

I do have "clearance" to stand on the sidelines if I want to, but prefer to stay on the 50 yard line in the bleachers... I feel like I get better shots up there than at field level.

My question is, from you experienced users, what will be the differences between the 2 lenses? I don't have a problem putting the 70-200 on for the last quarter if I have to...

I've also considered buying the 1.4x II Lens Extender, but realize that I lose an f stop with that... but my other question is, does the extender affect the auto focus or IS features of the lens? Canon says it doesn't ... I know with our Canon AE, the extender does affect the ability to auto focus--though it's an old camera, and I'm sure they've made advances, I just want to make sure.

But, with an extender my 200 L would become 300 with 3.8, nearly the same as the 300 lens... I'm so confused! LOL

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