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Coneflowers: Shortest Coneflowers?

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cedarnest
Northeast, NE
(Zone 5a)

August 6, 2007
2:23 PM

Post #3823852

I adore coneflowers.I want to add some new ones to the front of my beds.Can anyone tell me some of the shorter cultivars?

GardenGuyKin

GardenGuyKin
Portland, OR
(Zone 8a)

August 6, 2007
3:40 PM

Post #3824146

Hi Cedarnest,
Are you looking for Annuals or Perennials?
cedarnest
Northeast, NE
(Zone 5a)

August 6, 2007
3:49 PM

Post #3824174

Hi GardenGuyKin, I have a large perennial bed I would like to add low growing coneflowers in the front.I tried white swan but they are about the same height as my double deckers and block the view of them so I need to move them back a bit.

Edited to add: I will ask at the garden center this weekend.


This message was edited Aug 6, 2007 4:09 PM
Christabelle
Zeeland, MI

August 6, 2007
11:06 PM

Post #3825975

Cedarnest,

I have a few suggestions. Echinacea 'After Midnight' height is only around 12". Both Echinacea 'Pink Double Delight' and 'Little Giant' are 18-24". I think a white Echinacea would look really nice in front of your 'Double Decker' (which is 40" heigh, according to my info) and a shorter white Echinacea is 'Virgin', which is only 20-24". Another white suggestion that I would have it 'Coconut Lime' which gets 24-30".

Hope this helps you!
susybell
Vancouver, WA
(Zone 8a)

August 6, 2007
11:15 PM

Post #3825998

My Kim's Knee High is probably about a foot tall. Raspberry Tart is only a little bit taller, and it's a darker magenta-ish raspberry. I don't know how different it is than After Midnight, though.
bigcityal
Menasha, WI
(Zone 5a)

August 7, 2007
1:58 AM

Post #3826676

After Midnight,Jade,Pixie Meadowbright from what I've seen for myself.
cedarnest
Northeast, NE
(Zone 5a)

August 7, 2007
2:22 AM

Post #3826775

Wow thanks everyone.I never realized there was such a difference in heights between cultivars.It looks like I have alot of options to work with. Looks like I get to go shopping again : ) Thank you all for your help!
Nancy
pennefeather
McLean, VA
(Zone 6b)

August 7, 2007
3:07 AM

Post #3826946

Kim's Knees, and Kim's Mophead are two great choices. My After midnight is too tall for the front of a bed.

victorgardener

victorgardener
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
(Zone 6b)

August 9, 2007
5:59 PM

Post #3836774

My Kim's Knee High started small but I have re-named them Kim's Butt High.
pennefeather
McLean, VA
(Zone 6b)

August 10, 2007
2:10 PM

Post #3839942

OH my goodness!

carrielamont

carrielamont
Milton, MA
(Zone 6a)

August 11, 2007
6:30 PM

Post #3844918

LOL Victor!!! Irrepressible!

Really, though? About the knee-highs?

xx, Carrie

DonnieBrook

DonnieBrook
Southwest , NH
(Zone 5b)

August 11, 2007
6:44 PM

Post #3844955

Can anyone post a pic of the Kim's Knee High? ...or Butt High...whichever...:)

victorgardener

victorgardener
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
(Zone 6b)

August 11, 2007
8:17 PM

Post #3845290

Yes, they are the size of regular ones - about 3 ft high. Louise, I'll check, but they look like the standard purple coneflower. They're just supposed to be shorter.

carrielamont

carrielamont
Milton, MA
(Zone 6a)

August 11, 2007
11:41 PM

Post #3845916

Am I correct in observing coneflowers getting a lot bigger the 2nd or 3rd year?

DonnieBrook

DonnieBrook
Southwest , NH
(Zone 5b)

August 11, 2007
11:47 PM

Post #3845944

Thanks, Victor. I'm trying to recall the really short one I saw at Elizabeth Park in Hartford. I loved how short it was for the front of the border. Any idea which one I'm trying to think of?
teacup754
College Station, TX
(Zone 8b)

August 12, 2007
10:18 PM

Post #3849230

I have a Kim's Mophead that is in its second year and about 1 1/2 foot high. it had great white blooms, but now seems to be resting in the unbelievable heat and humidity we've had the last week.

DonnieBrook

DonnieBrook
Southwest , NH
(Zone 5b)

August 12, 2007
11:09 PM

Post #3849443

Teacup - That sounds like what I'm looking for...thanks for that tip...I'll put it on my list for spring!
pennefeather
McLean, VA
(Zone 6b)

August 12, 2007
11:31 PM

Post #3849537

Kim's mophead - 1 1/2 feet, first year.

Thumbnail by pennefeather
Click the image for an enlarged view.

pennefeather
McLean, VA
(Zone 6b)

August 12, 2007
11:35 PM

Post #3849549

Kim's Knees = 2 - 2 1/2 feet, first year.

Thumbnail by pennefeather
Click the image for an enlarged view.

bigcityal
Menasha, WI
(Zone 5a)

August 13, 2007
2:08 AM

Post #3850173

Nice Penn. I think I've seen some KK at a site I work at, it does have unique form and color.
pennefeather
McLean, VA
(Zone 6b)

August 19, 2007
12:50 AM

Post #3872462

I went to two different nurseries this week to look for coneflowers. It was interesting to see the differences. It seems that coneflowers can grow alot taller than the given range, when they are planted under ideal conditions, and taken care of. They can also be considerably shorter as well - I would assume that is when they are not grown under ideal conditions or it could be that they are a slightly mutated strain.

I saw harvest moon at two nurseries. One was only about 1 1/2 foot high and blooming. The other one was about 2 1/2 feet. Kims's knees was considerably shorter at one nursery as well (probably about a foot difference - all plants were blooming). White swan had the greatest variation in height. It ranged from 2 1/2 feet to 4 feet. I didn't have the opportunity to compare the growers, since I didn't know that I would be visiting a second nursery the next day.

So I guess the moral is that if you want a shorter version, try to find one that is short in the nursery, and then don't give it ideal conditions.

DonnieBrook

DonnieBrook
Southwest , NH
(Zone 5b)

August 19, 2007
12:55 AM

Post #3872486

Wow, Penne - I actually think I can handle that!! :)

victorgardener

victorgardener
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
(Zone 6b)

August 19, 2007
1:04 AM

Post #3872506

I ignored my Kim's Knees and they are now giants.
pennefeather
McLean, VA
(Zone 6b)

August 19, 2007
1:15 AM

Post #3872563

Victor,

You must have great soil!

victorgardener

victorgardener
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
(Zone 6b)

August 19, 2007
1:17 AM

Post #3872571

Maybe, but I wanted short ones!! I call them Kim's Butt-hi now.
pennefeather
McLean, VA
(Zone 6b)

August 19, 2007
2:03 AM

Post #3872794

Victor,

You might be interested in baby white. It is supposed to be a dwarf version of white swan. I haven't grown this myself, but it looks very interesting. I might try some of these next spring.

http://www.hazzardsgreenhouse.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=E6908&Category_Code=PEG&Store_Code=Hazwho

Thumbnail by pennefeather
Click the image for an enlarged view.

victorgardener

victorgardener
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
(Zone 6b)

August 19, 2007
2:03 AM

Post #3872795

Thank you.
bigcityal
Menasha, WI
(Zone 5a)

August 19, 2007
2:10 AM

Post #3872823

I've heard of Cygnet White. Never seen seeds or plants of it under that name.

I stil haven't pulled the trigger on Paronoia from PD yet either.

victorgardener

victorgardener
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
(Zone 6b)

August 19, 2007
2:10 AM

Post #3872826

Afraid to??
bigcityal
Menasha, WI
(Zone 5a)

August 19, 2007
2:11 AM

Post #3872834

$ I guess.

carrielamont

carrielamont
Milton, MA
(Zone 6a)

August 19, 2007
5:38 PM

Post #3874575

I found "baby white" at that nursery Tabasco was talking about - maybe on another thread? Jelitto's maybe? Can't remember. The only problem with Joyce Hazzard's seeds is you need to buy 250 or 500 seeds at a time. Joyce is great, though.

xxx, Carrie
pennefeather
McLean, VA
(Zone 6b)

August 20, 2007
12:05 PM

Post #3877107

Carrie, there are probably several people around this forum who might be interested if you are considering getting some seeds - like me. I don't need several hundred coneflowers either. I was also considering the prima donna or ruby star as well.
shebs45
Chicago, IL
(Zone 5b)

August 25, 2007
7:32 PM

Post #3899527

I just received an email from Park Seeds describing a dwarf coneflower called "Lilliput".
http://www.parkseed.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?storeId=10101&catalogId=10101&langId=-1&mainPage=prod2working&ItemId=41518&cid=pem000641
It looks pretty.

DonnieBrook

DonnieBrook
Southwest , NH
(Zone 5b)

August 25, 2007
8:26 PM

Post #3899666

Thanks for that link, Shebs. I think that's just what I've been looking for!
bigcityal
Menasha, WI
(Zone 5a)

August 25, 2007
11:08 PM

Post #3900054

Garden Crossings has Lilliput too, much better plants.
http://www.gardencrossings.com/

victorgardener

victorgardener
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
(Zone 6b)

August 25, 2007
11:22 PM

Post #3900091

I second GC as a great source. You will definitely spend a penny with them but you get quality material and great customer service.
sammigirl
Orangeville, ON
(Zone 5a)

August 26, 2007
6:24 PM

Post #3902364

I just bought Lilliput today
supposedly only grows 12" to 18" tall
going to put that at the front of a bed

and then I bought Pink Double Delight
supposedly half the height of Razzmatazz but twice the number of blooms
going to put that in front of the Razzmatazz that I have
shebs45
Chicago, IL
(Zone 5b)

August 26, 2007
6:53 PM

Post #3902454

sammigirl,
That will be nice. Did you buy your selections from a local nursery?
Sharon

DonnieBrook

DonnieBrook
Southwest , NH
(Zone 5b)

August 26, 2007
7:20 PM

Post #3902525

Victor and Al - a double recommendation from you two re: Garden Crossings did me in!! I lost my head and bought not only Lilliput but Pink Double Delight and After Midnight as well. Yikes!
They're probably all hybrids so I can't propagate them...right?? Oh well! That's my only big splurge this summer...gulp!

Sammi - I have the same thing in mind that you are going to do...good luck with yours!!

victorgardener

victorgardener
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
(Zone 6b)

August 26, 2007
9:19 PM

Post #3902925

I haven't even started my Fall GC order yet! Did Fairweather on Friday. The GC guys are top-notch.
sammigirl
Orangeville, ON
(Zone 5a)

August 27, 2007
11:20 AM

Post #3904730

hey Sharon
yes - got them from a local nursery
more $$ thanI had planned on , but , oh well, life is short !
also bought Coconut Lime
Judy

carrielamont

carrielamont
Milton, MA
(Zone 6a)

August 30, 2007
3:08 PM

Post #3917830

Can I grow Lilliput from seeds?

x, C

DonnieBrook

DonnieBrook
Southwest , NH
(Zone 5b)

August 31, 2007
1:42 AM

Post #3919926

My plants arrived from GC and are happily soaking up the rain we're getting right now..Yay! Victor and Al - you were right...the plants are very healthy! I'm still feeling terribly compulsive about buying all three...but 100 years from now, who will remember that I lost my head??!!

victorgardener

victorgardener
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
(Zone 6b)

August 31, 2007
1:51 AM

Post #3919949

Congrats Louise. I'm sure you won't regret it!

carrielamont

carrielamont
Milton, MA
(Zone 6a)

September 1, 2007
12:06 AM

Post #3923588

So, Louise, whadja get?

x, C

DonnieBrook

DonnieBrook
Southwest , NH
(Zone 5b)

September 1, 2007
6:01 PM

Post #3925710

I got Lilliput, After Midnight and Pink Double Delight. With the rain we've had, they are looking very healthy in their new homes. I'll be anxious to see them do their thing next summer!! Now I still need one of the white varieties, but that will have to wait a year...or I may get one for Florida this winter and see if I can harvest some seeds for here. I doubt that will work with a white one though...unless one of you can tell me of a white variety that is an heirloom. I'd guess they may all be hybrids.

carrielamont

carrielamont
Milton, MA
(Zone 6a)

September 1, 2007
11:06 PM

Post #3926661

I think baby swan is a short white but I'm not sure where to get seed.

x. C
DawnLL

(Zone 4a)

October 8, 2007
2:18 AM

Post #4059513

Ugh I need short ones!!! Can't seem to find them here...I have decided (sorry folks) that my clematis are my primary plants so I need shorter plants in front and I love the coneflowers! I guess I can't have it all eh?

carrielamont

carrielamont
Milton, MA
(Zone 6a)

October 9, 2007
1:50 PM

Post #4064659

I'm not sure I follow the connection between clematis and coneflowers...?

DonnieBrook

DonnieBrook
Southwest , NH
(Zone 5b)

October 9, 2007
9:00 PM

Post #4065814

Carrie - I think Dawn doesn't want tall coneflowers that will block the view of the clematis flowers that are growing behind her front border. I have the same situation with mine. My clematis are draping over a 4-foot fence, and I have to keep the flowers in front of it fairly low in order not to miss the clematis when it blooms.

carrielamont

carrielamont
Milton, MA
(Zone 6a)

October 9, 2007
9:03 PM

Post #4065822

OK, I get it now. I'm want short cone-flowers so I can see them without having to look up at them!

DonnieBrook

DonnieBrook
Southwest , NH
(Zone 5b)

October 9, 2007
9:05 PM

Post #4065827

I gotcha! I like them all, but in different locations, I like different heights. My favorites are the low, bushy ones!
DawnLL

(Zone 4a)

October 14, 2007
2:09 AM

Post #4080228

So from what I am gathering Lilliput, After Midnight and Pink Double Delight would be excellent choices for shorter varieties near my clematis?? Would that be reasonable to say?

Would anyone have some of the above mentioned seeds they would want to give out?? Postage paid of course?

This message was edited Oct 14, 2007 7:08 AM

carrielamont

carrielamont
Milton, MA
(Zone 6a)

October 14, 2007
1:29 PM

Post #4081191

Dawn, I don't remember if it's been said, but many coneflower cultivars don't come true from seed! xx, C
bigcityal
Menasha, WI
(Zone 5a)

October 14, 2007
1:35 PM

Post #4081206

Dawn - was I sending you anything already? I might have a few shorter ones for you to try. Send me a dmail, otherwise I won't remember.
They might not be fully true yes. I have 2 tests that will be flowering next year.
DawnLL

(Zone 4a)

October 14, 2007
3:11 PM

Post #4081466

Ok thanks :)
loves_lavender
Granite City, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 15, 2008
3:39 PM

Post #4955024

Hi, all!

DonnieBrook, Where did you get your After Midnight and Pink Double Delight? I mail-ordered After Midnight from ForestFarm, but it was rather puny for $8.95 each. It's in the ground, so we'll see how it does! I haven't found the shorter varieties locally, but I am still looking! :)

Thanks!

Nicole

victorgardener

victorgardener
Lower Hudson Valley, NY
(Zone 6b)

May 15, 2008
3:44 PM

Post #4955050

Garden Crossings carries both.

DonnieBrook

DonnieBrook
Southwest , NH
(Zone 5b)

May 15, 2008
4:11 PM

Post #4955206

Hi Nicole. On the advice of Victor and Al, I ordered mine from Garden Crossings. They have all come up nicely this spring.
loves_lavender
Granite City, IL
(Zone 6a)

June 3, 2008
8:38 PM

Post #5047628

Well, my 'After Midnight' bit the dust. I can't blame the company, as I have been having cat problems and trying all sorts of preventatives. We have a lot of strays in our neighborhood (and one next door) that are using my flower beds as their litter box. The plant was partially damaged and covered in mulch when I discovered it was dying... I will try another company next time, I just was not all that impressed with Forest Farm.

Thanks!

Nicole

DonnieBrook

DonnieBrook
Southwest , NH
(Zone 5b)

June 4, 2008
6:00 PM

Post #5052780

Sorry to hear that, Nicole. That is so frustrating! I can report that my 3 garden crossings cones are looking just great here now that they've started to grow. Good luck!
Louise

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