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Peppers: New Hot Pepper project

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smokemaster
North Hills, CA

September 17, 2007
12:25 AM

Post #3982982

I have a Tree Habanero (Habanero Arbol) that is 2-3 yrs. old.
It puts out peppers that start out green and purple,then turn yellow and ripen to be orange peppers.
The tree gets 7ft. high when I don't trim it.

I am going to try and graft all my other habanero pepper plants to it.
One plant growing branches of other peppers(paper lanterns,red,orange,chocolate and white habs,mushroom peppers and a couple more.)

If/when the chinense all take I'll try and add other peppers-Jalapino,anaheim etc.
Get as many different peppers growing on one tree as I can.

The seed that grew the tree was from a plant that was about 8ft.tall and was supposed to be 13 yrs. old.

Does anyone know anything about grafting hot peppers?

Any kind of juice to give the plant before,during,after I start grafting?

Any hints etc.

How close together,in space(close together on a branch) and time can I do the grafts?

Should I wait between grafts for any period of time before adding a new graft?

Once I graft a branch on can I graft a branch to the healed grafted branch?

Can I graft a branch to a plant in the ground, then graft that branch to the tree once it's healed(killing 2 birds with 1 stone-adding 2 kinds of pepper to the tree at once using 1 graft).

If the tree successfully accepts the grafts and I decide that it's getting old,do you think I could graft it to new rootstock (another tree habanero from the original plants seed) to keep it growing for a longer time period?

That way I wouldn't have wasted possibly years of work grafting stuff to the tree only to have it die of old age.

What does grafting do to the rootstocks plant and the grafted bud?
Do they stay true to their species or do I get some kind of mutant peppers growing off the grafted branches?
Does it change the host plant?
Do I still get peppers?
Will the seeds be sterile from a grafted pepper?
Will the pepper seeds be some kind of hybrid-from the grafted branch?

T= tree habanero
g1=graft branch from plant #1
g2=graft branch from plant #2
g1 and g2 are different varieties of pepper plant.

Will I get different peppers if I graft
g2 to T then graft g1 to g2
than if I grafted
g1 to T then grafted g2 to g1?

Both grafts will allow each branch to have it's own growth-let it produce peppers-each has branches of it's own.

Would it make a difference if g1 and g2 were red habanero and orange habanero as opposed to g1 being red habanero and g2 being a mushroom pepper as far as the possibility of comming out with mutant peppers,hybrids or whatever?

Could my main plant get a disease or whatever from a grafted plant? (disease not caused by a dirty cutting knife-one from the bud/plant to be grafted to the tree)
If so,can I just cut off the branch the graft is on to eliminate the problem or would the tree be infected?
If the tree is resitant to certain viruses will the grafts become resistant too?
Say I graft a branch that has tmv to the tree.(I'll probably be grafting new plants,seedlings cut off at the trunk, to the tree,I think they might be less prone to carrying diseases,haven't been exposed to aphids etc.grown indoors).
The tree is resistant,will it cure the branch,let the virus grow only in the grafted branch,or spread to the tree and all the other grafts.

My tree Habanero pretty much puts out peppers year round(Though less in the winter),will the grafts put out peppers year round too?

I've read a lot of stuff about grafting.
Peppers can be grafted-supposed to be easy,not a hard plant to graft successfully.So I've read...
Just use good,healthy buds and keep everything as clean as possible.

I've never heard of anyone attempting to graft several different varieties to one pepper plant.

I've done it/multiple grafts to cactus and seen multiple apple varieties done with apple trees.

I guess thats all my questions for now.
Anything I haven't considered?
This should be fun and lots of work.

I'm going to plant several tree habanero tree plants to graft other peppers to.
Then I'll cut them off at the trunk and graft them to the tree.
See if the tree accepts that easier than straight grafts to it of other varieties.

What time of year would be best to start my project?

I wonder what the record is for the number of different flavors of hot peppers to one plant is.

Egore get my scalpel!
Bwahhaaaahaaaahaaa

This message was edited Sep 16, 2007 4:27 PM
HERBIE43
Rutland , MA
(Zone 5b)

September 17, 2007
12:25 PM

Post #3984310

i have never heard of this but i would love to see some pictures of this tree.
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

September 17, 2007
12:36 PM

Post #3984338

Since peppers are annuals for me, I'd never even thought about grafting them... but I'm looking forward to hearing the results of your experiments!

I wonder if cross-species grafts will work? I think I'd stick with grafting on other varieties of C. chinense, at least to start with. I've also never heard of grafting anything that's not a "woody" plant (although you did mention cactus), but on the other hand I can't think of a reason why this wouldn't work. :-)

smokemaster
North Hills, CA

September 17, 2007
2:26 PM

Post #3984741

I need to find out if my tree seeds are true to the mother plant before I possibly risk damage by experimenting with my original.

I have several new plants that are a couple months old.

They look like the mother and one had similar peppers(I pulled them off before they ripened to try and get the plant to grow bigger and branch out more).I won't let them fruit this year.
I also topped them at about 2ft.-3ft.
I didn't top my original till last spring,after it was a year+old and between 6 and 7ft. tall by 6ft. wide(actually it was a little wider than tall I think).

Maybe by this spring I'll have started my grafting experiments with the new plants and have some healed grafts on apractice plant.
My habaneros are about done and I should be able to find a good branch to use pretty soon.
I'll trim them when I pick the last peppers-it sometimes gets it to blossum again when I trim it after harvest.Sure is nice living in Ca. where we don't get much winter.

I trimmed the branches of the big one(mother Plant) down about a foot and cut the branches down to a couple feet long to get it to grow new branches.
I trimmed it a few days ago-a week at most.
It has new growth at every branch end and node where I pulled off the dead growth or trimmed a branch.

It's also putting out new flower buds up top.
I think I'll pick them off tomorrow-I needed something to stand on to reach them and didn't want to hassle with it today.

Either way.The tree looks like she is co operating in getting bushed out so I'll have lots of growth to play with in a couple weeks.
One thing I read said grafting new growth to new growth is supposed to be better for what I'm doing-except it was for some flowering bush of some kind.

Last year I didn't trim her and the branches were about 4ft. long before I trimmed her.
The branches were drooping because of the weight of the peppers.

A couple branches I had to tie up because they were bending too much and messing with the pepper plants below them.
Knocking stuff around when it got breezy.

Last christmas the tree had tons of peppers on it so I think it should not be dormant and have grown it's new branches and filled back out by then.

I think I'll give it some fish emultion today too.A shot of nitrogen should help it bulk up.

By the way,all my peppers are in containers.

I guess I should get a digital camera for pics as I go along.
I'm going to see if anyone at the nursery has any helpful advice.

I hope people post advice on grafting peppers for me.
Most of the stuff on the net isn't very helpful.
It's about fruit trees or grafting rootstock-not grafting like I want to do.
If the same methods work for branches as do with rootstock I should be ok.
Either way I have some smaller victims to mess with and a bunch of seeds from the original plant that I think are ok that I can sprout for more experiments.

Some of the buds were wrapped up and others were glued.
Glueing kills a lot of buds off but when it works your pretty sure about the seed purity.

http://www.virtualpepper.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38&start=15&forum_lang=english

Time to get off work and hit the sack.








KevinTernes
Goodlettsville, TN
(Zone 6a)

September 17, 2007
5:12 PM

Post #3985347

smokemaster,
This is a very interesting project. I hope you'll keep careful notes, take a lot of photos and post your results (good or bad!) to this forum. Good luck with it!
-Kevin
HERBIE43
Rutland , MA
(Zone 5b)

September 18, 2007
10:49 AM

Post #3988080

pictures, i want pictures
jab91864
Northern Michigan, MI
(Zone 5a)

September 18, 2007
11:03 AM

Post #3988101

I had no clue that peppers grew into trees... boy do I feel dumb...lol.

Since it's an annual for me I just figured it was pretty much an annual everywhere. Always learn something new here !!

Julie =0)
smokemaster
North Hills, CA

September 19, 2007
2:46 AM

Post #3991653

What little I found out about Habanero Arbol (habanero tree pepper) is that it's some kind of wild variety,or relative to one that grows in the mountains of south America somewhere(I forget where).
The peppers look like golden bullet peppers in size.
They are pointed at the end and most have triangle shaped sides-if you look at it with the point pointed at you they look triangular rather than round.
I had some info about the pepper saved on a computer who's hard drive took a dump.
It was hard to find info on this pepper.
I even found a seller of these habaneros but can't find where I got the info from.
I found it in a pepper database somewhere at one time.

My plant was from a local grower/supplier.
The supplier said the mother plant was braught back from South america somewhere.It was about 8ft. high and 13yrs.old.
I guess they use it's seed to grow a limited number of seedlings from it each year.
The plant grows lots of peppers.Mine looks like a christmas tree most of the year.
You could grow a lot of seedlings if you wanted to-thousands wouldn't be hard if you used all the seeds.
I have a couple hundred seeds from the first year saved and it took only a few peppers to get them.They are still good,I easily get 90 percent germination rate if not more(this spring and summer).

I got my plant from Green thumb nursery up the street about 3 years ago.
The employees have one a year younger than mine in the back.
It's in a lot smaller container and is only about 4ft. high maybe a little more.
My containers are probaby 15gal..Their plant is in a 1or 2 gal. one.

They have another pepper in the back thats a mini tree only 3 ft high.
I think it would get a lot bigger but it's now in a 1or2 ga. container with a couple other pepper plants.
It has grey leaves that are pointed and skinny-willow leaf shaped.
The peppers are green then black then red when ripe.
I have some seeds and will sprout them soon.
I killed a couple cuttings trying to root them.

I think it will get at least 5-6ft. high if repotted.
It's still putting out buds and peppers so it might have some of my habaneros traits.
I'd like to get a collection of pepper trees that are year round,heavy producers.

It would be cool to also have a garden with only a couple plants that grow several different peppers on each plant.
I could have any number of peppers to choose from at any given time on only a few plants.

I've seen fruit cocktail trees advertised in nursery adds.They are fruit trees that have several fruit branches grafted on to them.

Why not peppers.
Mole trees,go to 1 plant and get the varieties of peppers needed to make Mole.
Hot sauce tree,grows different combos of peppers that make good hot sauce.
One for mild,med. or hot.
Just choose varieties that are similar in heat to graft to one plant.
I'm starting with habaneros.


Right now I don't have a camera of any kind to take pics.
Maybe if I find one I can afford I'll get one.
Cameras and watches don't last long in my possesion for some reason.
They get trashed real soon after I get them.
They go for a swim in a lake,rained on or get smashed in some way.
Cameras usually go for a swim or get dropped or bounced around too much when I go fishing.They get left in places where they get knocked off and fall on the ground too.
Watches last about a week before I smack them on something and crack the crystal.
Tried pocket watches-I still break them-just takes a week longer.
Pocket ones smash real good on fishing boat rails in rough water(on my belt or in my pocket).

I would like to get pics though,especially if I succeed in getting a plant to accept several grafts and it produces different peppers at the same time.





smokemaster
North Hills, CA

September 24, 2007
5:04 AM

Post #4010662

I messed around with the garden today.
I went through 2 of my pots looking for grubs.
I found several.
I have 10 or11 more large pots to go through.

I didn't know why a couple plants in the same container would be doing great but one would start dropping leaves.
One habanero fell over and when I went to stand it back up and stake it up it seemed like the roots on one side were gone.

Today I found grubs near the stems of any plant that was dropping leaves.
I was finding a lot of the metalic blue june bugs dead on the ground a few weeks ago.They are probably the cause of my grub problem.
I thaught the nematodes(Steinernema Feltiae) I put in the pots were supposed to take care of the grubs.

I hope none get in the container that has the tree in it.
I don't think I can repot it without hurting it right now-I just trimmed it way down and it's all new growth right now.
Hardly any old leaves on it at all.I don't want to shock it.
When I emptied the pots I noticed the bottom 3 inches were very wet sludge.
It looked like a mix of clay or fine sand and organic matter.

I use a mix of 2/3rds cactus mix and regular planter mix (composted bark etc.)in my containers.
I think the finer parts of sand and the decomposing bark made the sludge in the bottom of my containers.
I mixed in some cactus mix to lighten up the sludge and put wicks sticking out the bottom of the pots for better drainage(as posted in the sticky on the container board).
I found tons of worms in the containers too.
Other than the last 3 inches the rest of the pot seemed to have an even amount of moisture in it and the plants roots seemed OK-except the ones that got munched by grubs.
I think the soil will be ok with the added cactus mix.

By the time I'm done de-grubbing my pots I'll know if the pots that only have cactus mix in them are draining better and have any sludge in the bottom compared to the ones with planter mix added to the cactus mix in them.
We just had rain so if thats as much water as the pots retain they'll be fine as far as drainage goes.
The roots don't go that far down yet and when they do go down that far I think the sludge will have washed out the holes in the pot.

I did my first graft today.
A branch on one of my paper lanterns was growing in a direction I didn't like so I cut it off.
It was about 6 inches long with a 2 inch branch comming off it.
Both parts of the branch had new leaves on them.

I cut a branch end off the tree and split the trees branch down the middle about 3/4 inch.
I cut the lanterns branch on 2 sides to form a V about 3/4 inch long and inserted it in the split I put in the trees branch.
I used rubbing alcahol on the knife before making the cuts.

The trees branch was bigger than the Lanterns branch.
Most of the pictures I see of this kind of graft show the rootstock bigger than the branch your grafting on to it
I wrapped the branch with some waxed thread and sealed it with Bonide brand pruning sealer and tree wound dressing.The can says you can use it for grafts.

I might not have had to wrap the graft with thread.
The trees branch held it pretty firmly and the lanterns branch was pretty light.I don't think the wind would have been able to move it.I don't think there was any airspace between the rootstock and the branch I inserted into the split in the tree branch.

When I do more grafts at a time I'll see if there is any difference between using wax,tape or the sealer for grafting.
Since I don't know what time of year etc. that your supposed to graft pepper plants I think I'll just do 1 or 2 grafts at a time to see if they work or not.
If they work I'll start cutting the tops off my seedlings to use as grafts.

If the seedlings are big enough when I top them I'll experiment with grafting stuff to the rootstock in hopes of 1 day having plants with a couple kinds of peppers on them that I can graft to my tree.
That way I might be able to add a couple different pepper varieties at one time to the tree instead of doing them 1 kind of pepper at a time on the tree.

Time to hurry up and wait.







This message was edited Sep 23, 2007 9:08 PM

This message was edited Sep 23, 2007 9:50 PM
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

September 24, 2007
11:56 AM

Post #4011003

My fingers are crossed!
smokemaster
North Hills, CA

September 25, 2007
7:53 AM

Post #4014577

Info on rootstock graft experiments -disease resistance.

http://s97783203.oneandoneshop.com/journals/36n2/137.pdf

So thats why Iran and others want to blow up Isreal.
They want their super duper pepper grafting process.
They want to make pepper spray missles to guard their nuke power plants...

Looks like I should be able to graft Annuums to several other pepper types-Chinense,Baccatums...See data on PDF.

Hopefully I'll find more stuff on pepper grafting.
Garden web has some unclear pics in a slideshow that,to me,don't show much of anything.
Might be a couple plants next to each other-supposed to be Serrano,Jalipino and Habanero-if I remember right.
I hope it's for real-encouraging.
I think my grafts going to get cooked by the sun in the next couple days-90 degrees plus temps are expected.

Check this out,I might have found what I was looking for...
I can do it inside with my victims-seedlings.

Look at the tongue graft.
Sounds much less risky than the other grafts that either take or die.Both plants have roots until the graft heals.

http://www.hort.uconn.edu/ipm/greenhs/htms/Tomgraft.htm

I can do this in my 72 compartment seed sprouting tray.
Put a tree habanero in the middle of 8 compartments containing a different kind of pepper plant each.
I can start 8 or 9 grafts on different plants at a time(depending on placement of compartments and seeds that sprout all at once).
That would be cool if a good number of the plants all took at once.I'd get several grafted plants at once,all with totally different pepper varieties.
If I succeded in making 9 plants with even 2 successfull grafts each,then grafted then to each other I'd end up done grafting a lot sooner.
If each plant took one out of it's 6 grafts succesfully I'd graft the six plants to make 3 plants,Plant empty cells with replacements for whatever didn't work and died.
Assuming they die,they might just heal themselves and be able to be used to try again-since they have a root.
3 plants would then be 1 plant with 4 grafts and 1 with 3 and several new ones with 1 plant being grafted to it.
The tree habanero grows a few long branches rather than a lot of smaller ones to form a bush.
It would be better for the main plant that everything ends up getting grafted to.

I think once the branches got long enough I would try doing the same graft to branches with rooted seedlings.
If it worked on branches I could do any number of grafts at a time.As many as I have seedlings and branches.
I would have to put the seedlings in small pots though first so I could place them under different branches.

Do the double leader thing in the picture with red and yellow manzano peppers-red on one side yellow on the other.

Now I still have to find out if there is anything that I should juice my plants with that might make them heal better-potasium,nitrogen,whatever they might need more of while being grafted.
Maybe not watering the plant thats going to be cut off might help it start taking nutrients from the rootstock faster.
I'll have to try it...
I gotta find more info.
Seems like for everything I find on the net it only offers a scrap of something different from the other sites.
I guess I have a lot more to read to learn what I want to know.

I probably should see if I can get my printer running in case these links go away.

I'll find some highschool kid to format a dvd so I can index it with this stuff so I don't have to watch the whole thing to find the article I want to re read.
Thats if they are copyable that way.
I'm computer illiterate.
I only know stuff thats great for screwing up my computer.LOL
Usually by the time I learn to do something it's not done that way anymore.

New games to play with my toys.I'm having fun now.




This message was edited Sep 25, 2007 1:44 AM
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

September 25, 2007
1:27 PM

Post #4015026

Thanks for that link! I might just have to play around with grafting tomato seedlings next spring...

:-)
smokemaster
North Hills, CA

September 25, 2007
8:16 PM

Post #4016294

I'd say 99 percent of the stuff I found was for grafting tomato rootstock to increase production or fight disease.
Tons of tomato info regarding grafting.
The rest is for watermelon,squash,eggplant and a couple other veggies.

I'm still not clear as to if the rootstock is the barrier that stops disease from getting the plant or if just grafting a scion of a resistant plant to rootstock that isn't resistant would make the whole plant resistant.
Nutrients go from the leaves to the whole plant.
I wonder if the resistant characteristics of a branch would be spread to the whole plant.
I wonder if when the grafts are healing if the non resitant rootstock can infect/disease the plant before it has time to start using the resistant rootstock to grow.
If it can infect the plant.What happens when you cut off the non resistant plants roots.Does the resistant rootstock cure the plant?
All the data seems to be geared for finding what graphs to what and which plant has better resistance and yeild.

Interesting stuff.
mscheinost
Henderson, KY
(Zone 6a)

September 25, 2007
9:18 PM

Post #4016519

Hi,
Saw your notes about grafting. I just went to a ag extension meeting where one of the speakers was talking about grafting. The Asians, esp. Japan graft vegetables. They even have special small graft clips to hold the graft in place. Normally they graft the desired species onto root stock that is resistant to desease. In the case of tomatoes, it helps with ground diseases, but doesn't do much for the graft for airborne diseases and insect problems.
The grafted material should produce according to it's own genetics, the only things supplied by the roots are water and nutrients. However if you graft a bunch of different peppers on the same plant you would be more likely to get cross pollination of the flowers. Those seeds will not produce true to the parent stock. The fruit should be the same as the parent, but the seeds will be a hybrid.
In grafting, according to the ag agent, the graft and the recipient stems need to be the same thickness. They are cut at a 45 degree angle, you match them up, and put on one of these clips. It needs to be keep in almost 100% humidity until the graft takes. (I'm not sure how to do that with an 8 foot plant).

Mike
smokemaster
North Hills, CA

September 26, 2007
7:28 AM

Post #4018206

I decided to try doing the tongue graft in the last link(I think).

You graft 2 plant seedlings to each other,then cut the root off one after it heals.
I'll try it with a tree habanero seedling as rootstock-the one I keep the root on.

I'll try grafting several plants at a time in a 72 compartment seed sprouter, then hopefully graft each of the survivors to the tree or one of it's branches.Assuming some survive.
I can do the above inside my apt. in a box with a grow light.
I think they say in an article to keep the humidity at 95% and temps around 85degrees.

If things go right, I'll eventually have several grafts going at the same time on the tree and it's branches.

I'll still try and graft branches to the tree at the same time.
I'll try different types of grafts and parts of scion plants-different ages,branches,seedling tops,buds,new growth.old growth etc.any variation I can think of.

The leaves fell off the graft I did a couple days ago.I expected that.The graft doesn't seem to be too dried out yet.I have it wrapped in
damp paper towel and loosely with plastic.
It's been in the mid to high 80's here during the day.I half expected the graft to be dried up during the day.
I guess I'll have to wait and see if it survives.

One of the articles has a picture of the clips your posting about.
Check out the link about grafting with 2 rooted plants.
It's supposed to get a higher success rate.
They use it for other vegtables too.
One article is about Isreals research on getting disease resistant hot peppers by grafting.I think I passed one up about India and Australia doing grafting experaments too.
Pretty interesting stuff.
It will be fun if I succeed and get several peppers on one plant with grafts on grafts.
See what the seeds grow.
Endless possibilities of hybrids.
What combos are sterile,are any fruit seeds from my grafts stable(always put out the same seed charectoristics etc.) or will the seed be different from pepper to pepper each year(using isolation tech. for polination).

This (link below) works pretty good but you loose a lot of buds.
I think I might be putting the glue on too early sometimes and it kills the bud.
I'd rather kill buds than think I have pure seed when I don't.
All I need is a few peppers to play with,after a couple are fertilzed I can let the others do what they want.
They will still taste the same.

http://www.virtualpepper.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38&start=15&forum_lang=english

By isolating the buds I'll see if any changes occur in the grafts.
For instance some colors of roses could only be gotten from a grafted plant.
There are other instances where grafting produced changes in the scion-not allways but some combos do change flowers,fruit,or other plant characteristics.

I think that the rootstock can/might,in some instances, influence the scion.
I think photosynthesis sends stuff throughout the plant and so do the roots.
How much of whatever does or doesn't influence a graft is something I have to do more research on.
I just don't now enough about it.

Until I found the sites about grafting everyone I talked to at nurseries said they didn't think that vegtables were graftable because they aren't perenials for the most part.
But like everything else,too many people said I couldn't do it.
From then on I had to try grafting hot peppers or kill a ton of plants trying. LOL

Thanks for the advice.
Any input is greatly appreciated.

Now ifI could spell grafts (graphs) the same way each time I'd be on doing OK.









.
starlight1153
Seale, AL
(Zone 8b)

October 3, 2007
11:28 AM

Post #4043688

Ther alot of work going on with grafting on peppers. If you google grafting on pepers, it wil bring up alot of studies. Soem you cna acess and some ya can't unles you subscribe to those science magazine.

This is a long paper, but a new patent syrgentia applied for.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20050055743.html

If you can get through the junk part and down toward the end of the process, you can read how they took the plants and back crosse d them and the number of generations and then did the grafts and the savign of the seeds.

From what I have gathered from this report, it is getting a totally clean rootstock that helps stop the diseases and that the back crossing before grafting gives you a better root stock.







smokemaster
North Hills, CA

October 4, 2007
3:32 AM

Post #4046939

I read some of the stuff on the free patent sight when I was researching if anyone had a patent for any pepper plants that produced several kinds of peppers from 1 rootstock.

I too ran into the sites that you had to subscribe to.
Some sounded like they might have some good info but I can't see paying for a subscription for 1 article.
It would be good if I could find more on grafting several plants for fruit production(several kinds off one plant) but most of what I find is for disease control,plant size and early or longer fruiting time.

Thanks for the link.Interesting stuff.
smokemaster
North Hills, CA

October 8, 2007
3:11 PM

Post #4060978

First graft is history.
It died.

I think I'll wait till early spring when the days are cooler to graft the outside plant.

Right now I trimmed off the rest of the trees remaining older branches.

The ones I trimed before are doing great.
Some have peppers on them already.

I'm thinking of pulling off the new buds and peppers.
Maybe get the tree to bush out a little more while the freshly cut stuff catches up.

I have small plants that are in the starter container that I'm waiting to be big enough to be grafted to each other-roots intact.
I tried to plant them at the edges of the cell so they would be closer to each other when I connect them together.

Right now I have tree habanero,red savina,chili negro de arbol,paper lantern,chocolate habanero and orange habaneros in various stages of growth in the seed starter.

I guess I should put a heat mat under it to keep it at an even temp. when I graft them.The cover will provide the humidity.

Waiting for the plants to get a little bigger so I can graft them.
I am giving them 16-18 hours of light each day.
They are in a window that has southern exposure and I turn on the growlight a couple hours at sunset.

Maybe by the time the outside temps get cooler I'll have a couple plants grafted to the tree habanero seedlings that I'll then graft to the tree outside.
I'm going to use tree habanero rootstock to graft different pepper varieties to because if they take then I'll be grafting tree habanero plants with grafts to the tree habanero outside.
I think tree habaneros might graft easier to a tree habanero-the graft thats on the scion shouldn't matter.

A=any kind of pepper plant
B=tree habanero seedling
C=full grown tree habanero

Step 1
Graft A to B
Tongue graft in seed starter cells.
See link above-about 7 posts up if I counted right.

Step 2
Cut root off A after it connects to B
Let grow till it matches a branches diameter on outside tree habanero.

Step 3
Cut top off tree habanero and graft to tree habanero outside.
Seal with grafting paint/tar.
Wrap with damp paper towel and wrap all but the leaves with plastic to keep moist.

Step4
Make sacrafices (toss a virgin in a volcano) to the god of grafting and cross fingers.

Step 5
Repeat Step 1-4 and try different grafting unions to see which works best.

The seeds I'm using to grow the future grafts are from the original tree habanero.
I have lots of seeds from the mother plant.


starlight1153
Seale, AL
(Zone 8b)

October 8, 2007
9:10 PM

Post #4062212

Smokemaster... Too bad about the first graft. Bummer.

I was readign through your post and this one triggered somethign in my head from a small trees and shrubs class and though it thinking outside the box, I wonder if it might not work with your peppers.

I know with trees, if they are placed in close growing proximity to where say for an example a branch grows over the top of another branch and they lay tight up against each other that they will graft automatically together as one.

You wrote>... I have small plants that are in the starter container that I'm waiting to be big enough to be grafted to each other-roots intact.
I tried to plant them at the edges of the cell so they would be closer to each other when I connect them together.

I haven't heard of anybody trying it with plants before, but I wonder if you couldn't somehow bind several seedlings together, so that they would kind of have to grow together. If they were restricted tight with your glue/tar, I wonder if the stems wouldn't grow together enough eventually that you wouldn't have to try and graft them on to root stock.

I have taken Popcorn tree seedlings before when there were young and braided three together to get an interesting trunk. The thre e seedlings bond together as one unit. I know you can do the same with certain Hibiscus seedlinsg when they are young too, making braids out of them.

If ya get a few extra seedlings, you might think about a " Oh what the heck" experiment and see if it takes or not.

smokemaster
North Hills, CA

October 9, 2007
3:47 AM

Post #4063708

Down the street they have some kind of plant that they braided together.The braided trunk is 3 1/2 or so ft. long.
The 3 trunks don't seem to be connected like a graft but it looks cool.
As they grew bigger the braid seems to get tighter.
I think that they are still 3 plants though-3 root systems with the trunk growing braided together.
The place was a repo car sales lot thats abandoned.The plants about dead or dead I think.

Even if three pepper plants didn't join physically together that might be something cool to do anyway.
Then I'd have 3 varieties of rootstock to graft to even though it looks like one plant.

That would be really cool.

A group of 3 tree type pepper plants braided together with several other peppers grafted to them.

I bet if I cut down the light on some seedlings I could get them to grow really long.
That would make it easier to braid them together.
I just happen to have some sprouts to play with that might make good specimins to braid.They are about the same age and size.
Not long enough yet though.
Maybe I should plant them in a single pot before the cell gets rootbound.
That way I could put them in the dark so they wouldn't get the 16-18 hours of light I give my seedlings.
Make them long for braiding.
Once they get braided I could put them in regular light etc.

Thanks for the idea.

I wonder if I scape the bark off where the braids touch each other if they will connect physically,like a graft does.
The braid should hold them tight enough together and if I use wax instead of the tar stuff it would come off so you wouldn't have a black painted braided section.


Root stock from some varieties is more disease resistant than others.
I wonder if they joined at where I scraped the bark off if the whole plant would take on the disease resistance of whatever plant was resistant or if a disease can just go up another root system and infect the plant.

Either way braiding would make the plant more attractive.Especially if I can get a couple more peppers grafted to it.

The only downside I see is if one plant decides to die after a season and the others live.
Trying to get them to join as a graft in the braid might solve that problem.
The roots of any one could die but the roots of the other peppers could /might take over growing the top of the plant from where they are grafted on up.
Something to try out.

See how many different plants I can weave without breaking them.
I used to make lanyards as a kid.I know how to braid 3,4 and 6 strands.

I could weave the 4 strand square braid and run a 4 strand round braid up the middle.LOL

I think I'd have to grow hydroponic plants for more than 3 plants because of rooting space for each plant.
In soil I think they would fight it out for nutrients,not all would survive that close together.
Hydroponics would supply each plant with equal nutrients etc.


smokemaster
North Hills, CA

October 11, 2007
5:13 AM

Post #4070887

I went out to check out the new growth on my tree and noticed something weird.

A lot of the new growth looks strange.

On at least one old branch,wherever the new branch started to grow the old branch is swelled up.
Also a lot of the new branches are bigger in diameter than the branch they are growing off of-some are twice the diameter.

I also see that most branches are like wood,stiff brown and green-normal.

In places the old branches are dark,almost black and are rubbery.The tissue is totally different.
The new growth off these soft rubbery branches looks ok- wood like and green as it should be.
The rubbery branches are in separate areas.
An old branch can have several old branches comming off it that each have new growth thats all the same.
But one in the middle will be soft and weird.
The soft branches seem to be randomly spread out all over the plant.
The new growth comming off the rubbery stuff seems OK.
Whats going on.
Did I give my plant some disease when I tried grafting to it?or when I trimmed it?

If so shouldn't all of the branch be soft or can a disease/fungus,whatever just pick spots to mess with.

I don't see any evidense of bugs.
I haven't fertilized in a while or sprayed anything on the plant.

I did put worm casings on the top of the soil and watered it in a few days ago.
I've never heard of worm casings doing harm to a plant.
I only put a couple cups,if that, on top of a 15-20 gal. pot.

Could I have some critter that I can't see either digging into the plant (swollen knuckles,bigger diameter growth than the branch it's growing on) or soil/roots?

By the way,the tree is getting covered with buds.

Anybody know whats going on?
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

October 11, 2007
6:18 PM

Post #4072308

No clue... but "covered with buds" sounds like a good sign! Maybe this is just something that happens with older plants? ??
starlight1153
Seale, AL
(Zone 8b)

October 12, 2007
12:06 AM

Post #4073298

Don't know, but wonder, is it possible that th glue your using is somehow jamming up the xylem or the phloem. Just a thought.

I know I aroudn a friend who was workign with this experiment to try and make cut flowers have a longer self life. One of the ingredients that was in the mix was a type of a very , really , tiny , miniscule amount of a natural glue type base. When the flowers sucked it up, some lasted a few days longer, but most of them it clogged their intact system up.

I wonder if using that instant bandaid stuff that ya spray on wouldn't work for holding the graft and making a nice seal without gettign into the stems at all.
smokemaster
North Hills, CA

October 12, 2007
3:24 AM

Post #4074232

I thaught about the tar stuff maybe was doing something to the plant.
So a couple days ago I cut off the branch that the graft was on down to the next new growth,about 8 inches down on a 1/4 inch branch.
I was also afraid that if I left the thread I had tied the graft with it might cause problems if tha branch wanted to sprout.
It ends up that the part I cut off was dead to about half way to the new growth.
I pealed off the tar and split the cut off stem to see if I could see any reason why the graft didn't take.
There wasn't any mold or fungus residue or bug damage.I think the weather was just too hot.
Until a day or so ago it's been in the high 80's to low 90's.Mid 60's at night.
It's supposed to rain tonight and tomorrow.

I was thinking that maybe cutting the tree up might be stressing it.
It's been basically in the same soil since I planted it.I add compost etc. all the time.The planter looses about 1/3rd of it's soil mass every season.
Maybe it needs re potting into something bigger.
Maybe the growing of so much new stuff is the problem.
It has had all the old growth,including leaves cut off in 2 prunings.
Other than accidently breaking a branch off or cutting a stray branch here and there it never was pruned before.
I waited until the first pruning had grown a lot of new growth before I cut the rest of the old growth off.
I cut 3 ft. of the tree off the top and 2ft, off the branches.
Even the last branches I trimmed are growing branches and leaves that are about 1-2 inches long.
The first stuff I cut has 4-6 inches of growth now.
Even though the plant is just statring to come back it has almost as many leaves and branches as it ever had.
I pulled the baby peppers off it a couple days ago but then realised that there are literally hundreds of buds forming and it would be impossible to get them all without messing up all the new growth around them,I don't think I want to go after them with tweezers,so I'm leaving them alone.

I am supposed to fertilize soon-any day.I gotta check the calander.
Guess I'll do it after the rain and see if anything changes.
A lot more buds opened today.

I hope whatever is going on with it is just growing pains.
I really like that plant.It puts out the peppers year round and it seemed to be disease resistant too.
Bugs also seemed to prefere the other plants too.
I think the branches were too spread out and the aphids didn't like the lack of places to hide from the sun.
I'd hate to loose it.


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