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Article: Native American Honeysuckles and their cultivars: A word to the wise...

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Forum: Article: Native American Honeysuckles and their cultivarsReplies: 18, Views: 176
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Galva, IL

November 12, 2007
10:41 PM

Post #4186471

As a retired utility employee, let me add a warning to gardeners: Telephone and electric poles have easement rights on the property where they sit. They have the right, by this easement, to kill, cut, or remove any vegetation that might interfere with the pole, the lines, the meter, the supporting guy wires, the underground, the access to reach any of the equipment and the safety of equipment, employees and the public. I would never plant a valued plant where it can legally be destroyed. I would also never plant anything that can reach the lines. It's not that utilties hate the beauty of your beloved tree or vine, but, they have the responsibility for reliability and safety. Hope this reminder helps my gardening friends.
Abington, MA

August 25, 2008
3:11 PM

Post #5465273

Diane, I too work for a Utility and tried to explain this to a friend of mine whose prize Clematis was destroyed due to work done on the pole on which it was growing.
Hornick, IA
(Zone 4b)

November 1, 2009
11:05 PM

Post #7231372

I will give one more word to the wise.
Some native tribes and as well native Americans, had another use for the honeysuckle blossoms and leaves. they would toss large amounts in a slow stream or river or natural lake. they would do this to stupefy fish. The fish would either die or float on the surface long enough to be picked up with nets or spear or even by hand.
So if you have a small pond close by and have fish, like koi or just goldfish, don't let the two be close enough for the leaves and or blossoms to fall into your pond. Kiwi seems to have the same effect.
I too love the fragrance of honeysuckles. Just wanted to pass this on for info only.
Mount Vernon, KY

November 2, 2009
1:16 AM

Post #7231833

As children we use to pull off the blossom and suck the sweet nectar out of it. We did this a lot! So how posionous or stupifying could it be?????
Hornick, IA
(Zone 4b)

November 2, 2009
3:01 AM

Post #7232176

Not poisonous to humans, birds or bees but it is to fish.
Mount Vernon, KY

November 2, 2009
3:36 AM

Post #7232287

That is really amazing!
Who knew!
Thanks for the information!
Mount Vernon, KY

November 2, 2009
4:22 AM

Post #7232424

I was almost in bed, darn it.
But I just had to come back and ask if you knew what was the agent, chemical or what ever that is in the honeysuckle that would do this to fish?
Can't stop thinking about it, and still amazed!
Hornick, IA
(Zone 4b)

November 2, 2009
10:40 PM

Post #7234868

It is mainly the saponins in the leaves and flowers and of course the stem itself. There has been other cases of fish kill other than my own. Mine was caused by the Chinese kiwi. That is when I started searching for causes. There is a long list of plants that will kill fish.
Now just one or two leaves, I don't think will bother that much.
Mount Vernon, KY

November 3, 2009
12:08 AM

Post #7235217

Thank you so much for this information. This is very strange because this is what I found out?????

I looked it up, and it is a secondary metabolite. That means it impairs the energy cycle (mitochondria), but does not cause death like primary metabolite. Just impairs the organism probably causing a long illness that leads to death!

Something else that I found out in looking it up, It is an adjuvant in vaccines!!!!
Anitgen = actually protein from the pathogen put in the vaccine to stimulate the immune system to react to that pathogen.
Adjuvant= something attached to the antigen that causes further stimulation of the immune system usually by causing inflammation (disturbing the mitochondria). the adjuvants that I have found so far are: aluminium (caused actor Bubby Epson the job as the tin man in the "Wizard of Oz" from his allergric reaction to it) squalene (an oil, used in the vaccines given to our Gulf War Veterans), Mercury not an adjuvant but a perservative.
This is of great interest to me since my children reacted to a vaccine and it did cause an acquired mitochondrial disease, stroke, inflammation of the blood vessels.

Thanks for the information.
springfield area, MO
(Zone 5b)

November 3, 2009
1:51 AM

Post #7235618

well I am scared of vaccines, I try to stay away from them if I can.

If the utility worker had been so kind as to knock on your friend's door, she could have grabbed a shovel and dug up her clem.
I highly doubt, that a clem would have did any real damage to a utility pole. Not if it were properly cared for. They are hardy and take pruning back well.
They do have easement rights, but I understand they cannot destroy property. They do not own it, only have rights to maintain it.
The last utility worker that destroyed my garden, had to apologize to me in person, (his manager came to my house) and paid over $100 to replace my peonies, clem and dayliles.

And they had to repair my chain link which they tore up very badly. Then they had to fill in ruts across my entire property and put out grass seed.
I had photos.
I also gathered up their cig butts and returned them to them at their managers office.
I have hardly seen a handful of these type of workers that I can barely stand to look at. :(

Hornick, IA
(Zone 4b)

November 3, 2009
1:55 AM

Post #7235625

As far as I could tell it affects cold blooded animals and some insects adversely while warm blooded and of course humans, can benefit from it in many ways one being lowering cholesterol. and as you pointed out a natural adjunct used in many ways.

Check out the toxicity's of kiwi. It reacts differently from one person to the next. Sometimes causing large blisters much like poison ivy.
Mount Vernon, KY

November 3, 2009
2:07 AM

Post #7235662

Yes, I read that too.
You know in the advertisments for cholestrol lowering medicines when they warn that some people may have muscle weakness and they should stop the medicine and report it to their doctor.

Well that is my kids.

After the vaccine!

Cholesterol is important in making CoenzymeQ 10 called coQ10 that goes on to make acetyl coline (all part of the energy cycle in the mitochondria to make energy)

Also It takes cholesterol and the sun for our bodies to make vitamin D -- very important in the function of the immune system.

All cholesterol is not bad, as I am sure you know. Because you sure did know about saponin!

I will look up chinese kiwi? Are you talking about the same kiwi that is fussy brown, green inside, we buy in the store, and it taste like a green strawberry?
Mount Vernon, KY

November 3, 2009
2:11 AM

Post #7235681

Sorry Frillylilly about your utility workers. Around here, they have always been just the very best behaved. They did come through a couple of years ago to clean out the trees, and they meant to clean out the trees, even things that were not reallly high growing . Leveled the ground so to speak. But that was someone the electric company had contracted out, not the guys that work for the eletric company day in and day out..
Hornick, IA
(Zone 4b)

November 3, 2009
2:12 AM

Post #7235683

FrillyLily; The power company had me put in buried service line. Well I had to keep filling in holes in the trench they dug down my drive way. Also when they took out the old pole that had been there for overhead service, they borrowed some dirt from my garden. Exactly where I had a 2 year old asparagus plant, That killed it. Only reason I didn't raise a fuss is that they had already knocked off over half of the cost of the wire and done the digging just to get me to agree to a buried service line. Which is 200 amp rather than the normal 100 amp. Many service men have no idea of the damage they do. No matter how innocent they thought their action was.
I agree that a clematis would do no harm as long as it was pruned back to keep it off the wires.
may you be well.
Hornick, IA
(Zone 4b)

November 3, 2009
2:21 AM

Post #7235725

No the Chinese kiwi is more the size of a large grape and its skin is not fuzzy.
The fuzzy one in stores is native to New Zealand. Hope I spelled that right. lol

November 3, 2009
3:32 AM

Post #7235953

My understanding is that most Honeysuckles are mildly toxic, one exception being, "Lonicera caerulea var. edulis", There are at least 9 different varieties, it's also sometimes called "Honeyberry".
New Zealand

November 3, 2009
4:11 AM

Post #7236082

^_^ as a New Zealander I am having a giggle over the references to 'kiwi'.
The kiwi is a flightless native bird & our national symbol.
The original fruit was a Chinese Gooseberry - not related to actual gooseberries at all.
I remember eating one as a child it was small, very hairy & had a hard pithy centre.
Once plants were imported to NZ they were developed into the delicious large fruit we called Kiwifruit.
Nobody thought to trademark the name or the cultivars.
And then some bright spark helped introduce them commercially to be grown in the States where they became known as kiwi.
The grape size smooth variety was developed in NZ as well - although I don't doubt US growers probably have done the same work in creating a similar cultivar.
We also have a golden fleshed variety with a milder flavour.
cheers - Dalfyre
the not so brown & hairy kiwi ^_^

Titus, AL

November 3, 2009
12:44 PM

Post #7236613

Keep in mind that American native honeysuckle is an attractive and good food source for the American deer. They love it. If it is growing in a yard, this could attract the deer to the yard to eat not only honeysuckle but any shrub or plant to their liking.
Love the NZ kiwifruit. It grows well in Alabama, USA. It does need much cultivation, [pruning and etc].
Hornick, IA
(Zone 4b)

November 3, 2009
1:19 PM

Post #7236706

Thanks for the update; on New Zealand cultivating the Chinese version as well.
None of the big fuzzy ones will grow here in zone 4. I have one of the Chinese ones left. It does nothing except to send out it's branches and wrap around everything it gets near. It has never blossomed. I don't know for sure if it is the male or the female. It is the only one that survived. But it's leaves, getting in my pond, had several of my very large koi floating on top of the water. I managed to save two of them by moving them back and forth in fresh water. That helped to flush out their gills.
I do wish the larger variety of kiwi fruit would grow here but nope no luck there.
Big grin, I did know about the kiwi - bird. :>)

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