Plumbing: I'm having problems with my toilet?

Forum: Plumbing Replies: 5, Views: 36 Print -

Author Content Rooterlady Palo Alto, CA December 7, 2007 2:26 PM Post #4271781 My toilet is acting weird and I don't know if it is root related. I had a problem about 6 months ago but it isn't identical in symptoms. I'll tell you how it started 5 days ago. I flushed the toilet and saw it acting normally so I proceeded to use the bathroom sink. I heard something that made me look at the toilet to see that the water in the bowl was at the rim. I grabbed the plunger and plunged once and water started to go down but water was also coming out on each side of the toilet base. I grabbed towels and placed them on the floor on both sides. Last time I had the problem with the roots it flooded the entire floor but this time only around the toilet. The next time I flushed the toilet I saw a pattern. When I flushed the toilet the water went down like it should and then the water started to refill inside the bowl. However, the water continued to rise above where it normally stops coming pretty close to the rim. Then it would go down quickly past the normal level mark until it was in the small hole at the very bottom of the bowl. Then it would make a flapping like noise. It would then take almost an hour for the water to rise until it was at normal level. My brother did a little adjusting. At first it would act normally in that it would empty and then rise and stay at the normal level and then the flushing noise would get louder and then the water would rise to the rim. He tweeked it a bit more and it seemed back to normal. Okay, so I decided to put a load of clothes on to wash. Then I came inside and started to wash a normal sink of dishes. I finished and started to walk into the livingroom when I heard a sickening noise so I went into the bathroom. There I found the floor flooded around the toilet (when I say this I mean to the 3 walls around it too)and the water in the toilet bowl was down in that tiny well at the very bottom of the toilet bowl. However I was surprised to see a huge bubble (about 3" diameter) come up and make a bubble noise. It reminded me of when as kids you would take your straw and blow into a glass of liquid and a bubble would start from the bottom of the glass until it reached the surface). It blew a big bubble a few times. I am afraid to use the washer, any water from the facets or flush the toilet. The previous time I had this problem when it flooded the entire floor I would soak up the water and then dry it until it was totally dry. About 3 hours after it had been dry I heard a blub blub noise and went into the bathroom to find the floor flooded again. I had a plumber out and he used blades to clean out the line and for about 5 months I have had no problems. A friend of mine works for the sewer department for my city and she asked if my sewer lline had been cleaned out to the street. I told her no and she said I should have it done. I was impressed to hear of her knowledge of plumbing/toilet issues. I will add that there is a tiny triangular piece of tile that is missing. It is against the toilet. At first I thought that was where and why the water was coming up from the floor and under the toilet but the other side of the toilet has no missing tiles. Should the toilet be caulked around it? What do you think the problem is and what would be the solution? Please if you have any info please respond asap?! P.S. Person from the city just came and after doing a test says my problem has nothing to do with the outside line. I told him what was happening inside and he wanted to come in and look at the toilet. The first thing he said was the seal under the toilet wasn't good. I explained that a plumber had removed the toilet, cut out the roots from the toilet to the box and put the toilet back down with a new seal. He then said that the toilet was "OLD" and should be replaced and that should end my problems. So, what do you guys think IS the problem? And how do I solve it? I need an answer ASAP! This message was edited Dec 7, 2007 12:02 PM Tgrbttrfly Toledo, OH (Zone 6a) January 27, 2008 1:09 PM Post #4460499 I am so sorry you were having this problem! I am new to DG and am having a problem with my toilet leaking too, and came for answers. I hope your problem has been solved by now! Too bad no answer came from here. Good luck! Moricky Ballwin, MO February 5, 2008 6:32 PM Post #4499635 Sounds like two problems,each making it more confusing. First biggest problem sounds like the drain is clogged. Not an unusual problem when tree roots grow into the line from the house to the sewer or septic tank outside the house. This can also happen when there is a rough spot in the line where paper, etc. can get snagged and gradually build up to clog the pipe. I go for the pro to clean these troubles. I can dig and look all day and not really fix the trouble. They now can run cameras down the line if needed to look and truly find the cause if they do not find it otherwise. Often the sewer guy can tell the cause by what he drags out with the cleanout tool. The total fix is to dig up the line and fix the bad spot. Often not worth the expense versus a yearly cleaning out. The water around the stool comes about because when there is more water going down the drain than it can handle in the semi-clogged condition, the water backs up and runs out at the lowest opening. If there were a basement floor drain it would come out there but in this case there is a leak at the toilet base. When things are normal the water flushed will fall past this leak and go down the drain but the leak shows up when water is left standing at that spot because it can't get down the drain. Under the stool there should be a wax ring, ( $1 item) which is mashed between the stool base and the floor. This is designed to keep sewer gas from backing up and entering the house. It also keeps the water from running out in the floor if there is a backup. It should certainly be replaced as sewer gas can be a real hazard and can build up to explosive levels under the right conditions. jazzzy704 Fenton, MI (Zone 5b) February 5, 2008 7:08 PM Post #4499762 Hello, I am not a plumber but I am a 35 year owner of multiple properties and have fixed most or all of MY Own sewer problems. Moriky is right on..I believe you have a tree root problem. The toilet has NOTHING to do with it. If you want to help it or stop it you should cut down any trees close to the house ( that is what I have done on every home I have sewer problems.) Many times the sewer line has breaks or hair line cracks. This is just big enough for a thin little tree root to start to invade the pipe! Now it will get fertilized (feces) and will grow like any plant MANY fibrous if somewhat soft roots IN THE PIPE!!! You can imagine they act like open fingers stopping paper, kotex, Tampax, etc, . This in turn might stop the flow but more likely had the symptom you already experienced, SLOW MOVEMENT. (Think of a kitchen sink disposer with food in it) Before you grind the food the water will go down but slower than normal, it might gurgle, bubble...just like your toilet did!!! Then when you dispose of the food blocking the water ... movement all is good!! Well you must remove the tree roots several times a year ( they grow fast in spring and fall) or kill the tree. You can also buy COPPER SULFATE. It is used in stump removers and tree Killers. It will cause the roots to die back. It can be purchase cheaply from a Feed/Elevator/ grain/farmer depot. It has uses for farmers. You can also buy it from Lowes and H.D. but you need to do this monthly in the spring and fall and it runs about $10 there. I would not replace any pipes because the chance is if you don't remove the tree it will happen AGAIN only in the new several thousand dollar sewer pipe!!! I just spent $2600 to take down 2, 80' dead ash trees, one 40' oak tree, and several weedy trees from a property where I have had a sewer problem for years. I was able to manage it with the things I have told you for the 10 years i have owned it. But i can no longer be so proactive and since i don't live there and i rent it I can not depend on others to take the care I have. I had the drains snaked 3xs a year. It has to be with a CUTTING Blade at the tip of the snake. You can NOT just use a normal HOOK!! If the guy can not CUT out the roots they will come back sooner. The cutting blade follows the conture of the pipe and slices off anything in the pipe. A hook just GRABS any roots it can and TEARs them off as they come out of the pipe. Do you know what i am saying. Well I think i have covered it. Let me know if you have any questions. I have even bought properties no one else would buy because they had water in the basement or bad sewers and never once have i replaced the sewer line. I always have been able to fix the problem from OUTSIDE with the remedies i am suggesting to you! Julie Moricky Ballwin, MO February 5, 2008 7:33 PM Post #4499840 The first thing I learned about sewer trouble is that there is no one sure solution to all the different things you find. Sometimes cleaning is the right thing and the first thing to try because it will most likely be one of the cheaper fixes. Sometimes adding the various chemicals to kill roots will be worth the trouble and expense. A lot of that depends on what the cleanout guy finds. Don't cut down all the trees unless he finds tree roots in the pipe!! Sometimes cutting the trees seems right but that goes back to how much it costs to cut the trees versus digging or cleaning the pipe. What is a tree worth to you? To me they are precoius and I protect them as long as I can. Digging up the whole pipe and replacing it is drastic also. How drastic gets into how far and what else you might be doing in the yard. The one big advantage of replacing old pipe with new drain is the new is much better. Many old drains were simply short sections of clay tile laid end to end with no worry about leaks. In the old days it was considered okay to just let the sewage run out into the ground. Tree roots love those as they find them a lovely source of water! Some older pipes were put together and sealed with several different types of sealers (solder, jute, etc.) which lasted for a time. When the seal fails the tree roots rush in. New drain pipe is heavy duty PVC solvent welded together at the joints. So far they have been no trouble to me. There is very little inside for things to hang on and no leaks for tree roots to get inside. Real expense to change to them but sometimes better than spending money to cut trees you may have nurtured for years. One thing to note is that you may also need to cut the neighbors trees also. I don't go there --ever. jazzzy704 Fenton, MI (Zone 5b) February 5, 2008 7:49 PM Post #4499883 Hey Mo, You are absolutely right. But if you put in a new pipe and have an actively growing tree and ROOTS you could have a pvc pipe in danger of shifting and cracking. I am not saying it will but as you said it all depends on the situation, where, how, what?? But HER symptoms and the fact that she CURED them temporarily with a sewer "cleaning" led me to my response. Of course I do alot of problem solving if I "know NOT the cause" I have used hydrolic cements ( when rebar has loosened in poured basement walls), cement leveling, removing trees, installing shrubs, grading, down spout extensions, You name it I've done it!! All to solve water issues. I have put cameras down sewer drains and even helped hammer jack a cement foundation to put in a whole new sewer line!! That I would NEVER recommend unless all else is tried. It is TIME consuming and costly to hire out!! Well I only have one more thing to say on the subject: I would also clean the VENT stack from the roof to make sure it is not blocked (that could cause some Gurgling, slow water flow!!) I know most woman don't get into the trades but I have done all of them except heating and cooling!! But I am NOT an expert at any!! Just a gal who has done a lot of my own work and I have the tools to prove it!! LOL! LOL!! Thanks for the discussion Mo! Julie

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