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First let me say this house is not anything we're
overly concerned about with regard to reselling it
one day. It's home for us, but the land is likely worth
more than the house itself, LOL.
With that in mind, I'm considering doing a large scale
mosaic on the bathroom walls, but have several questions.
I am considering mesh application so that I can work
at my desk, then transfer the mesh with tiles to the wall.
Questions:
1.) Should I be picky about the mesh type?
2.) Advice for wall prep. Should I put up concrete board, then
apply the mesh / tile pieces to the board?
3.) Suggested thinset / mastic / whatever you call it?
There was a bathroom on 'Extreme houses' which was ALL mosaic tile. All rounded corners, arches etc. They nailed up chicken wire and/or other bases and covered them with mortar, then tiled everything. I believe they sketched the design on the scratch coat and used thinset to adhere the tile.
1. I wouldn't think the type of mesh would be a problem as long as it is suitable to support the weight of mortar and tile
2. Seems like cement board would be overkill unless the walls are not capable of supporting the tile.
3. Thinset is probably as good as anything.
One important caveat, this is coming from someone who has never done more than 10 square feet of tiling and even less mosaic. But I will before this life is over.
It sounds like a fantastic opportunity. Go for it Karen Marie. With your talents it will be beautiful.
I would definitely recommend thinset as opposed to mastic. I've used both, and the mastic doesn't hold up in a wet environment. I used it for my kitchen counters on my first tiling project, and around the sink it just wasn't right. You can get a quick-set thinset that works well on vertical surfaces---I've used it on my outside stair risers, and it sets up fast enough that you can get your tiles set, but not so fast that you can't scooch them around.
Personally, I think I would do the cement board. That's what the pros who recently did my stairs used. They told me it's not that hard an additional step to do, and it makes the tile & mortar easier to work with---makes a better bond.
I have been mixed up about this too. This is what I have figured out (I think) but I sure hope others will jump in here if I don't have this right.
Mastic is the premixed tile adhesive that you can buy in the plastic tubs. I've used this for interior pieces, but it's not recommended for outdoor use, or for applications that will be exposed to water.
Thinset is a tile adhesive too, but it's mortar-based, or cement-based. Mastic does not have cement in it. I think thinset is (usually? always?) purchased dry, and you mix it with water, or with some kind of acrylic additive (which I have not figured out yet.)
Mortar is just a kind of cement that is made from cement and fine sand. This is the cement product that is used in thinset. So, when people say "thinset mortar", I think it's just being a bit redundant. I believe mortar and thinset are generally used to mean the same thing.
I used Mapei Ultraflex 2 Professional grade polymer-modified mortar for my sink countertop in my greenhouse recently, for two reasons. I read on the internet that several artists used it for all their outdoor mosaic work, and I also read it's great for situations where you'll be working with different thicknesses of mosaic pieces.
I found out that was true. Some of the tiles I used for the counter were only 1/8" thick, and others were a very fat 1/4" thick. I found I could get a level surface by mixing the thinset to a very thick consistency (like stiff cake frosting) when I was gluing on thin pieces. I buttered the back of the thin pieces with lots of thinset, and it was thick enough to hold the weight of the piece at the high level I needed. When I glued the thicker pieces on, I mixed the thinset to a bit thinner consistency, and squished those pieces down firmly to the backer board. I loved working with the thinset...I liked it better than working with mastic.
I almost backed out of using the concrete backer board product for my countertop (didn't want to deal with the extra step) but we finally did add it for a good water-resistant surface. I kept reading that it's highly recommended for surfaces around water. In your bathroom, maybe it would depend on where you're tiling. I would think you would definately need it for any areas around the tub/shower/sinks, but possibly not on the walls that never get wet (unless you're a joyous splasher?)
But I have NOT had the courage or spousal permission to do a project as big as yours, and I've never done a vertical surface, so these are only wobbly guesses. I sure hope you will let us know how it goes!
Sheri
Everything you said makes sense, and I'm so glad you
said that you used Mapei Ultraflex. What did I do after work
today? Went to Lowes determined to come out with something
good, and the guy handed me a bag and said it was what I needed.
When I proudly displayed it for hubby, he laughed and said that
I had the same exact bag already.
Okay, now I feel good. I'm gonna start a big'un, by golly!
Sheri, thank you for taking the time to help me to understand. And the
redundant language, yes, exactly. Now I know what I didn't. Thank you
so much!
KM, you're very welcome! I can't wait to see what you do. I have three 1960's bathrooms that are greatly in need of inspiration/improvement (or bulldozing.) Maybe I'll gain courage from your efforts. :-)
Wow, you must be homesick for tumbleweeds and dust! Next time you're coming to Las Cruces, let me know and we'll tackle mosaicing over my pink tile bathroom, starting with the pink tile floor and pink tile walls. Not sure what we'll do about the pink bathtub, pink toilet, and pink sinks though. You can be thinking about it. ;-)
Sheri
Hey Wuvie...recognize...my name!!!! At least I think you are the wuvie from a different mosaic site that I frequent.
As far as the mesh goes...I used it for my hummingbird bench that I did awhile ago and man was it nice to use. I could work on the section I wanted glue the pieces to the mesh then later put it on the cement bench. As far as what kind of mesh to use...check the sites that sell glass and tile. THey all seem to have it they call it "mosaic mesh" I think.
Oh if you do the mesh, here is a tip that worked well for me. I layed my pattern down and cover that with plastic wrap and then lay my mesh on top of that. That way I could see my pattern to glue my pieces down and the plastic wrap caught any glue drippings and pulled easily away from the mesh when I was done!!!
Thank you so much for the tip about the plastic wrap over the pattern.
That does indeed make much sense and sounds like a plan I'll definitely use.
I guess I was worried about using glue, such as Weldbond to adhere the
tiles to the mesh if it was going outdoors, but I guess the mortar and grout
will hold everything in place. I also thought the mesh seemed a bit wimpy
to hold all those tiles, but then again, I guess once all the pieces are in place,
it should not move around. There is a huge sheet of mesh in our shop, so
maybe I'll drag it out and give it a try.
Oh Wuvie I forgot something...before I put the mesh with all the glass glued to it on the substrate I lay thinset down then put the mesh over that. Just dont put it on real thick unless your trying to grout your piece at the same time!! I learned this the hard way...
Ah, indeed point taken. That makes a lot of sense.
Do you mind answering another question? Assuming one only
puts down enough thinset to make the mesh piece stick, and it will
require and cause a bit of squish to come up the sides, could you tell
me how much is too much?
Well, I mean, I realize that if the thinset is squishing up over the top,
that is too much, but would you say, oh,
halfway up the tile is too much if you are going to grout? Should I
have less of a squish factor?
The first time I spread the thinset it was probably about 1/4 inch thick and that was way to much. The next panel I put down I spread it just enough to cover the area that the panel was going on kinda like putting mayo on bread...just enough to cover it but not thick!!!
Its kind of a trial and error thing. I've only done it with the one bench and all my tiles where the same thickness. If they werent you'd have to have a little squish factor to even it all up!!
I think I see an error on that bench. You'll have to pack it
up, have it insured and send it my way. It may take years for
me to find the flaw, you know.
Thank you guys. It was quite an ordeal. It is a bench my mom has and I had told her I wanted to do it for her some day...well that day came quicker than I expected. It honestly took me about 2 months to do the fill cause it was just so frustrating!!! The hummingbird part and the flowers were a piece of cake and went really fast!!! My mom is just not getting any younger and I wanted to get it done while she could appreciated it.
I can see why the fill would take so long, but I think that beautiful pattern really makes the piece! It makes such a nice contrast between that pattern and the pattern around the flowers and hummingbird. It's also nice that you outlined the flower and hummingbird circles. Those are the kinds of careful details I'm only now starting to notice in other people's work...the details that come with time and experience...I'm sure not there yet, but making notes! I'm sure your mother was thrilled with the bench. Thank you for posting!
Sheri
