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Tomatoes: Ramapo Tomato Seed

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VGMKY
Louisville, KY

January 18, 2008
7:05 PM

Post #4421187

I know some of you are growing the Open Pollinated Ramapo Tomato seed which Carolyn was so kind to share with us. Sometime months ago there was news out of Rutger's University that seed might be available in the future. They suggested writing and getting on a wailing list which is what I did. Several folks, including Carolyn, have been contacted regarding the release of this variety again; this has been discussed at several web sites.. This afternoon I received an official notice of the availabilty of the Ramapo Seed; this follows much "news" coverage about it. I have reservations about listing it here but know that many of you are interested!

Gary

The wait is over! The order form for Ramapo Tomato seeds is now available on our Jersey Tomato web page:
http://www.njfarmfresh.rutgers.edu/JerseyTomato.html




Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

January 18, 2008
10:33 PM

Post #4421962

Several folks, including Carolyn, have been contacted regarding the release of this variety again;

No Gary, I was not contacted at all. I've been in contact with the two Profs who are behind all of this and when I started to dehybridize Ramapo I was sent 6 F1 plants when I started, from a friend in NJ who got them at a farm stand where the farmer had sandbagged some F1 seedsl

I saved the seeds from those F1's and then needed some F1's to compare with the F2 grow outs. That's when I contacted Rutgers and was sent some F1 seed. That was maybe 5-6 years ago.

And even at that time the talk at Rutgers was breeding some disease tolerances into it and trying to get it in production again, which they couldn't do themselves.

When you read the link you'll see that seed production is in Israel, that 30 seeds cost $4 plus shipping and that no comment is made about making seeds available thru commercial seed sources. Harris Seeds and TGS were the last places where you could buy seed before there were no seeds left except at Rutgers where they maintained the two parents.

Carolyn
elsie
Lafayette, NJ
(Zone 6a)

January 19, 2008
1:23 AM

Post #4422680

Hi Gary,

We have a local farm that grew the plants from seeds from Rutgers. I bought a plant at their yearly plant sale. I thought it was the tastiest tomato I have had in years. Not a great quantity of tomatoes and the plant didn't really look all that good. But I plan on trying them again. I hope they have more this year because I will buy more plants. The tomatoes the farm grew won first prize at the NJ State Fair.
Big_Red
Bethelridge, KY
(Zone 6a)


January 20, 2008
2:25 PM

Post #4428249

Hey Buddy! Thanks for the link, I've got an order blank filled out to send for a pack tomorrow (like I need more tomatoes). Oh well, they'll keep until next year.

Stay well.

Red
Sequee
Carmel, NY
(Zone 6b)

January 20, 2008
6:44 PM

Post #4429248

Oh, you do, You REALLY do...
Big_Red
Bethelridge, KY
(Zone 6a)


January 20, 2008
7:12 PM

Post #4429350

He-he-he!
Melissa_Ohio
Southwestern, OH
(Zone 6b)

January 21, 2008
4:51 AM

Post #4431626

I have Ramapo F6, so what exactly do I have? LOL

Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

January 21, 2008
9:35 AM

Post #4431935

I have Ramapo F6, so what exactly do I have? LOL


*****

I distributed F3 Ramapo seed.

That means that from the hybrid I saved seeds, then the F2 seeds, or next generation, or 2nd filial (F) generation.

I made a selection of a plant and fruit that most resembled the F1 hybird and saved seeds, now the F3 seeds, and in making the selection I had some Ramapo hybrid plants to compare with my selection and the selection looked pretty darn good as being very close to the original

When others received those F3 seeds I sent out they did the same thing, that is, making sure their selection looked good, and then saved seed, now the F4 generation seed.

Repeat until the current generation for those who kept going is the F6 generation, or F6 Ramapo, which is what you have.

I know of a few folks who have F6 Ramapo seed they produced them selves by continual selection each year and I bet you got those seeds from one of them.

Well that was redundant b'c obviously you did. LOL

Carolyn, who was sent some F6 seed as well.
Melissa_Ohio
Southwestern, OH
(Zone 6b)

January 21, 2008
3:19 PM

Post #4432582

Thank you Carolyn.

So, if I grow this and select a plant to save seeds from, I must redistribute as Ramapo F7?
bluekat76
Ijamsville, MD
(Zone 6b)

January 22, 2008
1:13 PM

Post #4437676

Thanks Gary - I am going to get some and compare to mine that have been saved over the years.
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

January 22, 2008
2:55 PM

Post #4438026

Thank you Carolyn.

So, if I grow this and select a plant to save seeds from, I must redistribute as Ramapo F7?

Melissa, I was lucky and it was pretty much genetically stable at the F3 generation. So by now it is stable and you can do whatever you want to with it. Grow it, enjoy the fruits, save your own seed, then the F7 seed.

That's what most folks have been doing, as in in grow out out whatever F generation they receive and then saving their own seed.

YOu can do whatever you want to with your F7 seeds in terms of sharing, keeping, whatever.

Most of the time when a selection is made from a hybrid and it's fully stable, as this one is, no longer is an F generation associated with the name, but in this specific case folks have chosen to do that, and I find that interesting.

Another example where most folks tend to indicate the F generation of a selection made from a hybrid is with the cherry tomato Santa.

Carolyn
bluekat76
Ijamsville, MD
(Zone 6b)

March 1, 2008
4:27 PM

Post #4608676

Did anyone receive their seeds? Looks like they just cashed my check on the 25th so hopefully they are on the way. I usually start seeds around the middle of March.

-Kim
VGMKY
Louisville, KY

March 1, 2008
6:35 PM

Post #4609198

Kim and members, I ordered my Ramapo seed way back when they first came on line about the availability. So, I sent an e-mail and this is their response -----


NJ Farm Fresh to me
Feb 18 (12 days ago )

Reply
Gary The Ramapo Tomato seed is still being packed by the packing house. We have asked them to see if they can finish sooner, but it is likely that it will be sent to you the first week of March (as indicated on our order form).

So looks like we will get the tomato seed when ever ...
Gary
pennyrile
Evansville, IN
(Zone 6b)

March 1, 2008
7:05 PM

Post #4609302

Glad I didn't bother ordering any new Ramapo F1. Sounds like ... oh well ... I went ahead a planted 24 Moreton F1s yesterday. Probably not all that much difference, huh?
VGMKY
Louisville, KY

March 1, 2008
8:07 PM

Post #4609568

Bill, I hope to have the Ramapo seed in time for germination. I should have some extra seedlings and can save them for you in case you plan to be in this direction. I want to grow it and compare to the OP Ramapo.
Let me know if you plan to be this way (Louisville) sometime in late April.
Gary
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

March 1, 2008
10:30 PM

Post #4610083

Glad I didn't bother ordering any new Ramapo F1. Sounds like ... oh well ... I went ahead a planted 24 Moreton F1s yesterday. Probably not all that much difference, huh?

***

No Bill, in my experience Moreton Hybrid, Supersonic, Jet Star and Ramapo are not all that different. All were some of the earliest F1 hybrids created and are darn good varieties with respect to growth, blemish free fruits, excellent production and very good taste.

The hype that Rutgers has put out shouldn't shadow some of the ones I mentioned above, but as long as they're collecting the money, so be it.

Now, if we could just get Mark Willetts at Harris to push someone to get Moreton F1 back in production...say I knowing I've still got a few seeds left. LOL

Carolyn
pennyrile
Evansville, IN
(Zone 6b)

March 2, 2008
6:40 AM

Post #4611606

Gary, thanks for the offer. Maybe we can swap some plants this spring.

Carolyn, Stokes sells another tomato called Ultrasonic and says it compares to Jet Star and Moreton. I wonder, since they also say Ultrasonic is a determinate, semi-bush, 65 DTM. I also started a couple dozen Ultrasonics yesterday. Do you happen to know who bred this variety?

Bill
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

March 2, 2008
8:53 AM

Post #4611741

Do you happen to know who bred this variety?


*****

No doubt Stokes breeder Ernie Kerr did. Not in the NC cultivar list but Stokes also bred Ultra Girl, Ultra Boy and Ultrasweet, so it's not a big jump to Ultrasonic.

And if you look at some other varieties of almost anything in the catalog they like to say, similar to or same as, referring to other varieties that they don't carry.

My catalog is out in the front room and I'm here in a back room, but even if you look at other tomatoes, summer squash, etc. you'll see that they often say similar to, etc.

Now what they mean by similar to escapes me and with Ultrasonic for sure they aren't talking about plant habit being similar to the Harris varieties, so perhaps they're referring to taste.

Cutting to the chase, I don't know why they're comparing it to the Harris varieties. LOL

Carolyn
eweed
Everson, WA
(Zone 8a)

March 2, 2008
12:37 PM

Post #4611873

I have about a hundred F1 moreton seedlings going now and maybe today or at least some time this week will seed some F2. I will also seed some Supersonic and Jetstar along with my usual mix.

My friend seeded 17000 for his use and sales and has about a two year supply left then he will be in the same boat as the rest of us.

I to wish Harris would just get the real deal back. Pennyrile did you ever find out if Unckle Wayne sells the seed you traded for? Ernie

pennyrile
Evansville, IN
(Zone 6b)

March 2, 2008
2:01 PM

Post #4612032

Ernie,

No, I didn't find out whether Uncle Wayne (Carl is his real name) sells the Moreton F1 seed, but he is a very nice fellow and sincerely wants to improve his Web site with regard to correcting any misinformation about the many varieties he sells.

His business apparently started out as a hobby, then backyard cottage industry, and now maybe is blossoming into a full time occupation. When folks pointed out that some of the blurbs for his tomato plants contained errors, I contacted him and said I would forward some minor corrections and he truly appreciated and encouraged the correct information. He took no offense whatever. Most of his errors are simple things like calling an open pollinated variety a hybrid, etc. All his errors are unintentional. Most of his blurbs are copied from seed catalogs and I think he was guessing at some of the hybrid versus open pollinated designations because the seed catalog either didn't give that info or because the seed catalog had the variety sandwiched between two hybrids on the same page ... something like that.

Anyway, if anyone were to kindly point out such mistakes to Carl in a friendly and constructive way (rather than in a brutally critical manner), I bet he would be most appreciative and take action when he has time to make the corrections. Right now I'd bet he is as busy as a cat in a sandbox with his seed starting activities. Carl also seems very open to any new-to-him (and to his customers) varieties. I sent him several in return for his kind gift of the Moreton seeds.

Bill
bluekat76
Ijamsville, MD
(Zone 6b)

March 7, 2008
1:11 PM

Post #4633246

I got my Ramapo seeds two days ago. The packet I opened contained 41 seeds about .10 a seed. Now for planting. I have this seed, a F6 and OP seed grown out 20+ years. Maybe I will have a little comparison this year.

-Kim
TwinLakesChef
OC, CA & Twin Lakes , IA
(Zone 4b)

March 10, 2008
8:27 PM

Post #4647293

My Ramapo arrived today and I ordered very late.
VGMKY
Louisville, KY

March 10, 2008
11:03 PM

Post #4647935

Bill, I shared Grandfather Ashlock tomato, Kentucky Heirloom, with Carl aka Uncle Wayne. I included the description to that one and a number of others. He was delighted with the description and how Tennessee Britches got its name.

I received my Ramapo F1 Seed today as well. I am looking forward to growing it and comparing it with the open pollinated seed I have.
Gary
critterologist
Frederick, MD
(Zone 6b)

March 11, 2008
10:59 PM

Post #4651867

Kim, a comparison would be great! And may I please put in an advance request for seeds of your favorite... :-)
LooneyLinda
Mantua, UT
(Zone 4b)

March 12, 2008
10:05 PM

Post #4655737

I received my Ramapo seeds also. The package says the DTM is 85. I hope that's not true. A bit late for me. Is Ramapo considered to be a "late" tomato?

I realize that DTM is variable. Aker's West Virginia and JTD say 85 days and they have produced earlier than that in my Zone 4 garden.
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

March 12, 2008
11:03 PM

Post #4655912

I received my Ramapo seeds also. The package says the DTM is 85. I hope that's not true. A bit late for me. Is Ramapo considered to be a "late" tomato?

I realize that DTM is variable. Aker's West Virginia and JTD say 85 days and they have produced earlier than that in my Zone 4 garden.

******

You'll be OK with Ramapo F1 if you could mature Akers and JTD.

Carolyn
NisiNJ
Bordentown, NJ
(Zone 7a)

March 13, 2008
4:39 AM

Post #4657314

The package doesn't say if it is determinate or indeterminate. Should I assume that 85 days to maturity would mean indeterminate? I need to know so I can plan on what kind of cage, etc.

Thanks.

NisiNJ
Carolyn
Salem, NY
(Zone 4b)

March 13, 2008
7:23 AM

Post #4657616

The package doesn't say if it is determinate or indeterminate. Should I assume that 85 days to maturity would mean indeterminate? I need to know so I can plan on what kind of cage, etc.

******

DTM's can't be used to determine plant habit but I'd call Ramapo F1, as well as the OP version, a compact indeterminate or semi-indeteminate..

Carolyn

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