| Author | Content |
dave
Jacksonville, TX
(Zone 8a)
 February 11, 2008
10:50 PM Post #4526514
| Feedback is obviously a critical component of a successful auction system, and we need to have an excellent and well thought out system that allows buyers and sellers conduct their transaction with complete confidence.
The system should correctly reward great sellers and buyers, and it should properly punish bad buyers and sellers.
So given that thought, let's talk about feedback.
From what I understand, ebay has a very simplistic style for feedback: each party in the transaction leaves a positive, negative or neutral feedback, with only enough room to type one sentence of text to explain the rating you're giving.
I envision something a little more sophisticated and multi-tiered.
For the buyer, when they are leaving feedback for the seller, they are given several questions. Something like:
1) Was the merchandise as described? (Positive, Neutral, Negative)
2) Was the shipping handled correctly? (Positive, Neutral, Negative)
(and so forth... not sure what else could be done).
Same process for the seller giving feedback to the buyer. If we like this train of thought, my question would be: exactly what questions should be answered?
And then offer a free-form field where the party can write a sentence (or two) about the transaction.
Once the questions are answered, then a "score" is assigned to all the questions and the rating of the buyer/seller is adjusted.
Dave |
twiggybuds
Moss Point, MS
(Zone 8b)
February 11, 2008
11:15 PM Post #4526655
| That sounds easy and very comprehensive. It is customary for the seller to only be concerned with proper on time receipt of payment. Maybe a seller would need to be able to refute wrongful accusations which may rarely occur.
Buyers usually say something about prompt shipping, good packing, good communication and that the item was as described.
|
MitchF
Lindsay, OK
(Zone 7a)
February 11, 2008
11:17 PM Post #4526662
| Dave - ebay also now asks the following questions after you a general one -
How accurate was the item description?
How satisfied were you with the seller's communication?
How quickly did the seller ship the item?
How reasonable were the shipping and handling charges?
you rate these things on a star chart from one start to five stars.
So you have a lot to rate a seller on now.
|
mistygardener
Saint James, MO
(Zone 6b)
February 11, 2008
11:33 PM Post #4526758
| I think giving more room for feedback is a great idea. I always wanted to leave more in depth info on how a transaction went, and you had to cut it down. |
Dave67
New Port Richey, FL
(Zone 9b)
February 11, 2008
11:49 PM Post #4526839
| I still like the Garden Watchdog rating system the best. |
gordo
Gulfport, FL
(Zone 9b)
February 12, 2008
01:42 AM Post #4527188
| I also like the Garden Watchdog rating system. It leaves more room for buyer's or seller's comments. Limiting the rating system to Positive, Negative and Neutral - with an explanation, allows other potential customers more information about the transaction and a better idea as to whether complaints are reasonable, unreasonable or frivolous.
Unlike eBay, the seller will have a better opportunity to present their side of an issue, and offer information about how they handled the complaint. They can also thank the customer for a good rating, if they wish. |
dwr857
Phoenix, AZ
(Zone 9a)
February 12, 2008
02:26 AM Post #4527246
| Dave, just like the Garden Watchdog which is a wonderful tool, you could also do the same type thing for sellers that best sevice the DG clientel and maybe call it DG Auction Watchdog. |
ViolaValley
Viola, TN
(Zone 6b)
February 12, 2008
03:11 AM Post #4527310
| I have seen many times with feedback where another seller has friends leave feedback against a seller just to watch the rating go down.
How about work with daves idea but a 1-5 ratio for example to start. See how it goes. We have read many Garden Watchdog comments left for sellers and they are pretty rough. Some get so far off track that the reason they are leaving fb is no longer the reason for leaving remarks about the product. I know they are monitored but the get pretty intense. One experience shouldnt affect what 100's of others have not felt. You cannot please everyone but certainly can give it your best shot.
I live on this computer and in fact for well over 10 years now with the public and now at my website. we answer within the hour most of the time either by Bobby or I. I am up all hours of the night preparing for the next day and you will get a feedback that will state for example" no emails returned ect..." when in fact all emails are responded to, you forward the saved emails to the customers and the ebay log of emails and they still insist they are correct. I log all comments on my experience with my customers, invoice, planting instructions emailed, payment received email, personal email from my email address and as well notification of shipment with planting instructions again. Enclosed in the package a third set of planting instructions then they leave you a bad comment "no planting instructions".
Yes, on ebay it is happening everyday to alot of good sellers. It should be set up possibly (ex: excellent, satisfied, good, ok, poor) That might eliminate the harsh unkind words. We probably wont have as many problems on DG as all are so wonderful and pleasant to work with so far and I thoroughly enjoy DG but there will be of course a few that come along that may cause a problem. Ratio, simple comments to start would be great. |
gone2seed
Milton, FL
(Zone 8a)
February 12, 2008
10:45 PM Post #4531287
| ViolaValley types...I have seen many times with feedback where another seller has friends leave feedback against a seller just to watch the rating go down.
The only way they can do this is to purchase something from the seller.You aren't allowed to just leave feedback where there is no transaction. |
BuriedTreasures
Valrico, FL
(Zone 9a)
February 12, 2008
11:11 PM Post #4531410
| Believe it or not, if she's been doing it for 10 years, she was doing it at a time when anyone and everyone could leave feedback on Ebay for whoever they wanted. No need to have been in a transaction with them. They changed that program for good reason needless to say.
I keep seeing over and over again that the buyers obligation ends at point of payment, and I have to disagree. I feel the buyers obligation ends when they have communicated successfully to the seller that they are satisfied or unsatisfied with the transaction, and if unsatisfied, give the seller the opportunity to satisfy. They can communicate satisfaction by leaving positive feedback, sending an email, or if unsatisfied, contacting the seller and letting them know what the issues are, and giving them the opportunity to correct.
This applies whether it's Ebay's new system, old system or the GW system.
I do like the 1-5 stars on various aspects of the transaction. Perhaps just a star system that averages the points, and then calculates the percentage to score it a positive, neutral, or negative. Comment field of course, to explain the details of the transaction if necessary.
Dave, you may want to look at Elance's feedback system as well.
Chris
Chris |
ViolaValley
Viola, TN
(Zone 6b)
February 12, 2008
11:33 PM Post #4531550
| Yes, on ebay they have caught buyers associated with another seller. They purchase, 3 days later left negatives, never even giving time for their payment to clear, or shipment to go out. Yes, they certainly do have malicious activity all the time on there. Ebay had investigated and had them removed properly. Email headers of emails with proof sent to sec. ect... |
Equilibrium
February 13, 2008
12:09 AM Post #4531717
| Once there is consideration in the form of payment, I'd have to view any lot I'm high bidder on as a binding contract. There will have been an offer and there will have been acceptance. Once payment is tendered by me as a high bidder, I will have fulfilled my end of the contractual agreement. It is now up to the seller to fulfill his/her end of the contractual agreement. These are bilateral contracts in my mind. Nothing more, nothing less.
No way no how should anyone not involved in a transaction be able to leave feedback for a seller.
Simply stated... if the feedback system ends up anything like that fiasco over at eBay, there will be people who will not feel comfortable bidding on items here so they won't. I strongly suspect eBay modeled their current feedback after other online auctions that don't allow sellers to leave feedback at all for buyers to avoid a considerable amount of time and aggravation... and $$$. |
Melissa_Ohio
Southwestern, OH
(Zone 6b)
February 13, 2008
01:49 AM Post #4532053
| The thing that bugs me the most about ebay feedback, is that now most sellers say "I'll leave your feedback, after you leave my satisfactory feedback."
I normally only use the buy it now feature... and I guess I need to go look in threads to see if that option will be available here. As SOON as I "buy it now" I pay for my auction with Paypal. Now, from a sellers standpoint, I have completed my end of the deal, and my feedback should NOT be qualified by whether or not I leave feedback for them.
They SHOULD leave it first especially in a buy it now situation.
I know all the sellers here will say they don't because they want to be able to "fix any problems that arise" but, isn't that in effect holding positive feedback hostage or indeed blackmailing with feedback? If you're selling what you say you are selling, and you're shipping according to the auction, why should you be worried about getting negative feedback over the transaction?
I'd love to see it be impossible for a buyer to leave feedback until a seller has... and if it's a buy it now situation, sellers should have to leave feedback immediately.
Sellers won't like this, but, I've seen too many times, sellers who got their money promptly but failed to deliver the goods leave negative feedback for someone in retaliation. Buyers who fulfill their end of the bargain should not be retaliated against by sellers, and the feedback system on ebay allows it to happen.
You never really know if you have a true representation of how the seller conducts him or herself... because most people will leave a positive, and then just a simple "as described" or "thank you" instead of truly rating the person just because they know their feedback rating is dependent on what they say about the seller, and that isn't right. |
Equilibrium
February 13, 2008
02:03 AM Post #4532071
| If sellers are allowed to leave feedback for buyers (which I don't know that I necessarily agree with or disagree with), sellers should most certainly not be allowed to receive their feedback until at such time as they have left feedback for their buyer. Let that be the time the seller goes out looking for why they haven't received feedback so they can iron out any issues. And the comments shared by Melissa_Ohio are exactly why the total number of transactions to date should show for each buyer and each seller regardless of how DG ultimately decided to handle feedback. Sometimes it isn't what is shared but what isn't shared that speaks volume. |
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)
February 13, 2008
10:47 AM Post #4532800
| As far as sellers waiting until after the buyer receives the items before leaving feedback, that seems reasonable to me. There are plenty of bad buyers out there too, maybe they pay on time, but then they claim the plants never showed up, or showed up dead when in fact that's not the case, then make unreasonable demands on the seller. To me that buyer deserves a bad rating just as much as someone who doesn't pay on time. Granted, if the seller waits until the buyer receives the plants before leaving feedback it also leaves the gates open for unscrupulous sellers to engage in blackmail, but that's what Dave's trying to address in the "feedback blackmail" thread. |
Joan
Belfield, ND
(Zone 4a)
 February 13, 2008
10:53 AM Post #4532818
|
| Quoted: | | I'd love to see it be impossible for a buyer to leave feedback until a seller has... |
The only thing I have against this is what if the buyer never receives their item and the seller doesn't respond to emails. (Been there, done that on Ebay.) Then how does the buyer get the sellers attention? |
Marylyn_TX
Houston, TX
(Zone 9a)
February 13, 2008
11:00 AM Post #4532843
|
| Quoted: | | The only thing I have against this is what if the buyer never receives their item and the seller doesn't respond to emails. (Been there, done that on Ebay.) Then how does the buyer get the sellers attention? |
That should be handled with a dispute resolution process, not with feedback. |
Equilibrium
February 13, 2008
12:17 PM Post #4533194
|
| Quoted: | | As far as sellers waiting until after the buyer receives the items before leaving feedback, that seems reasonable to me. |
Not only unreasonable but in my opinion unfairly unjust and we'd be at risk of ending up in the same predicament that eBay was in. This practice (along with messy and expensive litigation) is probably at the root of why eBay, like so many other online auction houses, now disallows sellers from leaving feedback for buyers at all. We're dealing with binding contracts here. If feedback is to be able to be left by both buyers and sellers at a DG auction site, then feedback should be required to be left by the seller first before being able to receive feedback from a buyer and the seller's feedback should be left when the buyer tenders payment because it will be at this phase of the transaction that the buyer will have fulfilled their end of the contractual agreement. I am now of the opinion that if any feedback is able to be left for buyers at all it should be limited to if payment was received in the time frame dictated by the seller and if the means by which payment was made was consistent with the eBay listing... in other words... if one wins a plant and the listing says pay within 10 days, high bidder should pay within 10 days- end of story. If the buyer says only checks will be accepted for a particular plant, people shouldn't be bidding on that lot if they want to use their PayPal account. The time to negotiate payment options other than those outlined in the listing is not after one bids. The time to negotiate tendering payment outside of the timeframe outlined by a buyer is also not after one has bid. Attempting to re-negotiate a previously executed contract when one is already the high bidder is scummy in my opinion. Potential buyers need to read the listings carefully and iron out any gray area before they bid.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/812832/ |
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)
February 13, 2008
08:43 PM Post #4535149
| In my opinion, a seller's experience with a buyer is only partially completed upon receipt of payment (I'm not talking legal contracts here, but the overall experience which is what determines whether you want to do business with a particular person ever again, or would recommend that others do business with them). For a lot of buyers, once they pay then everything's fine and the seller's experience with them really is done, but there are some slimy people out there who will pay on time, but then they'll lie about the condition of the plants they receive to try and get free stuff out of the sellers, or blame sellers for their black thumbs, etc, and I think sellers ought to have the right to leave negative feedback for people like that. If you force them to leave feedback as soon as they receive payment and don't let them change their feedback later, then other sellers will never know that buyer's a jerk who they shouldn't do business with. And I think the secret ballot system that Dave suggested on the other thread could allow sellers the freedom to wait a little longer to leave their feedback for the buyer without getting into the blackmail situation that existed on ebay. |
Marylyn_TX
Houston, TX
(Zone 9a)
February 13, 2008
08:44 PM Post #4535157
| I agree, ecrane3. Well stated. |
Equilibrium
February 13, 2008
09:20 PM Post #4535267
| Not much I can say at this point other than that the secret ballot system is just that, secret until both parties will have left feedback. This type of a system won't exactly foster an evironment of openness. I strongly suspect if that type of feedback is what buyers are given to rely upon, this new auction site will end up no better than the former eBay. With a santioned shroud of secrecy in place, few will be the wiser. Sunshine and rainbows for everyone at least according to the feedback. |
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)
February 13, 2008
09:34 PM Post #4535317
| For me, I don't see a problem with keeping things secret temporarily until both parties have had an opportunity to leave feedback. If the 2nd person chooses not to leave feedback within a given time frame, it was already suggested on the other thread that the first person's feedback then becomes public anyway, and the 2nd person loses their ability to leave feedback for the first person (so that you don't get any retaliation). If you get rid of the secret ballot idea, then you're back to Ebay's system which we already know doesn't work. No feedback system is going to be perfect, but I think Dave's idea is a big improvement over the way Ebay does things. And knowing Dave, if we try that way for a while and things aren't working, he'll solicit ideas to fix it and take care of things. |
Melissa_Ohio
Southwestern, OH
(Zone 6b)
February 14, 2008
12:05 AM Post #4535896
| correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think that you could go back and change a positive to a negative on ebay?
You say blaming their black thumb on you? How many weeks/months are you planning on waiting before you leave feedback?
I think that only negative feedback would be the easiest... no feedback for normal transactions, and negative feedback only when someone doesn't pay, or doesn't ship etc. and you can keep the rebuttal like the Garden Watchdog if you want, and leave the opportunity for the negative to be changed... at which point, the "feedback" would disappear, and the person would go back to having no feedback, which in this case would be a GOOD thing. If we did it like that, a seller doesn't have to wait to make sure a person isn't going to complain before they leave feedback, and a buyer doesn't have to wait for the seller to deem the proper time has elapsed to put up feedback. Because there is no feedback persay.
If there is a problem, and it can't be resolved, then negative should be left by either party.
I think if the rating system was approached like that, where no one has to rely on getting a positive rating, but DOES have to worry about getting a negative rating that it would be simpler and much more even than a traditional ebaylike feedback system.
If the feedback system here is the same as it is/was at ebay, then what is going to entice the buyer to come here? You can have all the sellers you want, without buyers it will go no where. |
ecrane3
Dublin, CA
(Zone 9a)
February 14, 2008
12:15 AM Post #4535942
| The feedback system isn't going to be the same as Ebay, that's the whole point of these discussions that are going on is to talk about what should be done different. |
starlight1153
Seale, AL
(Zone 8b)
February 14, 2008
12:11 PM Post #4537259
| Just a thought, we have dg watchdog, which is a good system, you can read all the positives and negatives and then decide if you want to take a chance on that company or not.
What about having a Dg auction watchdog seperate? Might be a bit easier and fatster to look up feedback, if the auction site seperate. Since you want to try and keep as much of the auction stuf f seprate from Dg . |
Equilibrium
February 14, 2008
12:51 PM Post #4537438
| Nice thoughts Melissa_Ohio. Would need a system of checks and balances incorporated into it though. Let's say a buyer claims their seller didn't ship within the time frame the listing stated and a seller is sitting on a delivery confirmation receipt stating the item was not only shipped but received within the allocated time frame. I believe a seller should be in a position to request that a negative feedback such as that be removed and that their request should be honored. Another example would be a buyer claiming a seller did not reply to d-mails or e-mails. D-mails are easy enough for Admins to check out because even though we have a delete function, they're never really deleted but just moved to a different location. E-mails are actually easy enough to check too because many people silently use certified delivery receipts when there may be a need to document a correspondence has been sent and received. There are many services out there that can tell you when an e-mail has been sent and when it was received. If a seller was in a position to provide certified documentation that an e-mail(s) had been sent and received (these services also certify the content of the e-mail as well) then I believe it only fair for that type of feedback for a seller be able to be removed too. I'm sure there are other examples of feedback that should be able to be removed.
Feedback should have some simple guidelines and top of the list would be that it should be factual. No personal attacks.
A total number of transactions per buyer and per seller would be an extremely beneficial tool. |
Melissa_Ohio
Southwestern, OH
(Zone 6b)
February 14, 2008
01:18 PM Post #4537554
|
| Quoted: |
A total number of transactions per buyer and per seller would be an extremely beneficial tool. |
| Quoted: | | I believe it only fair for that type of feedback for a seller be able to be removed too. I'm sure there are other examples of feedback that should be able to be removed. |
I agree with both points.
| Quoted: | | The feedback system isn't going to be the same as Ebay, that's the whole point of these discussions that are going on is to talk about what should be done different. |
But, each time a suggestion is made, folks come in and squash it if it somehow does not benefit the seller. Call it another name, ask for it to be like the Garden Watchdog, but the truth of the matter is anything that relies on mutual feedback will be the same as ebay.
I keep reading over and over again how upstanding everyone is in their selling ethics, I don't disagree with that, everyone who is currently a member here and participating in the discussion most likely is. BUT, it's not going to take very long for "outsiders" to come in and start selling. THAT is who I want protection from, THAT is who I want not to be able to hold feedback over my head, THAT is who I want not to be able to profit from questionable business/auction practices.
I realize that eventuallybad sellers will be weeded out, but, at what expense to how many members/buyers? I certainly don't want to be the one who finds an unethical seller, but I don't want anyone else to either, and I think anything we can do to discourage those types of people from participating here should be done now, in the beginning. Much easier to set it up that way in the beginning and discourage them from coming here in the first place than to weed them out later on.
|
Marylyn_TX
Houston, TX
(Zone 9a)
February 14, 2008
01:23 PM Post #4537580
| Yep, yep, yep... I agree with everything you said, Eq. |
gordo
Gulfport, FL
(Zone 9b)
February 14, 2008
01:34 PM Post #4537639
| Again, unscrupulous sellers shoot themselves in the foot. Every mishandled or fraudulent transaction earns them the consequence of banishment from something designed to benefit themselves and the community at large. The administrators stand ready and vigilant. Let's let them do their work... |
Equilibrium
February 14, 2008
01:37 PM Post #4537650
| I'm not afraid of the Buried Treasures out there. They are professionals and they are in business for the long haul. Sure they've probably made a few mistakes over the years but I'm sure they bent over backwards to make them right. To err is human and all of these sellers are human. My biggest concerns have pretty much been outlined by me but I'd like to add one more that just came to mind. What happens if we bid on a plant from a DGer and get more than just the plant... er uh... hitch hikers? How the heck are we going to write up feedback that includes we just received a plant infested with scale for somebody who is a regular poster who is popular without getting jumped in the threads by their faithful followers? Now there's a not so pleasant thought. |
Melissa_Ohio
Southwestern, OH
(Zone 6b)
February 14, 2008
01:56 PM Post #4537733
| Equil, I for one will NOT have the same user name as I do on the threads.
Granted, I'm a buyer, and the sellers probably want their same names... but I will keep my "socializing" and my buying totally separate. I don't mix the two in real life, I'm not going to mix it here.
I'll most likely use the same name here I do at ebay. Just in case anyone wants to check my "feedback". ;)
|
Marylyn_TX
Houston, TX
(Zone 9a)
February 14, 2008
02:23 PM Post #4537855
| That's why I suggested using different names and/or having the system assign us numbers at the very beginning. I think it would be very wise of people to use different names, but a lot of people are going to choose not to. |
Equilibrium
February 14, 2008
06:33 PM Post #4538848
| I'd really prefer to use my own user name. It's just better for me. If everyone else starts using different user names how the heck am I going to even be able to recognize the people who are subscribers who I'd be willing to buy from until these feedback issue gets resolved? I guess I'll have to wait it out and let others be the experimental guinea pigs because I was really looking forward to being able to buy from people in my own community rather than from unknowns on eBay. When you have a common bond with someone, they have a tendency of looking at you as a person rather than $$$. I have no relationships with anyone at eBay. I'm not saying that I didn't purchase some really nice plants when I used to bid on their plant auctions but their feedback issues left me incapable of making educated decisions on whose lots to bid on and whose lots not to bid on.
Here's a classic scenario. This is actually one of the bad things that happened to me that I couldn't leave negative feedback on before I stopped bidding on anything at eBay. I bid on several orchids and in order to get more for my shipping costs, I additionally purchased a few other tropicals from his shop. Prior to bidding, I corresponded with him and asked him if it was his intent to ship Priority and provide me with a tracking number and also if he would be able to add a few 60 hour heat packs at my expense since I'm in Illinois. He said he always shipped USPS Priority and he always included delivery confirmation and that he had a whole box of heat packs that he could add so all was fine other than that the heat packs would cost me an additional $3.50 a piece so I needed to add $10.50 to my final total. I also asked him if it would be ok to knock off the cost of insurance for $300 worth of plants because I knew the USPS didn't insure plants and wouldn't pay out any claim even if insurance was purchased if they were received damaged and he said he knew that plants weren't covered and that he really needed to remove the offer of insurance from his plant listings because of that. Ok, great... we're both on the same page and based on the number of plants I was purchasing I tendered enough additional money to add three 60-hour heat packs to the package and included that I had added an additional amount to cover the cost of adding three 60-hour heat packs to my package in the PayPal comments section. I got my box of plants and he did in fact ship USPS Priority with a delivery confirmation. One big problem, he didn't use three 60-hour heat packs like he said he would. I kid you not, the man tossed one 24-hour heat pack in the box with all the plants I had purchased. When I contacted him (the evening of the day I received his plants) and provided him with photos of the condition of his plants as well as a photo of the one 24-hour heat pack he had tossed in the box and asked him to provide me with an address to ship his plants back to him since they did not withstand shipping and were looking a lot like mushy celery from having frozen during transit, he told me he was in compliance with eBay's user agreement and that I could ship the plants back to him but he wouldn't be refunding my money or replacing any of the plants because it was my fault for bidding on plants at that time of year. I was home when his box came because I had to sign for it so it never sat outside. The plants froze during shipping and if he had put in three 60-hour heat packs like what I bought and paid for, his plants wouldn't have frozed because he had used 2 day Priority Mail. I couldn't leave negative feedback for this seller. Isn't that a shame? And, even with correspondences that were certified and even with the PayPal receipt including comments regarding my purchase of three 60-hour heat packs, and the photos taken the day I received the plants; this guy was basically telling me to go pound salt because he was protected by eBay's policies and he knew I wouldn't be in a position to leave negative feedback for him because he hadn't left it for me when I paid in full.
I've never had anything even remotely similar to this happen to me when I've bought plants from DG subscribers. If anything, the plants I have received were the best of the best and extra care was taken in packaging them because I was a DG subscriber. Something to think about since we're not all going to be dealing with each other and even if we are dealing with each other we might not know we are. |
gordo
Gulfport, FL
(Zone 9b)
February 14, 2008
07:03 PM Post #4538977
| I'm glad I wait to sell tropicals until the Spring. :-)
I go through fits keeping track of the weather in every state.
There are just to many what ifs when shipping tropicals during extreme weather conditions - with or without heat packs. I've ordered plants out of season, with heat packs and the little guys arrived COOKED! Other times, the heat packs fail and plants arrived melted unto death.
I'm a waiter, (will you have a drink before the appetizer, sir?) and find other gardening tasks to perform during the off season.
You sure went through a lot of heartache... |
starlight1153
Seale, AL
(Zone 8b)
February 14, 2008
07:19 PM Post #4539058
| Just sitting here thinking of a possible way to help save save Dave on space, since he not gonna be chargign listing fees.
I know on ebay I always check feedback first. if it les s than 100 i check the first page or two to see what folsk saying. If I don't fidn anythign bad in a one or two month time period , I go ahead and buy from them. Sometimes no matter how perfect a selelr is they may always have a tiny hick-up or somebody just being mean.
Unless it changed the last time I looked ebay stored all feedback from day one. That a whoel lot of threads and space Dave woudl have to keep, especially if he ends up with oodles of sellers and buyers.
Why not have an archieved feedback system for the auction like on a few other places. Some folsk will be selling plants and seeds right away. Somemay be booking orders ahead of time. Daylilies and bulbs comes to mind.
To keep free listing, then what about so many months in active feedback for sellers and buyers and also what ya bought, Then when that active time is up those actiosn go to archive so for so long and then after that period they just disappear. That might make it alot easier on Dave and not use all his bandwidth or whatever it is called up and force him to have to charge folks more.
This also gives folks that buy somethign now and dont get delivery til a later season, tiem to come back and leave feedback. |
Equilibrium
February 14, 2008
08:24 PM Post #4539391
| gordo- According to my notes, I have over 650 completed transactions with eBay since the year 2001. All but one of them was paid for within 24 hours of auction's close thanks to PayPal and BidPay. Interestingly enough, feedback has only been left for me on less than half of those transactions because of all the game playing over there but additionally because I am always a buyer and would not leave feedback for a seller unless they left it for me first and I didn't care how many times they contacted me asking for feedback promising to leave it for me... it wasn't going to happen unless the seller left it for me first. Here's where it gets interesting. My guess is that one out of 50 of my total transactions went south which means the vast majority of sellers were good honorable people. I'm not counting the hicups or the mistakes that I don't believe to have been intentional but just the transactions where I feel relatively confident the seller was trying to pull a fast one on me. What does this mean to me? There are aprx.13 sellers out there who didn't get negative feedback who I could document were deserving of it. Multiply me by all the tens and tens and tens of thousands of eBay buyers out there and it's a wonder eBay didn't change their practices a long time ago to avoid such a massive exodus as what they are experiencing right now. They do have stock holders you know and eBay was losing buyers not sellers before the fee restructuring. I believe it was the loss of buyers that prompted the fee hike. So in reply to your comment that the heat pack deal was a heartache, it wasn't a heartache because I could afford to take a bath on the $300 or I wouldn't have bid. That last transaction was a wake up call that sellers had the upper hand over there and that feedback had become nothing more than some enigmatical figure that lulled buyers into a false sense of security, myself included.
I'm not a petty person and won't make a mountain out of a pack of seeds that didn't germinate true to type but I certainly didn't deserve to be exploited by a few unorthodox sellers to be left with little or no reasonable recourse and no means by which to vent by leaving negative feedback. |
gordo
Gulfport, FL
(Zone 9b)
February 14, 2008
08:39 PM Post #4539447
| "no means by which to vent by leaving negative feedback"
Well, thank goodness you're here and venting...
I'd hate to think of you going around carrying THAT burden!
It could lead to explosion...and your orchids would miss you terribly.
:-)
Keep the faith, Equal. |
Equilibrium
February 14, 2008
09:03 PM Post #4539565
| Should have stated little or no recourse through eBay. I always found eBay to be virtually obstructive. For what it's worth he wasn't a burden at all, I got him through a back door but I sooooooooo wanted to leave negative feedback for him so he wouldn't do it to somebody else who hadn't dotted all their i's and/or crossed all their t's with him. He knew what he was doing when he tossed one 24-hour hot pack in my box, he was gambling the weather would hold. He gambled to pad his wallet with an extra $9 and thought he had me backed into a corner because who wants to subject themself to eBay's Safe Harbor or what ever else they've got that's supposed to remedy situations like this. One 24-hour heat pack only costs about $1.50. I had paid for three 60-hour heat packs. This was not a case of a naive seller and I doubt seriously if he had Alzheimers.
I'm trying to keep the faith but now I'm starting to lose it because we haven't a clue what DG's Counsel is going to do about feedback and I guess we won't until the site is launched and now quite a few DGers are going to be selling under new user names so what am I going to do for a plant fix since eBay isn't an option?
gordo- Ummm, do you sell orchids ;) Will you be using the same user name at the new site? I'm feeling as if I need an orchid fix and fast. If I can at least order a few orchids even if I do have to wait for delivery until the weather breaks, I'll feel much better. There are no decent orchid nurseries close to me which sucks. |
gordo
Gulfport, FL
(Zone 9b)
February 14, 2008
09:41 PM Post #4539700
| Sorry Equil, I'm not an orchid person. I have so much plant material on my little plot, I fear I wouldn't be able to give them the care they demand.
As far as user names go, I'll comply with whatever is required...just don't call me Late For Dinner. ;-)
What the heck are you doing growing orchids up in the frozen north anyway? Don't you folks grow wheat and corn and barley? :-)
I know a great story about a guy who stole 5 pallets of sod from a construction site, tore the carpet out of his apartment, then replaced it with the sod. When the cops arrived, the living room was resplendent with Bahia grass, and he was summarily arrested in his Lazy Boy recliner.
So, the answer is yes. You can grow wheat indoors.
:-)
|
mistygardener
Saint James, MO
(Zone 6b)
February 14, 2008
09:43 PM Post #4539707
| He'd sure look funny in there with a lawn mower! :) |
GrammysGardenAZ
Cochise, AZ
(Zone 8b)
February 14, 2008
09:48 PM Post #4539741
| IMHO as a buyer. With Garden Watchdog type feedback, you would be able to go back and add to your original comments. The seller would then be able to respond. (I would call them first and say, "Hey about those seeds?") The other thing I like about the Watchdog is that not everyone leaves feedback on every transaction. I seldom look far at the feedback on EBAY when I buy. From my angle it has fallen to a nearly juvenile he said she said deal and is not very helpful. We need to try to keep the feedback here accurate so it is helpful and all need to remember that buyers can usually tell if the feedback is honest or a game. If I shop or bid, it will be my money, I will be the consumer and in most circumstances, I think my choice to comment or not. If I don't send $, you don't send merchandise. Like at the live auctions I love so much, I the buyer doesn't pay, they aren't welcome at that auction house. The admins at this site have no problem removing problem posters and I don't expect them to have many problems with dead beats on the auctions. I also expect that Dave will give us a good, clean feedback system. |
Equilibrium
February 14, 2008
10:36 PM Post #4539981
|
| Quoted: | | Sorry Equil, I'm not an orchid person. I have so much plant material on my little plot, I fear I wouldn't be able to give them the care they demand. |
How about Tacca spp.? I like to kill those. I kill those quite well so I'll have a need for more. I have bought quite a few healthy Tacca plants that I have promptly killed so those I need to try again and again. I do not want to be beat by a plant and that one has been doing me in for years. That's one that's on my list to keep buying until I can get one to live for a year. There are other plants that I would like to try keeping alive that I have killed off. I think I've killed every species of plant save one that I bought for myself from Buried Treasures in short order. I know they sent healthy plants to me that were packed properly. The man-handling wasn't on their end it was on mine so no fault on their behalf. I was experimenting with tropicals and I am solely responsible for killing them all but that won't stop me from buying more to play with.
Orchids do great for me. I have very few casualties with orchids and I have quite a few picky/fussy ones. I have them all in the house spread out through a few rooms with supplemental lighting and supplemental humidity when necessary. Hoyas aslo do fine for me. I have a decent sized commercial greenhouse that's for carnivorous and insectivorous plants only. I keep my precious bug biters separate from all other plants. I grow lots of things out here other than wheat, corn, barley, and soybeans! |
HaroldS
Glendale, AZ
February 17, 2008
02:32 PM Post #4550842
| I like the idea of only posting negatives. Recently I had to hire a roofing contractor and used both our state registrar of contractors' site and BBB to check on bidders. Neither one wastes space listing positive comments. Only negatives and their resoultion.
Actually on eBay as a buyer I was more interested in negatives of sellers, and as a seller I looked at buyers negatives or lack thereof. There definitely should be the capability of responding to a negative by either party. |
gessiegail
Taft, TX
(Zone 9a)
February 20, 2008
10:09 PM Post #4566570
| I am exhausted from all this concern about feedback. If I sell I want people to know who I am because I have no feedback at all. If we, as DGers, can trade plants as long as we have and everyone is happy, what is the big deal about all this? We are basically good people and want to do right by our customers.
That is why I love the Garden Watchdog...a chance for both sides to redeem themselves should something go wrong...and things do go wrong sometimes.
I wouldn't consider doing anything that I had negative feelings about, including this. Dave has things under control.
Being 65 years old, I could write a book on all the negative things that have happened in my life, but I choose not to...
Just my 2 cents worth
gail |
bellieg
Virginia Beach, VA
February 28, 2008
02:26 PM Post #4601384
| I just got a neutral feedback from Greece. I did everything right on my end but somehow the package went to canada and stayed there for 3 weeks even with me trying to speed up USPS. Meantime he was very threatening and wanted to cancel but I told .that I will not reimburse till the investigation is over. I emailed him this AM to withdaw the feedback. He got the merchandise after 5 weeks.Any thoughts on this? Thank you. bellieg |
Seed_Sprout
Fountain, FL
February 28, 2008
09:43 PM Post #4602929
| I got a negative from a buyer who said they never received the package. I had the tracking number and delivery confirmation. When I confronted eBay with the situation I was told I could hire a mediator for $20.00 to negotiate with the buyer about the feedback. (In their dreams!!!)
I have not left feedback for them as they did pay and Paypal would not give them a refund. I did notice on their feedback that they do claim quite a few items as "didn't receive" or not as described. Me thinks me smells a rat with them. |
gessiegail
Taft, TX
(Zone 9a)
February 29, 2008
12:16 AM Post #4603542
| Oh my gosh...I would replace it in a heartbeat if I were a seller. Even in trades, if something happens beyond their control, I feel obligated to make good. This happened to me with Lyndon Lyons. He sent it via UPS where the heat index that day was 106 and the plants arrived dead dead dead! Paul Sorano couldn't have been nicer and sent me new big plants. Do I order from him often? Every chance I can.
I find it hard to believe that you would need to seek advice on this one. I am so sorry but I am speaking the truth as a buyer or a seller. |
Seed_Sprout
Fountain, FL
February 29, 2008
11:02 AM Post #4604545
| If they had been a regular customer of ours I would have replaced it. One of our regular customers would not have been nasty like this person was. I did offer them another plant if they paid the shipping. They would not even agree to that and left a negative. When I looked at their feedback, they had done the same thing to numerous sellers so no, I would not give them anything. |
gessiegail
Taft, TX
(Zone 9a)
February 29, 2008
11:25 AM Post #4604620
| This was on my first order from Lyndon Lyons and they certainly didn't ask me to pay for any postage...he was so nice and apologetic...I was a brand new customer at that time a year ago and now I am a regular. |
Equilibrium
February 29, 2008
01:03 PM Post #4604997
| I'm not a seller- don't have any plants I'd be willing to sell and don't plan on ever having a nursery. I would like to be a buyer though and am hoping this all gets sorted out before the auction site is launched so all buyers and sellers are comfortable.
bellieg, maybe to avoid future hassles with unreasonable buyers you could state in your listing that you won't ship out of the continental US? For as much as we all complain about our US Postal System, it is one of the finest in the world but it's nowhere near perfect. I'm sure your buyer realized s/he had purchased from an overseas seller as presumably your location was disclosed in the listing so it's not as if s/he would have been left with any reason to believe the package would be there overnight. If the neutral feedback was left because of shipping time when you can prove you shipped it within the time frame your listing stated you would ship using the carrier your listing stated you would use, I'd hope there'd be a way to have that neutral removed. Seems unreasonable to me that a seller should get dinged for a misrouted purchase that had a tracking number on it.
Seed_Sprout, I couldn't help but notice you claimed to have both a tracking number and a delivery confirmation for your buyer. Presumably, the delivery confirmation provided the date and time the plants you shipped had been delivered or PayPal would have sided with the buyer. Regardless of whether or not a buyer has a history of claiming "didn't receive" or "not as described", I don't believe another plant should be offered when a delivery confirmation exists. The first plant undoubtedly made it to the mailing address your buyer provided. Even if insurance had been purchased, USPS wouldn't have paid a claim when there's a delivery confirmation so why should any seller? It should be the responsibility of the buyer to figure out what happened to it if in fact something really happened to it at all when a delivery confirmation is involved. Sounds an awful lot to me as if there are some buyers out there who are preying on the gessigail sellers of the world to get two-for-one plants because they know most sellers wouldn't condone spending $20 to hire a negotiator to mediate. I hope a reasonable feedback removal mechanism will be in place to help discourage this type of behavior so sellers aren't strong armed into sending "replacement" plants. Now, if there had been no delivery confirmation purchased... I don't know what I'd do if I was a seller and I honestly don't know what would be reasonable to expect from the buyer's side. I was always a buyer and saw all this going on so I simply made it a practice not to bid on any lot unless a seller's listing stated delivery confirmation would be included or unless I made arrangements with the seller prior to bidding to include it at my expense. I want what I bid on yet on the other hand I really want to avoid situations where hard feelings would abound on both sides.
Spring is in the air, I'm sort of chomping at the bit to have a safe place to bid on plants. |
