Just got 16 bantam Rock eggs in the mail today, they seemed very well packaged. I candled them to check integrity of air sacs and noticed that six of the eggs have air sacs floating all around the inside of the egg. Has anyone successfully (or not) hatched eggs like these? Please help...Scott
Floating air sacs
but that is impossible it is probably the yolk you see or the air sack is on the side of the eggs except the end but it cant be in the midle
edited to say i am completely wrong on this subject thanks for listening
This message was edited Sep 28, 2008 5:59 PM
Hi Scott--I haven't tried hatching eggs with "tremulous air cells," but Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens says: "The air cell has become detached and quivers or appears somewhere other than at the large end of the egg. As the cell moves around, the membrane will deteriorate and eventually rupture. Cause: the egg was handled roughly, was stored at a high temperature, or was defective when laid."
And in Storey's Guide to Raising Poultry it says: "Tremulous or loose air cells also affect hatchability; use care in handling eggs to prevent this."
So it doesn't sound good. Aren't batam eggs a little more delicate? I've been reading up on the Serama and they sound very hard to hatch--but wonderful once you get them.
Luckycharm, the air sac was floating all around the inside perimeter of the egg, not in the middle. But it was definitely not the yolk, as you spin the eggs, you can see the transparent air sac follow the high point in the egg.
Thanks Cat, for the assistance in determining the cause (and technical term) for this condition. I spoke with the person who shipped these eggs, he advised to let the eggs sit for a day before putting them into the incubator and that they should be okay. Hoping he is right....Scott
You are falling into the Serama trap also...hmm...whatever you do, don't go onto "youtube" and search serama, otherwise you will find the videos of them posturing, and the videos of them crowing, and then you will go onto eggbid and buy their eggs..LOL...Scott
I hope you can get some to hatch, Maine. I recvd 2 boxes
of hatching eggs from 2 different people, and they were
each packed very differently, one good and one with many
eggs broken. But, I ended up with 2 birds hatched from each
sender. I dislike the the eggs being rough handled, and if I
ship someone eggs in the future, I plan to do my best to ensure
they get them in the best possible condition. With my low hatch
rate, I accept the loss, but look forward to having mating pairs
right in my back yard.
Let us know how the eggs with the tremulous air cells (love that term) go. I am having some eggs shipped next month and know that travel can be hard on them. It would useful to know whether to even try incubating eggs with floating air cells. Good luck!
I am borderline anal, so will keep accurate records of which eggs have "TAC's" and if the hatch ratio is consistent with the others. I will keep this thread updated
The air sacs in my last batch of incubator eggs only become detached after the chicks started to develope. I dont konw what caused it...but none of my chicks hatched (although 6 of the 10 did fully develop).
well it looks like i was proved wrong now dosent ithow on earth did the air sack get into the inner egg i always thought that there was a wall blocking the airsack from were the yolk is
Luckycharm, I think that's the point. The membrane must have ruptured allowing the air sac to float all around. Next question is what does that mean for the viability of this egg? If I was a betting man, my money would be on tossing these eggs now. But I have to know for sure, and there's only one way to find out...Scott
What color are serama eggs, Maine? I guess you will know
very soon what you have.
The serama eggs that I purchased are all light-med. brown, seems they are thin shelled and very easy to candle. I don't know if that is consistent with all serama. I purchased eggs from three separate breeders, and they were all very similar in size and appearance. They are small, even for a bantam egg. Batch #1 23 of 30 are alive and well at day 17. Batch #2 13 of 16 alive at day 16. Batch #3 4 of 16 alive at day 10 (many of the embryos died around day four). The exciting thing about Serama is that there are few if any color standards yet, so hatch day should be like opening "a box of choc-o-lates" to quote Mr. Gump.
Those are great numbers, Maine. I've never seen bantam
seramas, and look forward to pic- tures. I will be banding
my birds when older. I want to track the best, and mix up
the genetics with future hatching eggs.
Candled the TAC eggs, NONE are viable, most of the others are okay tho.
Out of 16 eggs, eight are growing. Should I ask the dealer for something in exchange or let it ride, anyone?
My thought would be to let it ride. Most say they have no
control over egg package handling, anyway. And, if this
seller did offer to send more, what would make them change
the packing or labelling on the package? Are they fair about
shipping costs, or are they getting some extra? I try to be an
optimist, but what's to stop someone from knowingly sending
bad eggs to make a buck and unload them, when there's no
Time in the incubator, and the rest of your investment in caring for chicks is too valuable, when you may find the same from a better
packer, handler, breeder.
may princess tammy's Wednesday be a happy one.
I agree with truest, except if you have observed that one way of shipping is much more successful than another, it might be helpful to let the TAC shipper know. I'm sure they don't want to send people damaged eggs. Maybe there is a nice way to tell them?
Of course maybe there are jerks who really don't care--I sure hope not, I've already sent a check in for Barnevelder eggs later this spring.
This message was edited Feb 27, 2008 1:30 PM
So, is the consensus that it is probably best not to try to incubate TAC eggs? It sounds that way--has anyone been successful with them?
This message was edited Mar 1, 2008 11:16 AM
I just got 15 eggs in the mail from Ca. yesterday. 6 of 15 have TAC. I barely have room, but I can't help but give them a try - 5 days isn't too much to invest, coincidentally these are also bantam Rock eggs - same as the other TAC eggs...hmm...sensing a pattern here. If none of these take, I will have made up my mind about wether to try incubating any more TAC eggs (or mail ordering bantam Rock eggs).
Update on the first TAC eggs - Eggbid Dealer "dickschicks" gets two thumbs up!! He was very reasonable, more so than he had to be, offered to send replacement eggs if I pay S/H.
I think I would want to try too. As you say, it is only for a few days. I'm watching your results carefully, my eggs should start arriving in a couple weeks:-)
i need to understand this right. if when you candle an egg, befor eincubation, you see the air sac moving around, it is TAC? And about 50% chance it is viable?
It's interesting to see this thread. I had something similar happen to eggs I got last year. Most of the eggs, though well padded, could shift around a little in the box (a big no-no! you shouldn't feel anything shake when you gently shake the packed box), and so I think the shaking caused the problem. In my case, the air cells were mostly gone--and when I turned an egg end over end in my hand, I could feel the contents shift around!!!! I think in many of the eggs the membrane that holds the air cell in was broken & those eggs didn't hatch. A few the air cell apparently revived in, and they did hatch.
This isn't quite your problem, but it seemed to relate. I don't have high hopes for your eggs, but best wishes!
P.S. Were these White Rock bantam eggs? Or another Rock variety?
They are Barred, Columbian, Buff Columbian, and Partridge Rocks. Yes, TF you can see the air cell moving all around inside the egg, as to the chance the eggs are viable, none of the TAC eggs were in the first batch, and it's too soon to know about these others.
Just curious because I raise White Rock bantams myself, and love them. I feel really bad for anyone deprived of having them! :-)
should i contact the seller? these eggs weren't cheap you know. or wait till i candle them better. or wait 7 days in incubator.
they wre very nice & did a good job packing them. i don't recall any guarantee in the listing...
It is so frustrating--I googled TAC (well the full term), and there are quite a few scientific journal articles on it, but you have to pay for them. It seems to be a significant commercial production problem. One women, talking about turkeys and quail on another forum, says not to bother even trying with TAC eggs. Also a man says that he always thought that it was best to go "from vent to incubator" , that is, the less time the eggs waited before incubating the better, but apparently a period of dormancy allows the air cell to orient itself and increases hatchability. Hmmm. Maybe travel interrupts the normal development of the air cell in fresh eggs and makes them more vulnerable to TAC.
could it also have to do with nutrition? my hens always had thick shells and thick membranes... time of year could affect its thickness too. there is always a loss when things are rushed ahead of mother nature's way...
I think it is definitely linked to nutrition and time of year, TamaraFaye. Poor hens, we ask so much of them. But is it so much of a problem if the hen is incubating her own eggs? Maybe there is something you can do with nutrition etc to increase the hatchability of eggs that are going to be shipped? This seems to be an excerpt from a book on egg production and looks interesting.
really interesting! dont' know why they bothered with the table, since it "differs substantially between breeds"
certainly some of my hens started laying smaller eggs, after being moved a couple o ftimes and very stressed. so i suppose as spring comes and the food available is more varied than the grains they get during hte winter months, they will fill out again and egg size will increase. so if they go broody in the summer, i will let them do their thing, they will likely do better that the incubator, esp considering they will have more weight and will produce larger eggs which are likely to produce larger healthier chicks...
i am going to keep reading, just wanted you to know i was there...
i've been wanting to weigh my eggs to see how they measure up. originally, in their first year of production, would have been a good time to hatch out. they had Jumbo eggs which graded about AAA, always more than AA...
now weighing the dozen eggs would help with knowing hatchability...
too bad they don't go into detail abou tthe TACs, and it won't let me cut and paste...
whew! what a read, filled with commercial facts. so glad we are not into commercial production! we can focus on quality care & in return get quality production...
as far as my TACs go, i will put them in as SC suggested. & contact the egg shipper about the old eggs. there is likely nothing she could do about the TACs, though, according to the booklink from catscan, some eggs are LAID that way!
i saw lots of grease spots too! i was hoping that being from Southern Cal, & the owner free ranging them, & they grow organic heirloom produce, that these would be eggs from healthy well fed birds... & the pictures showed healthy well fed birds. so i will hope for the best.
thanks everyone for all tjis info! now if i can just get good at candling...
That might be a problem for me also, TF. But we will try to get it right and maybe someday will get there...LOL.
Today I too recieved what I paid way too much for in eggs that arrived with ALL broken air sacs. and is why i found this thread. So it will be the last time for me. Im tired of it. I can't tell if it's dishonest sellers, angry postal ppl or if it really is a mistake?
all i know is that ive been buying mail order eggs for over 15 years (ducks, quail, chickens, pheasant, etc) and only had this problem in the last two seasons from ebay and eggbid. I have bought from eggbid since it was eggbay and didnt have any problems back then either. so just in the last two seasons and only 4 times, 4 diff sellers. All 4 clutches were duck eggs. but of course each of these were the most expensive every time being pure and exotic breeds. i cant afford to pay for nothing. its funny though. when I buy less expensive bird eggs, they always show up inatct and get high hatch rates.
I have also never once seen this problem in any birds ive ever raised since i was in 6th grade and ive hatched lots of different types and breeds.
this is confusing and no sellers will own up to it.
try this: go to your refridgerator and candle the eggs we eat. should be NO difference and if they werent refridgerated at such low temps would probably hatch. see if they have broken air sacs?
if not, take one and shake it vigorously a few times like the post office might do. see the outcome by candling it again. shake it even harder and see what happens. it takes a LOT of force to break that up. and ALL chicken eggs we eat are shipped in shaky trucks to the stores and are nowhere near as fresh what hatching eggs are supposed to be.
id love to get to the bottom of this wonder.
I'm sorry about your duck eggs. That really sucks. I just got more eggs today and some yesterday with a few in each batch that had TAC's. Funny enough though, some of the eggs that I put in last week which had the TAC, are actually viable at this stage. I think there were two or three out of six which have begun to develop. Go figure...Scott
Keep reporting on your TACs Scott! I'm leaving tomorrow for a work trip and when I get back in a week I'm hoping my eggs will start arriving. The literature never actually says they "won't hatch" it just says it affects "hatchability" whatever that means:)
i really think it could be a nutrition or viability or genetic problem. i found some TACs in my OWN eggs. so now that i think about it, they could all be coming from one or two hens. i will take notes when i candle tomorrow night...
Hey you guys
When you buy eggs and they get shipped it all luck if they hatch
I've had some people hatch all but one or 2 that I've shipped
others ,they were fertile but broken air sac and nothing hatched
In one year I spent 400 on hatching eggs
and got maybe 10 to hatch
There was one group I paid 65 bucks for and hatched 1 cochin from it
My 65 dollar chik
Lat year I tried a dozen auracana(true)
all were fertile but the air cells got me
not a single hatched
thats why the trading is better
all you're out is postage
Thanks all - I am keeping careful notes and will share the results.