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Poultry and Livestock: Red Star vs Black Star

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saanansandy
Sue, RI
(Zone 6a)

February 26, 2008
3:22 PM

Post #4590496

I was looking for Black Star but have come across Red Star on some hatcheries websites. What is the difference, other than the color?
Thanks,
Sue ☺
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

February 27, 2008
12:24 AM

Post #4592970

somewhere i read aobut sex links. will see if i can find that link.

i think besides the color, they have different parents. both are hybrids i think. also i believe Meyer has Black Star, AKA Black Sex Link. a friend of mine has gotten good laying from the blacks.

tf
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

February 27, 2008
12:32 AM

Post #4593023

this is how you get a black hen:
"The third cross involves non-barred males such as Australorp, Black Leghorn, Rhode Island Red or Ancona mated with barred females such as Plymouth Rocks or Cuckoo Leghorns. The resulting chicks are all black or dark brown with varying degrees of white underneath, however whereas the females have dark brown or black heads, the males all carry a whitish spot on the back of their heads."

i think this is how they get the reds.:
"The first of these is the common gold to silver cross. Mating a gold male such as Rhode Island Red, Buff Rock, Buff Leghorn, Buff Orpington, Red or Buff Sussex to hens which are silver, such as Light Sussex, Light Brahma or pure White Wyandotte, results in all the cockerel (male) chicks having whitish grey or pale brown down, whereas the pullets (females) have reddish-brown or buff down."

I could be wrong. Maybe the Stars are purebred... ANYONE ELSE???



Catscan
Lodi
United States

February 27, 2008
12:41 AM

Post #4593082

I'm not sure about all the crosses, but the Star's are definitely hybrids.
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

February 27, 2008
1:23 AM

Post #4593431

Thanks, Cat, so that means a Black Star is a Black Sex link... maybe a particular one.

Sue, you could search the hatcheries again to see who has "Black Sex Link"

tf

FYI, here is the link for five ways to sex a chick:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/1889/20865

there are lots of ads, you have to scroll down to find the text and pictures...
granny_goody
Luther, MI
(Zone 4b)

February 27, 2008
3:48 AM

Post #4594300

Now I wonder what I am going to get with my RIR rooster and Black Australorp hens. Maybe a new sex-link? I think that would be neat.
Catscan
Lodi
United States

February 27, 2008
4:04 AM

Post #4594362

Okay, I finally found the answer: A Black Star (aka Black Sex-linked) is a Cross between a Rhode Island Red and Barred Plymouth Rock. And a Red Star (aka Red Sex-linked) is a cross between a Rhode Island Red and a White Leghorn. In plants hybrids you always list the maternal parent first, but I'm not sure if this is true with chickens. Anyway I know it is important which parent is which or you won't get the sex-linked plumage--which is the whole point. I love to Google!
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

February 27, 2008
4:22 AM

Post #4594425

the roos are RIR, hens are white, light or barred

cat, don't we learn way too much from google! ask.com just doesn't come close!

now i want YOUR link, you said it so much simpler...soSPILL YOUR SOURCES!

;-)

granny you'll get a big chicken! but no sex link since both parents are dark & solid.

Catscan
Lodi
United States

February 27, 2008
4:51 AM

Post #4594539

I don't think you want my sources--since I just found one that contradicts the one above--but only in that it says that the RIR (rooster?) is bred with a Rhode Island White (hen?) to produce a "Red-Sex-linked". I think this may be a question of whether you want brown (RIW) or white (White Leghorn) eggs. Both are commercial crosses. The hatcheries should indicate the egg color, which should suggest which cross is being made. There are a lot of possible sex-linked crosses...from what I understand it is because only the male has a "sex" chromosome so if you don't get that chromosome you are a female. Unlike human's with our xx=female/xy=male. Its 00=female/x0=male for chickens. And if some part of the feather color genes is only on the sex chromosomes, the males will get it and the females won't, hence the color difference. Does that make sense? I'm trying to work it out. One book I'm reading says that over 30 genes affect the feather colors and patterns of chickens. That's why they are so amazingly beautiful!

Is this the source you were using? http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Sex-links/BRKSexLink.html
This message was edited Feb 27, 2008 12:57 AM

This message was edited Feb 27, 2008 1:11 AM
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

February 27, 2008
5:13 AM

Post #4594596

no, my link i sabove. i will check out feathersite too.

i want to know what book you sare reading. i am very interested in genetics esp with color.
Catscan
Lodi
United States

February 27, 2008
5:34 AM

Post #4594674

My favorite book at the moment, and one with some good information on chicken genetics and plumage is "Storeys Illustrated Guide to Poultry Breeds." It is a lovely book. There is another fairly simple book on chicken genetics that I want to read, but I can't remember the name right now. I'll let you know when I find it.
saanansandy
Sue, RI
(Zone 6a)

February 27, 2008
12:55 PM

Post #4595177

Whew! I went to bed early last night(8:15) and missed alot!lol!
Since they are hybrids they may not produce offspring that looks like them or is that just in plants?
saanansandy
Sue, RI
(Zone 6a)

February 27, 2008
1:16 PM

Post #4595227

Ok Brain Fog in motion! Just read the link from above! Answered my own question. Thanks! :)
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

February 27, 2008
2:53 PM

Post #4595596

well i have brain fog too, but went to bed late, what's up with that??? must be contagious in this forum. too much fluff?

tf
granny_goody
Luther, MI
(Zone 4b)

February 27, 2008
5:38 PM

Post #4596446

Yep, too much fluff here. I went to bed early, but still have brain fog. Might clear up when I get my chickies started and also get my guineas. But until then? Not hardly.
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

February 27, 2008
9:29 PM

Post #4597456

no, once you ahve all those babies to take care of, you will be sleep deprived and need a vacation!
saanansandy
Sue, RI
(Zone 6a)

February 28, 2008
6:34 PM

Post #4601423

Meyer Hatchery informed me that black star is black sex-linked. I guess it depends on what the hatchery decides to call them!
Sue ☺
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

February 28, 2008
6:56 PM

Post #4601514

well, there ya go! just order them Meyer. they are a great company, out of Ohio. great customer service too!

tf
saanansandy
Sue, RI
(Zone 6a)

February 29, 2008
6:47 PM

Post #4605380

Yes they emailed me within 24 hours of me asking about the Black Star. That quick response is making me lean towards ordering with them. Did you do a phone order? The reason I'm asking is I tried doing a shopping cart with them and a window popped up saying their security certificate wasn't recognized?! So I wasn't sure if I should do an internet order.
Catscan
Lodi
United States

February 29, 2008
6:52 PM

Post #4605400

I did a phone order and was very happy with the result. They seem very responsible.
saanansandy
Sue, RI
(Zone 6a)

February 29, 2008
6:57 PM

Post #4605421

Thanks Cat
gardener105
Bend, OR
(Zone 5a)

February 29, 2008
6:59 PM

Post #4605427

Hi everyone, haven't been on here in ages. I got both Red Star and Black Star year before last and love them. The only thing I have noticed is they're terrible pluckers. Here's a pic of a red one, another red one's head and a black one next to the Plymouth Barred Rock. They're excellent layers and lay very large brown eggs, even larger than the Barred Rock's. They've layed all winter long for me as well. I have 5 of ea. Forgot to mention, I got them from McMurray and was very happy, all survived.
Susan

This message was edited Feb 29, 2008 11:01 AM

Thumbnail by gardener105
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TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

February 29, 2008
10:10 PM

Post #4606071

nice looking! they laid all winter their second year? that's fabulous!

yes, Sue, do a phone order. a nice person can keep their CS job!
granny_goody
Luther, MI
(Zone 4b)

February 29, 2008
11:42 PM

Post #4606331

TF, my RIRs, Buffs, Barred, White rocks, and Araucanas laid all winter the second year also. It was the third year they cut back so much. So, from now on, I will hatch (or buy) them in spring, keep them for two years and then in spring of third year cull them. If I remember right, that's what an old farmer I used to know told me, too. If I hatch or buy the second year, I will be banding them to make sure I get the oldest ones culled and not the young layers.
chickenrancher
Nova, OH
(Zone 5b)

March 2, 2008
2:27 PM

Post #4612094

If you want to order from Meyer you have to call they are updating their system so the online ordering is currently unavailable.
Granny, if you don't want to catch every bird to see if its banded you could rotate 3 different breeds so you know which birds by their breed are 3 years old and table ready. Just a thought but I know most people like to keep a mix of breeds. I have 3 breeds myself and looking to get more this year!
granny_goody
Luther, MI
(Zone 4b)

March 2, 2008
4:08 PM

Post #4612447

Rancher, I don't intend to buy day-olds if I don't have to. I intend to hatch my own, and right now, I have 1 RIR rooster and the rest are Black Australorp. So, it would be easier to band them. The bands I have are colored enough to see them without catching them. They are the plastic spiral bands in red, green and a dark green. If my Australorps are not pure (and I am suspecting they are not), then we may get some other colors in there. But, it just makes sense to me to band.
chickenrancher
Nova, OH
(Zone 5b)

March 2, 2008
4:39 PM

Post #4612557

It was just a thought. I didn't intend to make it sound as if you shouldn't band your birds. Sorry. Now I'm curious what your birds will look like with that cross.
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

March 2, 2008
5:54 PM

Post #4612833

granny, i too am curious if my BAs are BAs or Black Stars. of twenty, only three are still mostly black. white tips are normal, but at 2 1/2 weeks old, 17 birds have barring on their wings. sounds like sex link roos to me. sounds like freezer birds... so i will either have to start over with the BAs or just be happy with my BA crossed with JG. the feed store and the hatchery were un-cooperative about it, the first being certain they are BAs, the second not giving out any info on what was ordered by or actually sent to the feed store...

time will tell! if they are sex link, i have a buyer for the three hens...

so, granny, what do your BA chicks look like, ho wold are they? i will have a cable for my camera by fedex Monday, so i can start posting pictures...
granny_goody
Luther, MI
(Zone 4b)

March 2, 2008
9:12 PM

Post #4613440

TF, mine are not chicks. They are last years chicks but one of the roos has gold tipping on the hackles. The others are all black. But they seem to be small for BAs from the description that is in McMurray's. When I called McM and sent them a picture, they told me it was a throw-back to the original Buff that they were bred from. Maybe so. But, don't know for sure. Prettiest rooster I have ever seen, tho.

I intend to set eggs in two weeks, but am having trouble with the bator. Can't seem to get the temp right. If I have the regulator in, the temp stays too low. If I take it out, the temp stays too high. It's a Hova-bator, but I lost the instructions to it and am winging it. So, we shall see what we shall see. If the temp doesn't come up with the regulator, I will take it out and adjust the bator to do the right temp without it.
Catscan
Lodi
United States

March 2, 2008
9:33 PM

Post #4613501

Hi granny, I think you can download the instructions for some models on this site:
http://www.gqfmfg.com/store/instructions.asp
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

March 2, 2008
10:25 PM

Post #4613661

well, BAs shouldn't be breed from original buffs! they have always been black! the only throw backs are blues now & then. your Aussie's should have a green sheen to them...
http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/Shows/AndyVardy/aust.html

granny, keep the rregulator in, and just get the temp as close as you can, with the water trays filled. Rh affects the temp. so will the eggs. mother nature doesn't give the hen perfect settings, so don't fret... tomorrow is a good day for setting eggs according to the almanac, actually starting this evening, that's when i am setting the last of mine.

thanks catscan. i have two hovabators without instructions. i think you tol dme before & i forgot!

[not my roo]...

Thumbnail by TamaraFaye
Click the image for an enlarged view.

granny_goody
Luther, MI
(Zone 4b)

March 2, 2008
11:37 PM

Post #4613894

TF, If you look at the description that's in McM's catalog, it says the BA was bred from an Australian chicken and an English Orpington. I don't know if that Orpington was buff or black. But, my Bruno does have the green sheen and my Clyde has gold-tipped hackle feathers. That's the reason I am wondering if they are pure BAs. When I called and sent them a picture of him, they told me he was a "throwback" which is why I am thinking the English Orpingtons were buff.

I am going to fill the water trays and see if I can get the temp up to where I want it. (didn't have water in). It is now about 90 deg, so I might be getting it right. Thanks for the info. I am going to the city tomorrow for an eye doctor appt, and will pick up a hygro at Wally-world while I am there. Haven't been to town since fall, so I need a few other things too.
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

March 2, 2008
11:43 PM

Post #4613922

see the link. feathersite has great accurate breed history. the UK Orps were black. MM is full of it, or they were referring to some buff in their breeding program [i.e., accidental].

i do wish somebody could tell me if the BAs would normally have barred feathers at 2 weeks of age, just something they grow outof?

i understand true Jersey Giants are hard to come by, thus hatcheries often substitute BAs. i can't understand sending sex links when BAs were ordered... think i'll make a phone call...
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

March 3, 2008
12:03 AM

Post #4614007

don't know why i didn't think of this sooner, i called the JG breeder i got ours from, he has experience with BAs, & BAs just DON'T get barred feathers. i have a home for the hens & a freezer for the roosters, except one my son thinks he is attached to.

i am told the sex link hens are good layers. i will be putting in a bad word for the hatchery in the Watchdog...
granny_goody
Luther, MI
(Zone 4b)

March 3, 2008
12:35 AM

Post #4614133

Well, in my case, it doesn't matter as I am not going after anything but egg layers and freezer meat after they get older. But, I would like to get what I paid for. DH says these are smaller than the others we had, so I might be adding to the flock with I can pick up at TSC, if I can get them cheap. Or, since I have had luck with people not wanting their chickens after they get them, might be able to get a few for free.

Some people get into chickens and then decide they are too messy of they don't have time to tend to them, or some other reason and I get a call asking if I want some. That happened 4 years ago and I ended up with Silver Laced Wyandottes, Isa Browns, Barred Rocks, and more RIRs. The only ones that were not youngsters were the Isa Browns. I think they bought started pullets and then both of them got sick and had to get rid of them. So, of course, I had room and took them.
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

March 3, 2008
12:40 AM

Post #4614150

lucky you!
granny_goody
Luther, MI
(Zone 4b)

March 3, 2008
12:52 AM

Post #4614193

Thanks, TF, I think so too. Since there haven't been live poultry sold in this area for the last 3 years, I haven't gotten any calls to "come get these d*** chickens". Of course this year they are selling them again, so will let you know if I get them again. I always have room for freebies. Saves me buying them.
saanansandy
Sue, RI
(Zone 6a)

March 3, 2008
12:26 PM

Post #4615905

Well, ended up going with ideal as meyers is out of a couple of breeds that I wanted. They are completely out of all silkies(any color) and no pekin ducks either. So I'm getting a mixed bag(so to speak!):
New Hampshire Red Pullet(4) Roosters(4), White Pekin duck Pullet(2) drake(1), Red Silkie Bantam st run(5), Red Sex link pullet(2), Black Sex link pullet(3), and Barred Rock rooster(2). They are being shipped on 3/26.
Gardener105, You said the Red Star and Black Star are terrible pluckers-is this with other birds or on themselves when preening?
Sue☺
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

March 3, 2008
3:10 PM

Post #4616487

aLL-rIGHT sUE!

NICE SELECTION... mostly as far as plucking, you can use a red heat lamp in the brooder to prevent that from starting, and make sure and use high protein chick starter too. It's a genetci thing, the desire to peck and the need for more protein in their diets. Yes, htey would be pecking other birds feathers... The most importatn thing is to prevent it, once it gets started, they can't break the habit.

So, you got about three and a half weeks to get ready fo rthem! Sorry for hijacking your thread, it was pertaining to sex links and i didn't know where else to post it LOL

It's nice that ideal is exing them for you, hope they do it right. I obviously did a crummy job myself ;-)
Catscan
Lodi
United States

March 3, 2008
3:13 PM

Post #4616497

I've heard that some of the production breeds have brittle feathers because they lose so much protein to egg production. That might lead to over-plucking...
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

March 3, 2008
3:17 PM

Post #4616512

makes sense...
gardener105
Bend, OR
(Zone 5a)

March 3, 2008
3:35 PM

Post #4616575

TF, l always use a red heat lamp and my Sex-links still started plucking the other birds. I always puchased a high protein medicated chick starter so l guess my chicks never read the rule book! LOL!
Susan
saanansandy
Sue, RI
(Zone 6a)

March 3, 2008
3:42 PM

Post #4616593

I have a couple of heat lamps but not the red(infared?)lights in them; I have clear heat lamp bulbs. Does it make much difference in which bulbs are used?
I've already gotten the shavings, feed and a couple of plastic totes to place them. Thought I should keep the ducklings and chicks separated-I have game starter crumbles for the ducklings and chick starter crumbles for the chicks. Boy this month is going to drag waiting for them to come!
gardener105
Bend, OR
(Zone 5a)

March 3, 2008
3:54 PM

Post #4616615

saanansandy, read TF's post above. That's why l posted about the heat lamp color.
I know what you mean about waiting. l thought l was going to get my new chicks the first part of Feb., but l still haven't gotten them. l'm waiting for another person to order them and she's taking her old sweet time at doing it. l think next time l will order them myself and order 25.
Susan
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

March 4, 2008
1:34 AM

Post #4619000

good idea to separate them. i regret picking up four ducklings from the feed store. much better to have momma raise some. but alas, our muscovies are all to closely related to let them set on their own eggs. so i guess i will have to re-think this.

you can either use a red bulb all the time, or teach them their bed time schedule by switching to red at night. they think the sun is down but can still see to eat and drink... about twelve hours each. but you will need two lamps, one with each kind of bulb, so you can warm the next one up before shutting off the current one. you don't want to try to swap those out, burn your fingers, and freeze the chicks [sound like i am speaking from exp?]

every week they will need less heat, so plan on being able to raise the heat lamps somehow...
granny_goody
Luther, MI
(Zone 4b)

March 4, 2008
1:45 AM

Post #4619054

TF, one thing that happened to me when we got chicks 4 years ago. We didn't have a heat lamp, so when we made the temp pen (in the garage) I actually used a 100 watt household bulb in a reflector. It work perfectly and did the same thing last year for the new ones. By keeping it about a foot above them and having them in a cardboard box with the side cut out, it must have been the right thing to do because they never huddled in a heap under it and also never left the center open while they stayed out of range. Of course, we had the woodstove going too, so it must have been the right temp for them. The only time we use heat lamps is in the winter in the henhouse. Our temps hit about 10 to 20 below zero every year, and that is the only source of heat they have then.
granny_goody
Luther, MI
(Zone 4b)

March 4, 2008
1:45 AM

Post #4619055

TF, one thing that happened to me when we got chicks 4 years ago. We didn't have a heat lamp, so when we made the temp pen (in the garage) I actually used a 100 watt household bulb in a reflector. It work perfectly and did the same thing last year for the new ones. By keeping it about a foot above them and having them in a cardboard box with the side cut out, it must have been the right thing to do because they never huddled in a heap under it and also never left the center open while they stayed out of range. Of course, we had the woodstove going too, so it must have been the right temp for them. The only time we use heat lamps is in the winter in the henhouse. Our temps hit about 10 to 20 below zero every year, and that is the only source of heat they have then.
Patchouli78
Foley, MO

March 4, 2008
3:22 AM

Post #4619618

Hey, there's an echo in here! ; )
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

March 4, 2008
3:32 AM

Post #4619677

LOL.

yep, that works too. just make sure it doesn't get dusty in there, since you limit air circulation when you cover to retain heat.
granny_goody
Luther, MI
(Zone 4b)

March 4, 2008
4:27 AM

Post #4619932

Yep, there surely is an echo in here since I only posted that once.

TF, the box wasn't covered. It sets inside the mini pen we use for a starter pen until they get big enough to take outside into their other run till they get used to the other chix and them they run together.
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

March 4, 2008
4:29 AM

Post #4619939

oh. i covered mine for a while to keep them warm [tall furniture boxes] that's what it sounded like you were describing. but with all that goes on in this house, when i get on DG, i am generally speed reading between interruptions LOL
TamaraFaye
Fritch, TX
(Zone 6b)

August 14, 2008
5:19 PM

Post #5413784

this thread has info on sexing by color, good to re-read...

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