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Another Plant ID

Marietta, GA

Please help with this JM also.

Thumbnail by jgc31746
Marietta, GA

Here is a close pu of the leaves,

Thumbnail by jgc31746
Springfield, IL(Zone 6a)

Both very nice trees...good bright spring coloration..well taken care of.. But if you read a bit of these threads you will find it will be impossible to know for sure unless your tree is really unusual ...and even then no way to be absolutly sure. Many here can guess and get close but like everyhing else in life except horse shoes and hand grenades ... that really don't count.. David

Walhalla, SC

This is true. If I spent an entire season with it I could probably give you a pretty good answer to about 95% certainty...and maybe a little more if I had it side by side with my collection. I can tell you that if I had to guess based on your location, the size, and the look of the tree...I would say it is a tamukeyama grafted about 3 ft high. But there are a good 10 or 12 different cultivars in that class that I can't tell apart unless I spend quite a bit of time with them.

Marietta, GA

Thank you both for your input. The tree was planted three years ago and has grown about 30% since. It is now about 6ft. tall. I was hoping to identify it so that I could predict its maximum height. I have several locations in my rear yard that I would like to plant more JMs but max height is a concern. When I visit local nurseries, the tags on the JMs simply say "laceleaf" or something similar; not much help.

Walhalla, SC

That is not very helpful, but generally if you look for dissectums that are not staked very high they will remain a bit lower. If you can get your hands on a Red dragon, orangeola, or a real crimson queen that are fairly low to start you shouldn't have too much trouble. Red dragon seems to be a slower grower that holds it's color very well particularly in part shade. Orangeola grows faster but the habit is more strongly weeping so it remains a bit lower. Crimson queen would be a bit bigger but easier to find, you definetely should start low with this one. Note that many dissectums are mislabeled and if the variety is important I would search out the most respectable nursery around.

It is important to keep in mind that this tree was likely grafted at about 3 foot high, so if it hadn't been it would be about half that height. I have seen low grafted tamukeyama about 20 years old that was only 5 feet tall but about 12 ft wide.

Marietta, GA

Thanks Matt. On a recent trip to my local nursery (Pike's) I spotted a JM that looked like mine only smaller. The tag said "Tamukeyama" so I took a leaf home to compare. The leaves are identical so I believe you nailed the ID. The nursery has a couple of Crimson Queens which were nice but very small. I'll stay on the lookout for an Orangeola. Thanks again for your help and suggestions.

Springfield, IL(Zone 6a)

As stated before Matts "guess" is just that ... you can never know for sure ...Although it is probably a tamu the color is suspect IMHO ... you could never graft and sell it or give it to anyone else to do so as that specific cultivar cause you do not know 100% that that is what you have... but if you want to tell folks it is a Tamu or consider it as such yourself well thats obviously ok ...David

Walhalla, SC

I'm curious David what color does your tamukeyama leaf out? I have seen them both a color like this and a darker burgundy color in spring, and I suspect there could be some mislabeling going on. However, I always notice some of the distinct spiky leaves on both forms, which makes me wonder if it is sunlight and growing conditions.

Springfield, IL(Zone 6a)

Matt..Mine is much darker ..but you may be right ..I suspect if it is under shade cloth that may be so.. shade cloth really fools with natural color of JM's and would mimic a shady condition...and many nurserys use a pretty high % cloth.( one reason if you buy from mail order in late spring or summer or you know itr was under shade cloth your tree likely will have come from under shade cloth and must be slowly acclimated to the sun or it will burn it to bits always best to ask the seller whether under SC or not)..if outside under sunlight it should be darker IMHO and her photo is a spring one so I suspect even if it is getting some shade ...this time of year it likely gets more sun ( overhanging trees arn't fully out) then in summer in that location it would get alot of shade which is what you want. I am not an expert on any of this but those are my somwhat experienced thoughts ... the color just looks too light to me.David

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