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Japanese Maples: Mulberry or Maple?

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sweetpeadragon
Tempe, AZ
(Zone 9a)

May 1, 2008
4:52 PM

Post #4892188

We transplanted a tree that sprouted "volunteer" in our flower bed thinking it was a bigleaf maple. After it put on leaves in February it began to put on fruit. The leaves look like maple but the berries look like mulberries. Can anyone identify this for us?

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Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 1, 2008
7:27 PM

Post #4892733

Mulberry ..one of the worst treres on earth period IMHO ... It may be ok in your area ...but best to check your local extension service ...if they "do" spread you'd best to get rid of that devil tree NOW before your whole neighborhood hates you... ..Ok here's the scoop on this crapola tree..#1 latest spring tree to come out first to loose its leaves and no spring or fall color ugly trees #2 birds can spread their seeds for miles ..one tree begets thousands , not neighbor friendly. #3 can grow at least hear 10 feet a year and within two years roots can be 6 feet deep ... it is a gangly twiggy mess in 5-10 years #4 almost impossible to kill cut it off and 16 new sprouts come out growing 6 feet in one year ... roundup won't touch it you must use 2-4D ( nasty stuff agent orange type) to kill it after fresh cutting it ...if you dig it you will need to get down 6=12 feet and if you leave one root it will regrow ...so the best method is tordone 2-4-D. This all being said it "may be differnt in your area so consult the extension service ... and it may be some sort of hybred that is ok I don't know if they have developed a mulberry that is tolerabble ( people friendly) or not. But thems the facts they are they are not a tree for anyone who is not totally insane or brain dead should plant or keep( if they "inherit" it from some nitwit) .If this sounds like a peeved post it is ...I have had to deal with these devil trees for years and my blood boils just thinking about them!!!!David
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 2, 2008
2:42 PM

Post #4896252

Oh for those that are unfamiliar with tordone 2 4 D it CANNOT be used next to other rooted trees or plants without danger of killing or damaging them ...it goes to the trees roots and if another trees roots is touching the roots of the tree being tordoned it can cause damage...it is rare to happen but possible and unfotunately trash trees most often spring up in gardens near other plants border areas or basically non mowed areas ;>). Always best to pull them out right away...if you get them within a month of sprouting when they are about a foot or so tall and skinny you can, if the soil is not rock hard, pull them out with a little effort ...their roots will only be about 12-15" deep by then.believe it or not with a mulberry those measurements are no exageration at least in my area ...the same goes for the silver maple another trash tree...not quite as bad but they don't call their seeds heleocopters for nothin' ... but that is is whole nuther story... David
digger9083
Dahlonega, GA

May 6, 2008
5:08 PM

Post #4914550

myers, two sides to every coin,tempe az is hot,hot,hot.mulberry is a long lived tree that in time, will give kids a great place to hang out in it's branches, feed the bird population, wonderful wide shade for a break from the hot sun.also a good shady area to plant shade loving plants.can eat fresh, or make jelly, compotes, pie or a hundred other uses for fruit.also comes in a fruitless version, for those that don't want the fruit mess under the tree.grandpa had one about 15' from his dug well, no problem with roots on it . my cousin ,we were both about seven ,and me, couldn't reach around it with hands joined . it was about 55 yrs old when my dad cut it down.really pissed off the aunts and uncles. don't remember any other mulberries in the neighborhood ever showing up.my mother-in-law had one out her kitchen window.no air conditioner,lord,would have been pure hell to try to cook in that kitchen on the west side of house without the shade. that was henrietta, tex, grandpa lived in abilene, tex.but you are just like me, i'm rabid against mimosa trees,any one that brings one into the neighborhood should be put under water torture. now watch, everybody will be on my case about the virtues of mimosa trees . sorry,and you are so right about silver leaf maples. that tree will make jungles,worse than briers , at least you can dig them up sally
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 6, 2008
5:56 PM

Post #4914748

I have heard about the Mimosa problem they rarly overwinter here so can not spread ...I loved mulberries as a child ... I ate thenm graded them for size and sweetness and used them for shade resting at our farm ...needless to say EVERY square inch of that farm that isn't tilled has a mulberry problem every dranage area every "crick" every fence row evey stinking non tilled areas ... Multiflora rose is another horrendous plant that the county extension service in the late 50's and 60's told farmers to plant as wildlife supporters ...now they consider it noxious . Fond memories aside there is NO benifit for any tree that spreads everywhere...I guess it is posible it didn't spread down their but I think your mind may have a revisionist twist to it good memories are hard to change... If I had grown up and never revisited my farm I would likely say the same thing that these trees are one of my fond memories ...but that is not the case...Everything I said was the honest truth... IF they spread in your area ( mimosa's don't here!!)... aside from that they are one ugly fast growing tree that need constant trimming and whose only "possible" good point is the tasty berries...which coincidentally are their biggest downfall.. I assume a tree w/o color spring and fall and late to come out ( my neighbors still are just budded) and first to loose leaves, easily breaking ground hugging branches that nothing can live under ... that even fire wood folks don't want...may be nirvana to some ...to each his or her own ;>) I might add Silver maples are bad but they don't spread the same ...My fater planted several in our yard in the early 50's for fast shadealong with the multiflora rose . We never had a spreading problem with the silver maples...but the heleo seeds unlike the mulberry berries only travel in yards not miles since our yard was mowed and was sorounded by multiflora roses and all right beyond that.was tilled they didn't spread ...the differnce is the birds and their "byproduct" of which can travel miles and miles and spread everywhere the bird flies and eliminates.If said birds could swallow and eat the silve maple wing seeds the same would happen... thankfully that is not the case ...the silver maple problem is localized and is only bad cause so many unknowing folks plant them for , as my father did, fast shade ...with the intention of eventually cutting them down as the "good " trees grow up . This rarely if ever happens or if it does is BIG $$$ job on a 10-15 year old 50-60 ft tall with 4 foot trunk tree often tiomes planted too close to structures making removal difficult at best!! . David

This message was edited May 6, 2008 1:12 PM
digger9083
Dahlonega, GA

May 6, 2008
7:36 PM

Post #4915146

actually, grandpas place is still in the family and a brother and countless cousins live in abilene . i visit there often. i've only been in georgia 15 years.i spend 1/4 of my life in tex , thats home.no branches close to the ground, we had a sawhorse that gave us access.maybe where you are the trees are rampart , like the mimosas are in southern arkansas and parts of texas .all i'm saying,is , i lived in chandler az . and any large leafed tree that can live 60/75 years is welcome for shade. tempe is only up the road 10 miles.but this forum is on maples, and we are way off topic.everything you have posted so far that i've seen, is so informative ,just think given where she is that the other side of the coin might be helpful to her sally
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 7, 2008
8:10 PM

Post #4920341

Yes you are right we are way off subject but noxious and enviormentally unsound trees are a good subject to enterject into a forum where 'plantings' are an important in the world of JM's and companion plants ...shading trees etc.

I never said it was a definite that the original poster should or shouldn't do anything one way or another ...I pointed out the facts as i have painfully learned them and passed them on with the caviat that they may not spread in her area and to talk to her extension service before keeping this potentially problem tree... I persoanlly doubt that it will NOT spread either at their location or yours but that is a possibility just as the mimosa does not spread here ..david
digger9083
Dahlonega, GA

May 7, 2008
9:40 PM

Post #4920788

type them in, check them out .there are three main types ,and several cultivors. the ones you have are probably crapola if they are spindley.
bubba1
Woodward, OK
(Zone 6a)

May 24, 2008
5:05 PM

Post #4997451

myersphcf-

Just read your thread regarding mulberry trees. Answers a lot for me. There has been a tree coming up for years in the neighbor's chain link fence. I am the only person who has tried to kill it. Every year I cut all the branches off it. I have tried to cut it down, but the trunk is too big and the chain link fence is in it. I have put vine and stump killer on it. It still comes back. I was going to try roundup this year, but you've dashed my hopes with that. I had a co-worker tell me to cut several holes in it and put rock salt in it. Think that will work? I can't use that stuff you were talking about, 'cause I have shrubs planted along the fence line in front of it. What next?
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 24, 2008
9:05 PM

Post #4998173

without upsetting any mulberry lovers i will try to answer your question.. I really don't know about salt..sounds like an old geezers tale but some of those do work ... I would though try roundup although it is unlikely to work especially on an older tree that has been coming back for several years it has not worked for me...that root system will be big. I really think your only hope is tordone and just hope it doesn't effect the bushes ...it may not the roots of the Mulberry must actually touch the bush roots to cause damage and probably in more than one place ...it does not travel from stump to root to soil just to roots ...and if it does replace them next summer ...there shouldn't be any residual effect once the mulberry is dead .. You can always check with your local extennsion service they may know of some other less "traveling" herbicide that will work...that I am unaware of ...I am NOT a herbicidologist ;>) and hate using it another reason I hate these trees.I spent this afternoon using my new extracting tools taking 10-12 foot tall two year trees out ...it was work but it DID work the tap root were 3-4 feet deep...Unfortunatly it is much too late for the extracting tools for you it will just break off one of the dozens of new trunks one at a time ...useless.. As I look out on my yard green and real opurdy I see the neighbors mulberry tree bearly starting to leaf out in all its glory... broken branches hanging down all the way to the ground from ice and wind and know I will be using my extratigator for many years to come...There may be varieties that are OK but I doubt it and there are male trees that don't have berries .(..my mother still has one ...it is stikll a crappy tree but doesn't spread and if she were to cut it down the stump would have to be immediately tordoned!!)but the issues of this tree are not limited to one particular evil... Good luck if you do find a less "spreading herbicide that works let me know. David

This message was edited May 24, 2008 4:07 PM
bubba1
Woodward, OK
(Zone 6a)

May 25, 2008
12:03 AM

Post #4998676

Can you get that stuff at Wal-Mart? Regarding your neighbors tree. Have you thought of sneaking over there about 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning and spraying it? You'll have to have a real poker face the next day, though.
snapple45
Holland, OH
(Zone 5b)

May 25, 2008
12:06 AM

Post #4998686

Look here.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/56629/
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 25, 2008
12:56 AM

Post #4998817

Bubba well the tree is 30+ feet tall and much wider... he'd be more than happy to let me cut it down and treat the stump...but that is ALOT of work and $$ tree services charge an arm and a leg for such trees cause the wood is not great fire wood and has to be hauled away... he could give a darn his yard consists of silver maples chinese elms sycamores and mulberries most are in bad shape and dieing ...not one tree in his yard is worth keeping...two have already taken out my fence and damaged my out building roof ..I made him pay the deductable it took him 4 months and three checks to pay the 500$... As I always say the less yiou have to do with your neighbors the better.I am VERY happy with both the extractagator and weed wrench ...as long as I stay on top of thindgs each spring I think my silver maple and mulberry problems will be solved ...works great on silver maples too... and from the look of the bizzillion seeds those SM gave up thjis year I will have alot of wrenching to do soon ...my yard was brown with them .David Snap yes that is one of the species it's hard to know what is what since they cross polinate there are actually 5+ varieties ... choose your poison takes your chances ;>)
bubba1
Woodward, OK
(Zone 6a)

May 25, 2008
2:33 AM

Post #4999213

Well. The only one of those I would recognize are the elms or the mulberries. Elms are nasty. And the elm bugs are worse. They are so bad. They get in your house if you are not careful.
digger9083
Dahlonega, GA

May 25, 2008
11:24 AM

Post #5000051

sympathy chuckle ! myers, i see where your coming from , and you really hit it on the head with the neighbors. sally
john_hosie
Gaithersburg, MD
(Zone 6b)

May 25, 2008
4:51 PM

Post #5001101

This is a very informative thread - regarding the Mulberry. I've had it. About ten years ago I had one coming up in one corner of the garden near a pear tree we used to have. I thought the foliage was interesting. I'd never seen one before. So I let it grow.

Mistake.

First came extra shoots from the base. Next came the berries. Finally, it was obvious that it was starting to threaten the nearby Crimson Queen. So I cut it down and ground down the stump.

Mistake.

Now I have dozens of them coming up from the roots all over the place. I won't do chemicals to kill it because this area is too close to a lot of herbs and my tomato and pepper plants. So I'm left to policing the area and digging out the sprouts that come up. As a result, I've lost trumpet lilies and tiger lilies. Iris and daylilies have had their flowering and growing seasons upset. I've had to move Lambs Ears. I've destroyed chile peppers. Luckily, they get the message not to grow in the lawn by being continuously cut down by the mower.

They are indeed the Devil's Spawn. Best to yank them out as fast as you can.
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 25, 2008
5:11 PM

Post #5001206

One thing you might try which will not work for bubba is buying some runbber roofing material or pond rubber and completly covering the area after you cut it down to the ground ...it may just spead out around it..but the idea is to NOT give it any light and it will eventually die... I tried lanscape fabric but it didn't work I didn't put enough down though ...weigh it rubber down with blocks stones or whatever ...if you can cover it sufficiently for a long enough time I think that may work ...but in a fence row you are up the creek . Yes you are right yards are basically immune to muberries but if they did come up you could hebicide them and only loose a bit of grass ...the problem is they sprout in fence rows and perrenial areas ..where herbicides are dicey.cause of other bushes trees etc.. evil evil trees.David

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