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Passifloras: Lady Margaret x caerulea: has anyone grown one?

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LouisianaMark
Baton Rouge, LA

May 3, 2008
10:11 PM

Post #4902321

Hello all,

Right now the only passies I have blooming are Lady Margaret and caerulea. I have been cross pollinating both, and now have several fruits on the Lady Margaret. I was wondering if anyone has ever grown out any seeds from this cross (Lady Margaret x caerulea)? Thanks!

Mark
mikulas
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 8a)

May 5, 2008
12:33 PM

Post #4908620

Mark,
Henk Wouters has tried that cross, and although he got some blooms he had a lot of problems with bud drop -- I believe he was going to cross the hybrid back with one of the parents to see if that helped. Just look for the "My hybrids" link on his website (www.passiflora.se) -- there should be a picture on that page.
Keep us the loop on how the seedlings turn out!
~Nicholas
LouisianaMark
Baton Rouge, LA

May 5, 2008
11:59 PM

Post #4911490

Hi Nicholas,

Thanks for the link! Henk sure does create some nice hybrids! The LM x caerulea isn't exactly a show stopper, but I now have 5 fruits from this cross, so hopefully I can grow out a good variety of this hybrid. And I still don't have anything else to pollinate the Lady Margaret with--my incarnatas don't even have buds yet.

Mark
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

May 6, 2008
1:25 AM

Post #4911848

Mark i have a caerulea XLady Margaret Cross Paul
LouisianaMark
Baton Rouge, LA

May 6, 2008
5:16 AM

Post #4913028

Paul,

Has it flowered yet?
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

May 6, 2008
12:17 PM

Post #4913432

no not yet ill post pics when it does
Hal_
Whites Creek, TN
(Zone 6b)

May 8, 2008
7:56 PM

Post #4924978

I have some hybrids from Lady Margaret x incarnata. Most of the seedlings were weak or deformed, but a couple were vigorous. Both produced one bloom late last year. The first one had the bloom open up, but it had no androgynophore, just petals and sepals. The other one did not open, but I pried it open and pollinated it and it set a fruit that got pretty big, then dropped off after about 3 weeks. Both had pink flowers. I also have a LM x P. edulis 'McCain' that started to flower late last year, but the small buds fell off and it stopped for the season as the days got too short. Hopefully, these will all bloom better this year, as they were just in their first year from seed last year.

I think you could get some interesting hybrids from LM, but you will need to grow large numbers of seedlings to get a few good ones. The biggest problem is it does not produce many seeds.
LouisianaMark
Baton Rouge, LA

May 9, 2008
3:55 AM

Post #4927209

Thanks for the info Hal. I was really just pollinating the LM cause I had nothing else to do the caerulea pollen. I didn't expect any fruits. My LM is a third year plant that did not set any fruit last year. The LM is a nice hybrid in its own right: very vigorous, and really puts out a lot of blooms once it gets going. So it is hard to think of how it might be improved by further hybridization. I may try to pollinate it with nephrodes once my nephrodes starts blooming. And if I can ever get some loefgreni seeds to sprout, that would be an interesting cross too.

Mark
mikulas
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 8a)

May 9, 2008
8:34 PM

Post #4929889

Hal,
Did you try your LM x incarnata cross with more than one variety of incarnata? I'm wondering if that would have an effect on your success rates. Henk Wouters pointed out once (if I remember right) that the species edmundoi wouldn't make a hybrid, until someone (Maurizio Vecchia?) tried using a different strain, and voila! successful cross.

Just a thought.
~Nicholas
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

May 9, 2008
8:36 PM

Post #4929901

Dont Forget that Sub Species wont Cross With other Subecies paul
mikulas
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 8a)

May 11, 2008
4:26 PM

Post #4936736

Could you clarify that, Paul? Do you mean that incarnata alba won't cross with regular incarnata? While it might be the case that some varieties of a species won't cross readily with the other varieties, I can't see how that kind of intra-species incompatibility would be a wide-spread phenomenon...
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

May 11, 2008
5:39 PM

Post #4937093

Here read this http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/1079/
mikulas
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 8a)

May 12, 2008
8:18 PM

Post #4941762

Ah, thanks for the link, Paul. I think that Mr. Segalen just got his terms confused -- Decaloba and Tacsonia aren't species --or even sub-species-- but rather higher divisions within the genus Passiflora -- the proper term escapes me (sections? supersections?), but Decaloba and Tacsonia are something akin to sub-genera, not sub-species.

With that in mind, you are right -- you can't cross a Decaloba with a Tacsonia or with a Passiflora (that we know of); only a few species-to-species hybrids are possible across the Tacsonia ~ Passiflora divide (Passiflora being a sub-section of the genus Passiflora); and I don't know anything about crosses with plants from the other groupings Deidamioides and Astrophea.

In theory Hal could try to cross his 'Lady Margaret' with another variety of incarnata; the different varieties of incarnata should be able to hybridize with each other without too much trouble, and using a different variety of incarnata could change success rates for the better. But that's just my speculation -- with Passiflora, you never know till you try...
phicks
Lakeland, FL
(Zone 9b)

May 12, 2008
9:15 PM

Post #4941960

Lady Margret Crosses with P. Miniata preaty easy
Hal_
Whites Creek, TN
(Zone 6b)

May 13, 2008
8:49 PM

Post #4946481

I used several different incarnatas, which grow wild all over my property. Some never set fruit, while others worked more often, maybe 1 in 3 attempts would produce a fruit. This year, I will place my LM out near the pasture in the ground, and let the bees cross it with pollen from incarnatas from all over the area.

Hal

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