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Japanese Maples: Good Old Viridis

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snapple45
Holland, OH
(Zone 5b)

May 13, 2008
2:51 PM

Post #4945030

According to Vertrees " The term 'vridis' has come to mean any form of green dissectum..." It doesn't really matter what you call it. The beauty in the garden is what's important. Anybody else out there? Show em' if you got em'.

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doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

May 14, 2008
2:11 AM

Post #4948052

What a beautiful garden snapple. Perhaps Germaine's Gyration would qualify as a 'viridis'?
snapple45
Holland, OH
(Zone 5b)

May 14, 2008
3:00 AM

Post #4948288

Thank You! I've never seen a Germaine's Gyration. It sounds really nice. I suppose the difference between it and Viridis would be in the twisted branches.
doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

May 14, 2008
3:03 AM

Post #4948297

Oops, forgot to post the photo.

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snapple45
Holland, OH
(Zone 5b)

May 14, 2008
5:28 PM

Post #4950536

Ooooooooooo. THAT'S nice. I love the statue. The similiarities between the common old Viridis and Germaines' Gyration are strong.
joycet
Franklin, OH
(Zone 6a)

May 15, 2008
9:07 PM

Post #4956376

I LOVE this tree. Think it's too big to dig up and move next door with me?

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doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

May 15, 2008
9:25 PM

Post #4956438

It looks like a pretty old tree. Has it been in it's spot long? You can always try moving it but have to risk losing it all together. Part of the problem will be to get the root ball out with the paving going under the canopy. I'm not sure how you would dig it out. It doesn't look real promising.
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 15, 2008
9:37 PM

Post #4956473

I agree with Doss looks like trouble it was probably perfect for that area awhile back but as the saying goes hindsite is always 20-20 it is virtually impossible at least fo me not to plant trees in wrong areas occasionally ...of course if it stays ther it can be kept trimmed it is only in the "wrong area" cause it will need constant trimming each year so it fits then area and looks proportional to it and likely can't ever be moved or do so without severe damage to tree and /or sorounding area... those green Disssectums and many red ones as well get big really big with time, it is VERY hard to visualise when they are planted as youngins. David
joycet
Franklin, OH
(Zone 6a)

May 15, 2008
9:50 PM

Post #4956500

I was afraid you all were going to say that. We had already decided that if we moved it, it would have to be all done by hand, and very carefully. It has been there for 3 years now, but it was a decent size tree when I planted it. It has really widened since then. It said it would only grow 10 to 12 feet, but it didn't say anything about width!

If we decide to sell this house, I may try it any way. I love that tree!
doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

May 15, 2008
11:26 PM

Post #4956888

Yep, mounding dissectums very often get far more wide than tall. It's not hard to keep them short but it takes quite a bit of work to keep them narrower. I'm the original 'put a tree in too small a space' person so I understand the dilemma. I do the same thing with hostas.
largosmom
Newport News, VA
(Zone 7b)

May 16, 2008
12:31 AM

Post #4957219

If you are more willing to lose it than to visit it when you move next door, then I say go for it. Otherwise, why not offer to keep it pruned for your new neighbor and that way you can visit and/or make a new friend!

Laura
joycet
Franklin, OH
(Zone 6a)

May 16, 2008
12:20 PM

Post #4958957

I already plan to do that since I'm leaving some other JMs and a pond and waterfall! I haven't really decided what to do yet. I would hate to kill it, and I hate to leave it behind. I just don't know which I hate more...
snapple45
Holland, OH
(Zone 5b)

May 16, 2008
12:56 PM

Post #4959071

Are you leaving fish?
joycet
Franklin, OH
(Zone 6a)

May 16, 2008
1:59 PM

Post #4959333

I have 6 small koi that were new last year. I lost all my koi in the winter last year. Think I had too many and my heater quit. So my neighbor has a pond and she's spoken for a couple. I will probably leave the rest there so that when I come to visit I can see them.
snapple45
Holland, OH
(Zone 5b)

May 16, 2008
3:01 PM

Post #4959567

I'd have a real tough time leaving my fish. But, I've had most of them going on 7 years now. From what I've read in the Water Gardens Forum there was quite of bit of winter kill to koi around various parts of the country last winter. You were not alone.
joycet
Franklin, OH
(Zone 6a)

May 16, 2008
4:21 PM

Post #4960011

I know...didn't make it any easier to accept though... :o(
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 16, 2008
8:55 PM

Post #4961120

I just live with the fact that my fish ( regular gold fish) will only get so big and die there seems to be an endless supply of new ones each year in all three of my ponds ...same with frogs ...one bad winter and they are gone but always lots of tad poles and new ones coming on /// but the leapard frog population is in decline as a result of eco havoc and large bull frogs that pray on leopards ...I see it as a circle... I've always got plenty of something in my ponds ... I am NOT a big Koi fan though too much work protecting plants and when they get big they remind me of swimming pigs oinking burping slurping and gobbling everything in site..if you go down to the feeding area at the botanical gardens in St. Louis it will sour you on Koi for life ...they are beautiful but one look down there and it is sickening like a giant pig wallow!! A few in a pond is probably a good thing cause they are pretty and interesting to have in small doses ..IMHO ...david
doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

May 16, 2008
10:32 PM

Post #4961557

Gee David! Another strong opinion, humble though it might be. I'll never look at koi quite the same I think.
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 16, 2008
11:45 PM

Post #4961959

Doss i always wanted them cause they are cool but they are hard on plants and I have lots of lotus and lillys... you basically have to cage off plants with koi...As I said a few in a pond is nice ...but after seeing the feeding station in the botaninical gardens it really turned me off...they get HUGH down there.some seemed like 2 feet long ...the pond they are in is probably several acres in the Japanese garden area ...kids love to feed them oinking and all ;>) they have a 25 cent dispening food machine down there...it truly was gross to me ...but as i said that is my opinion and having a few would not give the same "feed lot" effect.David
snapple45
Holland, OH
(Zone 5b)

May 17, 2008
1:06 AM

Post #4962288

My koi, (9 of them) are, with one exception, all over 18" - not including the tail. Three are approaching 24". They are beauties in my considered opinion. I also manage both hardy and tropical water lilys as well as lotus quite nicely. I won't be doing lotus this year Ibecause I'm hooked on tropicals and running out of room. I manage to keep the koi from uprooting the plants by fastening (with wire ties) flexible plastic garden fencing over the tops of the pots. The fencing has 1" sq. holes through which the plants easily grow. The koi cant get at the potting soil/clay. They will nibble on the plants but don't really seem to cause enough damage to cause the plants a set back. The pic is of a lotus just breaking dormancy last April in a 24" tub.

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snapple45
Holland, OH
(Zone 5b)

May 17, 2008
1:10 AM

Post #4962312

Lotus "Mrs. Perry D. Slocum" and koi - 2007.

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doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

May 17, 2008
2:20 AM

Post #4962622

What a nice clean pond you have snapple. I'm totally impressed!
joycet
Franklin, OH
(Zone 6a)

May 17, 2008
12:19 PM

Post #4963781

How big is your pond? Do you have only koi, or goldfish, too? Sorry, know I'm totally off topic!
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 17, 2008
1:27 PM

Post #4964025

Not to stay off subject but Mrs. Perry D. Slocum is the best all around lotus IMHO at least for my area north...although it does get really big at least for me ... I have tried several differnt types and for sun part shade hot summers cold winters this Lotus is one I always recommend ... a color changing redish pink to light pink to whitish if I remember from past ...I think it is the only one I have left in two of my ponds... but as I said it takes alot of room if left alone although I guess you could keep it small(er) by mid to late summer my pond is almost completly covered with giant lotus leaves and flowers david
snapple45
Holland, OH
(Zone 5b)

May 17, 2008
1:58 PM

Post #4964101

The pond is 2400 gal. The filter system is Savio. I try to pay attention to water quality and everything else seems to take care of itself. And myersphcf that's the reason I'm not doing Lotus this year. Those great big leaves are great big sails in the wind. When Lotus roots are confined to the tub instead of rooting in the pond bottom ( heaven forbid) the whole contraption blows over. I got tired of getting into the water and righting the tub every time we had a 5 mph breeze. My DH engineered a handle on the tub with a rope so that I could maunever it without getting wet and what did I do? Lost my balance and slid in! It was hysterical.

So no Lotus this year. It's a big tub ( it used 50 lbs of kitty littler) so this spring I repotted a hardy water liliy 'Colorado' in it and I know I wont be falling in again. And a tub that big should hold the water lily for an extra year. I hope.

If I grow a Lotus in the future it will be Chawan Basu - much more managable in size for my size pond.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/72600/

joycet
Franklin, OH
(Zone 6a)

May 17, 2008
6:18 PM

Post #4964959

I haven't had much luck with lotus, but I got another last year and I see that it is pushing new leaves up, even though, I haven't raised anything off the bottom of the pond yet.

Snapple, if a pond owner who's had a pond for a while tells you they haven't fallen in at one time or another,...they'll lie about other things too!

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Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 17, 2008
6:59 PM

Post #4965090

Actually I have never fallen in ...my dog has and reacoons ...but I have waded in to work on them with waders on. My lotus are somewhat rooted in the bottom.but easy to remove..I have more natural ponds ...read dirty.I made the mistake of doing lillies ...the opposite of you ... I find they grow so fast they push the dirt right out of the pots one reason I have dirty ponds within one year the lilly tubers for me are about 15lbs each and 2-2.5 ft long and 8-10 thick growing totally out of the pots .within two years there is no dirt in the pots but plenty on the bottom of the pond ;>).. I don't have the energy to repot every year and divide them ...I have just thrown most out and let the others root in the bottom...So as you see I am NOT a big lilly fan although i love them from afar ...My lotus are much less messy and NOT dirt pushers although they need to be trimed about every year of long tuber stems out of the pots ...a much easier process mine have been in the ponds for about12 years with NO maintemance..other than that occasional "leg(s)" trimming david

This message was edited May 17, 2008 2:03 PM
snapple45
Holland, OH
(Zone 5b)

May 17, 2008
9:33 PM

Post #4965670

Lovely pond setting joycet. Unless you adopt myersphcf's low maintenance method - neglect? ;>) lotus can be a lot of fuss. I repot all water plants when the tubers warp and distort the pot until it is unrecongizable. About every other year, maybe two cause I use really big pots.
joycet
Franklin, OH
(Zone 6a)

May 17, 2008
10:31 PM

Post #4965861

Yes, I do the same thing with my lillies. I have a Claude Aikens (?) that has slipped the pot both years before I could get in and bring them back to the top and settles in to the stuff on the bottom. It spreads and takes over, but OH, the blooms are fabulous when they're on the bottom of the pond.
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 17, 2008
11:51 PM

Post #4966200

I would say not so much neglect as laziness and other priorities ...Ponds are alot of work ...I designed , dug by hand, and built all of my ponds years ago ...when i had more time to mess with them .and I was more into them.I didn't have 240 Jm's to care for then or a grafting addition. it isn't just the plants it's tree leaves wind blown junk and the knowledge when I do clean them I will likely loose alot of tads frogs fish etc unless i want to spend the time with white glove service.If I was to do it over again I would dig 'em 6-8 ft deep put the liner in plant right up to the edge of the flagstone and let them go naturally no pumps no watwerfalls no uv and bio filters of course I wouldn't dig em anywhere near trees but have some afternoon shade nearby ...like JM's like..david
snapple45
Holland, OH
(Zone 5b)

May 18, 2008
12:36 AM

Post #4966386

Oh the "If only I had it to do over again". syndrome. Same here. It's what you learn after you know it all. I'd go for 10,000 gal., bead filters and I'd go 5' deep instead of the 3-1/2. Oh well.
Davidsan
Springfield, IL
(Zone 6a)

May 18, 2008
3:26 PM

Post #4968586

yes and the bigger the lack of knowledge and expense the more galling it is...But thats life a learning experience ...some folks study stuff to death and NEVER do a bleeping thing since they can't make up their minds and don't want to buy or do the "wrong" thing ...to me that is more galling ...learning from failure or learning how you could have done something differntly as in our situations at least you did something amd had a good experience doing it and truly know the best or I should say better way to "redo" it for "you" and although it may not be perfect at least you have enjoyed it even if you fall in a few times ;>) David

This message was edited May 18, 2008 10:28 AM
joycet
Franklin, OH
(Zone 6a)

May 3, 2009
12:37 PM

Post #6496357

Well, the decision I couldn't make about moving my veridis was made for me. The person that moved in didn't want it. So last Fall, it made it's trek. It was out of the ground about 15 minutes. It lost a very few little limbs over the winter. I am so thankful it survived!

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HoosierGreen
Danville, IN

May 3, 2009
10:45 PM

Post #6498824

Yeah! Good for you. I just came upon this thread, or I would have told you last year to go ahead and move it. I had to move a red cutleaf a few years ago, in the middle of the summer no less. I about fainted when most of the topsoil fell off. Well, it survived just fine. I swear it didn't even look like it wilted. Plants are tough, and want to live. Lucky for us!
joycet
Franklin, OH
(Zone 6a)

May 4, 2009
10:57 AM

Post #6501017

Thanks! I think you're right. Turns out the lady wasn't thrilled with any JMs so I moved two more big ones. A Crimson Queen and a Ukigumo. I swear this is the best year for the Ukigumo and they didn't get moved until early this year.
PamelaQ
Navarre, FL
(Zone 8b)

May 4, 2009
12:25 PM

Post #6501296

Gorgeous little tree. I'm glad it is with someone that cares about it. I just love 'Happy Endings!! Yeah...
Pam
doss
Stanford, CA
(Zone 9b)

May 4, 2009
10:03 PM

Post #6504088

Lucky you to get three lovely trees. It's great that JM's transplant so well isn't it?
joycet
Franklin, OH
(Zone 6a)

May 4, 2009
10:32 PM

Post #6504224

Yes. I'm so thankful!!
wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

May 5, 2009
8:40 PM

Post #6508722

i transpalnted one a few feet so the oil man would not destroy it with the hose early this spring - other than being a tad slower leafing out it has been fine.

getting three nice trees is a great! esecially an ugi
snapple45
Holland, OH
(Zone 5b)

May 6, 2009
6:41 PM

Post #6513188

I mostly lost my Viridis to -17. It's dead from about 18" on up. Looks terrible. Huge bummer. It was in a very protected spot. I've ordered hardier A. palmatum dissectums from Davidsan's but they havn't arrived yet. I also, mostly, lost a Sekimori.
joycet
Franklin, OH
(Zone 6a)

May 6, 2009
6:46 PM

Post #6513203

Oh Snapple I'm so sorry to hear that. My neighbor just got a nice size Veridis from Sam's club. It's really full and about 3 feet tall.
wha
Pepperell, MA
(Zone 6a)

May 6, 2009
7:27 PM

Post #6513366

snapple very sorry to hear of your loss!

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