| Author | Content |
gloria125
Greensboro, AL
May 23, 2008
02:55 AM Post #4991554
| We've heard a lot about the genetic engineering of our food supply. Thanks for putting it in plain English, Ian. In the United States sometimes we have done a lot of things because we can without due consideration of the consequences. If gardeners who plant more seeds than anybody know what they are doing it is a big step in the right direction. |
darius
So.Appalachian Mtns, VA
(Zone 5b)
May 23, 2008
10:32 AM Post #4992494
| Good article, Ian. I read that the US gov't (USDA) owns half of all the patents of Terminator Technology. Just yesterday I read about how the big guns in GMO's are expected to launch a Greenwashing campaign touting GMO's to combat global warming. |
carrielamont
Milton, MA
(Zone 6a)
May 23, 2008
10:41 AM Post #4992545
| Thank you, Ian, for demystifying this complex topic. it is one that is highly important for we gardeners to understand! |
GranvilleSouth
(Zone 10a)
May 23, 2008
06:43 PM Post #4994616
| Funny you mentioning greenwashing Darius. They were just announcing some kind of awards in the media recently, for companies that have taken genuine environmental steps & kooked the snark at greenwashers. I shudder to imagine how they will spin GMO into "good for the planet", but you have to admit there are some pretty imaginative ppl in the advertising world. Unfortunately.
Btw, GURT is just a security system placed on genetic property. There would be thousands of GMO patents & all the different things done with genetics & plants would need an expert to even begin describing. I just avoid GM where I can but at the end of the day, it gets down to our right to know what is going on so we can decide ourselves.
This message was edited May 23, 2008 6:49 PM |
jesup
Malvern, PA
(Zone 7a)
May 26, 2008
10:43 AM Post #5004796
| GM isn't *inherently* evil, no more so than selective breeding is, or for that matter hybrid strains. GM plants could be good, bad, or indifferent. They *could* be no different than the result of a multi-generation breeding program, just a shortcut to get to the same result (moving a set of specific genes between two related strains).
Whether it's good or bad depends on the details of *what* is engineered into it (which to a point this article gets into). And the definition of "good" and "bad" depends on the viewer - are you viewing it from a conservation standpoint? (of wild species) Or a human health standpoint? Or from the standpoint of feeding the masses? (Which if you read the news is starting to become a problem - we can't count on continual increases in yield to feed increasing numbers of people, especially with increasing standards of living in China & India.) Or a religious standpoint (which includes blanket "it's fiddling with nature" positions)? Or from the standpoint of reducing use of chemicals? (Which engineered crops could reduce or increase, again depending on *what* is engineered into them, like natural pesticides (BT) vs tolerance for weedkillers such as roundup.)
Many of those are contradictory.
It's *so* much simpler to use caricatures ("frankenfoods") than to delve into the details or deal with the competing issues, which could divide opposition. |
gloria125
Greensboro, AL
May 26, 2008
10:48 AM Post #5004814
| What is bad is not being in on the decision making process. |
GranvilleSouth
(Zone 10a)
May 26, 2008
05:56 PM Post #5006740
| You are right Jesup. Pundits say its all good & opponents say its all bad. There has to be a logical approach in the middle. Like Gloria says, it is being left in the dark that presents problems. Unfortunately now, we are reaching a size of population & level of corporate dominance in society, that even ppl are being farmed in a way. We are expected to queue, wait, pay more for less & get poorer quality. Its what got me gardening in the first place. Life is too short to waste queueing for rubbish, when you can be in the sunshine digging. |
glang
(Zone 6a)
May 27, 2008
11:27 AM Post #5009973
| Geneticly modified organisms and selective breeding are not the same thing at all. With GMO you are manipulating the genes in such a way that does not EVER happen naturally. It is against nature. It is an abomination and extreemly dangerous to humanity and the world. Please take time to watch this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4499930634181592531...
This message was edited May 27, 2008 12:06 PM |
GranvilleSouth
(Zone 10a)
May 27, 2008
07:17 PM Post #5011922
| Thanx for the link Glang. I'll watch them all today. I love a good documentary, though stuff like this does get me fired up. |
glang
(Zone 6a)
May 28, 2008
11:45 AM Post #5015184
| It should get us fired up. That's the only way we will take this seriously and do something about it. By the way, if someone wants to jump right to the heart of just how life-threateningly dangerous eating GMO foods are proven to be, here's a link to the second video of the trilogy: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4559743831926068884&... |
gloria125
Greensboro, AL
May 28, 2008
11:56 AM Post #5015238
| I wish I could view these videos. It used to be that genetic structure was the product of Natural Selection, i.e. environmental variables. But what the environment is anymore is difficult to assess. Certainly, the science that allows genetic manipulation is now part of that environment. And so are the funding sources that promote that line of research.
In short, WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND THEY ARE US.
Public knowledge and responsibility are the key. |
darius
So.Appalachian Mtns, VA
(Zone 5b)
May 28, 2008
12:07 PM Post #5015310
| Hear, hear!! |
glang
(Zone 6a)
May 28, 2008
03:41 PM Post #5016331
| If your bandwidth is slow and the reason you can't view the videos, you can simply click on the pause button. While it is paused the video will continue to download to your computer for temporary storage (buffer). You can let it load ahead and then watch it. Also, the GMO Trilogy is sold at: http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/TheGMOTrilogy/index.c... for $19.95 or also at http://www.infowars.com/ |
gloria125
Greensboro, AL
May 28, 2008
04:17 PM Post #5016457
| 45.2 kbs at the moment.
thanks, glang |
GranvilleSouth
(Zone 10a)
May 28, 2008
06:23 PM Post #5016954
| One thing about it all, my money is on nature in this race. We do a lot of stupid things to our world but we are just microbes in the scale of things. Nature has shown she can lose what? 90% of all species & come back stronger than she was before. Unfortunately for us though, greed is just out of control now. We do nothing for the good of everyone anymore & it all stems from the corporate agenda.
This message was edited May 28, 2008 6:24 PM |
gloria125
Greensboro, AL
May 28, 2008
06:29 PM Post #5016992
| Even the damage to wildlife due to the Alaska oil spills is slowly starting to reverse.
It all comes back, (except maybe rain forests and American chestnuts)but we might not be here when it does.
We will all be singing "Waltzing Mathilda". |
glang
(Zone 6a)
May 29, 2008
09:29 AM Post #5019984
| Well that's just it. With a chemical spill or oil spill or something like that, the damage decreased over time. With genetics the pollution is self-replicating. The damage increases over time and gets exponentially worse as the altered genes breed into the wild and change the entire species forever. The safeguard is supposed to be the terminator genes, but really all the interist there is a way to make farmers buy the patented lifeform from the agribusiness corps every year. It's just a way for them to maintain ownership. They're not concerned about the suicide gene making it into the wild also. And why is there food scarcity all the sudden in the world right now? We didn't have this kind of scarcity untill the world food supply was monopolized by the globalist run agribusiness giants. And as the Wall Street Journal recently revealed on their front page, agribusiness has been posting double and more in profits since people in the world started starving. In fact, their are only two sectors in the American stock market showing growth now and that's oil and food. By the way, has anyone noticed what the globalist are now doing in Norway? Do they know something they're not telling us about genetic manipulation? http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7529 |
darius
So.Appalachian Mtns, VA
(Zone 5b)
May 29, 2008
08:33 PM Post #5023022
| glang, I know there was a thread somewhere on that seed bank operation, but I don't find it. I did find these 2 threads about Monsanto on this forum.
The whole GMO thing scares me because ultimately it takes away any control I now have over my food. Even if I grow only OP heirlooms, the opportunity exists for my veggies (and thus seed I save) to be contaminated by airborne terminator technology or anything else 'they' have cooked up.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/834216/
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/830575/ |
glang
(Zone 6a)
May 30, 2008
09:08 AM Post #5025351
| Thanks for the links, Darius.
For a really great 4 page pamphlet on what foods contain GMO ingredients: http://www.seedsofdeception.com/DocumentFiles/141.pdf
And for the only American action being taken that I know of: http://www.responsibletechnology.org/GMFree/Home/index.cfm |
GranvilleSouth
(Zone 10a)
May 31, 2008
07:22 PM Post #5032634
| Thanx again Glang. You can't say enough about the power in growing your own food. I am so glad I found gardening. It gives us a hope. I have to wonder what heirloom seeds will be worth in future too. |
glang
(Zone 6a)
June 01, 2008
11:52 PM Post #5039159
| GranvilleSouth, I notice you are from Australia. Lucky you because, from what I've read, your country is one of the many industrialized nations that require labeling of GMO foods. The US and Canada do not. Since they put high fructose corn syrup and soy in pretty much all our processed foods and canola and cotton seed oils for pre-cooked foods, it is estimated that over 70% of our grocery store food contains GMO ingredients. It has been observed that allergies have skyrocketed, immune systems are generally weaker (much more sicknesses), and antibiotic resistance is quickly escalating (watch the before mentioned videos to see why). Thing is, we don't know what the long-term effects will be, but the few animal tests that have been done are scary. Dead rats, etc. Oh, and when given a choice of GMO and conventional, animals smell and then refuse GMO. They KNOW it is bad.
For those in the US and Canada (and everywhere else that doesn't have it) we need to demand labeling so that we can at least make informed decisions when we buy. And it definitely needs to be completely removed from our schools.
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GranvilleSouth
(Zone 10a)
June 02, 2008
04:35 PM Post #5042102
| Wow. That is bad. Mandatory labelling at least makes producers think twice about what they offer. Allowing producers to sneak GMO in like the system you describe over there; that's just asking for abuse. The way we see the US, its very free market driven, as in you can sell anything there & the onus seems to be on the consumer all the time. We are becoming like that more now whereas in the past, there was a lot more government involvement in fair trading, consumer protection & so on.
Again, that is corporatisation & free trade eroding market fairness, safety & environmental standards. That kind of thing. We can be sued by US corporations for example, if we introduce environmental standards that effect even future profits. The EU for another example, was forced to accept animal furs from the US under free trade. They were previously banned in Europe.
If GMO is the poison. Free Trade is the syringe that administers it. |
glang
(Zone 6a)
June 02, 2008
10:53 PM Post #5044080
| This is all very true. All these free trade treaties are nothing more than erosion of sovereignty. It is a "race to the bottom", meaning that since labor is now competed for on a global scale everyone's wages are on their way down to "3rd world" standards, as well as any oversight that used to protect us. I know America is the muscle of the New World Order and, as such, is wreaking havoc on the world, but don't think we aren't getting it, too. Every institution of power here has been systematically taken over and it's not just corruption, but a criminal enterprise that now runs the world. You want to really be scared, look into Bilderberger, Club of Rome, Council on Foreign Relations, and the list goes on. These are world organizations of the most powerful elite that meet regularly to form a one world government to be run by them. That is where "free" trade, "global warming", "terrorism" and yes, "food scarcity" comes from. All these things are in their own documents years ago as a means to consolidate their power. That is what's happening to the US economy right now. Through the central banking that they own, they have been devaluing our dollar in order to drive us, and the rest of the world, into economic depression so they can usher in socialism (though they will never call it that) and complete the joining of the North American Union (the American public would never accept this unless we were starving and told we must in order to compete globally again). There is already an African Union, and South America and Asia are currently working to do the same. Obviously, Europe was the first stage of unionizing.
Globalization is not just a corporate takeover. They are forming the unelected world government before our eyes. The problem is, they have long owned the media outlets of the world so they don't tell us on television or newspapers. Want to take it a step further? They talk of how the world is overpopulated and discuss means of mass population reduction. These are the people we are trusting when we go buy food supplied by the agribusiness giants.
I know this was all way off topic - sorry - I can't help myself when I feel the opportunity for a receptive ear. We live in a time when it is hard to tell the truth because the lie is so big. For Christians, it is easy to apply current events to the book of Revelation. But regardless of religious viewpoints, their own documents and their own mouths tell us what they're doing and we see it with our own eyes. We just have to connect the dots is all. Seek and you will find.
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GranvilleSouth
(Zone 10a)
June 03, 2008
02:09 PM Post #5046987
| Yeah. Its certainly outside the hands of the average Joe. I feel sorry for US citizens because its government can earn them a bad rap at times but as you say, its everywhere. We have been up to no good in Timor for example; supporting a dicator for decades, from which we eventually helped "liberate" the Timorese in return for a dominant stake in their natural gas reserves.
What you say about world hunger & herding ppl, I couldn't agree more with. You see it all over but ppl make it so easy. Supermarkets here are now becoming fuel suppliers as well & its not hard to see that before long, affording fuel will depend upon purchasing food from certain corporations. They have just introduced "loyalty" cards for example: buy your gruel, scan you card & get your petrol more affordably on the way home. You see cars lined up at the bowsers & out on to the highway for a kilometre back or more. Its like, wouldn't they burn more money queueing up than they actually save buying the rotten fuel? But they do it anyway & its ppl like that who worry me. |
glang
(Zone 6a)
June 04, 2008
10:25 AM Post #5051582
| Yes, they worry me, too. They are the majority and they are also the ones being conned into voting for those very people that are herding and enslaving us. The corporate/banking world owns the legislative representatives. Our only chance would be to get to vote for people that truly represented our best interests, but that doesn't seem possible anymore. I used to think I was born in the best time period ever, but now I realize the best days are behind us. If only we could go back to the days of the family farm. Self reliance - live off the land. That kind of thing. Before agribusiness took over and sent everyone into the cities looking for work. |
GranvilleSouth
(Zone 10a)
June 05, 2008
02:35 AM Post #5056272
| Yeah, I guess but there is always a bright side. I can't see how we can be human without greed & competition & even if we started again, we'd probably wind up some place similar. Nature will run her course though. Never forget that she remains absolutely in control & always will. |
darius
So.Appalachian Mtns, VA
(Zone 5b)
June 05, 2008
10:11 AM Post #5057239
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| Quoted: | | Nature Bats Last! |
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