Mowing, baling, bale prices, land rent?

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

Does anyone mow and bale on someone else's land? Or do you have someone that mows and bales on your own?

I'm curious to learn about land rent, crop splitting, etc. For now, I'm only talking about grass hay. I did find a local Ag report giving the cost/prices for mowing, tedding, raking, baling and hauling the bales.

This is my particular situation. The first year I lived here, I priced getting the field bush hogged because it had been uncared for and overgrown for at least 3 years. The best price I found was $65. It was baled and hauled away and I was told it was for his own livestock. For the following two years, he showed up unannounced, mowed and left, came back, tedded and left then came back and baled and left, coming back later to get the bales which I hear were sold for between $80-120.

Now that I have friends here, they are telling me I'm stupid and I should be getting paid by the acre, sharing the crop, etc. My biggest gripe is that he shows up unannounced to do it and is putting big tractor tire ruts in my "lawn area" and not just the field. I've spent a lot of time, money and back breaking work filling in the old ruts and now there are new ones across the front yard and in between gardens. Yes, there is access from the field side.

We've lost some toys in these surprise mowings and also have had to run out in a panic to find kittens, dogs and chickens before they are mowed because we never know when he's coming. I've tried to be nice about it but now I'm getting pretty irked and feel like I'm being taken advantage of. I've pretty much felt like he needed the money more than we did so I've not said anything. That is not the case right now. We do have "no trespassing" signs out and we've never made any deals with this man.

So, am I being taken advantage of? Should I put my foot down? Am I entitled to something out of this, whether it be some of the bales or money for the land used? We are only talking about 5 acres of hay but there are six really nice big round bales sitting out there and I'm getting nothing out of it. I had several people tell me they would send me people that would pay ME to do it but the other guy came before I could get anyone here. I have people offering to buy the bales from me right now but I don't feel right about that either. I plan to talk to him when he comes back but want to make sure I have some information first.

(Tia) Norman, OK(Zone 7a)

Can you lock it up. By what you are saying he IS taking advantage of you. Hope you can get this worked out.

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

Well, I have no way to move 1800 pound bales. I think that is what they are? They are about 5x5 feet. My best friend, who's family does hay for a living, told me to tell him to pay me before he takes it or tell him I'll call the police. I don't want to be hateful but I have six kids and my husband is out of work and this is the fourth year he has baled it. The first year I did not care to pay him because it was overgrown and full of weeds. It's pretty nice now and all the spring rain certainly helped.

Panama, NY(Zone 5a)

Chele, this guy needs to have some serious intervention. Want me to send Stan down? Don't let him take the hay until he pays you for it. Tell him in no uncertain terms that unless you get a contract of some sort, he's not to come back. If he says you owe him for mowing etc. tell him you believe he had that covered the last few years. If he balks, do call the police. Or send your kids out to whine at him. ; ) Block off his access NOW.

(Tia) Norman, OK(Zone 7a)

I agree with what Kathleen said. Its your land, he is trespassing. Maybe a close neighbor who has a hay hook on their truck could come by and move them bales for you. Do u have anything that could eat them. Maybe you could sell them to someone. Thats an idea, Sell them and it will make him come to you. And then you can tell him thanks but no thanks. Hope you can work it out. Someone, I dont care if its one of my kids or my mom, WILL NOT make ruts in my yard. Good luck

Porter, TX(Zone 9a)

I'm not a farmer and not a lawyer and don't play one online but . . .

I would put a stop to it ASAP. He could come up with some kind of adverse claim to your property. He could claim he's been doing this for years and no one has ever said anything, therefor he has the implied right to use it. He's basically a squatter.

He's trespassing and *stealing*. I'd track in him down today and tell him to desist. Get a restraining order if necessary.

and..and then bill him for the last bales! Ha!

OK, I'm done lol

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

I want to thank you guys so much for your input. I will politely confront him when he arrives. I'm afraid he'll come get it when I'm gone so I may have to track him down by phone or in person.

To be honest, he's been saying he'd bring me manure since 2005. It's never arrived. Either the scoop is broken or the spreader or someone else is using them. I'd gladly trade for the manure because I need it. In May, he told me he was bringing manure then didn't.

Last year he did disk my veggie garden twice and only charged me $25 but it didn't take him very long. This year he never even offered. I feel like he is getting more and more and not even offering common courtesy.

Regarding the field, I thought he was doing a lot of work to make the money but when you figure it's in the $480-700 for profit, I do feel like I should get something. And now that we are on the fourth year, he's zipping through here pretty quickly.

His family did own this land years ago and he did it then and also used it as a cut through. It's gone through several owners since then and he was not doing this with the previous owner.

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

Here is one of the six bales in question. My daughter is 5'4". As you can see, she is completely grossed out by the outdoors. LOL I had to force her to stand there! I keep threatening to send her to Kathleen (who is more than willing to have her) so she can learn about real farm life and real manure.

Oh, someone asked about animals. We only have chickens and rabbits. I'd like to have goats but not until we can put up good fences.

Thumbnail by Badseed
(Tia) Norman, OK(Zone 7a)

Yes you need a good fence for them, so you wouldnt really have any need for the hay. Not that bit that is. Yea be nice but seems like you have been and he keeps making promises and not going thru with them........

Panama, NY(Zone 5a)

I thought you were coming? hehe.

Don't feel bad for the guy, he's gotten more than his fair share.

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

Like I tell my girls from time to time..."No more Mrs. Nice Mommy". LOL

Don't temp me Kathleen! I could use a good reason to escape. If I sent myself COD would you pay the charges? LOL

Panama, NY(Zone 5a)

lol, just don't forget to cut holes in the box.

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

Let me see if I can find a refrigerator box somewhere....

Caneyville, KY(Zone 6b)

Really need to put a stop to it before he gets the rest of the bales. Call him and tell him to stay off your property. If nothing else have a friend move them to their place and sell them for you. It's your hay! He had a lot of nerve charging you for disking your garden when he's been getting all that free hay to sell.

Lewisville, MN(Zone 4a)

I just heard from a neighbor the other day that bales like that are now going for $85 each.

The way this usually works is for the person putting up the hay to pay "Stumpage". I have no idea how much that would be now. Back in the late 60's when I was farming, it was 10 per small bale. The ones that weigh about 50 lbs.
So he should be paying you so much for each bale of hay.

I don't know what your land in Ohio is worth for rent, but around here it is in the $200 per acre, per year range, & going up!
Hmm, 5 acres X $200 = lot more than a load of manure!

Bernie

Deep East Texas, TX(Zone 8a)

I think he "has" been bringing you manure since 2005. LOL I would approach this a little differently.

If it is like most haying, he cuts more than once a year? I would contact him... not wait for him. You surely know how? I'd tell him this baled hay is the last he will get unless he wanted to sign a contract to pay you for future cuts. Be prepared. Know how much you want and what your terms will be. Don't let him negotiate rates. If he refuses, then make it known that your property is off limits to him and trespass charges will be filed in the future.

Do the research from others that will cut hay before you draw up the contract. Make it on your terms not his. For example the hay shouldn't be left in the field nor should it be harvested or picked up when the ground is wet. If he stacks it on the side of your pasture, charge storage fees. Mandate that any future damage to the soil be repaired as well as fertilizer applied in a manner that is acceptable to that type of crop.

Arm yourselves with information and take it to his turf. Don't wait for him to come to yours. Go get him!

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

Hello! I did not fall off the face of the earth. LOL

I thank you all for your input and great answers. I've not taken the notion to go run him down and he's not yet come for OUR bales. It's a stalemate of sorts I suppose. Like I said, he tends to just show up when he feels like it...

My friend said the going rate around here is about $50-70 per acre. She told me to hit him for $300 and if he says no, to call the police. I hate to go that route but I don't like the feet prints on my back side either! I figure if he wants to get too snarky, I'll pay him $65 for the mow and sell them outright. I've had offers!

LOL Podster! Yeah, I think I've gotten a LOT of manure. Most years, he cuts once. Last year he tried to up it and get two cuts and cut early in the summer. But we had a drought year so the second cut did not come. He cut it last week and it was a good four feet tall. He chopped up my four year olds Disney Princess ball and she is really not happy. Apparently he got a stray cat too. To be honest, I've never had a phone number for him. He rents a house down the road and his sister has a house the other direction, right down the road and I know where his mom lives too. ;) I can find him.

Caneyville, KY(Zone 6b)

There's people like him all over. He has taken advantage of you and you don't owe him anything. But like you, I'd probably pay him the $65 too, just so I wouldn't feel so guilty. Time to put your foot down girl, cuz your family needs the money too!

If need be, a bunch of us could come up and be a human barricade until you get the bales sold! LOL!

Rocky Mount, VA(Zone 7a)

Start making sure that the 'Ol man keeps up with his "target practice" best done with an extremely loud 12ga shotgun. This will let anyone nearby know that there are in fact arms on the farm and that y'all are not to be trifled with, it will serve a double propose with all the young ladies you are trying to bring up (even when I was an up start I knew whose daughter was best left for someone with less sense than I).

Caneyville, KY(Zone 6b)

Dyson...(snicker, snicker)

Rocky Mount, VA(Zone 7a)

By the way - http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=5173412
new grand-daughter

Waddy, KY

Chele, usually down here if someone cuts, rakes and bales the hay off a lot they do it for the hay and YOU pay nothing. Quite often it will be done on shares. 60/40 or 70/30. Depends upon the arrangement.

If it were mine I'd probably let him have it this year but start looking around for someone who would want to do it next year for shares or cut it and pay a certain amount for the bales. I'm not sure what hay's selling for right now, certainly not $85 a bale down here now that grass has come in, but you'd have to figure a fair price considering the operators use of one or more tractors, haybine or disc mower, tedder, rake, baler, etc. Start hunting for that person now and get them lined up for next year. Then in January call this fellow and tell him that you've made other arrangements for your lot this year and won't need him to cut it. That way you've given him notice that things have changed and in plenty of time to make sure that he just doesn't show up unexpected some day when you're not there and start laying down hay.

Janet

Rankin, IL(Zone 5a)

I am reading this wondering why you are not thinking of using this stuff or at least thinking of your future livestock.. goats.. for your goats milk cheeses & soaps.. a field for your alpaca for your fibers to sell (up to $30. an oz and $10,000. a female baby) straw for bedding.. wheats for flour, oats for feed..

Come-on Badseed... didn't YOU tell me I can do this!!!

I would have the kids help me paint signs and poke them in each bale... "Touch this bale of hay and you are STEALING and WILL be PROSECUTED!!!" If he continues when he gets there.. call the police... regardless of who baled it.. you did not hire him.. you do not have an aggrement.. AND, if you continue to allow it to go on.. it will become innomet (bad spelling) domain.. you MUST stop it now.. your years are coming very close to him reaching his limit.. legally.. look it up.

When we first moved here the neighbors down the way use to do the same thing.. we just started to mow that field.. only took a few times.., yea I know it was big and troublesome, but then they had nothing to come to.. and I used it for my dd to practice her driveing and turning corners.. if she couldn't mow completely she couldn't practice in the car.. lol

Anyway stand stall and realize in the long run you may have more to lose legally than just a bunch of grass... you may just be handing over the rights to your land.

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

Dyson! Somehow I missed that baby picture up there. It must have jumped instead of skipped to the new post! What a beautiful baby. I can see that pretty blond hair too. :) Congratulations!!

Thank you for your input Janet. As I said above, he charged me the first year but baled it and took it. The last three years, he's just shown up and done it. He charged me to disc up the garden and I never thought twice about paying someone for a job done. He's never even offered me any share of the hay. I'm sure he knows I only have small critters but the consideration still would have been welcomed.

frans, you wouldn't come back and get me with my own words now would ya? LOL I'll remember about the driving lessons in the field! My eldest will be 15 in August and I'm already worried. ha!

We've been riddled with issues since we moved here, mostly financial. I refuse to give up and believe if we keep plugging away, eventually we will be okay. First my other house didn't sell, then hubby lost his over time. A lawyer advised us to file BK so we could have some kind of life and feed the kids. In April hubby was downsized from his job and we've both been looking since then.

On a happier note, I got a nice big pool for the labor of going to take it down thanks to a DG friend. And this week I got a hot tub for a very low price from another DGer. I can hardly sit and feel sorry for us, when in this big world of selfish people, there were people here that cared about us and made life better with simple gestures. ;). We hardly ever run the a/c so now we can keep cool during the day and go massage our sore muscles at the end of the day. And the girls are all happy and healthy too!

Caneyville, KY(Zone 6b)

Chele, that's what it's all about! Just being healthy and happy!

Haven't heard recently but round bales were going for only $35.

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

The best things in life are free. ;)

At this point, I'd be thrilled if he'd just bring me the darned manure he's been promising for 4 years! I have a ton of daylily seedlings that need to hit the ground!

Premont, TX(Zone 9b)

Ok here in South Texas bales are going from 55 bucks to 70 bucks and that is for last years hay!
When we had hay to bay the guy who did the baling charged us 1.00 per bale to bale it for us this were the small square bales.. when we did the large ones we paid him 15 bucks per bale to bale it for us.. baling machine,netting, gas and labor inculed..that also inculed mowing , raking and than baling the hay.. some guys here go 50 / 50 depends on who u get!
Now we just fenced it in and ran our cattle on the front 15 ac. he was mowing than move them to the back 20 ac. it is so dry here there is nothing to bale.
Either way he owes you from the years he came and just did the haying.. I say sell the hay u got , its yours to do with as u chose..If he asks u where it is tell him u sold it as it is your land and your hay, case closed..even at 50 bucks thats 300.00 dollars ..

This message was edited Jul 3, 2008 11:48 PM

Goldthwaite, TX(Zone 8a)

Baling costs have gone up here. $22 per roll, minimum of 2 rolls per acre. Less hay than that, flat rate of $45 per acre. Right now last years hay is $55 to $60 a roll, if you can find any, with a charge based on distance for delivery. With diesel at $4.65, I can see why. If we do not get rain soon, we may not get any hay cut this year at all. The alternative is selling cattle.
Robert

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

I wish you lived closer Robert. We had too much spring rain in my opinion. This is the earliest my field has been cut since I've been here. I don't need this hay and I would share.

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

Believe it or not, the 6 big round bales are still sitting in the field. Last week he sent his nephew down to ask if he could pick it up. That is the first time we've been consulted before they arrived. I wonder if the neighbors are talking, because we did tell a friend that bales with him that we thought we were being taken advantage of and that we've been waiting since 2005 for the manure he needed to get rid of. LOL

So anyway, hubby told the nephew that he thought we should be getting something out of this. The kid said he didn't know and hubby told him to send his Uncle down. He's not been here yet and he is picking up bales from other places as we see him go by several times a day.

That is where we stand.

I've actually been looking at the bales, thinking about cutting one or two apart and composting them. :) I need dirt more than I need hay but money would be nice too!

Caneyville, KY(Zone 6b)

Thanks for the update. I've been wondering how all this panned out.

Might as well break one open, as it doesn't appear he intends to pay you for them.

Panama, NY(Zone 5a)

Michele, I'd wait on composting the bale. Hay is quite high again this year and it shouldn't be to hard to find a buyer, one way or another.

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

Fortunately I'm in no hurry. ;)

I'm wondering if the decent weather will hold up for a second cut or not. Everyone around here seems to being doing pretty well.

My friend's SO does hay and straw for a living and he's filled his barn to capacity plus a few rental barns.

I hope it's a better year for the farmers and the animals than last year.

Hempstead, TX(Zone 8a)

Well, I agree with everyone else. Get some sort of contract for your own protection; here in southeast Texas we have had drought conditions (did get some rain from the last hurricane) and people are either beginning to sell their stock or trying to buy hay (it cost me $28 per 5X5 to cut and roll). I think the round bales are going for 50-65; it just depends on type, etc.

In these days and times folks ought to be helping our their neighbor not taking advantage of them.

Maybe he got the message and will back off, and you will be able to find someone else to help out.

Best of luck.

Hillsboro, OH(Zone 6a)

Hello Melissa.

They've not been back to get the bales. Matter of fact, they've driven by several times and looked but not even waved (which they normally do). I was out by myself the other day and he did wave. I imagine they are shocked that we finally said anything.

It had been getting dry here too. We finally got rain yesterday and the night before. It's not looking like there will be a second cut this year. I venture to guess the field is only about 18" tall.

I guess he'll either come down here for a chat or the hay will sit there and rot. If things get much tighter around here, I may sell it.

Thanks for your input.

Michele

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