| Author | Content |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 5, 2008 4:34 PM Post #5207752
| From the Recipe forum I have a lot of good ideas for good ww homemade bread. Now...my experience with bread is that it is flour, water, some fat (?), sugar and yeast. I bought a Bread Machine book and almost every recipe calls for gluten!!! Lots of them call for milk and many for an egg. Is there a reason for all of this? Can those things be left out? (not the milk...I would substitue water - but I am lactose intolerant.). I am thinking to turn the book back to Borders and get the one that Herbie recommended...but I want it simple. |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 5, 2008 5:08 PM Post #5207904
| Adding extra gluten helps the bread rise higher. It's usually recommended in breads that also use some flour other than wheat flour, like rye bread or oat bread.
Gluten is what traps the gas given off by the yeast and makes the bread rise. Only wheat flour has a high percentage of gluten.
I've not had a problem getting wheat bread to rise as long as I used at least half white flour. Of course that doesn't make it 100% whole wheat.
100% ww may need some extra gluten since it's pretty heavy, I haven't tried it so I would go with what the recipe called for. But I'd also experiement too at some point.
As a rule I leave out the eggs (unless I'm making egg bread) and milk. They make the bread more crumbly and cake like. If you want smooth and soft just use water and oil, I have had good results with butter or shortening too.
This message was edited Jul 5, 2008 12:09 PM |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 5, 2008 5:12 PM Post #5207922
| I love dark bread, the darker the better and I did make some pumpernickle without the extra gluten and it did rise OK, but not as much as I like it to rise. I'm a big fan of high rising bread.
I bought some gluten to try again but haven't gotten around to it yet. |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 5, 2008 6:10 PM Post #5208149
| Prickle...made the bread last night...100% WW and no gluten. It isn't quite a Hockey Puck...but close!!!
I used the Bread Machine on Dough cycle. Maybe I will get some gluten just for the heck of it. I think maybe I should cut down on the water just because we are really humid here...could affect the H2O content of the dough. Trial and error!!!!
I, too, love a light fluffy REALLY grainy bread full of grains. Guess that is going to be further down the road!!!!!
Carol |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 5, 2008 6:43 PM Post #5208269
| If you like it grainy you might experiment with adding some cracked wheat or 7 grain cereal. That'll give you something extra to chew on ;) |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 5, 2008 7:05 PM Post #5208342
| SO...great idea. Do you cook the cereal first? Use it dry as part of the wheat thing? |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 5, 2008 7:16 PM Post #5208397
| I checked some recipes, some say to cook it for 10 mins, some say to soak it for an hour. My grandmother used to add it dry ( but I think it might depend on what kind of grain is in it).
Experiment time! I'm off to the store, I made myself hungry. lol |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 5, 2008 7:21 PM Post #5208420
| Me too!!!! |
smallplot
Tallahassee, FL
July 5, 2008 8:51 PM Post #5208710
| Check out the Harvest Grains Blend at The Baker's Catalog on-line (King Arthur Flour.) This is a blend of seeds and grains that you can add to your bread recipe. The Baker's Catalog people have all kinds of things to help your baking, too numerous to mention here. They are helpful too, as a few years ago when I was doing alot of baking, I was able to call and get help from someone knowledgeable about my concern. http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/landing.jsp?go=home&ref=...
This message was edited Jul 5, 2008 5:24 PM |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 5, 2008 10:59 PM Post #5209225
| Thanks SO much!!!
Hockey Pucks really aren't too bad toasted with a bit of cheese!!! |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 6, 2008 12:13 AM Post #5209570
| I really like King Arthur flour, a little pricey but very tasty. That Harvest Grains Blend looks delicious. I'll have to order some of that and the pumpernickle flour too.
My grandmother used to put Roman Meal cereal in her bread. My local Super Wal-mart didn't have any. In fact I don't recall seeing it recently anywhere. But they do have a website:
http://www.romanmeal.com/Store/Shopping.aspx?cateName=Canist...
Wal-mart also didn't have Bob's Red Mill products so what I ended up getting was Post Great Grains. It's a flake type cereal with ww, rolled oats, malted barley, rice flour and pecans.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 6, 2008 12:21 AM Post #5209602
| My cat Wolfie loves making bread, no not that kind, the real thing.
He's obsessed with the bread machine. He often re-programs it for me.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 6, 2008 12:26 AM Post #5209620
| Here is the dough at the end of it's first rising just before it was punched down. I used 1 1/2 cups white flour, 1 cup ww and 1 cup great grains.
It rose pretty well, but it feels a little dense. I hope the second rising will be ok, I didn't use gluten.
This message was edited Jul 5, 2008 7:30 PM
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 6, 2008 12:27 AM Post #5209626
| Here it is oiled and ready for the second rising in a warmed oven. I'll let you know what happens in an hour. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 6, 2008 1:32 AM Post #5209954
| Here it is an hour later. A very respectable rise. A little funky on the end there, that happens sometimes. I think it has something to do with the paddle. We just eat that end first.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 6, 2008 1:34 AM Post #5209965
| Really looks good. I haven't seen King Arthur flour here...but then again, we are not in the mainstream of store items...will have to look at Safeway (they are usually so expensive I avoid them!!!) I CAN get Bob's Red Mill stuff here...some of it anyway...at least at the Health Food Store. What would you use of his?
Tell me...you warm your oven to rise yur bread? Then do you just crank it up to 350 with the bread in there?
Gosh...I am learning SO MUCH. Thanks so much for walking me thru this!!!
edited to correct some spelling...
This message was edited Jul 5, 2008 3:36 PM |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 6, 2008 1:55 AM Post #5210060
| Bob's Red Mill has a multigrain cereal it's 7 or 9 grain, I forget. It's a hot porridge type cereal rather a flake. I would use it as an addition. They also have cracked wheat.
I turn on the oven until it says 110 degrees or I just stick my hand in and when it feels warm I turn it off and put the bread in to rise 1 hour or until it's risen enough to satisfy me. I do this when I have the A/C on or any time it's cooler than 80 degrees in the house.
When the bread has risen enough I take it out of the oven. Then I preheat the oven to 350*, put the bread back in and bake for 35 mins. |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 6, 2008 2:14 AM Post #5210153
| Here it is out of the oven and brushed with butter. Next I wrapped it in plastic wrap and left it to rest for a while.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 6, 2008 3:01 AM Post #5210350
| Oh YUMMY!!!
The Cereal...BRMill...like the 8 or 9 Grain...I have that. Do you precook it? Soak it?
Your bread looks really delicious. When you wrap it in Plastic Wrap...doesn't it sweat!
Prickle...what a dear you ARE!!! Thanks so much.
Cheers to Wolfie.
Carol |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 6, 2008 3:20 AM Post #5210440
| It might fog up the wrap a bit but that helps tenderizes the crust. It steams a little.
I don't think you need to cook the 7 grain cereal.
I had a bite of my bread. It's pretty good, lightly sweet and nutty. I think if I do it again I'll use honey instead of brown sugar. That would give it a nice honey wheat flavor.
It was fun taking the pictures :) |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 6, 2008 5:09 AM Post #5210882
| Yes, I like honey too...going to the open market tomorrow and am going to buy some fresh.
Do you ever use any of the fancy 'nut' oils...like walnut oil, or macadamia nut oil. (at some nutritional office for seniors I saw a chart that had macadamia nut oil just a smidge better for you - or less bad for you - than olive oil)?
Am going to the Health Food Store...they may have some Roman Meal Cereal...I used to eat that!!!!
Prickle...you have become my Fairy God'breakbaking'mother...thanks!!!! Will let you know about my next one...soon!!!! |
willowwind
Moundridge, KS (Zone 6a)
July 6, 2008 10:46 PM Post #5214193
| I often make bread with cracked wheat and I do cook it before adding it to the rest of the bread dough. It softens it just enough that you don't get hard pieces stuck in your teeth, but still leaves that nutty, grainy texture. My recipe uses honey and water, rather than milk, which gives it the best crust I've ever tasted...nice and crispy when toasted, never tough. We live near an Amish run bulk food store where I'm able to buy high gluten bread flour, so I can go about one third white flour, two thirds whole wheat flour and cracked wheat, and still get a loaf that rises to be nice and light. I don't use a bread machine but I do knead it really well and give it an extra rising which is supposed to let the gluten form better. Sounds like you're really getting a good recipe developed.
Kathy |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 6, 2008 11:24 PM Post #5214384
| Going to try again this afternoon. My first loaf is going to replace some tiles!!!!
Carol |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 6, 2008 11:51 PM Post #5214538
| Happy sunday every one.
Aloha, if you use the cereal I recommend using some gluten too. My loaf from yesterday is a little more dense than I like it. So next time I'm definitely going to try the gluten.
I haven't tried any of the fancy oils.
When I first started baking all our bread about 3 months ago it was to save a little on the food bill so I've pretty much just stuck to a basic no frills brown loaf for everyday. I've made some egg bread and pumpernickle too but now I want to experiment more.
So much for economy . . .
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willowwind
Moundridge, KS (Zone 6a)
July 7, 2008 2:16 AM Post #5215310
| I don't know if I really save much money, especially if I would shop the day old section, but homemade bread tastes soooo much better that it's always worth the time. I haven't tried fancy oils either, just cannola, but figure anything that makes it healthier would sure be worth a try. I do add ground flax seed along with the cracked wheat just for the healthy aspect. I don't think it changes the flaver at all, but I know it supposed to be able to substitute for some of the oil. I don't cut back my oil, but I think it does improve the texture. I do often add cinnamon with a bit of sugar when I shape it for the pan, just sprinkled on the surface then rolled up...at least for one loaf...and that is a real treat.
Kathy |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 7, 2008 2:26 AM Post #5215372
| I've figured out that per loaf it's anywhere from .67 to $10.00 depending on whether or not I add in gas and electric, lol
Actually I've arrived at approx $1.67 per loaf. Which isn't really that much of a savings. I *can* get decent everyday bread .99 if I can find it when it's fresh.
But homemade tastes so much better, I think it's worth it.
This message was edited Jul 6, 2008 9:29 PM |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 7, 2008 3:14 AM Post #5215590
| Oh, you guys KILL me!!! Our local baker has raised his prices...between 5.50 and 7$ a loaf for whole wheat or something with nuts and twigs. Commercial bread turns me off...too much high fructose corn syrup AND chemicals. Maybe we should give up bread all together!!
About to bake the 2nd try...wish me luck!! |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 7, 2008 4:43 AM Post #5215998
| You won't BELIEVE the loaf I have just taken out of the oven! It is so GORGEOUS!!! It looks like yours, Prickle...oh, I just hope it is all done inside and tastes as good as it smells!!! I used some Bobs'RM Gluten Flour, some bulgar (which soaked in the water at the bottom of the pan) and some sunflower seeds. I am so thrilled!!!! Thank you thank you thank you!!!!
Now I guess I won't have to shoot myself! |
willowwind
Moundridge, KS (Zone 6a)
July 7, 2008 4:53 AM Post #5216021
| Ohhh!! I'd never make it. I really do love my bread...at least the homemade variety. I haven't sat and figured it out so well, but I do think it's fairly reasonable for me to make, here in Kansas, especailly with the bulk food store available. I just checked because I couldn't remember...$.67/lb. for high gluten white bread flour, $1.00/lb. for high gluten ww flour and $.95/lb. for cracked wheat. Actually those prices are up from what I was paying, but I usually get 20 -30 lbs. of each when I go and keep it in the freezer, so my driving costs are minimal. I guess I could have just snuck out across the road at night and cut my own supply, but I'd have felt guilty and missed the fun of the trip to get things, as there's a large nursery, fabric shop and wonderful "everything from scratch" restaurant there and we usually have to do the full tour.
Aloha, I do wish i could just send you a bag of our good Kansas wheat. My son just got back from exactly where you are, in April, after spending 7 months on a temporary physical therapy assignment, and I know he talked about the high prices of many things. I think he and his family really lived on the wonderful tropical produce and seafood that we in land-locked Kansas pay such a high price for, as I know he said he was pleasantly surprised that if you ate right it really could be very economical.
Prickle, now you've got me wondering so I'll have to do some calculation tomorrow. I've been tempted to just go to the Co-op and buy a bushel of wheat and try doing my own grinding. Wouldn't be high gluten I guess, but might be fun.
Aloha, hope your bread turns out great. Good night!
Kathy |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 7, 2008 5:01 AM Post #5216033
| Well...we don't have large selections of flour...ww/white...still haven't been to Safeway to see if they have KA. Yes...if you eat locally - local produce etc. and shop sales the food budget isn't awesome...but it IS almost a full time job! I have started hydroponic lettuce and growing some vegies...we have 12 acres with tons of fruit trees and I trade a girlfriend fruit for fresh farm eggs.
Hope your son and family enjoyed our rock in the middle of the ocean. We love it!
Carol |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 7, 2008 5:32 PM Post #5218397
| Let us know how it turned out! |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 7, 2008 5:46 PM Post #5218458
| Re King Arthur flour: I'd heard about it on TV but I'd never seen it until I moved to Texas. I think it may be an eastern thing or maybe even a strictly southern thing.
Gold Medal - Best for Bread is good too. I'm pretty sure they have that out West.
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AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 7, 2008 6:33 PM Post #5218703
| The BREAD was/is fabulous! Could have cooked 7.5 mins more (lol)...but it really looks and tastes really good. The cracked wheat needs a bit more soaking...but, hey...fiber is good, no?
Can't thank you enough!!!!! |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 7, 2008 6:44 PM Post #5218752
| Yay! I'm glad it finally worked out :) |
willowwind
Moundridge, KS (Zone 6a)
July 8, 2008 12:52 AM Post #5220737
| Sounds like your bread turned out great Aloha. You can get really spoiled quickly once you've got a good recipe. My son and his family absolutely loved "your rock". He had received a permanent job offer and I think would have taken it except it was just so far from family for both of them. Sometimes it's good for kids to realize how important family is and this trip provided that. He has always been a mountain spirit and his main hobbies are gardening, hiking and photography so he couldn't have gone to a more perfect place. They really loved living on the Hilo side of the island as well...less touristy and incredible vegetation. I've had to laugh because he is now nursing a plumeria he brought back, here in Kansas, but he called the other day excited because it was blooming. They are all missing the good food they got used to eating. Kansas beef and potatoes just aren't the same for sure.
It sounds like you have a wonderful place. What kinds of fruit do you grow? I think that's one of the things they miss the most. I'm not trying to be dumb, but is growing the hydroponic lettuce and veggies easier there than regular gardening? I'd think with all the rain just putting things in the ground would be great. I've never tried that method of gardening, but here it seems to be mainly used for winter things in greenhouses. It's always seemed like an interesting system.
Kathy |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 8, 2008 5:10 AM Post #5221948
| I am so glad he and his family liked it here. We LOVE it!!! It is very similar to other Polynesian large towns...just a little bit bigger with used car lots!!! We sailed thru the South Pacific and consider E. Hawaii just like it...but on steroids. And the banks are American!!
We grow bananas (and even with 100 trees we can be out of fruit!!!), about 12 different kinds of citrus, mango (doesn't do well), Mamay, Lychee, Longan, Coffee, Rolinia, Breadfruit, Jackfruit, Figs, Abiu, Mountain Apple and a whole lot of trees we hadn't heard of (about 10). We have 5 different kinds of banana. We have spices (like cloves, cinnamon etc.) and all of it is non commercial...just for us and friends. With surplus we stock the Food Bank. OH yes...and 14 avocado trees and 2 dogs and 2 cats who love them!!! One of the dogs finds the dropped Avos which aren't ripe and she buries them to get ripe - and she gets very chubby!!!
Yes, with almost 150" of rain annually, it is easier to grow many vegies in a greenhouse...the rain really wants to create fungi and molds. Lettuce grows beautifully in the greenhouse...beans, eggplant, sweetpotato, taro etc. grow well outdoors. I am trying to be less dependent upon the stores that import stuff from the mainland. Big push to grow our own and buy locally!!! |
willowwind
Moundridge, KS (Zone 6a)
July 8, 2008 12:48 PM Post #5222662
| Wow!!! Am I impressed! I can't imagine having all those wonderful things available just for my own use. DS talked about people coming into work with sacks of excess grapefruit etc. when the trees were full. That must be one of the most productive places in the world. I also can't imagine dealing with that much rain, although my son described it as light, just in and out of the showers - type most of the time. There were several weeks of almost constant rain though, in January I think, where it sounded like it really poured on a constant basis. Is there ever much of a drier stretch? Do you ever have to actully supply water yourself? I guess lettuce with too much overhead water could get pretty diseased so I can understand the benefit of greenhouses...just kind of backwards from how we use them here.
I love the avocado burying. I'd never thought of giving my dogs or cats avocado, but they're usually fairly expensive here so I hoard more then I share, especially with the animals. One of my dogs steals corn cobs from the chickens, but she just sits on them and plays keep-away as opposed to eating them. Do you have much trouble with wildlife (I'm not sure what kind you'd have) geting into your fruits and veggies? I'm sure there are birds, but do you have rabbits, coons etc.? It's so interesting to think of how different yet similar it might be. Do you deal with chiggers or mosquitos with all that rain?
I too, am trying to cut down as much as possible on having to buy food. We have a large vegetable garden and about 8 varied fruit trees as well as chickens for eggs. Our excess goes to working staff at the long-term care home where my husband works. Many of the aides are on pretty minimal salary and most have young children so we feel like that's been a good place to send the overflow, and there are always takers. Some years are better than others but we usually get enough to put up a lot in the pantry and freezer. I tried a winter coldframe last year and had the most wonderful lettuce and spinach from Febuary on, so that will definitely be an idea to expand upon. I want to do more fall planting this year that with covering could provide harvest on into the winter.
Kathy
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AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 8, 2008 4:33 PM Post #5224013
| We are having a dry spell right now: 2.5 weeks with only .34 inches which hardly helps. Yes...we have to take the tractor out with a 50 gal barrel in the bucket full of water to hand water the tender plants...but most survive. One El Nino weather year we had 3 months with virtually no rain. We have water catchment...so we were a bit worried!!!.
Our wildlife consists of feral cats and wild pigs. With encroaching civilization they (pigs) are more visible... But our two dogs must scare them because they stay away from our place. Usually they root up bananas, Ti leaf and gingers...looking for grubs etc. A real pain!!! Nothing better than Kalua pig tho' - wild pig cooked in an underground oven !!!
Yes...growing our own has become a part time obsession with me now...
Running to town! Your DS and family sound like those people we like to stay here!!!
Carol |
garden_mermaid
San Francisco Bay Ar, CA (Zone 9b)
July 10, 2008 5:21 AM Post #5233845
| Sounds lovely. If you find yourself with an surpluss of taro root or breadfruit, please send them to me! I love both, but they are a rare treat here. I had trouble finding breadfruit in the markets on Kauai when I was there. Do the locals hoarde it or hide it? :) |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 10, 2008 5:26 AM Post #5233857
| GM- I think the breadfruit has been replaced my BigMac Double Fries!!! I NEVER see it for sale...while Taro is often for sale at the markets, some supermarkets (NOT Safeway) and many families have a patch. We are going to plant another tree: we have 2 but they have become shaded...tough times may be coming and a good breadfruit tree will be essential!!! Sorry...can't ship out of state...especially to CA!!!
Aloha! |
garden_mermaid
San Francisco Bay Ar, CA (Zone 9b)
July 10, 2008 7:19 AM Post #5234000
| I am soooo jealous and yes I'm aware you can't ship produce to CA...just dreaming of poi and pickled ogo, roasted breadfruit and breadfruit curry, etc, etc.
:D |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 15, 2008 4:23 AM Post #5261072
| Prickle...LOOK...I did it!!!! Ignore the red eyes...there were not from staying up all night doing it!!!
I used cracked wheat, ground flax seed, wheat bran...honey for sugar and walnut oil for the butter. YIPPEE!!!! I made it!!!!
Thanks so much...all of you...for all your help!!
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 15, 2008 5:17 AM Post #5261248
| Now that's a gorgeous loaf (and the bread looks good too :P )
You look so proud. Did it taste good too? |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 15, 2008 5:21 AM Post #5261259
| Oh ...it was YUMMY!!! and SO light. I am amazed!!! |
willowwind
Moundridge, KS (Zone 6a)
July 16, 2008 3:03 AM Post #5266374
| Oh my, how very beautiful. That loaf looks sooo good! Just beware, it's very easy to get spoiled once you've found a good recipe. Even my kids give store bread pretty funny looks now. Enjoy...and it makes the house smell so good too.
Kathy |
AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 16, 2008 4:45 AM Post #5266747
| I think that next time I might make 2 loaves and freeze one. The slices are just HUGE!!!! |
Prickle
Porter, TX (Zone 9a)
July 16, 2008 4:08 PM Post #5268657
| My homemade bread is higher and wider than store bought for sure. And I tend to cut the slices thicker too, although I'm getting better at thinner straighter slices.
We went through a lot of bread at first, lol
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AlohaHoya
Keaau, HI (Zone 11)
July 16, 2008 4:59 PM Post #5268931
| Prickle...I turn the loaf upside down and cut from the bottom...seems easier to control the width of the slice! |
