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Propagation: basic how to on propagation based on my experience

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 19, 2008
8:45 PM

Post #5437679

Greetings to everyone:
I have been asked to start this thread
we came from the coop for propagation supplies http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/863680/

I will do my best to answer any and all questions or requests. All information is based on my personal experience. I will try to check on this thread on a daily basis, but please understand that I have some health issues that may keep me away from time to time. Feel free to dmail me if you need or want to.
A little bit about me. I hold a degree in ornamental horticulture from Oklahoma State University. My major study track was green house production and floriculture. The degree program is a well rounded one that encompasses all aspects of the horticulture field. I ran 2 nurseries in sw florida as well as was in charge of the grounds maintence for all flowers, trees and shrubs at a 27 hole golf course. I have a lot of knowledge but I do admit I don't know everything and I am not afraid to admit it. the picture is an old airial photo of one of the nurseries I ran quite some time ago.
I hope to do a pictured guide on how to prepare cuttings for asexual reproduction of most woody ornamentals and a lot of the plants you see at the local garden center.
Ok now the disclaimer... LOL keep both hands and feet inside the car at all times...
Plant patents: When a grower produces a new sport, cultivar or variation and can prove how they got the results they can apply for a patent on the specific plant. What this means is that the patent holder has the right to collect a fee for every cutting taken from the parent plant that was patented. On the label or tag of a plant it will have a patent number or PPAF - Plant Patent Appled For. From what I have read on the subject the patent is good for 20 years. This is my basic understanding of the process as it applies to propagation by cutting. Most of the pointsettias we all love at Christmas time are patented and they collect so much for every cutting. The patent holder employes school teachers during the summer to travel around to most of the comercial green houses. They then take a measurement of the stock plant and can calculate close to exact how many cuttings the stock plants produce. Patent holder guard their rights vigorously. It figuires out to about 3 cents per cutting. This fee might have changed with inflation.

Thumbnail by Pughbear7
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 19, 2008
11:06 PM

Post #5438412

Really good start Dave. I didn't know you had all of that background. That is wonderful. It is going to be very interesting reading your help to all of us here on Dave's. Thanks so much, and take care of yourself. Don't overdo it.

Jeanette
robcorreia
San Diego, CA
(Zone 10b)

August 19, 2008
11:14 PM

Post #5438442

Dave, what a privilege to learn from you. In advance, thank you for your time and kindness in passing the knowledge along. I'm looking forward to "lesson #1”! : )
Roberta
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 19, 2008
11:38 PM

Post #5438539

Good job, Dave, just be sure to take care of yourself. We can wait awhile if you have a bad day, but you know I have a lot of questions.!!
Debsroots
Northwest, MO
(Zone 5a)

August 19, 2008
11:51 PM

Post #5438593

I am looking forward to learning propagation tips from an experienced plants person.
tigerlily123
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 7b)

August 20, 2008
12:01 AM

Post #5438642

Hi everyone-I just saw this thread, and its a great idea! I saw that Lorraine was asking about coleus cuttings and thought I might share this thread that I did, with pictures for doing coleus cuttings. Actually, there are a lot of plants that can be done exactly the same way.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/596774/

Dave might do this differently, and let us know-but pictures always help me understand something!
garyt
Presque Isle, MI
(Zone 5a)

August 20, 2008
12:24 AM

Post #5438756

Dave Thanks for coming to Dg. Let me be first to ask a question. I have asked this before and never got a responce. How do you propagate Thuja? I will build a mist system if I have to.

Thanks

Gary
davis1676
Disputanta, VA
(Zone 7a)

August 20, 2008
1:11 AM

Post #5438995

Looks like you're drawing a crowd dave, good deal. I'll be trying to figure out some stuff for a makeshift greenhouse (if that's even possible) to help me out this winter. Looks like this is right up your alley. First things first, lets get rocking with rooting!

tigerlily, pictures definitely help me to "see" better, I'm very concrete. Good stuff. thanks for the link.
Lorraine you've got all all those coleus cuttings & since I'm learning the right way to root, you may need to slip me a few in with the pot pkgs your sending my way. ;~)
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 20, 2008
1:42 AM

Post #5439213

They will be on their way, Missy.!!! These things grow a foot a day, I swear.!!! I snip and then it's only bigger, so have plenty.!!!

I want to know what will root in the bubbler. Poor Dave, he'shad a hard day today and think wht he's gonna do when he sees all these questions! lol !1 I say, let's keep him busy!
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

August 20, 2008
4:47 PM

Post #5441913

Thanks Dave, looking forward to learning from you!

Speaking of misters, I found these at Walmart in the fan department am am very pleased!! http://www.mistymate.com/category-s/2.htm I just put the CoolPatio 12 which is is 22 feet of mistline with 12 misters and 10' supply line in my greenhouse--will be using this for cuttings I plan to take. I've been using the 6 outside just to keep my transplants hydrated and even with the wind and all, it works great, even just turning them on for a bit in the hot parts of the day. No hubby needed, I did this myself, AND it carries a 4 year warranty.

I started with another company's mistline that I attached to my front porch awning, earlier this summer--now I can happily pot away in the 90+ weather on my patio and my brugs and plants can still grow (most stop growing at 90 deg, correct?) My brugs are certainly the happiest-well me too, cuz I HATE hot weather!!

If I were y'all, I'd run, not walk to Wallyworld before they take them away to put out Christmas!
Vi (not "Viola" please!)
Cordeledawg
Cordele, GA
(Zone 8a)

August 20, 2008
6:01 PM

Post #5442207

Vi, do you have your mister on a timer?
Deborah
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 20, 2008
10:08 PM

Post #5443294

Viola were these pvc with joints and ocnnecters? Does the supply line hook up to a regular faucet/hose? Sounds like a good idea,

Jeanette
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

August 20, 2008
11:26 PM

Post #5443611

Y'all better call me Vi, lol, or I ain't talkin. I'm old enough but don't wanna sound like someone's old Aunt Viola!

Just got back from WallyWorld with a friend who had to get some after basking in the cooling mist along my porch. Prices are cheaper there than on the website for sure--the 17 was $34 (just 1 left) the 12 was around $24 and the 6 was $16! These are 1/4" lines (hose) with plastic connectors surrounding the mist nozzels which allow you to point the nozzels as you need them. Yes, it does connect directly to any water hose. Once you uncoil the hose, you screw in the brass nozzels 3 at a time until done (follow the directions). Hey, with a 4 year warranty, isn't it worth the money?? I will take the outside ones down for the winter however, don't want to tempt fate...

Since I work at home, I haven't been using a timer, but bought one for the Greenhouse. I found a Melnor Electronic Aqua TImer (#3015) (must be last year's model because it looks like #3010 on the site http://www.melnor.com/products-aquatimers.php) sale at Home Depot for $29. This one is for low pressure drip and soaker hoses, so should be fine--you barely need to turn the water for the mister hoses unless you want to be soaked, so should work ok. This one allows programable settings 3X a day for up to 7 days--it runs on 1- 9 volt battery.

Also got some builder's sand and ready to make a good sized propagation table, as my friend has had much success with his--he just needed a new mister system--his pvc cracked over the winter.

If I can find my dang camera transfer cord, I'll show my happy brugs.
Cordeledawg
Cordele, GA
(Zone 8a)

August 20, 2008
11:56 PM

Post #5443770

This is an extremely interesting tutorial. Thanks everyone!
Kittylover
Carrollton, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 21, 2008
12:41 AM

Post #5444071

Vi - That mister sounds interesting - I'll have to see if my walmart has them - I just ordered a couple ooze tubes - hold 40 gal - drips like a soaker hose - water for 2-3 weeks w/out refilling

Dave really looking forward to your words of wisdom - I've been gardening a while - but a lot has been learn as you go - I have a three year old tropical pool garden that takes most of my time& energy - when that is eventually done - I want to redo the front - actually with your help with cuttings - I won't have to wait to start on the front - I have small gardenia bushes that have been great and would like to have a bunch of them in the front where there are windows - I also want little gem Magnolia trees -- just dove in head first ordering bulbs for back yard

Question - The beds seem to have compacted - I need to rearrange my bog bed - growth was uneven - wetness was uneven - led to uneven growth - huge her - tiny there - the ooze tubes should fix that - I was going to mount them at the back of the beds - to hide them some - Ken(AM Leonard) told me they are pretty ugly- but I have some new plants - White ginger, cannas that are going to be more picky

Anyway I need to add topsoil to bring raised bed back up - I was going to add watersorb crystals about 2 in down - anything else for my bog bed?
I was also going to add some topsoil to under the tree - not by the trunk - Can I shortcut by putting some down first - then the bone meal, then bulbs (mini allium)- then cover with 2-3 inches of topsoil - they are shallow planted bulbs - anything else/different you would do? should I add more soil allowing for the settling?

I deeply appreciate all your help - most of the time I will probably follow thread - gleaning what I can use, hehe- I guess you call that a lurker - I'll pop in now and then with a question - these are my immediate concerns/projects

Thanks,
Esther
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 21, 2008
12:51 AM

Post #5444133

Hi everyone: I realize I was suposed to chat about soils but a few of you have asked about building a cold frame/ green house (GH).
Ok they can be as elaborate as you would like or just a simple stick frame structure covered with Poly (in the paint supplies at wally world) a thick plastic sheet is advisable. You can buy 3 year product from several suppliers on line. I can point you in their direction, but I am going to stick to this because I am cheap. I prefer to buy out of home depots discount bin in the lumber department. Usually I can buy 2x4 - 4 ft long for 51 cents each.
I am going to base this on a 4ft by 4 ft and 4 ft tall with as many shelves you would like. But keep in mind the higher the stucture the possability for more cold to infiltrate is there. build a basic square out of the 2x4 run one 2x4 in the middle of the 4x4 square. so you will star with 3 - 2x4 - 4ft long on thier side and nail the outside edge to the end of the self base boards. see the attached scan. Make 3 of these.

Thumbnail by Pughbear7
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 21, 2008
1:07 AM

Post #5444254

Ok now lay the 4 ft shelves on their side and attach one 2x4 x 4ft to the outside corner of one shelf. repeat all the way around the 1st shelf.
lay the shelf on its side and add the second shelf the same way the 1st shelf is attached. finally do the third shelf. I prefer a shelf instead of on the ground as it helps air prune the roots of any plants that may want to root out of their tray. It is not important to keep the boards on the face or the side of the shelf, its what looks best to you.
I realize there is wasted space on the shelves but getting 4 foot boards you usually can get one cut per board from the local lumber yard. I recomend pressure treated wood as we are dealing with soils and water. The pressure treated wood will last longer than staight pine boards. see attached scan

Thumbnail by Pughbear7
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 21, 2008
1:19 AM

Post #5444310

Ok now you will want to cover the 3 sides and the roof of the cold frame. I would start on the front upright facing board and wrap the poly around the structure. ending on the other facing upright board. Next you will want to build a roof. I would over lap the top down the edges forming a seal over the sides to keep unwanted moisture as well as extra seal over the upper side.
Front door. 1" x 2" 4ft long 4 pieces
2 - small frontal support brace flat "T" shaped
4- small front suport brace flat "L" shaped
3 - small hinges
wrap plastic around the door so that all edges are on the back side of the door
see attached drawing. sorry about the crude drawing.

Thumbnail by Pughbear7
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 21, 2008
1:25 AM

Post #5444350

Ok now to set a second piece of polly over the framing. Look for a batting tape or woven polly strap about 2" wide. Maybe a strap used to repair lawn chairs. I am not sure what is available in your town. I will make an effort to look this weekend to see what I can find.
Ok now questions I am sure I have completely confused everyone. Oh yea a simple latch hook should work for the door closeing. Sorry I could not be clearer.
Dave
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 21, 2008
4:44 PM

Post #5447286

Hey, bet I can do that!!!
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 21, 2008
7:30 PM

Post #5448071

Hi Everyone:
Ok would you like to hear about a home made green house or soil mixes or both and in what order???
Has everyone read the 1st part of the propagation from the germ co-op? Do You want me to rework it and go step by step? I am planning to do pictures and step by step this next week, so these questions may be premature.
Bubblers / Aeroponics:
It is the suspention of cuttings in an aerated water supply. This hinges on hydroponics. There are a lot of sites dedicated to this as both a business and a hobby. Virtually anything that can be rooted in soil can be done in water. The system I have and plan to get out and see how I do in the warmer weather. I would start with an easy to root item such as coleus, mexican heather,sweet potatoe vine. I was instructed to use "olivia's cloning gell along with a starter fertilizer in the water mix. The system is basically a 3 gallon bucket with the lid having 2" holes ut out in a circular pattern covering the lid. A round strofoamish material is slit into the middle with a small whole in the center to hold the cutting. Air is suoolied from a fish aqarium pump through aquarium tubing into a 3" long air stone. Walter needs to be added to the bucket from time to time to keep the cuttings in the water mix. Once roots have formed you then plant the cutting in soil. I will get the exact name and formulation for you on my next post. which will most likely be either tonight or saturday, as I am having a steriod shot in my neck to hopefully make the pain go away (for those who don't know its a long long story).
Planting and transplanting:
The rule of thumb is to move any plant that either is pot bound or ready to move to a new home. I like to start with 4" pots and then go up 2" each time the plant gets "bumped up".
Container sizing:
A 6" pot can be called a gallon, trade gallon, #1 or 6". There are several different sizes in the 6" range. some smaller some shorter (azalea pot). The federal government has made a ruling that nursery containers are not to be called a gallon. Because there are so many different sizes and few hold a true gallon of soil. Your tax dollars at work. LOL
10" container, also known as a #3, 3 gallon (oops can't call it a gallon) and I think a short 10" is know as a bulb pan in the florist trade.
Beyond that it goes #5, #7, #10, #15 and so on.
I hope this helps. Any questions, coments??
Dave
Kittylover
Carrollton, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 21, 2008
7:37 PM

Post #5448098

I had a question posted earlier - if you have time [quote] Dave really looking forward to your words of wisdom - I've been gardening a while - but a lot has been learn as you go - I have a three year old tropical pool garden that takes most of my time& energy - when that is eventually done - I want to redo the front - actually with your help with cuttings - I won't have to wait to start on the front - I have small gardenia bushes that have been great and would like to have a bunch of them in the front where there are windows - I also want little gem Magnolia trees -- just dove in head first ordering bulbs for back yard

Question - The beds seem to have compacted - I need to rearrange my bog bed - growth was uneven - wetness was uneven - led to uneven growth - huge her - tiny there - the ooze tubes should fix that - I was going to mount them at the back of the beds - to hide them some - Ken(AM Leonard) told me they are pretty ugly- but I have some new plants - White ginger, cannas that are going to be more picky

Anyway I need to add topsoil to bring raised bed back up - I was going to add watersorb crystals about 2 in down - anything else for my bog bed?
I was also going to add some topsoil to under the tree - not by the trunk - Can I shortcut by putting some down first - then the bone meal, then bulbs (mini allium)- then cover with 2-3 inches of topsoil - they are shallow planted bulbs - anything else/different you would do? should I add more soil allowing for the settling?

I deeply appreciate all your help - most of the time I will probably follow thread - gleaning what I can use, hehe- I guess you call that a lurker - I'll pop in now and then with a question - these are my immediate concerns/projects
[/quote]
Thanks,
Kitty
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

August 21, 2008
7:42 PM

Post #5448123

This just gets better every day--thanks again, Dave.

Are you saying that you "float" a piece of styrofoam on the water in the bucket? Duh, why didn't I think of that? Can we use some dipngrow in it instead?

I'm hoping to try to root Clematis before it gets too late. Are they too tricky or the wrong time?
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 21, 2008
10:11 PM

Post #5448615

Styrofoam!!! I've tried everything. Course I'll never find any styrofoam now!
robcorreia
San Diego, CA
(Zone 10b)

August 21, 2008
10:34 PM

Post #5448713

Dave,
I root most of my cuttings in water. What is the advantage of a bubbler system over just plain water? I always wondered...
Thanks!
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 22, 2008
3:12 AM

Post #5450162

Ok, I went to Wallyworld, got styrofoam, and guess what. IT WORKS. Thank you David!!!!! Got all my cuttings little leaves outside the water.!! Can't believe after thinking about what to use, I never thought of styrofoam. This thread has already helped!! yipee

Rob, Dave will be able to actually tell you, but I think it has something to do with oxygen?
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 22, 2008
5:42 AM

Post #5450753

OK Lorraine, Dave needed to take a break so it sounds like you got it. You tell me am I to cut a circle out of the styrofoam and place it in the 2" circles cut out of the lid of the bucket? Then put a hole in the styrofoam to hold the cuttings? Is that right? How thick of styrofoam did you get at Wallies?

Dave, I think Lorraine is out there watching for the roots. Can you answer my question? Thanks.

BTW Lorraine, did you dip your cuttings first? In what? hee hee (Just an inside joke)

Jeanette
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

August 22, 2008
1:01 PM

Post #5451380

Rob, other perks for bubbling: increased humidity & no need to change the water.
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 22, 2008
4:32 PM

Post #5452449

I did it probably wrong, but it's working. I had to get the stuff that was about 2 inches thick and 12 inches long and cut it down to about a half inch thick. I just left the length and punched holes in it with a pencil and dropped the stems in and let er go. I put a hole about every inch or so. The leaves are close together, but the stems are fine.

It's floating, so I guess it's working! I actually do have some roots, but that is from before I got the styrofoam. I j ust threw some coleus cuttings in, leaves and all floating around. They hadn't started to rot yet.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 22, 2008
4:44 PM

Post #5452507

Rpb yes you can float strofoam in the bucket you may want to do somethink like take a lid and cut out circles in it ti space the cuttings. Just insert the strofoam in the circles. I have found 5 gallon buckets at home depot but I am sure they would have something to make it work at wally world. Maybe in the house cleaning area. Yes the oxygen helps the cuttings form roots and keeps them from drying out or so I have read it some where. I would also add 3 - 6 teaspoons of hydrogen peroxide to the water. I read a thread where they were using it and it increased the root output. I am sure it has to do with chemical reaction of the plants, water and peroxide.
I have not gotten my system to work for me but in all fairness it was november in a drafty house and we lost power for 6 days so that did not help. I am hopeing to get mine going next week. I will be stuck off line for a few days due to having to get my system fixed. My niece dloaded some game and its wreaking avock on the whole thing.
Also I have to go oversee my brother in law on getting a rental property ready to rent. I think he just likes my company. I know he won't let me do anything because he has already told me he is going to do that to me.
Vi I will tell him you said hi...
Kitty lover:
Yes you can build up the bead and place the bulbs where you wany to to save time and energy. Its a smart way to go about it. Some compost might be good to add in as well on your bed. We have a product called back to nature composted cotton seed burrs.
http://www.backtonaturecompost.com/cbc.html
It works well at both helping to raise the organic composition as well as here in oklahoma we have heavy clays so it helps loosen it up and make it mor plant friendly.
if I am understanding you on the tree issue? You want to add soil under the tree to build up the area arround it to plant bulbs there? If this is to eliminate surface roots from the tree the roots shoud re surface. I would tend to avoid covering surface roots because its one of the tree's ways to absorb oxygen and air. I have a similar issue with our new house. our oak tree is huge and has some surface roots. we are planning on planting arround the tree and in the front of a bank of azaleas. We want to get a full range of color all year. If I don't have the idea correct please let me know what I have wrong.
I am not 100% today as I had a steriod injection in my neck and sedation that has my brain a little fuzzy. Fuzzy wuzzy waz a bear fuzzy wuzzy... lol I will try to respond to questions throughout the day today
Dave
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 22, 2008
4:46 PM

Post #5452519

Good job Lorraine.
I am not sure how to advise on removal without harming the roots. Maybe a slit up to the hols so you can slide it out through the slit.
Dave
Lala_Jane
North West, OH
(Zone 5b)

August 22, 2008
7:32 PM

Post #5453265

Great thread, I am engrossed. But I'm afraid I'm a bit like Tigerlily and could reeeeally use some pictures. Can one of you styromfoam-bubbler people post a few pics of your set up?
Azalea
Jonesboro, GA
(Zone 7b)

August 22, 2008
7:37 PM

Post #5453279

Just an observation here - seems like when the roots get full, they would easily break off unless you take them out of the styrofoam while they are small. I have used chicken wire over the top of a bucket for the same effect to keep cuttings straight. Also, you can see the root growth.
tigerlily123
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 7b)

August 22, 2008
8:08 PM

Post #5453355

Out of curiousity-why would one want to do the bubbler system to root most plants that root fast and easily in a soiless medium? the benefits to rooting in a soiless medium are that that the roots are superior-they are stronger than those done in water, no trying to get the roots out of the styrofoam (? Not sure that I even understand the system) and once you stick the cutting-you can leave it alone for even 2 months before having to move it up to a larger pot ( i have left liner sheets filled with rooted cuttings for that long).
I can see the humidity factor from the water-but I never put my cuttings under a mister-I just water the soil they are in once a day and maybe hit the leaves with water twice a day. Its the temp of the soil that really promotes root growth (assuming the soil stays moist enough until the cutting starts to root)

Anyway I was just curious...enlighten me!! lol :)
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 22, 2008
8:23 PM

Post #5453435

Hi I am looking for my camera. As A lot of you know we moved last month and finding anything is like a needle in a hay stack. The standard answer is its in a box in the garage... LOL The starter fertilize I refered to earlier is called Jump start and I got it from Advanced nutrientsc. com. I am in no way recomending this company but they seem knowledgable and eager to help. It is a fomulation ofthiamine mononitrate, fulvic acid, humic acid and sea weed extract. I have a huge phamplet I down loaded off the internet that I plan to reread and share its tips.
In a nut shell I believe these chemicals, fertilizers and/or any of this stuff will help. The jump start can be applied as a foliar as well as mixed into the water in the tank.
I will go further into detail on how to properly build a system like lorraine has started using stuff she has at home. I f you would like me to lay it out with pictures and details please let me know. I realize this has moved from soil based propagation to a more hydroponic style. Its just what works for you. I am planning to set my system up and try several different plants to see which works best.
I plan to try azalea, Carolina jasmine (yellow) - Gelsemium sempervirens, rose of sharon - Hibiscus syriacus, crape myrtle - Lagastromia indica, barberry - Berberis thunbergii , foster's holly - Ilex spp, burford holly, forsythia(should be easy), abelia grandiflora, tropical bleeding heart vine, Cats whiskers, sweet potatoe vine. I relize some of these are among the easier things to root but I want to give the system a good range of plants to try. Pictures will follow as I will find the camera this weekend.
This may be my last post for a few days as I have some things I must take care of, along with the computer needing to go in for a check up.
Please let me know who wants the aeroponics discussion. If its only a few people I will have to do it one on one or another thread at a later date.
Here is a pic of my greenhouse last june before we moved I will show pics soon of the new place ment and bench construction.
Please do not hesatate to ask questions. The only dumb question is the one not asked. We all have to start some where. Please let me know on the aeroponics
Dave

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 22, 2008
8:26 PM

Post #5453449

Tiger lilly excelent point. I have had liners sitting for over a year just because the space was needed for other quicker crops. You will by pass a transplant shock coming out of the aeroponics system. But I believe an anti wilt will help in the hotest part of the summer.
Dave
Kittylover
Carrollton, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 22, 2008
11:25 PM

Post #5454164

Thanks Dave - no surface tree roots - just compacted soil - I'm not going to plant real close to the trunk - don't want to mess up the tree - It's a Live Oak - I have two bird feeders hanging from it - have tried a couple things in this spot hoping the alliums will do ok - Glad I don't have to do a lot of unnnecessary digging lol - I ordered 60 roseum alliums - In my condition - I must be trying to do myself in - hehe - you know how it goes - they were cheap - I'm a crammer - lol - I also ordered some allium nectarscordum and allium schuberti for other locations - gonna use a tall bulb planter for them -

Thanks again
Kitty
tigerlily123
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 7b)

August 22, 2008
11:43 PM

Post #5454229

Thanks Dave for the answer-but just to clearify-and forgive me, I am really tired so a bit slow on the uptake (!)-but are you saying that there is a transplant shock with cuttings rooted in soil but not in water? Or the opposite?
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

August 23, 2008
12:21 AM

Post #5454368

Dave, thanks for remembering me to your B-I-L ;>}

Actually, mine is here this weekend (up from S. Fl.) to help me build a propogation system using builder's sand and perhaps a mix of sand & peat (I've heard that peat holds too much water)? I got 4 - 5" hi x 12' square plastic bins and wonder how much drainage holes they need. Also, is it best to put them on a table ( vinyl covered solid wood ok?) that you can walk around? I'm thinking that once filled with the heavy sand I won't want to move them. Will this be ok for an unheated greenhouse? Trying woody cuttings like confederate jasmine, winter honeysuckle & pittosporum. These bins will be under the mister system as well.

It's a wonder you can keep up with all of us!
Vi
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 23, 2008
12:26 AM

Post #5454386

About taking the stems with roots out of the styrofoam. I thought I would just cut the styrofoam, won't need it anymore. Would that work? Just have to be really careful. Some of the holes I made pretty big because the leaves I left on were big enough to they didn't slip thru the hole. I should be able to take the styro off pretty easily. Let's hope!! I took a couple pictures of my styrofoam, but don't know if I want ya'll to see it or not! As David said, stuff from around the house. lol

Okay, here are a couple pieces. These I did last night, but am doing some better now that I've kind of figured it out. So, don't laugh!!

Thumbnail by LorraineR
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 23, 2008
12:50 AM

Post #5454484

Dave, I really find the aeroponics more fascinating than the hydroponics. Maybe because I have never figured out how it works so well even tho I have seen it in progress. Last winter I tried hydroponics with a couple of tomato plants in my kitchen but they got so big I had to take them apart when spring came on. I did actually have a couple of tomatoes on them.

Jeanette
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 23, 2008
1:00 AM

Post #5454525

That is great Lorraine. To answer you gals question, why use styrofoam, because when the water gets lower due to evaporation or usage by the plants, the roots are still in water this way. Floating happily around like Lorraine shows. And, I don't know how much it would cost to buy the styro, but I would imagine you could get it in sheets at craft shops, or I know there are places that sell all kinds of it and all widths. I just don't remember where you would look in the yellow pages for it. And, to get to what I was going to say, I would just break the foam off of the plant.

Good picture Lorraine.

Jeanette
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 23, 2008
3:06 AM

Post #5455137

I bought that, then went outside today and found a box that had been packed using styrofoam and it was still in there!!! I wonder if you could cut the bottoms out of styro. cups and use it. Could cut about a 1/4 or 1/2 up from the bottom, then the tops would be protected?

You know what else would work. You know those little styrofoam coolers!!! They are only a couple bucks and you could cut a bunch of pieces!
p1mkw
Danville, IN
(Zone 5b)

August 23, 2008
3:53 AM

Post #5455336

On the styrofoam -- how about the disposable plates? You could get a bunch of smaller circles from one of the dinner plates. Or maybe they wouldn't be heavy enough to support the plants? Just a thought.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 23, 2008
5:34 AM

Post #5455707

You guys are on a roll. I don't know if they would fill with water thru the holes. The plates and cups. I think they might be too thin to keep the water out. But, the ideas are great. I love the coffee cups. As long as there is no movement in the water they might work. Best thing is to try them. Now the styrofoam coolers are thicker. Also, this is really getting crazy, but if yu were to take a piece of the thicker foam and put it in the bread slicer things, you know for the bread machine slices, using an electric knife to cut it the thickness you want. LOL Actually, if you were to cut the foam at all I think the electric knife would be the best thing no matter what kind of foam, or how thick etc.

I am going to have to show you something I tried. Here are a couple of pictures. What they are, I took a glass bowl about 8 inches across and put expanded clay balls in it. I use them in hydroponics. Should say, first I soak the clay balls overnight in water. Then I put these cuttings in there, not deep, and add about a half to an inch of water. I just took 3 coleuses out that I had in there and planted them in soil. One had roots about the size of a ping pong ball. I left them in there too long 'cause I didn't know what I wanted to do with them.

But, you can see that they are looking good. I took these pictures about an hour after I put them in there. I just went in and looked and they looked just as good but when I touched the top flower it fell off. It had not wilted at all but I should not have left either flower on it. But all of the cuttings look just as good as when I put them in there. They get the moisture from the clay balls. Not in water. So they don't rot. Here they are.

Sorry I should not have sent this one. It was the last one I took and getting dark outside. They are next to a window. Jeanette

Thumbnail by Jnette
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 23, 2008
5:38 AM

Post #5455713

Ok, here is another one. Sorry I can't seem to look at these and pick the best. I should have edited them before I tried this. Here is another one. It is a little bit clearer.

Jeanette

Thumbnail by Jnette
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 23, 2008
5:50 AM

Post #5455726

I was looking for my messages. They took a long time getting to this forum. So I did an edit here. Just ignore it.

BTW, these cuttings are Thunbergia. A couple are the Sky Blue Florabundas. Very pretty. I haven't started them this way before so it will be interesting.

I am sorry I didn't take a picture of the coleus with the roots so big. They had grown around and attached to a lot of the clay balls so I just planted it that way. It would have been a good picture. Maybe tomorrow I will unplant it and wash it off and take a picture of it for you. LOL

Jeanette


This message was edited Aug 22, 2008 10:12 PM
Lulabelle1
East Peoria, IL
(Zone 5a)

August 23, 2008
11:09 AM

Post #5455968

Hello to all.
I just found this thread and want to thank Pughbear for sharing his knowledge. I noticed that you mentioned rooting Rose of Sharon. This is one that my DH has asked if I can root so I'll be watching. I've also wanted to root Hydrangea. I have had only limited luck with these. I have not tried the water methods. I can't think of what you call it, but basically using a rooting hormone and putting in a rooting medium.

My initial question concerns timing. I thought that I read that cuttings should be taken early in the spring when the plant is putting off new growth.





This message was edited Aug 23, 2008 6:12 AM
davis1676
Disputanta, VA
(Zone 7a)

August 23, 2008
12:23 PM

Post #5456134

Hope you're feeling better dave. I don't have anything needed to set up for hydro or aeroponics. If one of these rooting methods is cheaper &/or less time consuming, with better results, I'm for it. I've been rooting things in vases of water for 50 yrs at least. I like watching the roots develop. I would like to know how you figure out which cuttings benefit from a stem scrape & not sure where on the stem it should be scraped.
I know this is crazy for you, addressing all our questions with all of us using (or wanting to try) different rooting methods. I appreciate you for doing this Dave.
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

August 23, 2008
2:20 PM

Post #5456506

Lulabelle,

Hydrangeas are fairly easy to prop. The easiest method is layering by bending a branch down and putting a rock or brick over it to make contact with the soil (wounding the place of contact should speed the process up). Sticking a cutting in a pot of good potting soil and setting it in a semi-shady location should do the trick but the cutting should be on semi-hard growth - never tender shoots.

Rose of Sharon should be on hard wood too and is fairly easy to get to root. It sounds like you may be taking your cuttings too early in the season.
Lulabelle1
East Peoria, IL
(Zone 5a)

August 23, 2008
3:31 PM

Post #5456800

Would I be able to get a cutting from Rose of Sharon at this time of year? I have been successful with the brick method. But once I cut off the rooted branch, it died. I have given up. I guess I'll just try harder. THANKS, Anne
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

August 23, 2008
5:35 PM

Post #5457267

I think this time of year would be good for taking cuttings of Rose of Sharon (althea) and hydrangea. I took several cuttings of a double pink althea at our last house. I think I had about 18 cuttings and all took. I may have lost a couple when I finally put them in the ground the next year at our new house. At the same time I took rose cuttings and brugmansias and put them in the same pot and they are all growing together today.

Don't ever give up on propagating. Try it again and again until you get good at it. I think my mistakes when I began was keeping the soil too wet and using garden soil instead of a good potting soil or other potting medium. Learn from your mistakes. There are lots of good books on the subject. Ken Druse has an excellent book if you want to pay a pretty penny.

Thumbnail by hcmcdole
Click the image for an enlarged view.

davis1676
Disputanta, VA
(Zone 7a)

August 23, 2008
6:16 PM

Post #5457425

If I take my cuttings now & root them, is there anyway I could put these in the ground by winter. I'm talking about November basically. It usually isn't too cold here yet. The ones I have rooted & am getting ready to pot, would you wait till late fall to plant these too? I appreciate all advice.
Azalea
Jonesboro, GA
(Zone 7b)

August 23, 2008
6:24 PM

Post #5457448

As far as Althea, Rose of sharon - I get hundreds of seedlings that come up around my momma plant - or you can gather the dried seed pods soon and plant them. They grow really fast and you should have a plant blooming size in a couple of years. Of course cuttings would speed this up a bit.
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

August 23, 2008
9:16 PM

Post #5458075

I would probably put them in a cool garage for winter or a cold frame. I kept mine in a basement for the first winter. Put half indoors and half outdoors for an experiment.

Azalea, I agree on seedlings from althea being so plentiful (weedy if you ask me) that it doesn't make sense to take cuttings but the double one has had very few seedlings. I think I've seen 3 to 6 over the past 3 years so cuttings are the only way to speed the process up on this one. I'm not even sure what the seedlings are going to look like because they have not bloomed and are still quite small due to our serious droughts over the last 3 years.
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 24, 2008
9:04 PM

Post #5462340

I can see it now, an article on "50 kinds of styrofoam to use in a bubbler" If you try the plates, let me know how it works.

I know to cut rootings from some plants, it should be in fall, and then rooted and put back out in spring. Course I'm in Texas, so longer summers and not as much winter. But I know Brugs and things are cut back in fall, and the cuttings rooted.

I asked about the hydrangeas,
they said if you do the putting the branch on the ground, you aren't supposed to "cut it loose" till the next spring. Course this was some opinions, so I guess it might just depend on where you live.

Maybe just wait until the last possible minute, then bring the rooting inside?

Kittylover
Carrollton, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 24, 2008
9:07 PM

Post #5462348

I know that with honeysuckle and others that will root when on the ground - you just don't cut from mother plant until you have good roots on the branch
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 24, 2008
11:09 PM

Post #5462808

Good to know. It's hard to leave them there when they look so healthy.!!! I've got some rooted hyd. and can't hardly stand it I want to take them up so bad.

Where's Dave? He's been doing too much, we're gonna have to fuss at him!!!
Azalea
Jonesboro, GA
(Zone 7b)

August 24, 2008
11:30 PM

Post #5462895

Depending on your weather conditions, if they get enough water, I find that they will root in just a couple of months - then I pot them up til better established. I'm impatient too and often carefully dig them up to check on the roots.
My DH loves to tell how when we had our first veggie garden, I would dig up the little corn I planted to check on the roots!
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 24, 2008
11:38 PM

Post #5462930

Can't tell you how many times I've done the same thing.!!! Just can't believe something I planted is actually getting roots! lol
Kittylover
Carrollton, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 25, 2008
1:17 AM

Post #5463366

I think these banana trees are trying to root to china - I' scared they're gonna push my other plants out - dig out a pup - 2 wks there's another one - last one I dug and dug - it broke off about a foot down - 2 wks later - another one AWKT
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 25, 2008
2:02 AM

Post #5463573

I've got some Elephant ears that are driving me nuts. They've gotten so big they are hanging all the way over the walkway, can't keep them staked cause they are so heavy. Moved them last year, bulb was 2 ft. wide, cut it in half. The 2 pieces grow twice as big as the one. Gotta get it moved, but will have to wait till it dies down and then get a bulldozer I guess.!!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 25, 2008
4:41 AM

Post #5464110

You guys are just bragging. Everything grows big in Texas??? LOL

Jeanette
Kittylover
Carrollton, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 25, 2008
4:12 PM

Post #5465520

It does - really - why you think we all came here!!! haha
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 25, 2008
5:03 PM

Post #5465751

Well, even at that, you can have it.

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 25, 2008
9:05 PM

Post #5466709

Greetings:
Sorry for the silence. I had to go to OKC to take care of some business this last weekend. Rental property need I say any more? I just play forman and let my relatives do the work.
Ok question on stress of the cuttings. The most stress would probably be from the aeroponics because the plantlett has to get used to working for its moisture. You can stress any cutting by not keeping it moist. Its a fine line when you are coming out of the water or prop tray. because you need to make the plants work for their water to grow more roots but you also need to make sure the cell does not dry out and put the cutting into stress.
An old question from way up the thread. I remembered it when I was traveling this weekend. Thuja - arborvitae... Smi hard wood cuttins under mist or thats what the book says. I have never tried to root them. You may want to try several different ways. Use one of the leaf plateletts also a tip cutting just play with it. I would use as strong a rooting hormone as you can get. If possable try the bent stem and brick method at the base of the tree. I am not sure if that is possable because of the stout branches. please let us know how it works for you.
Lorraine: I love the inventaveness and adventure you seem to have. You mak need to stack some of the thinner styrofoam together to get it strong enough to float. You have a great idea in breaking them off and just carefully removing the SF from around the plant.
Lulabelle: Timing just has to do with the type of cutting you take the plants mode its in and how soon cold weather will be on you. I try to count back 6 to 8 weeks because I have an enclosed greenhouse that gives me a longer growing season. you will want to have you cuttings shaded from the heat of the sun but in high light areas. I use a shading material that gives me about 25% shade and it works well for me. I would not let anything keep you from trying cuttings
hcmcdole your point about keep going and try everything is great. We each have a specail mico climate which we work in. no 2 areas are ever alike. if the cutting fails to root try another one. I would not try to root directly in the soil you had a failure in except if you have something you know is easy and are willing to risk the loss. I have some mints and some other things that root like there is no tomorrow. I use it on them, I realize this goes against everything the books and teachers will tell you. My wife is an accountant and she watches every penny. so I have to stretch as much as I can. i have been know to bag it all up and use it on transplants that I am willing to risk.
Why do I say risk? All soils have diseases in them just waiting for optimum conditions to take hold. a good fungicide drench will help keep them in check on the older soil. Also the soils may need to be refertilized if they have been watered for a long time. Water leaches out the nutrients in the soils. I like Osmocote and Nutricote. Nutricote is a small greyish pelitized fertilizer sold as dynamite at home depot. They both work well for most conditions. The southern states that stay hot longer and don't get too cold will use the slow release faster than the northern states. so the 4 month's osmocote will not last the whole 4 month's. watch your plants they will let you know when its time.
Davis: Scraping the cutting is to provide a larger surface for poots to form. I usually do it at the node when I am removing the leaves and little leaves trying to form branches. As far as cheapest rooting system I would have to say soil based propagation wins hands down. You can reuse the pots from the annuals you buy in the spring to pretty up the flower beds. your only expenses are soil, rooting hormone, water and time. You don't have to have an elaborate mist system just a water breaker to break up the water to a mine spray and a garden hose. I prefer a wand with a breaker attached. Mine was 6 bucks (I think) from home depot. I am going to discuss the cost of the aeroponics sytem as well as soil based propagation.
Tomorrow I will be doing the picture soil based propagation as well as some pics of my own green house.
I hope this helped. If I missed any questions please ask again and I will try to answer them.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 25, 2008
10:42 PM

Post #5467121

You are right about Osmocote Dave My fuchsias have been in it just about 3 1/2 months and all of a sudden one of them quit producing buds. Just stopped. I've never seen that happen because normally I use triple 20 (Peters) with it and I didn't this year, thinking the Osmocote would work.

In our area I couldn't find the Dynamite at HD. I used it last year and had some left over, but after I got home I was told that Fred Meyer carries it out here on the West coast. They are 80 miles from me. I don't get down there often. Also, HD quit carrying Superthrive. The small hydroponic stores carry it and it runs cheaper in a couple but not all.

Jeanette
robcorreia
San Diego, CA
(Zone 10b)

August 25, 2008
11:38 PM

Post #5467374

Dave:

I always hear that "roots formed in water are not as strong as roots formed in soil". I have been successful with both methods though...What is your take on this? Truth, or old wives tales?

Thanks,
Roberta
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 26, 2008
2:19 AM

Post #5468195

Roberta, you asked my question. I've heard that too, and have been confused!
Azalea
Jonesboro, GA
(Zone 7b)

August 26, 2008
5:13 AM

Post #5468757

I find that "water roots" tend to break off more easily.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 26, 2008
11:06 PM

Post #5471576

I prefer a planting medium over water hands down. I have yet to get the aeroponics to work for me but I also have not tried it in warm conditions. So I am going to try to set mine up with a bunch of different plants both hardwood and softwood cuttings. I am shure It will work this time as it was a bit cool and a lower light area. I believe the failure was due to conditions and errors on my part, but hey thats how we learn. I would rather have some issues than everything work and Not know what I did to make it work, if that makes sense. I got all the pics croped and labeled I hope to have it all ready to post either later tonight or tomorrow. sorry for the delay.
Dave
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

August 27, 2008
12:29 AM

Post #5471936

Dave, Thanks for posting this thread, I have been entranced by all the posts for the past 1/2 hour or so. Can you please tell me if i can root chocolate vines ( akebia quinata)with the aeroponic system, also I would be interested in rooting mandevilla and pandorea vines. Any infor you could offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much, Ibartoo
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 27, 2008
6:08 AM

Post #5473149

Ibartoo:
I would try everything. I do know mandevilla can be done. and I am not sure on the chocolate vine. It sound interesting though. I am sure it can be done the question is at what success rate. The listing in DG has it listed as a brick air layer method. You might try a small pot of soil next to the plant and pin down a runner in the pot. I would do all the methods. Aeroponics, growing media propagation and brick air layer method. Some one called the brick metod earlier in this thread and I thought its a fitting mental image. I love it.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 27, 2008
6:10 AM

Post #5473151

Lorraine you may want to increase the depth of your water and the number of air stones you are using. I found out that the air attaches to the chemicals in the water and the more bubbles the better the atachment and rooting success.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 28, 2008
4:50 AM

Post #5477190

Can't remember Dave, did you suggest to Lorraine to use a shot of Peroxide in the water? Guess I'm just a firm believer in it.

Jeanette
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

August 28, 2008
1:05 PM

Post #5477912

I may have missed the answer to these questions already, but can you use a weak miracle grow solution to root in, and what type of rooting hormone do you use? I have never used anything more than willow water and rootone. Also, would an aquarium heater work well as a heat source? I believe my heat mat has died a slow death over this summer. Thanks for your help. Ibartoo
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
2:46 PM

Post #5478310

jnette: Yes I did recomend the shot of peroxide in the water. I think its 3 teaspoons to a half gallon of water.
I bartoo: I would use the aquariun heater to keep the water warm. I would make the fertilizer water very weak as too much can burn the little new roots. Schultz makes a "starter plus root stimulator" that looks to be a good application for any propagation method. I use Dip-n-grow, its a liquid. If your willow water is working for you I would stick with it. no sesnse reinventing the wheel. There are a lot of ways to propagate you just have to find the one that works best for you.
Dave
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:17 PM

Post #5479108

Hi: Any one that would like the whole how to as a word document please dmail me with your email address and I will get it out to you. I am hopeing this will be fast and easy to post. It might be a bit tough to follow as parts of the thread. The thread won't let me just cut and past the entire thing. :^(
Please ask any questions on anythig that seems unclear, or you need more detail.
Dave.

01/24/2010 - I am still wrking on it somehow I seem to be haveing a difficult time finding the time to "just do It" as I am trying to cut out the un-needed weather and my health issues and stuff along those lines that don't pertain to propagation. Dave

This message was edited Jan 24, 2010 6:17 PM
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:18 PM

Post #5479111

Empty 40 cell tray

Thumbnail by Pughbear7
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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:19 PM

Post #5479117


40 cell tray with growing media. Lightly sift the soil into the tray. Do not pack the soil in the cells.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:19 PM

Post #5479121

40 cell tray with growing media watered

Sorry I got the wrong pic on this one. I will repost it on down a few posts

This message was edited Aug 28, 2008 12:21 PM

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:20 PM

Post #5479124

I use a pen to make a hole to stick the cuttings in, approximately half way into the cell. I feel this is better than making the stem push through the soil. I believe it may remove some of the hormone from the cutting if pushed through the soil. Some times the cuttings will buckle when pushed into the media.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:22 PM

Post #5479136

40 cell tray with growing media watered

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:24 PM

Post #5479144

A tip cutting from Carolina jasmine - Gelsemium sempervirens, I like to look for stems with leaf nodes close to each other. I usually start with a 6 to 8 inch piece.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:25 PM

Post #5479147

Individual cuttings from the tip cutting with the lower leaves removed at the node. Note make sure to remove the starting branches from the nodes. (I am sure there is a technical name for this part of the stem, it just escapes me at the moment)

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:26 PM

Post #5479150

Trim the leaves remaining on the cutting. This lowers the transpiration rate by lowering the leaf surface area. I like to coat the cuttings stem surface half way between the nodes. This allows the plant enough stem to keep the leaves off the soil in the cell. I like to plant the cuttings at the middle point of the cell at a depth that is half way from the top to the bottom.

This message was edited Aug 28, 2008 12:27 PM

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:28 PM

Post #5479159

I like to use 3 Cuttings per cell, because more than one cutting per cell increases the success rate and makes for a larger plant.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:29 PM

Post #5479164

Yellow Lantana stems for propagation.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:29 PM

Post #5479168

Lantana stems with their flowers removed.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:30 PM

Post #5479170

Tip cutting with flower buds. Removal of the flowers increases the amount of energy the cutting is able to apply toward root formation.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:30 PM

Post #5479171

Tip cutting with the floral buds removed.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:31 PM

Post #5479176

Stem cuttings with lower leaves removed for each cutting. Above is one stem cut into cuttings and the lower stem ready to be cut into individual cuttings.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:32 PM

Post #5479181

The lower stem has been cut into individual cuttings. I like to remove the extra stem between the upper cutting and the terminal portion of the cutting. Note you need to cut the cutting close to the lower node. Excess stem will most likely increase the chance of disease getting into the cutting.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:32 PM

Post #5479183

I like to firm up the soil around the cutting by pushing in with 2 fingers making a finished lantana cell.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:33 PM

Post #5479184

Finished tray waiting to be watered in. I like to let the tray to sit for a little while then follow up with “jumpstart” application. Jumpstart contains Fulvic acid, thiamine mononitrate, humic acid & seaweed extract.
Finished trays need to be placed under a shaded area with high light that filters in. I like to mist the trays 2 to 3 times a day. Do not place the trays in the full sun, even if they are plants that like full sun.
You will know the plants are ready to transplant when they are putting on new growth and they are able to be carefully removed from the cell and all the soil comes out with the plant liner (rooted cuttings). You can also look at the bottom of the tray to see if roots have formed in the soil visible through the drainage hole. I like to lightly tug on the cuttings to see if they are starting to root. Be careful doing this because you can pull too hard and rip off the new baby roots.
When you transplant the cells into a bigger container I recommend watering them daily for the 1st week and then back it off to every other day. Look closely at the liner to make sure the liner does not go into wilt. Use close observation to know when you need to cut back on watering more than every other day. Most plants need to be kept evenly moist at all times. Too much and the plant will lose roots to rot and disease. Not enough water and the plant will wilt and drop leaves or worse die.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:34 PM

Post #5479185

A close up of the leaf node on cats whiskers. Note the bud formed at the node where the leaf has been removed.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:34 PM

Post #5479189

Here is what I store my extra rooting hormone. I like to mix my liquid hormone at 5 to 1 dilution. I realize that it may be a bit to strong for some plants, but I don’t want to have 3 or 4 different dilutions and try to keep up with which one is which. As I am preparing the cuttings for sticking I will place them upright in the container so that the node and stem are able to get as much of the hormone as they want. I am not sure if this helps them but I doubt it hurts them.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:35 PM

Post #5479191

Here is a picture of the watering wand I use. The watering wand provides fine streams of water that reduce the chance of soil wash out in the trays cells.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:35 PM

Post #5479193

Here is my green house, without the woven poly sheet that helps trap in the heat from the sun.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:36 PM

Post #5479194

Here is another view of my green house. It has 2 roof vents to help vent the heat during the summer. I plan to build a cold frame on the north side of the green house (left of) out of poly sheeting from Home Depot. This will give a stagnate air space next to the green house and in theory reduce the heat loss on the north side of the green house.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:37 PM

Post #5479199

This is a picture of one of the benches in my greenhouse. It is built out of
3 – 2”X4” X 8’
11 - 2”X4” X 4’
16 – 2” X 6” X 4’

I plan on having another one built for the other side of the greenhouse. I like to check the discount bin at home depot. They sell slightly damaged lumber as well as left over pieces that customers do not want after they cut the customers lumber for them. Most of what I like to buy is 51 cents each. Sometimes I might buy the more expensive lumber if it’s something I think might be useful.
I also plan to have more pavers laid as a walkway on the floor of the green house. The pavers will absorb heat and store it for release during the night. Other passive temperature storage can be in the form of containers of water stored under the bench.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:37 PM

Post #5479202

I have sprayed the grass on the south side of the greenhouse to lessen the speed of encroachment of Bermuda grass in my healing in area. Healing in is done in several ways. I prefer to use a raised bed and sink the pots of the plants I want to winter over outside and exposed to the weather to the same depth as the plant is potted at.
Oklahoma has a rollercoaster winter most of the time. I have literally seen it at 75 degrees in the morning and a build up of snow that afternoon. Our typical snows run around 3 to5 inches each accumulation. The accumulations rarely stay for more than a week. I try to keep my out side plants watered well between each cold snap. A well watered and properly fertilized plant will survive the weather we get better than a plant that is in stress.
I try to fertilize 3 to 4 times each year, with Osmocote. I use major calendar events to help me remember. Like Halloween to fertilize for the up coming winter, Valentines Day for the spring flush and Memorial Day for summer fertilization. I realize there are gaps in the coverage of the slow release fertilizer in the late summer to early fall but I over come this with supplemental liquid feeding in the late summer.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:38 PM

Post #5479203

Here is a picture of some seed flats I built with lumber out of the discount bin at home depot. I have about $1.75 in lumber. I use metal screen to allow proper drainage. They are built out of 1”X 4” and 1” X 2” lumber. The 1” X 2” provides feet for the flat and allows them to stack when being stored.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:38 PM

Post #5479210

Here is an end view of the flats. The one on the right is upside down. They are built by starting with 1” X 4” and attaching the 1” X 2” as feet on the boards.
Next the screen is fastened over the 2 sides leaving a space in the middle for drainage. The sides and ends are attached last.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:39 PM

Post #5479212

As you can see the repetitive wet and dry on the wood has warped the flats making them harder to stack.

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Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:42 PM

Post #5479223

Ok thats the entire propagation how too with pictures. Please ask any questions you may have. I tried to be as thorough as possible, but I am sure there are some spots of ambiguity (big word for a farmer). LOL I tickle myself sometimes. I hope this helps Dave
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
6:54 PM

Post #5479271

In case you are wondering about Lorraine she is taking a small break as she has been busy finishing up the shipping on the germ coop. A big thank you to Lorraine for all you have done for us on all the coops you so freely volunteer to do.
Dave
davis1676
Disputanta, VA
(Zone 7a)

August 28, 2008
7:04 PM

Post #5479323

Thanks Dave. I think I can follow most everything, but will def. have questions as I actually start doing this. First ?, Did you say you overwinter your plants in the ground outside of your greenhouse & you call this healing in? Explain healing in to me. Is that when you start conditioning your plant for change in climate or in my case in the spring when I harden off plants.. (Probably a very elementary question, sorry.)
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

August 28, 2008
8:16 PM

Post #5479604

Thanks so much Dave, I really appreciate the help. I am planning to get started over the weekend. BTW if anyone needs lantana cuttings to start with, I have quite a few that are in desperate need of being cut back. I am happy to provide cuttings for postage to anyone who would like some.
The lantana varieties I have are "new Gold" aka "gold mound" . I also have an abundance of american beautyberry cuttings. If anyone is interested, please send me a dmail. thanks, Ibartoo
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
8:35 PM

Post #5479671

Davis: No that is not an elementary question. What I call heeling in is simply sinking the potted plant into the ground at the same depth as the plant is potted. If you think of the ground as a solid flat plane the potted plant's soil is just a continuation of the soil. this getts the plants roots below the ground so that it has extra insulation. I like to pile leaves over them as well just extra protection for the plants. I will water at a minamum of once a week during the winter. We get a few warmer days each week all winter long. for those who have it where the snow sets in on you and doesn't leave untill the spring thaw. The snow provides extra protection to the plants against the drying winds. we get a lot of wind here which dries out the plants and if the plants are not watered well throughout the winter you might loose some or all of them.
It is similar to hardening off but in the other dirrection. This how I manage to keep so many plants in containers for a lot longer period of time. You are in a warmer zone than I am so I am not sure how your winters go.
For those who want to know, hardening off is slowly getting your plants used to the out side conditions. A cold frame or unheated space is used to get the plant ready for a cooler climate than they were grown in. I hope I explaind all this well enough to understand. I am flying off the top of my head.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 28, 2008
8:37 PM

Post #5479685

I am interested in the lantana cuttings Is the yellow the only one you have? I would like those also. I have bought a few at lowes discount rack 50 cent a gallon pot. but i need more to get my stock up for next years planting. tulsa, ok 74133
robcorreia
San Diego, CA
(Zone 10b)

August 28, 2008
9:15 PM

Post #5479837

Dave, that lesson was worth a million bucks!

I have a question for you. When you propagate vines in general, do you also do cuttings that small? I received some hoya from a trade and I cut it into 6 inch sections thinking I would get a larger vine sooner...was that a silly idea?

Thanks!
Roberta
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 28, 2008
10:47 PM

Post #5480168

Dave, I found that very interesting way back at the beginning about the patented plants. I never imagined that before. Also, your background is very interesting. What do you do now? You tell us about all the cuttings etc. what do you do with them?

Very interesting set-up you have now. I am not close enough to Lowes and HD to take advantage of their discount plants, lumber, etc. Too bad. I did go in there the other day on a trip to the "big City", and they had one of their half off tables stuck back away after people had finished with it. Too bad. I always feel so bad for the bedding plants etc. that the stores get in and don't take care of them.

Yes, Lorraine works so hard on the co-ops that would drive a NORMAL person crazy. LOL, Thanks Lorraine.

Jeanette



This message was edited Aug 28, 2008 2:48 PM
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 29, 2008
1:26 AM

Post #5480888

Roberta: I like to maxamize my cuttings I know it takes a lot of energy to suport the big vine. did it root out for you?

Jnette: I did a lot of trades this year and I am hoping to do some mail order with some of what I manage to get rooted out. I just play at it, its not a money making venture. I wish I had the energy to spend more time working on them I am lucky to get a half hour here or there.
Life has a way of making you do what you were ment to do. Mine is to tend to the family and help others as much as I can.
Dave
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 29, 2008
5:37 AM

Post #5481816

Well Dave, if how you are helping us with our gardening is a sign of what you do for others I would say you have a pretty full and busy life. I'll bet you really enjoy the plants. I was looking out my sliding doors at the flowers on my deck today wishing I could have a picture the size of each panel of the doors to put on during the winter to trade off with the snow once in a while. Think I could turn that into a business? LOL I wouldn't want it to look like a picture tho.

Oh well. I like the snow too. Just not 6 months of it.

Jeanette
Kittylover
Carrollton, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 29, 2008
3:12 PM

Post #5482913

Dave - what is the best time of yr to take cuttings? Does it depend on the plant? I want to take some cuttings of my gardenia bushes - frost free - Veitchii - I believe - when would be the best time and does it matter where I take the cutting from - should I do it after they flower and use the leaves back from the flower node - like in the example you used?

I also have some brugsmania that I got from the co-op- some are zone 7 hardy one is zone 9 - I know that one is pushing it - I thought it was dead once already - when it arrived it was totally limp and leaves have shrivelled - 90% of the stem is dead - at the very bottom nodes there are new leaves - the rest have put forth new leaves and seem to be doing well - they are in 1 gal pots in part shade - eventually I want to put them in the ground - but not sure when or what location would be best for them - I do need to put in a bed for them -

Thanks,
Kitty
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 29, 2008
3:32 PM

Post #5483003

Hi Kitty:
Optimum time frame is in the spring. According to what I've read you will want to get semi hard wood cuttings. Not the green stems and not the real hard stiff one either. I would try both semi hardwood and soft tip cuttings. Label them and let us know. I know we have a few Brug experts on this thread. anyone want to give us the tips on the brugs and their cousins Daturas? I know a lot about a lot of plants but I feel no one knows it all. The Burgs are an area I am unfamiliar and since we have some experts I feel it would be best to hear from them.
Dave
Kittylover
Carrollton, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 29, 2008
3:45 PM

Post #5483057

Thanks Dave!
robcorreia
San Diego, CA
(Zone 10b)

August 29, 2008
4:04 PM

Post #5483136

Brugs are extremely easy to propagate! I've done it both in water and potting soil with equal results = 100% rooting.
I have one in full sun and another in part shade and both are doing well. I would think in your zone they would like full sun. But make sure they always get enough water and fertilizer. They are very heavy feeders. I feed mine with rose fertilizer and they love it!
Hope that helps, Kitty.
Rob

ps: another thing: they really do not take wind well, the leaves are easily damaged by wind. So find a sheltered spot too.
Kittylover
Carrollton, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 29, 2008
4:14 PM

Post #5483177

Right now they are on the upper level of my patio - at the edge of the shade of my live oak tree - When should I put them in the ground? this fall or in the spring - I would move them inside for winter if I should wait until spring - I was thinking of putting them along the fence - east facing - just outside the shade of the tree - would that be a good spot ? the tree would provide shelter - so would the fence - LMK what you think - THANKS
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

August 29, 2008
5:17 PM

Post #5483389

I am on the opposite side of the country and find that in order for my brugs to survive the heat, I have to plant them in the shade. Here they will survive my winter although I have lost a few.
I can only leave cuttings in water until the little white bumps form on the stem. Then I have to plant them in soil otherwise they will rot. The easiest time for me to root them is when I cut them back before first frost. Hope that is helpful. Ibartoo
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

August 29, 2008
5:18 PM

Post #5483391

Is anybody here successful at rooting passiflora? If so which methods are you using? Thanks, Ibartoo
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

August 29, 2008
7:34 PM

Post #5483876

Yes, please! I've tried water and soil with bottom heat and neither worked on an 'Incense' passiflora...
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 29, 2008
10:16 PM

Post #5484409

Dave, here is a question I have been meaning to ask you. Forever. What about starting plants now for next year from plants I started from seed this year? Such as verbena. I have some gorgeous verbenas that I do not think I am going to be able to collect seeds from that I truly want in my containers next year. So, what about taking cuttings from them?

I think a good propagation series would be on collecting seeds. I know there is a lot of stuff out there, however, not like this where we can actually ask you the questions that we have in "real" time. lol

Jeanette

Chantell

Chantell
Middle of, VA
(Zone 7a)

August 29, 2008
10:22 PM

Post #5484441

OT - but PaganC - I'd be happy to send you some rooted incense now or next June (which is when it comes up here)
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 29, 2008
10:24 PM

Post #5484453

Ok, another one of LDQ. (Lorraine's dumb questions) When you cut the stem to root and cut it 6-8 inches long, how deep in the soil do you plant it. If we use the inserts, would we cut it shorter. I've been doing mine wrong. I've only been cutting about 3 inches putting 2 nodes in the soil.
That's probably why I lose some. So the cuttings 6 inches, and there would just be a small amt of stem in the dirt, (with nodes of course) and it would be tall on top?

Jeanette, you asked another question I wanted to know too. Well, actually you all did. My first year to really try and root stuff.

LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 29, 2008
10:27 PM

Post #5484464

Ok, another question. Should the rootings be kept inside or outside in the shade?

I had some hibiscus stems, semi hard, and put it in water, changed the water every other day. They started to get the little "white" bumps and I thought they were ok. Then I noticed the water smelled terrible. After a few days, they rotted, and I didn't think I would ever get the smell out of my nose. lol I put peroxide in the water and changed it really often, but they were outside.

I know the cuttings were good, cause Pam got some off the same bush and all of hers rooted.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 29, 2008
11:01 PM

Post #5484602

Jeanette: Yes start as much as you can for next year. I have been doing that all summer. I lost my silvermound stock plant a few days ago. My cat got into it (I think). Fortunately I have a fey plugs and some cuttings still going. I usually get a 50% loss on them. Any plant you can start and keep small inside is a bonus for next year. I was very fortunate this last spring because I managed to do a lot of good trades and most people were more than generous. It allowed me to add to my stock plants. Less to buy next year.
Lorraine. your 2 node cuttings should work. I think the 6" cuttings would be tough to get to survive the rooting process. too much plant to suport.
How deep? I like to stick them about mid way but sometimes it goes lower. I think as long as it doesn't stick out the bottom it will be fine. You may be loosing some to disease, fungus gnats or some other reason. You may want to mist the tops. I shoot for at a min. of twice a day. I have started using the jump start as a foliar spray as well.
Jump start is a mix of seaweed extract and some other acids that are suposed to help the cutting along. The jury is still out on it. I'll let you know how it goes.
Lorraine and everyone else, don't get upset when you have some or all of a species fail. I have had my share of losses. Just keep plugging away at it and learn from your mistakes.
robcorreia talked about the little bumps when he was discussing Burgs & Dats. Try it again and when you see the little bumps pot them in soil. I think in the warmer climates the plants go from bumps to rot over night. I had that happen on a burg I got in a trade. I like them but for the life of me they are a mistery. I have too many other plants I love to mess with. I will admire them from a distance. Aren't they toxic if swallowed? The reason I ask we have lttle ones this weekend and I would hate for them to get into the one I have and get sick. I would litterally die if that happened.

Dave
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 29, 2008
11:05 PM

Post #5484612

Lorraine, what are inserts? I am wondering what you are cutting 6 to 8 inches long? The whole cutting, or past the node?

How did Pam do hers different than how you did?

Jeanette
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 29, 2008
11:13 PM

Post #5484672

I guess I am really puzzled about what you are doing Lorraine. Dave says it is too much plant to support. How long is your cutting, and what is it?

Dave, Brugs are not the only plants that are poisonous. Just put it up where your kiddies can't get to it.

Lorraine, I tried the ice chest idea you talked about and the plants are swimming around happily with the airstone moving them. Reminds me of the little kids out in the swimming pool. lol Also, the electric knife cut it great. Didn't make crumbs.

Jeanette
robcorreia
San Diego, CA
(Zone 10b)

August 29, 2008
11:28 PM

Post #5484725

Kitty, like Ibartoo said, it all depends on your zone, really. I am in a frost free zone, so I litterally never bring anything inside for the winter, but I think somebody from the same zone as you would know for sure what to do.
I usually leave my cuttings in the shade, but the full grown Brugs are in full sun (with lots of irrigation!). Again, irrigation is also a factor of your zone - I am constantly watering because it never even rains here during the summer.
Dave, yes, they are poisonous. I don't think they are tasty though, so I don't see why kids would want to eat them! ; )
Jan23
Salem Cnty, NJ
(Zone 7b)

August 29, 2008
11:33 PM

Post #5484742

I must be dense. After you get the lantana in the medium, then you put it in greenhouse? Can I just leave it outside? Should I cover it with plastic wrap? Sure wish I had a greenhouse. Then approx. how long for roots to develop? Then you heel them in for the winter or do I bring them in the house?
Thanks for all the info. Just before you had put up the lantana segment, I was looking at my lantana (no ID) but a real purty orangey- red and it looked great this summer in a pot on the deck, so I was thinking I sure would like this again next year. then lo and behold, there you wrote it up. The hummingbirds liked it too.
Thanks again, jan
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

August 29, 2008
11:55 PM

Post #5484836

Jan, I have found the red/orange lantana not as hardy as the yellow lantanas or even the multicolor varieties. In your zone, I would root it and then keep it in a frost free area even if you allow it to go dormant. They have an unpleasant odor to me, so I wouldn't want them in my house but if you have a closed in porch or a cold frame to protect them, they should be just fine. If you do decide to leave it outside, then I would suggest mulching it heavily. Hope this is helpful. Linda
Jan23
Salem Cnty, NJ
(Zone 7b)

August 29, 2008
11:59 PM

Post #5484847

Thanks Linda.
Don't have a cold frame, but I will now.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 30, 2008
1:18 AM

Post #5485209

Jan do you have access to hay bales? They make a great insulator for a cold frame
Jan23
Salem Cnty, NJ
(Zone 7b)

August 30, 2008
2:35 AM

Post #5485533

Then just lay an old window across them? I think I could find some. Should it be on the south side? Is east okay? Should it be protected by a building? I am going to try doing this. Thanks for all your input everyone. It is great to learn new things.
Kittylover
Carrollton, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 30, 2008
5:40 AM

Post #5485941

Dave - ya gotta blame the kitties - come on- they always look so innocent! hehe- before ya bust my chops look at the time - another sleepless night - just kind of punchy -
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

August 30, 2008
12:37 PM

Post #5486340

Jan, I traded plants with a lady in ohio last year who overwintered clematis vines under a picnic table with an old blanket over it for insulation. She told me it was great because it provided warmth and humidity. She could uncover the table for warmer days and when it rained or snowed the moisture in the blanket helped the plants that much more. You might want to try something like that for your lantanas. I can't use it here because we don't have enough cold weather, but it might help some of your plants. Let me know what you think. Linda

Oh, I would definitely put the hay bales and window close to a building and depending on the amount of cold/afternoon heat you get in the warmest place.
Jan23
Salem Cnty, NJ
(Zone 7b)

August 30, 2008
12:47 PM

Post #5486367

thanks, ibartoo. I would think the blanket would make things too dark.? That's pretty creative though.
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

August 30, 2008
1:33 PM

Post #5486479

Jan, I thought so too, maybe she used a light colored blanket or something, but she had some gorgeous clematis vines. LOL
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

August 30, 2008
1:37 PM

Post #5486485

Jan, coming from Phoenix, AZ, I can tell you that my lantanas got burnt back pretty badly with just a few hours of under 32 degree weather - so please don't try this experiment with any plant you can't bear to lose! But I agree with Ibartoo - southern exposure, next to the house should be the warmest. Lots of luck!
catlady
Gilmer, TX

August 30, 2008
2:25 PM

Post #5486669

Somewhere last year, I think, someone was talking about B-12. It is suppose to do something for rooting, transplants, or something when they are little. Anyway, it sounded good so I got some. My question is, 'How does B-12 fit into this discussion. if at all?'.

Lorraine told me about this thread so I spent last night and this morning reading through it. I got some Oasis cubes from a recent co-op and am heading out this morning to get them in water so I can start some cuttings. If Oasis cubes have been mentioned here I missed it. How do you all feel about the cubes and what kind of success have you had? I also have some of that rooting hormone from the germination co-op. I have a number of vines and a few others things I want to root, so will be watching this thread closely.

Thanks in advance for any help. Pam
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

August 30, 2008
5:44 PM

Post #5487362

Catlady, I started this spring using the oasis cubes and somethings rooted much better while others didn't. Overall it seemed to take twice as long and not being the most patient gardener I decided I'd rather not use them. I also found that once I planted the cuttings in the soil it took them a while to break down and if they dried out, the rootling had a real hard time recovering.

I rooted various tropical vines and shrubs. I would definitely suggest trying them. You might have much better success.
Ibartoo
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

August 30, 2008
8:19 PM

Post #5487821

I also read (last night, as a matter of fact) that honey works in place of rooting hormone.
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 30, 2008
9:32 PM

Post #5488094

Okay, Ibarrtoo, don't tell us the root cubes aren't really wonderful@!! We both got a bunch of them. !!! lol
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

August 30, 2008
10:33 PM

Post #5488295

Lorainne, I certainly don't mean to sound discouraging. What I used was oasis (wet florist foam) If that is something different then I haven't tried it and need to shut up.

PaganCat, I have also heard about honey. I don't know if it helps rooting any, but I do know that it is both antibacterial and antifungal. I use it for my birds. I have heard of people mixing it with root-tone or other rooting powders to keep fungal problems at bay.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 31, 2008
12:01 AM

Post #5488568

Catlady, before Superthrive I used to use B-12. What I think it does is keeps the shock down when you transplant. Keeps the plant from being stressed out. Since they have come out with the Superthrive I can't find any B-12. It was under a couple of different names. Upstart and something else.

Here is a picture, not too good, of what Lorraine was talking about with the cuttings floating in a styrofoam cooler with an airstone. I think this is what she meant.

Jeanette

Thumbnail by Jnette
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 31, 2008
12:03 AM

Post #5488574

One more. there are also 2 cuttings of angel wing begonia just sticking in there. Not floating.

Jeanette

Thumbnail by Jnette
Click the image for an enlarged view.

LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 31, 2008
1:48 AM

Post #5488979

I was just teasing you about the oasis things., (My sense of humor isn't like most normal people) I just wish I knew the fool proof pots, etc to root them in. Maybe I should put them in 4 inch pots, and plant a little deeper? I'll try a million things till I find the one that works for me, so ya'll will have to hear each one in excruciating detail! lol

I planted a couple seeds in them to see what they would do and so far they've come up. We'll see.

Hey, that looks just like my little "syro. boats" We'll have to compare notes.
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

August 31, 2008
2:41 PM

Post #5490309

Lorraine, not to worry, my sense of humor isn't "normal" either. LOL I just didn't want to be discouraging.
Have you tried germinating and rooting in ziplock baggies... My germination results skyrocketted this year and some of my rooting did too.

I have an aquarium i am planning to set up tomorrow for cuttings. I need to get some stryofoam and a few other things first. my biggest problem is I want to root every thing I have and I have nowhere to keep all my plant babies this winter. My little greenhouse isn't big enough and DH renounced retirement before he could build me a second one. LOL
Lulabelle1
East Peoria, IL
(Zone 5a)

August 31, 2008
4:09 PM

Post #5490596

Can you propagate Flowering Crab by cuttings? I believe I have read that these plants are propagated by grafting. The reason I ask is because I have a 20 year old tree that is getting out of control with shoots coming up from it's roots. Just this morning, I cut them off. I would feel alot better if I could turn these cuttings into new plants.

THANKS,
Anne
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

August 31, 2008
5:32 PM

Post #5490845

Well, so far none of what I am trying has worked. Not counting the floaters. lol. I think the reason I am having trouble is because a couple of weeks ago our night time temps dropped into the 40s and I think when that happens the plants are preparing for winter and that means no more growing.

That doesn't mean that I am giving up tho. I have other plants I am going to try. Things I have never even considered trying as cuttings because I have bought them each spring. Going to try anyway.

Dave, do you think I have a chance in my zone 4/5 of getting cuttings to root and grow into plants over the winter? Most plants go dormant here.

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 31, 2008
7:13 PM

Post #5491184

Howdy everyone sorry for the silence. I have been studying the aeroponics articles I had printed. Good thing I printed it because for the life of me I couldn't find it on line if I had a road map. One thing it talks about is keeping the solution dark to slow down the algae. I know you are changing the solution every otherday Lorraine. It also talks about a misting system for the root zone. It sounds very basic and I hope to get the directions posted in a day or so..
Jeanette: I had the small problem with some boxwood cuttings I took last fall. I thought they would root anyway as long as I kept them warmer in the GH but noooooooooooooo. They finally started rooting out this summer. If you can geep the soil temp to about 68 - 72 degrees you should be able to. I am sure some of the plants are daylength sensative so they may not root out this fall for you. I would try to have a grow light on a timer and possaly use a grow mat to help up the soil temp. I wish I had a more frugal way to instruct you. Maybe in the garage?
Jan23: If possable an enclosed box with the hay bales. It will help keep critters out of the flats and add another insulating factor to the mix.
Kitty : I am usually puncy most of the time. I love the humor. but how can kitties be responsable they are so cute they wiould never do anything , would they???
Catlady: Oasis cubes work well for a lot of people. I never liked them because of the point someone else pointed out earlier. they dry out before the soil and if you are not watching closely they will dry out so bed that the plant dies. Its just a personal choice.
http://www.nehydro.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_2 is a link to a superthrive retailer. I would try a web search and find the best deal if you have to have it now or possably a co-op for the stuff.
Lulabelle1: most (or should I say a lot of) ornamental flowering trees are grafted onto a better root stock. Now what that means for the flowering crab a disease resistant variety is grafted onto a more suportive root stock. the grafted section seems to be disease resistant to scab and other diseases that set in on crabs in general. with that said I would try to root it anyway. It sounds like you are wanting to root the succkers coming up from the roots. Is this correct or are they volunteers coming up from seeds spread out around the tree? Succkers from crabs rootstock tend to not be as showey as the upper grafted part. Most section chosen to graft on a root stock have some aspect that the grower feels is superior to the root stock.
Please let me know If I missed any questions. One of the main things that needs to happen in propagation is to keep a consistant root zone temperature. 68 - 72 degrees, I know when it gets warmer we have to increase the frequency of misting. I am trying to find the link to a woven poly I bought last winter to cover my greenhouse. It traps the heat inside and acts as shade to lower the scortch on plantletts. I will get another post up tomorrow. we had grand babies this weekend. they are so cute and hands everywhere. lol Have a great day. I will check in from time to time today
Dave

LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

August 31, 2008
8:55 PM

Post #5491521

Hey, should I keep the things I'm trying to root indoors out ofthe 100 degree heat, or is the heat better.?
Lulabelle1
East Peoria, IL
(Zone 5a)

September 1, 2008
2:08 AM

Post #5492474

Quote:
It sounds like you are wanting to root the succkers coming up from the roots. Is this correct or are they volunteers coming up from seeds spread out around the tree?

Pughbear, yes, you are correct. Now that you brought it to my attention, I see what you are saying. Hmmmm Maybe I'll try to grow a few from the seeds.

THANKS,
Anne

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 1, 2008
5:13 AM

Post #5493070

Dave, how many grandbabies do you have???

BTW, you said Quote: I had the small problem with some boxwood cuttings I took last fall. I thought they would root anyway as long as I kept them warmer in the GH but noooooooooooooo. They finally started rooting out this summer.

Let me tell you, you have a lot more patience than I do. Those suckers would have been history long before summer if it had been me.

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 1, 2008
5:43 AM

Post #5493106

Lulabelle1 : if you are going for exact copies I would take cuttings, but if you just want more trees then seeds are the way to go. I would still try the cuttings though, you never know what you might end up with.
Lorraine: Inside would be better because the heat zaps the plants energy as well as the water does not bind with the nutrients as well as when the temps are kept between 68 and 72 degrees. I know you are getting the heat more so than I am but over 90 is still too hot for me. You amy want toinvest in another airstone,tubing and a manafold to increase the air in the solution.
We have 5 2 in denver and we haven't seen them in forever and then the 2 plus qfoster as well as one on the way. I would not like to be in the van on long trips. Grand kids are great wind um up and send em home to mom and dad... LOL... I like chocolate, ice cream and mountain dew ... he he he he... Caleb is 3, mercy will turn one shortly, julian the foster kid will turn 1 next month. I hate the fact that mom is still fighting for custody when she knows she really shouldn't have it. Its hard to raise a kid in jail. Julian has already bonded with my step daughter and son - in - law. I jsut pray the tossing arround won't screw him up mentally, If you know what I mean
I am hopeing to do DIY on a aeroponics as well as the "bubbles". Bubbles remind me of NEMO. We ran it 3 time over the past few days. One thing is to darken the solution tank to lessen the algea growth in there, Also keep the temperature down in the 68 to 72 degree range.
There are 9 flies in the kitchen. Which one is the cow boy?
TTYL
Dave

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 1, 2008
5:45 AM

Post #5493109

What's the answer to the flies joke Dave?

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 1, 2008
5:58 AM

Post #5493115

The one on the range... LOL... Home home on the range...
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 1, 2008
5:25 PM

Post #5494455

ha ha.
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 1, 2008
10:59 PM

Post #5495673

lol. I like that one.

Here's one. An airplane crashed right on the border of Us and Canada. Where do they bury the survivers.?

Hey one of the twins is a Kaleb, just spelled different.! Show us a picture of the kiddos.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 1, 2008
11:03 PM

Post #5495690

You don't bury survivors. lol

How old are the twins? Kaleb, cute name.

Jeanette
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 2, 2008
2:58 AM

Post #5496887

That is one of those jokes that people don't get if it's not in writing. !!! lol I spent 5 minutes trying to figure out where to bury them when I first heard it. Sure felt stupid when I realized what they said!!!

The twins were 3 in March. The other is Ian. I love that name!!!

Ok, what is the secret to rooting sedum, (the fuzzy kind) Can't get more than one or two to root.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 2, 2008
5:45 AM

Post #5497309

My grandson is Ian. Of course I love it too. He is 19.

Next question I thought was going to be another joke. lol

Have you tried the dip n grow in soilless mix? You might be getting them too wet. Are they rotting or just not rooting? Maybe you aren't giving them enough time unless they are rotting of course. Also, I don't think I would mist them much either. The fuzzy would hold the moisture too long I would think.

'can't believe that Dave, trying to root Boxwood and saying it finally rooted the next summer. I really wonder if he left it in the pots or whatever, all winter. I never thought to ask him. Probably not. He probably just tried it the next spring and summer.

Ok Dave, what's the answer to the above? Did you leave them to root over the winter? LOL

Jeanette
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 2, 2008
6:10 AM

Post #5497335

That's probably it. Too wet. And they are rotting. I've had a couple root, or anyway, they are still standing up straight. lol Probably need to do them differently from other stuff. Now all I have to do is find out what to do differently! lol

HELP!!!!!!!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 2, 2008
6:16 AM

Post #5497340

Just don't get them as wet as you would most other stuff.

Jeanette
davis1676
Disputanta, VA
(Zone 7a)

September 2, 2008
11:47 AM

Post #5497584

Dave, out of necessity, I'll probably be using my sunroom as a makeshift greenhouse this winter. What kinds of things do I need to add or amend to make this a viable option (if it is one). Typical 3 sides get sun, the other attached to house. I'll set up some flourescent lighting to help, I can't completely regulate the temp, but it'll be close to 70/72 degrees thru the winter. What else can I do?
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 2, 2008
3:47 PM

Post #5498442

Howdy: Yep I left them inthe flat all winter. I am stubborn that way. next spring hit and had a gazillion trades so I forgot about them untill a few weeks ago i noticed they were growing. a sure sign they were rooting. I hope to have 40 boxwood b4 winter.
davis: what exposure does the sunroom have(N, S, E, Or W)? Also how much direct sun does it get? Is the glass shaded? When we were looking for a new house in june there was one that had a sunroom. I was sold b4 we could look at it. Its shaded all day long so its great for growing mushrooms... lol no I am sure its great for other stuff.. did that sound mean? Sorry for the tone today. I'm feeling the weather coming at us. Cold front and Gustoff is suposed to collide over us early in the am tomorow. suposed to be a frog strangler.
Ok back on point davis I don't think I would worry too much about any prep on the sunroom. You may want to possibly look into some shade cloth, Lowes sells it by the foot. or this is a great product. I use it on my green house it lets the light in but seems to trap the radiant heat inside.
http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/index.cfm?
page=_productdetails&productid=1338&s=1338&cid1=-99&cid2=-99&cid3=-99

the grow lights might not be a bad idea. but other than that I think it would depend on what you are wintering over. If the roof allows light in then I am sure the floor store some energy and releases it passively. you might secure the door to the outside if there is one. maybe store some water under the benches if possible. water in jugs or drums make a great heat storage device. I would check for leaks and things like that. anything you can do to help the room keep from looseing heat anyway you can. sounds like you have a great plan.
Dave
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 2, 2008
11:02 PM

Post #5500086

Ok,, speaking of using rooms for greenhouses. I don't have one, of course, so I have to be creative too. Or stupid. You can tell me which. I have a spare bedroom with two windows on one side, .

Lots of light tho.

Last year I put florescents in the ceilings,. Well put chains on them and hung them right over the flats. About 2 inches. Then when I needed to put them in other pots, I moved them where the lights were higher up. I got pretty good germ rate, but I know I would have gotten better in a greenhouse. Do you think it will be ok tho?

You'll never believe what I used for heat mats. Heating pads on low. I might actually spring for a real one this year!! Course it doesn't get really cold here, but everyone says I need one anyway?
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 2, 2008
11:07 PM

Post #5500106

The germination rate is all that counts. Not how you got it. Heating mats are expensive and a pain in the butt if you don't need one. I have done the same thing you just described. I think if you can get shelving tho you will get a lot more bang for the buck. A light on each shelf. But, if you got as many germinate as you need, don't knock success.

Jeanette
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 2, 2008
11:24 PM

Post #5500183

But, but, I want 100% success!!! lol Didn't you know I'm obsessive. Took a test once, made a 98 and 40 years later, I'm still trying to figure out why it wasn't a 100.! lol

I've got one self and I am going to put lights on it too. I know it won't take up as much room and can do more flats. So, gotta get out the screw gun and get with it.

One more question. Since I'm using florescent bulbs and not the growlights, which kind should I use?
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 3, 2008
5:43 AM

Post #5501557

I would use daylights. Jeanette
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

September 3, 2008
1:12 PM

Post #5502160

Warm or Cool or combo of both.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 4, 2008
12:22 AM

Post #5504910

Lorraine any room will work. it sounds like you have many of the things required for a successful germination room. The adjustability of the lights will be key to success. Do you get any outside air coming into the room you do not want. of course it won't be as big an issue for you than those up north in the snow belt. You may want to line one of the walls with a reflective material (mirrors, a reflective poly sold in hydroponic shops or my favorite, alluminum foil anything else you feel will provide reflection I would try it). You may want to add some pans of smaller rocks to add humidity to the room (a word of caution though, too much humidity can invite mold and some deterioration of sheetrock (drywall)). You may want to pull the carpet back or even lay ceramic tile down. Some nice tile can be found at Lowes or home depot for less than $1.00 per sq ft. Personally I try to look at what happens when you want to turn it back to a bedroom so personally I would pull the carpet back but not out (unless you are feeling energetic and fell comfortable redoing a seam in the doorway) so that it is easier to put the room back together. I hope this helps address your concerns. There are a great many ways to get to a very successful propagation room, be it in a bedroom or part of the garage or a greenhouse. I have a pvc plan I will share later on this week.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 4, 2008
12:25 AM

Post #5504974

So what do we want to hear about next? Soils, aeroponics & bubblers, mist/fog systems. Or you fill in the blank. Please let me know so I can get preped and get a lot of info and break it down into a no nonsense application for the ease of inplamenting into your own program.
Dave
davis1676
Disputanta, VA
(Zone 7a)

September 4, 2008
1:53 AM

Post #5505466

soil for me, I need to improve what I'm using Dave. I've been using the hyponex planting mix. I'm finding when I water it doesn't go through the soil, it mostly goes around it & the top of the soil is sometimes the only thing wet. Should I mix it or what should I do Dave?
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 4, 2008
1:57 AM

Post #5505492

One quick idea for Lorraine. Walmart sells Mylar survival blankets for 88 cents. They are about 6 x 6 feet I think. Just hang a couple of those on the wall for reflectors.

Dave, I would like to talk about aeroponics but then that is just me. I doubt there are enough others that would be interested.

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 4, 2008
2:00 AM

Post #5505503

Once we get all the requests in and I will cover all as best as I can
;^)
Dave
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

September 4, 2008
2:04 AM

Post #5505524

Home made soil mix for me, please!
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

September 4, 2008
12:16 PM

Post #5506612

I agree aeroponics would be great, but any aspect of propagation would be just as good. I am fascinated by all of it.
zorba
Lake George, MN
(Zone 3a)

September 4, 2008
8:05 PM

Post #5508364

I, too, would like information on "home made" mixes for potting up seedlings. I do a lot of container gardening and I cannot afford "store bought" potting mixes.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 5, 2008
6:09 PM

Post #5512322

Davis: Are you refering to a newly planted/transplanted plant or is this a new container with a rooted cuttin(s)? It sounds like there is no airspace in the soil mix. any idea what the mix is made up of? Is the water running straight through or just bouncing off the top? Is the plant rootbound? I just want to make sure I am understanding the situation fully. If the plant is not rootbound and its just going around the media which it sounds like it to me. I would try either small sized pine bark or perlite to mix into the soil.
I am kind of curious on this one. Great question.
Kittylover
Carrollton, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 5, 2008
10:21 PM

Post #5513162

Dave - I don't know if it would be helpful but there is an extensive thread in container gardening on homemade soil mixes
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 5, 2008
10:54 PM

Post #5513257

Kitty Yes it would be helpful. There are a lot of different ways to mix your own soil and nothing says any mix is better than what you personally use and prefer, after all it a personal choice just like red vs green. At least its the way I feel about it. I've got my soil page done I just need to have it proof read for gaps, because I am sure there are some gaps or somethings I just glazed over which should have been explored a lot deeper.
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 5, 2008
11:05 PM

Post #5513302

Hey ya'll thanks for the help. Matter of fact, I used a room with carpet last year and moved everything to one without it this year.

Ok, I'll get the stuff for the reflector, but why am I using it. (Does the word "newbie" mean anything to you?) lol

I'd really lilke to know about the homemade soil too. Anythng you talk about is great with me, I need to learn it all. Would like to see your pipe thingy pattern.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 5, 2008
11:14 PM

Post #5513329

Hi everyone:
Kitty is correct that there is a great thread already on DG that looks great. It goes deeper into why than I did because I wanted to keep it simple. When you get a chance please read through it. Its long winded like you would expect. Here is the link.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/527353/

I am going to post what I have writen for this thread.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 5, 2008
11:15 PM

Post #5513338

Here is what I feel is a nuts and bolts breakdown and how I aproach things in my own growing. I hope it helps. Dave

Soil:

What is the difference in soil and dirt?? Dirt you find in the yard soil you use to grow plants in. I think this is a good place to discuss oxygen. Oxygen is needed for proper root growth. There are a lot of good mixes out and available at the local big box store. Most of the pre made soils have a good combination of moisture retention, air space and particle size to allow the plants to properly grow.
Air space is the empty area in the soil that the roots will grow into. When filling any container be it transplanting or setting up for propagation I like to water the soil very well. I look for the bubbles of air to escape and float out to the top of the water in the container. By doing this I ensure proper exchange of stored gasses from the plant and it refreshes the oxygen in the soil.
Moisture retention is mainly obtained in the peat and or soil in the mix. Vermiculite also helps in moisture retention and promotes cation exchange making nutrients stored with in the vermiculite readily available. Vermiculite also allows for a faster root development. It can be found at the greenhouse mega store as well as a lot of other suppliers. I am giving sources as a where it can be found. Some of you may find it at a better price than this site and I strongly encourage looking for the cheapest source possible, after all I am a bit frugal.
http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SO%2DVER&gclid=CMPsl8mKxZUCFRJdxwodzjIhiw
Perlite is another component in a good growing mix. It adds an airy texture to the medium lightens the weight of the growing mix and provides great air space retention, giving the plants a place to both root into as well as provide needed oxygen.
Sand has been used for a long time as a rooting medium. I worry about the use of sand in the mix because of my own fears of what else is in the sand? Much of the sand available to the general public is harvested from either rivers or the ocean. My personal opinion is that I try to stay away from it. Its heavy, retains little to no nutrients and the chance of some pathogen hiding in the sand is a distinct possibility.
Pine bark is a good additive to a planting mix if you are using it to transplant our outdoor landscape ornamentals. It is a cheap additive that helps increase the airspace available to the plant by providing a larger particle size in the mix. One negative that must be understood is that pine bark can and will lower the ph of the growing media, so please be aware of the fact that you may need to adjust the ph of the soil depending on what plants you are growing.
Moisture crystals: I am personally a fan of the little guys because it provides more retention of both water and nutrients. By lessening the frequency of watering you are lowering the speed at which nutrients are leached from the soil and the possibility of your plants going into stress from lack of water. Let’s face it we all find ourselves on the end of a garden hose watering our babies in the blistering hot summer months, sometimes 2 or even 3 times a day. I would rather spend my time in under the air-conditioning. I am willing to bet that all of us have at one time or another struggled to save one of our prized plants only to end up with it in the compost heap.
Compost is a good additive to the growing media for transplants. The one thing we all must do if we do use it in our mix is to make sure that it is not “HOT”. I use the term hot in that it is still breaking down and is just that hot to the touch. I like it as an additive; however I must confess that with the exception of the prebagged composted materials, I have no practical experience with it. Unfortunately my limitations will not allow that to change anytime soon.
One of the best mixes will consist of about 50% solid materials (sphagnum or “peat: moss”, Perlite, vermiculite) 25% moisture and 25% open air space.
My personal choice for a propagation mix would be a mix made up of
2 cubic feet Peat
2 cubic feet Perlite
1 cubic foot Vermiculite

Just before sticking my cuttings I would drench the soil with a light starter fertilizer. I like to use jump start as well as a product by Schultz called “starter plus root stimulator”. I personally like to drench with a broad spectrum fungicide as well.

My personal choice on planting mixes for containerized plants. I have been using a prebagged product by Sta-Green moisture max with fertilizer. It has a light fertilizer in the mix so that I have a little while before I have to top dress the containers.
Top dress is the application of a product to the top of the soil in a containerized plant.


If I planned on planting lots of plants I would use a mix of

40% Pine bark
30% Peat
20% Perlite
10% Vermiculite
I would also mix in a slow release fertilizer like “Osmocote” or Dynamite following the recommendations on the bag.

These are recommendations I feel would be best for me. Every gardener has their own preferences and there are a lot of ways to achieve the same goal. I recommend you play with the mixtures if you want to mix your own media. I have seen operations that use a concrete mixer to get a good consistent mix. Use your own judgment as to what is best for your situation.

I feel fungicide drenches are as important as moisture content when dealing with propagation. What you are looking for is a product or products that work on pythium, rhizoctonia, phytopthora, and botrytis.

One has to ask the question is it smart to mix ones own growing media? The cost of materials will be as follows (may be more or less depending on your location and availability)

Peat Moss 3.8 cubic ft $12.00 times 2
Perlite 4 cubic ft 15.00
Vermiculite 4 cubic ft 20.00
Yields 16 cubic ft propagation media $59.00

Considering most premixed bagged media run from $10.00 to $15.00 per 2 – 3 cubic feet.
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 5, 2008
11:37 PM

Post #5513436

Ok, so that is what we use for rooting medium and germinating seeds or just rooting. I know, I need a book called propagation for dummies. Hey Dave, there's an idea.

I like the way you explain. You keep it simple, and I don't know about everyone else, but I want someone who knows to just tell me what to do. Wouldn't understand all the "master gardener" stuff. You know, the ones that talk to other people who know all of it already.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 6, 2008
12:48 AM

Post #5513704

Thank you Lorraine:
I started to question the wisdom of going over the soils again when its been covered in depth. However I did notice what I call the eyeball glazing effect. You know when you start to read or listen to someone about a subject and the info goes way over your head and I start to feel intimidated by how they are coming across., your eyes start to roll back into the head and eyes glaze over and BOOM your lost.
He is completely correct in everything he is talking about. One thing he lightly covered is the reasons why we should be adding hydrogen peroxide in the water that we use to water your containerized plants. Now I am picturing that your back yard is like mine. I have a ton of containerized plants NOTE the picture. How do we get a solution of h2o2 added to our water we use to water our babies. Answer we use a fertilizer injector.
An injector will take a solution of addatives and mix it in with the water coming out of our hoses supplying. Now you are asking yourself ... Is he off his rocker??? welllll yes but not on this. Its a product called a syphonjett injector. it runs 20.00 each

http://www.growersupply.com/drhosi.html

I will cover proper mixes for use on our containers. and how to decide what ratio is best for your application. This will get very crop specific but I will try to narrow down the choices so that its not a confusing mass of information.
Ok now back on point propagation and fertilizers/chemicals. Hydrogen peroxide does a lot of good for plants. when it is introduced to the propagation medium the spare oxygen molecule will either attach itself to another oxygen molecule forming O2 or attach itself to the most redial available organic compound (i.e. diseases molecules). Hydrogen peroxide also neutralizes the chlorine in most tap water. Personally I plan to use the following as a pre drench on all my propagation flats.

2 teaspoons of 3% hydrogen peroxide
3 oz. schultz starter plus root stimulator
2 teaspoons of "jump start"
into 1 gallon of water

the roots of a plant require oxygen to grow and remain healthy. I feel this mixture will do the most to help the success ratio of propagation.
I also plan to use the same mix in my aeroponics system(which will be the next subject in this thread.
I will be researching where to find a more cost efficent source for all the chemicals and the injector. I know you are saying why do I want to add another confusing piece of equipment that I don't think I really need. By using and injector you will be able to push your plant into being bigger, healthier increase the bloom size and count.

I apoligize in advance for any confusion caused by me. I am sure there have to be a few questions so please ask. I hope this helps
Dave


Thumbnail by Pughbear7
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 6, 2008
1:11 AM

Post #5513822

I found the injector for $15.50

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=WA%2DHOZON

They also carry 4 cu ft bags of horticultural grade vermiculite and 4 cu ft perlite

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SO%2DVER

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SO%2DPER

I hope this helps
Dave
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 6, 2008
5:50 AM

Post #5514954

Really good information Dave. I read the other early in the summer. It was also good but as you said, my mind wandered. Good mind. lol

My question is, do you put peroxide in the water every time you water? Or, how long does it last? I suppose if you water without the peroxide that you either break it down, or dilute it so it is no longer effective anyway?????

Thanks for your work Dave, Jeanette
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 6, 2008
6:03 AM

Post #5514974

Dave, I just looked at that injector. So, you have to carry a bucket around with you? Or, would you screw it on to the top of a peroxide bottle? Why wouldn't one of those fertilizer jars with the dial measure on the top be better. Or would that only work for foliar feeding?

Just that mind working overtime tonight. Gotta go to bed before I lose it.

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 6, 2008
1:01 PM

Post #5515385

Jeanette:
The way it works is you mix up a strong solution in a 5 gallon bucket, screw the brass body on to the spigot from yout house . next you attach the garden hose to the end of brass body, then you drop the end of the little hose into the solution. now you turn on the water at the spigot and water you plants like normal. The water comming out of the spigot draws a small amount of the solution out of the bucket and mixes it wih the water comming out of thewater supply you would normally water with.
If you have ever read any of the technical paper's written for a college course or research paper on plants, they talk about ppm(parts per million) of fertilizer used.Once we get done with the lessons on parts per million you can play with the condensed solution and make one you relly like and use it to provide a continuous feed. its more precise than droping a handfull of slow release on the top od the soil in the container and hoping the plant will use it.. I like to use both so that you can get a bigger plant faster. thier are a lot of different concentrates that focus on any number of aspects of a plant and the stage of growth your plants are in. We can mix up a solution to help push the root growth for use when the rooted cuttings are freshly planted into their new container, or if your plants have rooted well and you want to have more flowers we can promote that.
I hope that I have not made your eyes glaze over and I lost you somewhere in the last few paragraphs. I look forward to any and all questions?
TTYL
Dave
tigerlily123
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 7b)

September 6, 2008
2:08 PM

Post #5515639

I hope you don't mind me adding a few things to what you wrote Dave.
The first is that if you are going to make your own growing medium using straight peat-then you must add a slow release lime to it. Peat has a PH of 3.5 or less and that is way to acidic to grow in. This is where it gets tricky and where sometimes the compressed, bale soiless mixes may be a safer (and possibly in the long run a cheaper) alternative in that you can kill plants where the PH is extremely high or low. Too high or too low PH also blocks certain micro nutrients from getting to the plant-and just adding them won't help. You will have to adjust the PH in order to allow the plant to get those micro nutrients. Adding just the right amount of lime can be very hard to do, and you can easily get in a game of going too high, and then too low of the PH.

The other thing that I would add is that with a siphon mixer-you can't just make a strong solution. There are specific amts of fert that you add to the water in the bucket that will make up your concentrate. PPM is the first thing that you start with-how strong do you want the fert that comes out of the end of the hose to your plants to be? Generally you can safely go with 100-150 with plants that were just transplanted (seedlings) once a week. On the back of the bag, there will be a chart of amts that correspond to the PPM that you want, and the ratio that you are using-which with a siphon is a 1:15 (some are 1:16). The amt of fert that is used is weighed-not measured by tablespoon, so it will be in ounces. As an example-if you put 4 gallons of water in the bucket, then you would add 4 times the amt on the chart-which for 100 ppm might be 1 ounce (just guessing-too lazy to get up and look at a bag!).
I just didn't want anyone to burn their plants by thinking that the amt of fert in the concentrate wasn't that important.
Another thing with the siphon-it is only effective if you use 100' hose or less of the hose that you will use to fert the plants. After 100-it will lose the ratio and the concentrate is less. Thus a weaker solution
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

September 6, 2008
3:19 PM

Post #5515966


Aren't most fert measurements done by volume and not by weight, so one ounce usually means by a measuring cup and not a kitchen scale?

http://homeharvest.com/waterfertilizerinjectors.htm

davis1676
Disputanta, VA
(Zone 7a)

September 6, 2008
3:25 PM

Post #5515983

Good stuff people, thanks (eyes only slightly glazed). Dave, I'm starting or transplanting fairly young plants so no problem with heavy root issues & the water isn't penetrating the soil well. By the way, thanks for answering, I thought you were ignoring me for a while there. What if I don't want to use peat moss? Aren't there environmental issues with peat? What other substitute might there be?

tigerlilly, I appreciate the reminder about ph, although I don't quite understand it all. Here's what I did yesterday, I got a few bags of composted manure, (directions said it wouldn't burn tender roots). I mixed it with equal parts of potting soil & potted up several things (including new brugs I just got). Now, thinking about the ph, I wonder if I put in too much manure? If anyone could comment on this thanks, I have time to repot today.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 6, 2008
4:33 PM

Post #5516252

tigerlily:
Thank you for the input. you are correct about ph and the yoyo that can easily happen. And you are correct about the nutrients needing to be added to the soil mix. I have been out of the industry long enough to know that I have no idea of what is available to us to counteract the sterile soil. not only do young plants need nutrients they also have some specific need that may vary depending on the plant species. I believe that we need to locate a fertilizer that is well rounded and can be diluted enough to supply the necessary nutrients to the young plants and that wont burn the tender new roots. We need to be aware of the fact that once the nutrients are in the soil care needs to be taken to avoid burning the roots as well. burn can happen if fertilizer levels in the soil are high and we allow the soil to dry out between waterings. I realize that in most instances it takes a lot of fertilizer build up to cause damage to the roots. when we are talking about newly rooted plants it is a lot easier to burn the roots. This is why I tend to stick to the osmocotes and other time released fertilizers in most of my recomendations. You are correct in the care in measuring for your concentration must be strongly watched. In this Instance MORE IS NOT BETTER ... I believe what tigerlily and I am trying to get across is that, it would be a shame to take the time to grow up our new babies and then when we are potting them up to either burn the crap out of them, possibly lose them by burning off the roots or in the other extream to lock up all the nutritional avalability by not having a proper PH that allows the free transfer of nutrients from the soil and fertilizers. All of these senarios are real possabilities and personally I would feel horrible if I gave advise that caused anyone to lose even one plant. Most of the info I am churning out is off the top of my head and I always welcome input after all we are here to learn from each other.
Ph testing is quite easy to do and we all need to be aware of what the PH of our home made soil is. I don't like the stick a probe in the soil to get a reading of ph. I don't think they are acurate enough. You should be able to get a test kit for under $15.00.
Hopefully I am coming across clearer than mud
Dave
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 6, 2008
4:59 PM

Post #5516341

Davis:
i try to answer everyone I can. sometimes I miss one or two questions that I pick up on when I am trying to find out what the questions are currently. It sounds to me like you have a particle size issue. It seems to me that you are using small particle sized material and nothing to help create pore space for roots and air exchange.
Not being familiar with burgs, are there any special ph needs that they have? Azaleas like a lower ph so pine bark is a good additive to both help lower the ph as well as provide air space. I am not familiar with the environmental issues of peat moss and if there are any. There are some issues with the pine bark and cypress mulch as far as the enviroment goes. Peat is harvested from bogs in several locations. I know there are bogs in florida as well as canada and I would bet there are other locations throughout the U.S. You may look into some of the additives used by orchid growers. they use a lot of bark and other materials to givethemselves a nice open mix. When you make a soil mix you want to be able to form a soil ball (like the snow balls we all made when we were young). I believe it needs to hold moisture but not make a heavy compact ball. it needs to be able to crumble fairly easily and still hold moisture. I like to get my hands in the mix and feel the consistancy of the mix. You may try perlite as well.
Do burgs have any issues with florides? The plant genius Dracaena has floride issues and perlite should be used with caution. Perlite has floride in it as well as our tap water. It causes brown spots as well as burn on the leaves.
I like perlite because it lightens the weight of the mix as well as provides a nice medium particle size in the soil mix.
If I happen to miss your question it is one of 2 reasons. I am rolling it arround in my head trying to get the best answer I can or I just flat out missed it, so please ask it again. The only dumb question is the one thats never asked.
I hope this helps. please let me know what you come up with. If you can find it Back to earth makes a product called composted cotton burrs. Its the left overs from cotton harvesting. Its great for breaking up heavy clays and might be something to add for your bergs. I know you are our resident berg expert.
dave
tigerlily123
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 7b)

September 6, 2008
5:34 PM

Post #5516471

Dave, I wasn't saying to add nutrients to the medium-you already said that and I agree totally. I start to fert (weak concentration -maybe 50-75 ppm) as soon as the plant starts to put out their first-second set of true leaves and I move it up to 150 ppm as soon as I transplant them into 3.5" pots-once a wk. I think what I was saying ( and I am really tired too-right smack in the middle of a pansy crop right now-so I am sorry if I don't make something really clear) is that if your PH was not right, then it would block the uptake of nutrients to the plant-specifically micro nutrients-which the plants need.

Davis-here is an example of what I am talking about with the PH. Pansies need a PH of about 5.5-5.8. That is hard to get to with the soiless mixes because with the lime added to them (lime raises PH-which the soiless mixes need because of the low PH of peat) the PH is usually around 6.2-6.5, which is fine for most plants. So, unless I do something to reduce the PH some, I will start to see pansies with yellowing new leaves. That is a sign of low iron (just in the new leaves). The iron is there in the soil ( most ferts have all the micro nutrients in them), but the higher PH of the medium is blocking the plant from taking it up. As soon as you lower the PH (fastest way is sulfuric acid-battery acid, which I add to the liquid fert), then the leaves start to green up.

With the mix that you did, I would be very concerned about drainage-or lack thereof. As Dave said-the absolutely most important feature of a potting mix is oxygen. the heavier the soil-the more it retains water, and water displaces oxygen. so the trick is to have a fast draining medium. Also roots grow more at night, so its better to water in the am and let the medium drain throughout the day so there is less water in the soil at night-
I never use potting soil,its too heavy and doesn't drain well. If I were you, I would definitely put alot of perlite in the mix to help with the drainage. Keep in mind that you can always water-but you can't remove water if its waterlogged.

hcmcdole-all ferts are dry weight, and are weighed by a scale. Liquids are measured by a measuring cup.


Edited to add that a potting mix made up of straight peat and whatever else, lacks a wetting agent that the soiless mixes have, and that really makes a difference! Has anyone ever tried to mix peat with water before? its a witch (substitute a b there...:) )

This message was edited Sep 6, 2008 1:37 PM
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

September 6, 2008
8:00 PM

Post #5516984

Oh dear, so what is exactly wrong with Builder's Sand? I have a friend that recommended it highly, he clones a lot of woody plants like roses & buttlerfly bushes with great success. Could you say that medium may be better for woody plants and use perlite/vermiculite/peat for more tender cuttings? He (a Master Gardener BTW) also said that a mix of peat & sand kept too much moisture (for what it's worth).
Thanks,
Vi
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 6, 2008
8:47 PM

Post #5517188

Vi: Sand as well as topsoil has a lot of dormant diseases just waiting for the right conditions. Moist high humidity and something to feed on (injured plants). you can use it and lots of people do with reat sucess, you just need to be watching for any kind of signs of the possability of disease. there are a lot of fungicides available that will help controll the disease. you can cook the sand or soil but thats a pain to do unless you have the right piece of equipment ($800.00 - 1000.00). it can really stink up the house. personally I prefer to use either prebagged or a homemade peat mix, but thts what I prefer. Its like I like mustard and you like mayo. I hope this helps
Dave
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 6, 2008
9:24 PM

Post #5517337

Tigerlily is corect about a wetting agent is best to overcome the repelant nature peat has to water. One thing I am not sure of is if we mix in the terrasorb absorbant crystals will this be enough to overcome the need for a wetting agent. Most of why I am curious about this is purely economilcal. I found wetting agent from the link below. The problem is it costs 97.00 for 4 gallons and it only takes 18ml at the suggested application rate. so it would be costly for the small home gardener. Below is the link to one wetting agent.

http://www.jrjohnson.com/product.php?productid=16179&cat=277&page=1

http://www.gret-perg.ulaval.ca/en_presentation.html

I am still looking for a more economical source. I think the crystals should counter act the difficulty of peat to absorb moisture. I know personally I have mixed peat and perlite in a 50/50 mix and sealed it inside a tote (like the ones used to store under the bed). It absorbed a lot of moisture but I can't say how long it took for it toreach maximum water absorbency.

Tigerlily do you know of an economical source for a wetting agent so that the ones that want to mix thier own soils.
Dave
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

September 6, 2008
9:40 PM

Post #5517462

That's funny about the dry fertilizer. I get a measuring spoon in the water soluble fertilizers I buy. I know they are sold by weight (government regulation?) but no scale is included, just the spoon. Volume and weight can be used in measurements interchangeably if you know what the proportion of weight to volume is (aka density or if you take the inverse - specific volume).

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 6, 2008
11:31 PM

Post #5517891

Thanks HC.

I'll take the spoon method any day.

Jeanette
tigerlily123
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 7b)

September 7, 2008
2:19 AM

Post #5518569

I just took this picture in the hopes that it will explain what I mean in needing to use a scale for measuring-this really only applies if you are going to use a siphon. If you are just taking a gallon of water and measuring out a Tablespoon, then I am sure that it works well-because you are mixing such a small amt at a time.

Its really interesting to figure it out, but can be confusing at first also. I should say that this chart applies to a fert that is 20-10-20. the reason that that is important is the Nitrogen number. If you were using a fert with a higher nitrogen number, then you would use less ( each bag has its own chart), a lower N # would be more.

there are 3 boxes top to bottom. Its the middle box that I am going to be referring to.
On the left side, first column is what the different ppm are-what strength you want. The next 3 columns are the ratio amt. The first of these is the siphon one ( 1:15). I usually use a injector and so I use the 1:200 rate because I fertilize so much I don't want to be making up a solution all the time-and I make up 4 gallons each bucket. All these numbers are for 1 gallon of water so I multiply my number by four.
The last column is what the EC (electrical conductivity-how you measure the soluble salts (fert). You use this column if you want to make sure that your siphon or injector is calibrated (working) correctly. You take a sample from the end of the hose and stick a EC meter probe into the sample and see if the number that it reads is close to the corresponding number in the chart.

so-lets go thru the 1:15 ratio one. Say you want 200 ppm in one gallon of concentrate-if you follow the chart, it will say 2 (all numbers are in ounces-dry) under the 1:15 ratio heading. So you would weigh out 2 oz, mix it in the gallon of water and there you go! With mine- I want 150 ppm so I see that it would be exactly half of the 100 ppm and the 200 ppm amt-which would be 1.5 oz. But since I am using a 1:200 ratio, then I go over to that column and I see that I would use 20.25 oz (13.5 plus 27 divided by 2) and I am making 4 gallons so I will weigh out 81 oz. and mix that into 4 gallons of water. And I should get a EC reading of .88 on my EC probe.

Here is my concern with the spoon. If it is a tablespoon and you usually use 1 T gallon when you mix it up ( somewhere in my mind, I seem to remember that that is the rate?), using a siphon ,according to their website, they are telling you to multiply that amt by 16-which is 16 T , which is way more than the 2 oz on the chart and you very well may end up burning your plants. It is not hard to do with soluble fert as it is, but when you start to use larger amts, its even easier.

Anyway-I hope this helps and doesn't confuse people more. As I am sure that Dave will tell you-it isn't always easy to convey the knowledge over the internet-esp if you are not a great typer as i am not!

Thumbnail by tigerlily123
Click the image for an enlarged view.

violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

September 7, 2008
2:52 AM

Post #5518671

Gee, I don't know if I want anymore info or not now. Is anyone elses head spinning like mine? Math makes my head hurt, LOL!
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 7, 2008
5:27 AM

Post #5519244

Lol. No one said there would be a test.

She is very correct in what she is saying. Its real easy to burn plants with soluble fertilizer. the burn not only happens when you apply the fertilizer but it can happen over time as well. Excess fertilizer is left behind as soluble salts. Imagine if you will you start with what seems to be a good rate but what you don't see is the fertilizer going back to solid when the water evaporates..
please don't get discouraged by this in depth chat on fertilizers. The thing I don't want to happen is to have a nice specimine you are just over the moon about. I woult just die if something happened to it because I failed to adaquately aprise you of the potential danger of improper use of soluble fertilizers.
I believe we have beat the fertizer subject enough in this thread. Anyone that wants a more in depth discussion I would be happy to continue on another thread, just ask.

Are there any questions on soils? I think the next subject was suposed to be bubblers or aeroponics. I hope The last few posts have not scared anyone away. I am glad to be able to use the knowledge I have to help everyone here on this thread. I feel like in some ways it is how I give back to everyone the the things I have learned over the past number of years. I hope this is understandable. For some reason I feel like I am unable to communicate what I want to in an understandable way.
Have a great evening
Dave
Jan23
Salem Cnty, NJ
(Zone 7b)

September 7, 2008
5:09 PM

Post #5520528

Dave,
I appreciate you starting this thread for BASIC propagation. I have learned quite a bit, but now am getting overloaded with the extra info. from others and pros/cons of this or that and measuring spoons/siphons using charts etc. Eyes are definitely glazed over. lol I do appreciate everyone's knowledge, but this is one called BASIC propagation. Please don't lose us.
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 7, 2008
6:47 PM

Post #5520928

I'm with Jan, my eyes glaze pretty easily too. I'm just starting to learn too. Too much info at once and it all starts to leak out. lol

I know when you've done it awhile, you learn all about additives, etc. But pretend you are me and know nothing and just need you to tell me what's best. Don't even need to know all the why's. Couple questions:

Am I right to say we need to use soiless mix for rooting? If so, do we , or can we, mix it with regular potting soil? If we don't mix, we need to put some kind of fertilizer, right? Cow manure in the seedless mix? Or do I use, soiless, regular potting soil, and manure together.

Also, I know to use peroxide, something to do with oxygen, but that's about all I know or need to know, lol. But, question is, I've been just putting a dollop in the water when I bottom water, or mist, etc. Is that ok?

tigerlily123
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 7b)

September 7, 2008
7:27 PM

Post #5521064

I know what I wrote was complicated - it was only aimed at the people that wanted to use a siphon, so that they would understand better how to do it so they would not burn their plants. I am sorry if I got anyone upset-that wasn't my intention. ok-back to beginner gardening!
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 7, 2008
8:58 PM

Post #5521354

Howdy:
Sorry we got off track. My original intent was to do a basics how 2 because I realized there were a few friends here that wanted me to do a how 2 so I started one. We will get back to basics.
Lorraine it sounds like you are doing a good thig with the peroxide. I just started doing it because it made sense to me and everything I read had nothing but posatives to say about it. Of course we all know not to over do it.
Propagation mix. you can use the pre mixed soiless seed starting mix or you can beef it up/ cut it with peat and perlite to spread out the cost. I do a lot of things that are "wrong by scientific standards" but it works for me so is it wrong? I say if it works don't fix it.
A good propagation mix would be:

2 cubic feet Peat
2 cubic feet Perlite
1 cubic foot Vermiculite

Basically 2 parts peat, 2 parts perlite and 1 part vermiculite. I like to mix in slow release osmocote and then do a drench of the flats (jumpstart & schults starter plus) right before I stick cuttings.

Are there any questions I need to address before we start the new thread ? Or are we fine keeping this one for a while longer? I am asking this for the dialupers. I am on high speed but I remember dialup, so I am fine either way.
Dave
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 7, 2008
9:57 PM

Post #5521521

Lorraine, if you put cow manure in with your soiless mix you are asking for those nasty gnats. After the plants come up and have some new leaves start with a light fertilizer and then pot up when they are big enough.

Jeanette
Jan23
Salem Cnty, NJ
(Zone 7b)

September 7, 2008
10:56 PM

Post #5521730

Thank you. :)))
I am good with whatever you decide to do RE: new thread. I don't have any questions at this point.
Jan
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

September 7, 2008
11:15 PM

Post #5521801

Whew!

K, how in the heck will the liquid Dip N Grow stick to the cuttings? And what about light & temps, did we learn this yet?
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 7, 2008
11:54 PM

Post #5521934

Vi:
Light needs to be indirect but high light, if you know what I mean. The cover I have for my green house gives me about 20% shade. I like to try for 68 to 72 degrees. Bottom heat will be needed if you want to propagate through the winter. You will also need to supliment the light to give you about 16 hours of light.
I hope this helps
dave
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 8, 2008
12:05 AM

Post #5521989

Vi: I just remembered I missed the question on how dip-n-grow stays on the cuttings. Its a liquid that is absorbed into the cutting when its dipped prior to sticking the cutting. Your question kind of addresses why I like to make holes in the center of the cell prior to sticking the cuttings. It may or may not happen but I feel that if you push the cuttings into the soil instead of a pre dibbled hole you lose some of the rooting hormone when it rubs against the soil. I try to firm up each cell when I am finished sticking cuttings. I mist the cuttings with a spray bottle mixed with jump start, schults starter plus and peroxide. I like to water the trays the next morning making sure I get a good run through of water out of the cutting media.
Dave
pieohmy
Independence, LA
(Zone 8b)

September 8, 2008
1:03 AM

Post #5522229

What a great thread idea, thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. I personally love eucalyptus but have been told it is almost impossible to propagate. I have access to a large one in a public place to take cuttings from. So do you know if it possible to take cuttings from to propagate?
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 8, 2008
1:13 AM

Post #5522276

pieohmy:
I never listen to the "it can't be propagated" words of wisdom. It may be difficult and success rate may be extreamely low survival rate. I will do a bit of research and though as to how to aproach this. Do you have a botanical name? picture maybe?
My main reason I never say never because what does it cost us if it fails? were out a bit of rooting hormone and out own time and energy. So lets give it a whirl.
Dave
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

September 8, 2008
1:20 AM

Post #5522313

If I may ask a question... in your starter mix, you mention using peat/ perlite/ vermiculite. Does the perlite and vermiculite cut the peat to the point where it's low pH isn't a problem [scratching head]? I *think* that's what was mentioned when it got a bit complicated back there...
pieohmy
Independence, LA
(Zone 8b)

September 8, 2008
2:16 AM

Post #5522596

Eucalyptus globulus is the botanical name. They grow from seed easily enough but I have never seen this tree flower to get seeds from it.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 8, 2008
5:17 AM

Post #5523299

Pieohmy, I started some Eucalyptus a couple of years ago. Can't remember where I got the seed tho. You might try Seeds Of Change, or Ebay. Or, sometimes I just google Eucalyptus seeds and find things that way.

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 8, 2008
6:16 AM

Post #5523352

Pagancat: Perlite's ph can range from 7.0 to 9.0 depending on the source. Here is a perlite page to read up on perlite if you would like to know more. Personally I tend to not worry about the ph of peat/perlite media because the household water's ph will slowly raise the ph of the growing media. I am more concerned about getting nutrients to the new cuttings. I like to mix osmocote to the mix as well as a light feedingperiodically during the watering cycle. If I were growing a large number of plants I would tend to worry about ph and availabilit of nutrients. I have a large range of plants that take both lower and higher ph than the nutral 7.0.
I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion of ph brought on by the eye glazing technical discussion on ph. There are a lot of variables involved that are very specific to the crop ones growing.
Dave
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

September 8, 2008
7:26 AM

Post #5523406

I bought eucalyptus seed from Park's and they germinated easily and grew very fast. An ice storm damaged the trees (two were over 20 feet tall after 3 years in the ground) to the point of cutting them down because they were so ugly. You can also find seedlings in some of the big box stores at times.

http://www.parkseed.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?storeId=10101&catalogId=10101&langId=-1&mainPage=prod2working&ItemId=3179&cid=pext00008

Here were the two tall ones before the ice storm at our last house.

Thumbnail by hcmcdole
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 8, 2008
12:52 PM

Post #5523867

Those are very strange looking trees. They don't have much foliage on them. They aren't anything like the ones I remember in California. I never got the ones I started that big because I traded them to someone, knowing I couldn't grow them up north. I just started them for the little bit of foliage I hoped to get for some bouquets and also to see if I could actually get them to grow.

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 8, 2008
1:17 PM

Post #5523955

Yes they tend to be a bit sparse in the landscape. I have no idea how they look in the wild. They seem to be missing the koala's. what did you do with them????
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

September 8, 2008
2:27 PM

Post #5524296

I cut them down when they didn't shed the ugly leaves from the ice storm. I think they are weed trees in FL. yet you can still find seedlings at the big stores.
pieohmy
Independence, LA
(Zone 8b)

September 8, 2008
4:35 PM

Post #5524780

I found some seeds so wish me luck. hcmcdole did you do anything out of the ordinary to get them to germinate?
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 8, 2008
4:58 PM

Post #5524871

I don't think the tree she is talking about is as bed as another one of the eucaliptis. The one I know is a weed has long thin leaves. Just my personal obsevation. Good luck with the seeds
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

September 8, 2008
11:32 PM

Post #5526443

I think most of the seeds I bought germinated easily without any big fanfare. The thing about this eucalyptus (E. cinerea aka silver dollar gum- the ones that florist's commonly use) is they grew too fast to keep in a pot so I put some in the ground and was amazed they were winter hardy. The ones in pots needed to be pruned regularly to keep them to size and that produced a lot of stubs which was ugly too. I still see some around town in people's yards but they aren't the prettiest things - more an oddity.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/51537/

http://www.walterreeves.com/landscaping/article.phtml?cat=18&id=364


LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 9, 2008
2:23 AM

Post #5527359

You are so right, the little koala's arent' there!!! Drat!!

Ok, the jumpstart you talked about. Is that the name? And you mix it with the water, and peroxide and mist. Or do you put it in the water you water the soil with? The osmocote, you mix with the soiless mix, right.

I can't help it , I'm brain dead! Oh and Tigerlily, you didn't confuse us, some of us (me) even get confused with the basics!!! I actually cut and pasted your info so I could have it for later, when I understand better! lol

My son does that when he starts talking about PH for the fish tanks., cause he's really really studied it. I just go into another world while he talks, and nod a lot. Then he says, you didn't l isten to a word I said, did you?
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 9, 2008
3:01 AM

Post #5527611

Yes on all counts. I like to mix osmocote in my planting mix. I like to water in my cuttings with the jumpstart, schultz starter plus and peroxide. I also plan to mix all three into my mist solution for aeroponics
Lorraine ask your son to check the ph of your water you use for your plants. Just plain water.

Here is a link for jumpstart.

http://organic-hydroponicsupplies.thebigtomato.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=tbt&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=935878932&Count2=853019356&ProductID=2231&Target=products.asp&gclid=CLuE2OjbzZUCFQ4hnAodjClJig

You may be able to find it cheaper, so please do your homework... yes I said homework...LOL
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

September 9, 2008
12:48 PM

Post #5528583

I've been doing my soil mixes for a while but am never sure on how much osmacote to add since I mix everything in a wheelbarrow--any suggestions?

Which Jumpstart are you using, the granular or liquid? How do you know how far they will go?

Have you tried any mycorrhizae products? I've seen some interesting stuff on it!
I see some of the Happy Frog mixes have it, looks like in the granular form, not sure about the liquid. Any suggestions?
Thanks for the link!
pdoyle23323
Chesapeake, VA
(Zone 7b)

September 9, 2008
6:39 PM

Post #5529985

Dave, Excellent thread! Is it too late to try more cuttings now? I have been trying to propogate Crape Myrtle's. Out of the 20 cuttings, I have 2 that are still going. I am also trying camillia's too. I tried them in the bubbler and they stayed green but no growth,I have now put some in a potting mix and some in sand. I had read you could use sand and I had it on hand so... BUT, I would like try a lot of things but want to use better matierals for a better success rate. My neighbor has an unusual hydrangea I'd like to try. This flats you have pics of (toward the top of the thread) Do you use those for starting your cuttings in or cells? Thanks for all this great information.
Dawn
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 9, 2008
7:28 PM

Post #5530202

Good questions, me too.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 9, 2008
7:54 PM

Post #5530306

I use a liquid jump start but a granular would work better in a mix situation.
The wheel barrow: You may need to eaither measure how many pots of mix is in each load and then add the osmocote based on the number of pots in each mix. It sounds like it would be easier to just add the osmocote to each pot after planting.
I have thought about using the mycorrhizae in a mix it would be a good idea as far as my thinking goes.
The flat ids used for cuttings. it can be used as tiny trans plant. but as far as I am concerned it would be a waste of a step. Just my thinking.
Please let me know if I missed any questions please let me know
Dave
pdoyle23323
Chesapeake, VA
(Zone 7b)

September 9, 2008
8:07 PM

Post #5530351

Too late in the season to try more cuttings?
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

September 9, 2008
11:31 PM

Post #5531205

I am still starting some cuttings, but there are about 2 1/2 months before my first frost. I have had great success rooting camellias and azaleas in forsythe pots. I have never had any root in water although I have heard it can be done.

Dave, is jumpstart the same as quickstart by miracle grow? I haven't been able to locate jumpstart, but the quickstart is a root promoting/transplanting solution.

Today, I started some mandevilla, hibiscus and pineapple sage cuttings, I will let you know how they turn out.

pdoyle23323
Chesapeake, VA
(Zone 7b)

September 9, 2008
11:37 PM

Post #5531239

I think I will try some stuff anyway. You learn from you mistakes like Dave said.
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

September 10, 2008
12:43 AM

Post #5531492

Some cuttings are best taken in late fall and winter anyway (dormant hardwood cuttings for example).


http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-8702.html

http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/CEPublications/pnw0152/pnw0152.html

http://plantpropagation.com/cuttings.htm
pdoyle23323
Chesapeake, VA
(Zone 7b)

September 10, 2008
1:01 AM

Post #5531571

Thanks a lot hcmdole!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 10, 2008
1:18 AM

Post #5531657

Dave what is mycorrhizae? Jeanette Also is the Jump Start the same as B 12?
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 10, 2008
1:25 AM

Post #5531698

Ibartoo, if your pineapple sage roots, PLEASE, let me buy some or trade for some. I am having a fit trying to get some of it. I'm doing a lot of cuttings and maybe I'll have something we can trade.

Hey, that's an idea!! Ok, Dave, I'm sorry, I won't make this harder than it is. lol

Ok, so I could root gardenias and stuff. I want camillias, so are they hard to root? I'll go on a root finding mission. Me and my snips.!
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

September 10, 2008
2:32 AM

Post #5532030

Jeanette, mycorrhizae = a fungus among us, lol

http://www.mycorrhizae.com/

Mycelial Magic
Following is a video of a presentation, "6 Ways That Mushrooms Can Save The World", given by Paul Stamets at the 2008 TED conference in March.
http://www.fungi.com/mycotech/index.html

May make your eyes glaze, but just catch the drift--fascinating stuff really!
pieohmy
Independence, LA
(Zone 8b)

September 10, 2008
2:34 PM

Post #5533549

hcmcdole, my whole yard is an oddity so the eucalyptus should fit right in. They are fairly common here and keep thier form pretty well. They do need good wind protection to stay good looking.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 10, 2008
3:26 PM

Post #5533768

mycorrhizae is a good fungus that helps promote rooting, the fine hairs on the roots. Just off the top of my head. I would keep trying to root it may be a bit late for some of our northern friends but it is also best to do winter cuttings on some of the more woody ornamentals. I will try to locate a source to check on for what is best. Personally I have rooted stuff that was suposed to be winter hardwood with softwood in the spring so I just try everything. Whats the worte thats gonna happen? we learn something. I will be out for a few day personal business to take care of in OKC. I will be back.
Dave
Jan23
Salem Cnty, NJ
(Zone 7b)

September 10, 2008
3:39 PM

Post #5533828

Thanks for the links hcmcdole.

See you when you get back, Dave
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 11, 2008
7:11 PM

Post #5539327

Guess you already knew Dave was outta pocket for a day or so. So I don't need to tell you Dave is outta pocket for a doay or so. lol

I'm so funny I just kill myself.

So mushroom com[ost is good,?
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 11, 2008
7:38 PM

Post #5539399

Where is he how that I need him? I got my dip n grow and now I can't find where he said he used it the strongest. Was that for woody stuff? Or?

Jeanette
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

September 11, 2008
7:44 PM

Post #5539455

Dip 'n' Grow comes with instructions. The strongest is for woody, medium for semi-woody, and weak for soft cuttings.

http://www.dipngrow.com/images/DipN%20Grow%20Instructions.pdf

Kittylover
Carrollton, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 11, 2008
7:51 PM

Post #5539478

Jnette - this is what Dave wrote[quote]Here is what I store my extra rooting hormone. I like to mix my liquid hormone at 5 to 1 dilution. I realize that it may be a bit to strong for some plants, but I don’t want to have 3 or 4 different dilutions and try to keep up with which one is which. As I am preparing the cuttings for sticking I will place them upright in the container so that the node and stem are able to get as much of the hormone as they want. I am not sure if this helps them but I doubt it hurts them.[/quote]


Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 11, 2008
7:54 PM

Post #5539494

Thanks, that is what I was looking for.

Jeanette
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

September 11, 2008
8:28 PM

Post #5539636

Lorraine, I will be glad to share some pineapple sage cuttings with you. I will let you know when they root. If you would like to root some yourself, send me a dmail and we can work it out.
I also have lots of different camellias, azaleas and gardenias. Maybe we can trade something.

Has anyone tried rooting candy corn vine? manietta inflata. I want to try some of that, but I am almost afraid to cut it.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 13, 2008
3:47 PM

Post #5546767

Greetings: Sorry for the long 2 days... LOL... It was a horrid trip but its over O-v-u-r over... LOL... I hope to be able to rant on a bit later today. Kind of wiped out from the trip and all. Thanks for your patience. Any questions ????
Dave
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 13, 2008
11:25 PM

Post #5548218

Glad you're back Dave. Will let you rest up and then read thru all the posts before we start asking more questions. Won't we guys? lol. I heard them say "speak for yourself Jeanette".

Jeanette

Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 14, 2008
4:52 AM

Post #5549509


lol
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 16, 2008
6:53 PM

Post #5559604

Howdy:
I have done a bit of research on aeroponics and "Bublers".
Bublers are the bucket with an airstone that adds oxygen to the water.
Aeroponics as best I can see is the use of a moist with a submerciable pump that sprays water onto the root zone of cuttings.

I believe a combination of both along with the use of h2o2 might prove to work best. Its a bit more costly to set up the first one but adding a few extra chambers should prove to be minimal in cost.
Do we want to here about my idea?... waky as it may be I think the results would prove to be better than either one alone. I would like to tie up any outstanding questions before we move on. When we do move on I will start another thread. Its just easier to work with when its smaller.
Dave
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

September 16, 2008
8:01 PM

Post #5559906

One more question first please? Does it matter what time of day to take cuttings, as to sap and moisture content?

Sorry if this was covered earlier. And yes, please start a new thread when changing topics.

Thanks so much!
robcorreia
San Diego, CA
(Zone 10b)

September 16, 2008
8:56 PM

Post #5560125

Of course Dave will know better but I've always heard it's best to do it in the morning, when the stems are still turgid.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 16, 2008
9:44 PM

Post #5560279

Rob you are correct that the mornings are prime time to take cuttings. I try my best to take them in the am as it cooler and easier to work as well as getting better results. I believe that cuttings taken in the afternoon especially in the heat mid summer take longer to root out due to stress put on the cuttings. I know we used to take cuttings in the nursery all year round but that was zone 9/10. I feel it was more zone 10 due to its proximety to the gulf of mexico. It is best to give the cuttings some shade from the direct sun as well, 25% - 30% is my prefered shade for propagation purposes.
Thank you for the input rob. I feel this is more a disscussion than a dictatorship as I have seen a couple run that way. No one knows everything. Just my opinion.
Dave
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 16, 2008
10:56 PM

Post #5560547

Dave, I've used the bubbler and seen the aeroponic setup but haven't tried it. I found it really interesting and am looking forward to the discussion on it. Thanks so much for this opportunity.

Also, as a former dial-uper I think the folks still using it will love you for it.

Jeanette

Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 17, 2008
4:20 PM

Post #5563678

I will start the new thread on monday that way I am fully recovered from all my acrobatics Ive done over the past few days... Just kidding its been a bit of recovery from over doing it a bit last week. I guess all questions have been answered. except of course the meaning of life... mayo or miriacle whip, margerine or butter ...parkayyyy...
Dave
robcorreia
San Diego, CA
(Zone 10b)

September 17, 2008
4:25 PM

Post #5563686

LOL!
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

September 17, 2008
6:16 PM

Post #5564074

Here's another, "One more question", LOL.

I just finished 5 trays, 2-Japanese Pittosporum, 1- Winter Honeysuckle, 1- Carolina Jessamine and the last was a Confederate Jasmine. The Jasmine had white sticky stuff so I placed the cuttings in water & H2O2--it really didn't help. Should I have waited for them to dry? I assume I contaminated the mix, correct? Should cuttings that weep only use the powder form?

Thanks again,
Vi
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 18, 2008
5:34 AM

Post #5566781

That was a good question. I've wondered about that too with my jasmine. So far, I'm only getting about 50% of mine to root. Maybe I am taking the cuttings too early.

Ibartoo, I would love to trade some things. Maybe you could d mail and tell me some things you are looking for, and I'll send a list of some stuff I have.
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

September 18, 2008
12:23 PM

Post #5567239

I too have had problems with confederate jasmine. I never thought about letting it callous, but it makes sense. I have taken cuttings at all times of the spring and summer and had less than ideal rooting success. Maybe I will try letting some callous now and see if that makes a difference.

Lorraine, I would be happy to trade, I don't really know of anything in particular I am looking for right now, I will grow just about anything I can get my hands on. LOL I will check your list, just let me know what you would like.
Azalea
Jonesboro, GA
(Zone 7b)

September 18, 2008
2:19 PM

Post #5567692

I have found that it is best to let any plant that "weeps" Milky juice, like Jasmine, Poinsettia, etc or succulents, dry several hours or overnight before trying to root them. For these type plants, I use a loose well draining soil mixture rather than water.
violabird
Barnesville, GA
(Zone 8a)

September 18, 2008
3:39 PM

Post #5568072

Rats, I wonder if I should pull them out, recut, let dry and try again? It seems hard to use up that dip-n-grow!
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 18, 2008
4:06 PM

Post #5568146

Howdy: It makes sense to let it dry. we never did though and got great success, but this was on a mist bench with great sun and optimum conditions. I have not tried letting the cuttings dry from the sap. I would go a head and let the cuttings stay VI. I always use a small amount of mixed hormone so I don't worry about contamination. as long as your stock is healthy there should not be an issue and even if one crops up a little fungicide will usually knock it out. I will check a couple of reference books on sappy cuttings and get back to you. I have one on poinsettias produced a long time ago by the poinsettia patent holders. I would think they would have the correct info. Good call azalea, TY.
Dave
Azalea
Jonesboro, GA
(Zone 7b)

September 18, 2008
7:40 PM

Post #5568933

I am fortunate to have a long fence covered with Conf Jasmine - the most successful and easy way to propagete more is to let the lower branches be on the ground, I scratch off part of the outer layer and use a U shaped wire or a rock over that to keep it in the soil. Then in a few weeks, you will have roots there and can cut it off the Momma plant. Much simpler than trying to keep the soil and water right in pots, at least for me. I am basically lazy and let Mother Nature take care of the 'feeding" requirements. I have tried rooting cuttings, but never was succesful.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 18, 2008
8:42 PM

Post #5569135

I am trying that aproach with a huge pink madavillia. It too is sappy but the stems are so long between the nodes it makes propagation almost impossible. I guess I could just totally whack it back and get the shorter nodes from the inner plant. Oh well time will tell on what I end up doing. Hey is it as beautiful a weather pattern there as it is here? lows in the 50-60s high's upper 70s - lower 80's sweet.Its gonna be a rough winter. Look for the new thread monday. I will post the link. I am recovering from last week. I have health issues and it takes me a few days to get right enough to crank out one of my long winded technical discussions.
Thanks to everyone for your patience
Dave
robcorreia
San Diego, CA
(Zone 10b)

September 18, 2008
10:38 PM

Post #5569458

I just wanted to add my 2 cents on the one thing I'm always successful with: succulents. I ALWAYS let the cuttings dry for at least a few days before potting them up.
Hope this helps!
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 18, 2008
10:46 PM

Post #5569484

Got a question and it just dawned on me that this is what this forum is all about:

My sister gave me a lantana today, not big, in a pot, but winter is coming and she doesn't winter things over. I have never had one before so I don't know what those things are that look like they should have seeds to ripen. OR, should I take cuttings. I would like to start several small plants in case I lose the mother. Also, the same with verbena. I have several but I can't find the seeds. I put a little bag over one but there was nothing there when it dried up.

Anybody know? Jeanette
robcorreia
San Diego, CA
(Zone 10b)

September 18, 2008
11:22 PM

Post #5569565

If there was nothing in there it hasn't been pollinated...right?
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 19, 2008
1:10 AM

Post #5569953

I don't understand the question. What do you mean?

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 19, 2008
1:11 AM

Post #5569960

I don't understand the question. What do you mean?

Or, were you talking to me?

Jeanette

MitchF
Lindsay, OK
(Zone 7a)

September 19, 2008
1:15 AM

Post #5569984

Lantana is one of the fastest plants to do cuttings of - take a simple stem with two set of adult leave and the branch tip. Cut off the branch tip all the way to the second set of leaves. Pinch off the bottom set of the two sets of leaves. Place in a moist rooting mix and keep in part shade until rooted - keep moist and this time of year in a sunny window indoors.

4 weeks later - roots galore.
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 19, 2008
2:32 AM

Post #5570367

If anyone does a lantana cutting ,could you maybe take a picture of it.? I swear, I've never gotten one of them to root and everyone tells me how easy it is! I've got to be doing something wrong.
LiliMerci
North of Atlanta, GA
(Zone 8a)

September 19, 2008
3:30 AM

Post #5570593

How about butterfly bush? Are they easy to root from cuttings?
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 19, 2008
3:55 AM

Post #5570662

I used lantana in the demo with pics. its the yellow one...LoL
Rob you are correct as well as Mitch. they self pollinate like rabbits (ooops the butterflies pollinate them...lol)and they are one of the easiest to take cuttings from. the seeds look like peper corns only shiney
Verbena is quick as well.
Vi ... I have a bunch of different small plants I hope to winter over my only catch to this is if we get hit with a bad snow storm followed by a longer than normal cold spell. But I like to live on the edge.
I have not done any butterflybush but I would think it would be easy as well. I always like the 3 color bush. the magazines make it sound so magical...hmmm they wouldn't have gone to the trouble to graft them... naaaa too small a stem.
I will apolagize if my humor is a bit off tonight as I am a bit off key myself.
have a great evening
Dave
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 19, 2008
5:30 AM

Post #5570850

LOL, Rob, NOW I got the question. You are right!! But, someone else on another thread said that she gets the seeds from the verbena but each flower head has only one seed and it is hard to find in all the chafe. Now I am going to have to go back and ask her if she meant the whole head with the small flowers. Maybe I misunderstood, but I doubt it since she said they were so hard to find in all the stuff.

Thank you Mitch!! Now I am excited to try this. Lantana and verbena sure look a lot alike. The flowers. So, it only makes sense that they would also be easy to start. This year there are so many beautiful colors in verbena here. You guys probably have had them for a long time, but we sure haven't.

Going to try it tomorrow. Jeanette
MitchF
Lindsay, OK
(Zone 7a)

September 19, 2008
1:14 PM

Post #5571475

Right - and that is the basic way I start a lot of my flowers, only woody stems do I treat diffrent.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 19, 2008
3:54 PM

Post #5572242

Ok Dave, or anyone, what is the difference between annuals, which as I understand them are hybridized to give a 3 or 4 month burst to grow, bloom, and die, in the meantime producing seeds from the blooms, and plants that would be annuals to northern climates but what I think, probably bloom year around in southern climates if given nutrients and light?

Or, do I have an illusion of what southern growing is all about?

Also Mitch, tell us about how you root woody cuttings.

Jeanette
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

September 19, 2008
4:17 PM

Post #5572319

There are many tender perennials that are treated as annuals. You can bring these indoors if you have the right conditions (light, humidity, room) to get them through winter but most times it is best to toss them and start again the next year unless they are rare and cost more than the typical bedding plant. Coleus and impatiens (this includes New Guinea impatiens) are good examples. Most houseplants are tender perennials - they would be annuals if left outdoors in cold winter areas but may be considered weeds in the tropics.
MitchF
Lindsay, OK
(Zone 7a)

September 19, 2008
4:24 PM

Post #5572348

Winter Method -

Pencil sized cuttings in early fall, Tie them into bundles and plant the whole bundle in a moist sand tray outdoors. They need to be fully coveredwith sand and then mulched in for winter. In spring once you see green on the trees dig up your bundle and there will be roots, Set out in trays for one year and most will root with no issue if they have roots. This is the way I do grapes, most buches, crepe myrtles, some trees, etc. I get some going to sell locally.

Early summer Method -

Cut soft but firming stems of the woody material and pinch out the new leaf growth leaving some leaves at the top of the cutting. Place in moist sand or soiless mix under a misting system or in a covered high humidity system (Like a 2 liter cut in half and the halves taped back together once the sand and cuttings are inside - make sure the cuttings do not touch the sides or this will not work right. ) Leave in pot but bumping up and they will grow for a year or two in pots before bring sold or set out.

Mulberries, Forsythia, some roses, rose of sharron, and mugwort

Take foot long pencil sized cuttings of plant in the early spring whne the buds are starting to appear. Place in the garden in the spot you want the plant, burry all but the top 3 inches of the material. Mulch well and keep watered - they will root and grow right there in the spot. Only change is for the roses I add a glass bottle on the top of the cutting and this keeps high humidity witht he rosr cutting until the cuttings have two sets of leaves, slowly take off and there you go - rooted and in place.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 19, 2008
5:28 PM

Post #5572554

The true deffinition of an annual is a plant that grows sets seed and dies some times it doen't set seed. In the south a lot of annuals fall into the half hardy annual where they reseed themselves. I had impatients that would get ratty looking so I would wack them back to get a betterlooking plant and the new seedlings would fill in. Impatients were fun seed pods, when they are ripe they will explode if even slightly touched and go everywhere.
hcmcdole is right about the tropical house plants our common pothos , wandering jew and heart leaf philodendron are all ground covers in the tropics that will choke out a lot of plants if allowed to do so. They are commonly used in south florida on golf courses for interest in under the live oaks, It make a park like setting with little care.
Mitch thank you for your input. Your method is one I have seen done but have little practicle working knowledge of. I think its good to explore the other areas that I am unable to cover. I think we DGers as a group have a great vast knowledge base. we run into issues when egos get in the way. Just my humble opinion
Dave
MitchF
Lindsay, OK
(Zone 7a)

September 19, 2008
5:58 PM

Post #5572668

Dave - You are right, everything I have learned about doing that I have learned off Daves from one teacher or another. Have you meet Frostweed on Daves? She (Josephine) took me under her wings into rooting so many things in the last few years.. It has been a fun ride and I have enjoyed standing on this side of things and being able to help others now with the same results.

LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 19, 2008
8:29 PM

Post #5573164

You guys are great. I don't even feel bad about asking my dummie questions, and I do some places.!!! lol

You know, David, after I sent that post, I remembered that's what you posted. So, back I go. Maybe it's too late to do rootings?

Could I just put the rooting hormone on, (dip and grow), put them next to the mother plant outside?
LorraineR
Gilmer, TX
(Zone 8a)

September 19, 2008
8:42 PM

Post #5573204

If omeone missed Daves inst. on the lantana, you should go see the pictures!!! REally lays it out well.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 19, 2008
9:43 PM

Post #5573460

Lorraine: I don't think it would be a bad idea on the hormone next to the mother plant. I am even thinking of doing some "stick"propagation. I have a few toughies here I want to try. A red leafed norway maple, a grn leafed Norway maple and some others. I would be so stoked dude if I could get them to root. like radical dude totally...LOL
Mitch: I have enjoyed sharing everything I have learned along the way with my new friends on DG. Its been so fun to hear the excitement in the posts. Its made me look some stuff up again and rethink my stance on a few things I thought so strongly about. its been kind of an adventure.
Dave
MitchF
Lindsay, OK
(Zone 7a)

September 20, 2008
12:21 AM

Post #5573979

The adventures along the way are the real pleasures of life.

Dave - have you ever rooted with tissue culture in bags? I have a thread on here asking about it and it just crossed my mind you may have already done it. TC is my next area to go into and try to learn the ins and outs.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 20, 2008
12:26 AM

Post #5574004

Lorraine, Dave, where is the post on the lantana? Wonder how I missed it.

Who is Frostweed Mitch? What forum was she on?

Jeanette
MitchF
Lindsay, OK
(Zone 7a)

September 20, 2008
1:45 AM

Post #5574391

Texas and Native - she is a great cutting guru - really I think she can about grow anything from cuttings.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 20, 2008
4:46 AM

Post #5575053

I'll have to see if I can find her posts. Thanks Mitch.

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 21, 2008
2:42 PM

Post #5580178

Mitch:
I have looked at tissue culture quite deeply and have a few books on the subject. I found a great web site kitchen culture. they sell a kit for home tissue culture and it looks to be fairly straight forward with about a $200.00 cost to get started. I am hopeful that in the next few years I can give it a whirl. I need to get settled into our new house and concentrait on the landscape for a while before I try a new area. My wife would go bonkers if I started something new right now. I truely believe it would be the ole padded room for her or a pine box for me.

here is a link

http://www.kitchenculturekit.com/index.htm

Please keep us posted if you do this or if you feel like waiting a year possibly a joint thread on the experience of doing the kit? I really think its preaty easy once you have the tools and cookbook.
Dave
MitchF
Lindsay, OK
(Zone 7a)

September 21, 2008
5:31 PM

Post #5580729

Dave - It wopuld be Spring here anyway, so waiting a year no problem!

I have dreams of selling plants oneday - at least that is what I tell myself.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 21, 2008
6:18 PM

Post #5580944

So what the tissue culture does for you is give you quantity to sell. Is that the only advantage of it?

In other words, what makes you want to do this other than that?

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 21, 2008
7:15 PM

Post #5581157

Personally I think the taking a small part of a plant and growing plants from the cells that grow and divide. to me its the satifaction of making something out of very little. Its not a money thing for me either it more a love of plants. You can grow hundreds if not thousands of plants off one culture. it takes space time and energy, plus some love of plants and science.
I have been starting seeds of daylilies with some success. I realize it may take 3 years for a good bloom but I am hopeful that I will get some nice new daylilies that I may want to clone for either sales or sharing with all my friends. I luckily over bought last year as my seed budget this fall is nonexsistant except for the occasional item I might pick up. I have atleast 20 different cossed daylilies I just cant wait to see the flower on them.
So what are you wanting to tissue culture? Mitch you know we all think that. it takes a lot of time, energy, hard work, and growing space. I think if it can be reduced down to a more affordable price the public will get on board and buy them. Its just finding the right outlet. ebay is one that has worked for a lot of folks. I have done some ebay but it seems hit and miss. oh well I just be a po boy workin in da dirt. LOL
Dave
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 21, 2008
8:36 PM

Post #5581378

Dave, Mitch, I now absolutely nothing about TC. Got a few questions about it.

1. How does it work?

2. What I think it is: Copying one certain plant. (like cuttings) But no cuttings or seeds involved. So???? how?????

3. No hybridizing involved.

4. But I don't know how it is done.

Many years ago my mother bought TC roses. A couple. She was so excited by them but I guess at the time I just wasn't interested enough to ask her what they were.

She passed away 11 years go at the age 86. So, I know TC has been around for quite a while.

So then my next question is:

Do you want to do it out of curiosity? To sell? And, as you say, do you want to sell small like ebay or go big?

I ask these questions out of curiosity. lol

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 21, 2008
9:35 PM

Post #5581649

Jnette
I just curious mostly. I don't think I could do big as I have too many limitataions. I don't really know where it would leed. but thats what life is an adventure try something if it works where does it go???
Tissue culture is an exact "clone" of a parent plant that is done at a cellular level. its basic chemistry with a mix of horticulture added. I just want to see if I can make it work and what I can do with it. beyond that its just play time. I can't speak for what mitch wants to do. I am wanting just to cover costs and what ever else is a bonus. of course if it grew into a multi million dollar thing hey who am I to complain... yea right... a snow balls chance in ... oh to dream ...tap atp atp...dave wake up...lol
ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

September 21, 2008
10:32 PM

Post #5581918

it sounds fascinating, but I have a hard time keeping up with all the new methods I want to try. I tend to go out and get the stuff for all the new methods and then never get them started. If however you do the TC and it works, please let me know how you did it.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 21, 2008
11:29 PM

Post #5582153

Ibartoo you sound like me. I buy everything that comes down the Pike. However, they truly don't work when they are left in the bottle on the shelf.

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 21, 2008
11:46 PM

Post #5582205

I used to be that way. we adopted the "WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH IT?" "where are you going to put it ? and when are you going to use it? if any answer is too far out or a not sure then no we don't get it. I have like 6 different hobbies and any one can take hundreds of dollars real quickly, as most hobbies do.
I am hopeing to get a small group together for next fall to do a co-op on tissue culture and do a group thing. I just have to get some things settled with my health. I know you can do just about any plant you would like to clone. So lets here it what do you think you might like to clone?
I know with Lorraine it would be coleus but they root like weeds so why bother. I was torn between hostas and daylilies but I seem to be having better luck with the daylilies so I am going that route. Plus I have set aside 2 beds for daylilies on the north and south side of the house. they both get full sun most of the day. I will see how it does on the north side this winter as the sun sinks to the south.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 22, 2008
12:19 AM

Post #5582336

Dave, you disappointed me right there. That's not fair. If Lorraine wanted to do coleuses that is her hobby. The whole thing was to try the tissue culture. Just like she wanted to try the bubbler. No matter what it is, if she wanted to get in on the co-op she should be able to.

Ok, off my soapbox. Sorry, Jeanette
MitchF
Lindsay, OK
(Zone 7a)

September 22, 2008
2:38 AM

Post #5583000

For me it would be to get into small sale in time - it would maybe pay for itself in time. The thought of getting to spread good plants that I love to more people is the biggest reason that i would love to TC, and the fact that I have rather bad luck with some seeds and would like to TC them for my own collections instead.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 22, 2008
2:42 AM

Post #5583028

Jeanette:
You are correct and I did not mean it the way it sounds. I don't want anyone to try something just because it seems what ever to someone else. I know its going to cost $200.00 to buy the kit, dvd & cd stuff plus what ever it costs for the rest of the stuff to get started. Lorraine may be able to manipulate the cells and make a new color of leaves. Who knows what anyone of us can do when we relly put our minds to it. Nothing to be sorry about. it just pointed out my ignorance.
I think if we get enough people together maybe we can do a short course on line together. just a thought, might even get a discount on x number of kits. It would be nice to get everyone together and doing it live but I don't think we can all meet in one spot. I know mitch is as central as can be, we have a few texans, and others from the surrounding states of oklahoma. I don't know just rolling it arround for disscussion. Anyone interested please let us know so I can start putting it together.
So jeanette what would you clone?
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 22, 2008
2:47 AM

Post #5583051

mitch I kind of want to stay the same with my stuff. small and enough to pay for itself instead of out bound cash and not much coming in. I managed to sell a few seedlings this year but it was more just a start. I learned a lot this 1st year. mostly shipping but it was fun. I am hopeful to be able to get a bit more going next year. i would like to try some other stuff not listed on their site.
Dave
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 22, 2008
3:27 AM

Post #5583202

Nothing really Dave. I like such a variety of things that I don't collect any one thing. I don't have room. I suppose I would certainly join in and have fun with you all tho if it didn't cost too much and we all shared in the expense some way. Can you figure that one out?

ibartoo
Pawleys Island, SC

September 22, 2008
1:10 PM

Post #5584205

I would definitely try it. I am still working on the aeroponics thingy though.. I found several patterns online, I just haven't built them. I need to get everything caught up so I can work on just that. ( ok, that may be a pipedream but I need to at least get somethings done.. ).
MitchF
Lindsay, OK
(Zone 7a)

September 22, 2008
1:56 PM

Post #5584375

I think we have the starts of a great group ^_^
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 22, 2008
4:56 PM

Post #5585159

I would be more interested in the aeroponics than the TC, but would not turn down the chance to learn about the tc too. LOL, like I am going to have so much time to do all of this.

And, I am trying to get my cuttings all taken today 'cause it is suppose to be in the 20s tonight.

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 22, 2008
8:23 PM

Post #5585903

ouch thats chilly
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 22, 2008
8:34 PM

Post #5585952

ok here we go. here is the link to the new thread. everyone is welcome to either lurk or join in on the disscussion. I don't feel anyone person knows everything about a specific subject. some are more knowledgable than others and we welcome the added input as I know I need the help.
Dave
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 22, 2008
8:56 PM

Post #5586055

Where's the link Dave? Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 22, 2008
9:08 PM

Post #5586101

ooops ... lol

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/905796/
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 23, 2008
7:20 AM

Post #5588002

THIS PART OF THE THREADS IS NOW FINISHED. PLEASE FOLLOW THE ABOVE LINK TO THE NEW THREAD THAT CONTINUES OUR DISSCUSSSION.
IF YOU HAVE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DMAIL ME.
Thanks Dave


PS. IS THIS PARADISE OR WHAT?

Thumbnail by Pughbear7
Click the image for an enlarged view.

zorba
Lake George, MN
(Zone 3a)

September 23, 2008
5:38 PM

Post #5589462

Paradise is any place where there are no politicians!
robcorreia
San Diego, CA
(Zone 10b)

September 23, 2008
8:47 PM

Post #5590148

haha, DITTO!
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 23, 2008
9:14 PM

Post #5590262

amen
Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

September 24, 2008
12:35 AM

Post #5591047

Preachin' to the choir, Zorba... say it aGAIN!
Patriotboy247
Jenison, MI
(Zone 6b)

April 2, 2009
8:08 PM

Post #6355661

Bump
RandZ
Gatesville, TX

August 24, 2009
7:30 PM

Post #6983688

Heya: I should have my greenhouse ready in about a month. I am buying an exahaust fan and intake fan on a thermostat. The floor is pea gravel. As I live in central Texas, I am looking for a sight to buy a good commercial mister with at least a 5 second spray. I possible, it should have two timing devices for two separate outlet hose. If anybody knows of a good site, I would be greatly appreciative.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

August 26, 2009
8:42 PM

Post #6991467

Hi: I will have to do some looking but it should be pretty straight forward.
Is the system one that is run off the garden hose?
I set one up on a delayed timer with a low volt control valve for pvc (sprinkler system type)
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

September 6, 2009
7:14 PM

Post #7032902

Hi, I just found this thread. I am having trouble propagation Abutilon 'Voodoo'. I have a couple others that I have made starts from but don't seem to have any luck with this one.
Thanks for any help you can give me. : )
Lynn
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 7, 2009
7:16 PM

Post #7036966

you have mail
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

September 7, 2009
7:47 PM

Post #7037046

Thank you for your help Dave. I'll let you know how it came out.
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 7, 2009
9:29 PM

Post #7037445


Now that you mention it, I have often wondered what the difference is between the Abutilon seeds you can buy from the seed companies and one like my daughter has that grows almost like a huge bushy vine. She cuts it back every spring and it still gets big and blooms all year.

She is in Seattle, zone 8, and has it as a house plant.

Jeanette
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

September 7, 2009
11:59 PM

Post #7037985

My Abutilon Voodoo is planted out side for 3 years now in zone 8. It's leaves are huge. It is slow to come out of hybernation, but once it does it takes off.

Thumbnail by valleylynn
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 8, 2009
12:30 AM

Post #7038180

I wonder why you have problems with this one but not the others.
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

September 8, 2009
3:32 PM

Post #7040283

I'm not sure. I am going to try again. This one is so hardy (my zone 8) and spectacular (the leaves are so big). I would like to put another one in another spot in the front yard.

Thumbnail by valleylynn
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

September 9, 2009
5:57 AM

Post #7043179

I still wonder what the difference is between those you have and the ones you get seeds from Parks etc.
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

September 9, 2009
3:34 PM

Post #7044076

I'm sorry Jeanette, I misunderstood your question. : )
Voodoo will grow in the house also. There are so many varieties, different colored flowers, leaf shapes & sizes. But just about all of them make good house plants. I have two that I keep in the house (different varieties from Voodoo). Voodo just gets so big with it's large leaves that I decided to plant it outside since I don't have very much space in the house for plants. The really nice thing about the abutilons is that you can have them in the house for winter flowers and then put them outside during the growing season, year round blooming plant. : )
This is one that I keep in the house. Next year I will plant a start from it outside to see how it makes it through the winter.
Lynn

Thumbnail by valleylynn
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Pagancat
(Sheryl) Gainesboro, TN
(Zone 6b)

September 9, 2009
9:26 PM

Post #7045173

They're beautiful, Lynn - but don't they have a lot of bug problems? Outside, at least?
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

September 9, 2009
9:57 PM

Post #7045270

So far I haven't had any trouble with bugs, not even slugs. : )
Hope that continues.
I will be planting the Pink Bella and the Varigated one outside this next Spring 2010.
I will take cuttings for the house just in case they don't make it through the Winter of '2010 - 2011.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 10, 2009
10:00 PM

Post #7048889

Yes Lynn they are beautiful. If you would like to test hardyness in to zone 6b I would be happy to test for you. I hope you get the issues solvedlately I have been running my stuff on the dry side but I also have been doing a lot of seeds (lots of different plants) lately.
I love the pics...the voodoo is such a beautiful plant. most of what I am familiar with are a weeping type that grows in hanging baskets and smaller plant types. where do I get voodoo seeds from? anyhints would be deeply apreciated.
Dave
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

September 10, 2009
10:18 PM

Post #7048944

High Dave. If you would like me to send you a couple of cuttings I could do that (with your knowledge you can probably get them to root without any trouble). So far it hasn't set any seed. I keep watching. I know here they need to go in the ground as soon as frost has passed for the growing season. That way they have enough time to really get their root ball growing. They die back to the ground in the winter and come back around the middle or end of June for me. Once they break dormancy they really take off growing.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 10, 2009
10:52 PM

Post #7049066

I would love to do that. let me know how much postage is so I can send it to you.
David Walton
7512 s 67 east ave
Tulsa, ok 74133

Dave
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

September 10, 2009
11:21 PM

Post #7049169

Okay, now walk me through doing this so they get to you in usable condition. : )
I've never done this before (sending just fresh cuttings). Don't worry about postage, it won't be enough to worry about. : )
I have a few seed pods from the pink one if you would like me to send those at the same time. I have never seen the seed so don't know if they are viable. Maybe you can test them out. I don't know what they look like (how big, etc).
Lynn
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

September 11, 2009
2:43 PM

Post #7051091

Good morning Dave. Did some research on the abutilon. I quess some of them can be difficult to start from cuttings. I pulled one of the pink seed capsules apart and found the tiny seeds : ).
Went out and checked on the Voodoo. There are a couple of places that look like they are going to make a seed head. Will watch over them and send to you. Everything I read said they start very easily from seed. : )
Will send as soon as they are ripened.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 11, 2009
3:11 PM

Post #7051217

Hi LYNN:
I appreciate the seeds I Ilook forward to getting them. I will let you know what happens with them in the spring once its warm enough to start them. Please let me know if there is ever anyhing I have that you might want.
Dave
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

September 11, 2009
3:32 PM

Post #7051334

It would be very interesting to see if they can make it in your growing zone. : )
Lynn
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 11, 2009
3:34 PM

Post #7051340

I look forward to trying them.
Dave
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

September 15, 2009
4:38 AM

Post #7065723

Keep your fingers crossed. It looks like the Voodoo is going to set seed on two flowers. This one does not seem to set seeds easily like the smaller leaved varieties.
Lynn
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 15, 2009
2:44 PM

Post #7066666

oh yea.. I am crossing my finger's toes knocking on my head...(wood)lol and anything else to make it viable.
Dave
WormsLovSharon
Las Vegas, NV

January 25, 2010
1:35 AM

Post #7493086

Bump
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

January 25, 2010
1:44 AM

Post #7493121

Hi Sharon. What is Bump? : )
Lynn
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

January 25, 2010
3:12 AM

Post #7493470

yes whats a bump ... besides what thedarn moles leave in the yard???

meadowyck

meadowyck
Brooksville, FL
(Zone 9a)

January 25, 2010
3:20 AM

Post #7493491

bump is to move a thread so it comes up on top again after it has been a while since anyone posted.

Janet

so bump again...
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

January 25, 2010
3:34 AM

Post #7493533

Yeah, I know what a Bump is now. : )
Hi Dave. How did those Abutilon cuttings do for you?
I made cuttings the first of Dec of Voodoo just before our 10 degree weather hit. I still can't believe it, but they took and are growing in the house in a window. : ) It never did set seed.
Lynn
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

January 25, 2010
5:55 AM

Post #7493940

Lynn, how did you start them, just in a glass of water in the window? That is really neat. I am in the process of building a cloner. I am anxious to get started. I want to try the woody stuff. But, I think I will have to wait until it is warmer here and the plants are more in the mood to grow. Your zone 8 should be in full swing by now.

Dave did your Voodoos root? How cool.
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

January 25, 2010
6:18 AM

Post #7493973

Jnette, I just cut them in pieces with a leaf or two on each piece. I used rooting hormone and stuck them in a pot of MG and put a clean plastic veggie bag (produce from the store) over them. It sure did work great. I wasn't sure it would work because it was the first part of Dec. The plant didn't look like it was going dormant yet, so I went ahead and did it. I don't think it would work to well with the ones in the house right now because they aren't actively growing. I will make starts from the other three I have this Spring, then I will plant them outdoors along with Voodoo. It turns out that they are hardy here in our area.
I am new to doing cuttings so am very excited about this working. A friend here in Dallas taught me how to do it.
RandZ
Gatesville, TX

January 25, 2010
10:11 PM

Post #7496260

Heya Folks: I just recieved a batch of podocarpus macrophylla (japanese yew and/or buddhist pine) seed. Has anyone had any success in getting babies from these seeds? And if so, what is your prescription?
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

January 25, 2010
10:29 PM

Post #7496324

Yes Lynn, making mini greenhouses can start almost any plants. When you take it out did you acclimate it to the dry air?
valleylynn
Dallas, OR
(Zone 8b)

January 25, 2010
10:40 PM

Post #7496351

I started out uncovering them for about an hour then recovering them. Just kept increasing the time and watching to see how they reacted. If they looked stressed I recovered them. They have been without cover for almost a month now. I think next week I will transplant them to individual pots. I have a lot to learn in this field, will appreciate any help I can get. : )
Out of 7 cuttings I have 4 living rooted ones. : )

This message was edited Jan 29, 2010 11:44 PM
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

January 29, 2010
9:41 PM

Post #7509754

Hi Lynn:
I just chexked on them. I think it was the cold snap we had that got to them. they were on a shelf in the garage where everyone else is and they seem to be doing nothing. I lost a few things with that snap. I still have the seeds to try and I will do them next month when I am doing a lot more seeds. I wish I had an andwer for the cuttings they just seem to curl up. I have had to run the garage a bit cooler during the cold snap as the propane heater eats up the little bottles. I am getting 4 hours out of two which run 4 dollars. I will let you know when the seeds germinate
Dave
Jnette
Northeast, WA
(Zone 5a)

January 30, 2010
1:14 AM

Post #7510457

Dave, aren't you paying for the containers of those propanes? Why not use the container off of your bbq?? That is terrible what you are spending.

Jeanette
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

January 31, 2010
12:33 AM

Post #7513585

Yes they are 2 bucks each. I just have to hold out for another year or so and then we should be able to buy a real Gas garage heater
Dave
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

September 8, 2010
12:57 PM

Post #8087532

bump
merrymath
Morrisville, PA
(Zone 6b)

September 12, 2010
6:54 PM

Post #8095621

[quote="Pughbear7"]Trim the leaves remaining on the cutting. This lowers the transpiration rate by lowering the leaf surface area. I like to coat the cuttings stem surface half way between the nodes. This allows the plant enough stem to keep the leaves off the soil in the cell. I like to plant the cuttings at the middle point of the cell at a depth that is half way from the top to the bottom.

This message was edited Aug 28, 2008 12:27 PM[/quote]

question ...coat the cutting stem surface half way ...WITH WHAT??

MARY
WormsLovSharon
Las Vegas, NV

October 4, 2010
11:13 PM

Post #8138548

Rooting Gel.
gapeahen
Donna in Douglas, GA
(Zone 8b)

October 17, 2010
9:10 PM

Post #8161556

Powered, gel or liquid root hormones.
Pughbear7
Tulsa, OK
(Zone 6b)

October 17, 2010
9:20 PM

Post #8161567

Donna: Is this a question? If so I prefer the liquid as I can mix different strength's as I need it. The gels don't give the freedon from what I have read on them. Now some powders are mixed with water and they are great. They come in 3 strength's so you need to keep all 3 unless you are just doing specific crops.
Oh yea welcome to the group. sorry if I was delayed in responding I sometimes miss the original thread. we are now here http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1131254/
we do discuss whats relavent at the moment to each responder but there is personal chat because many of the members are like family to me and we all look out for each other.
I hope this helps. if not feel free to dmail me or email me at Pughbear7@hotmail.com
Dave
gapeahen
Donna in Douglas, GA
(Zone 8b)

October 17, 2010
9:44 PM

Post #8161597

[quote="merrymath"]

question ...coat the cutting stem surface half way ...WITH WHAT??

MARY[/quote]

Just answering Marys question. Grow It is a liquid or Root tone powered.
Have use bought with good success rates. Thanks for the welcome, it been a
while since I've posted. Busy propagating plants for the spring sale. I'm prorogation lots
of salvia with a few other perennials. Gotta get stock up for website store.
www.vincentgardens.com

Thank You for the welcome!
Donna Vincent
Mangogirl
Jacksonville, FL
(Zone 9a)

April 13, 2012
4:52 PM

Post #9081462

[quote="Pughbear7"]I like to coat the cuttings stem surface half way between the nodes. This allows the plant enough stem to keep the leaves off the soil in the cell.[/quote]

Great information! Question: With what do you coat them?
Eglantyne
Gardiner, ME
(Zone 5a)

April 30, 2012
1:16 PM

Post #9104189

BUMP ...this is such a great forum with so much information !!
***
I use BONTONE Rooting Powder on my rose cuttings,have not done any flowers/plants in a long time so probably someone will jump in and tell you more.
Dean_W
Central Texas, TX
(Zone 8b)

April 30, 2012
5:27 PM

Post #9104576

[quote="Pughbear7"]Hi I am looking for my camera. As A lot of you know we moved last month and finding anything is like a needle in a hay stack. The standard answer is its in a box in the garage... LOL The starter fertilize I refered to earlier is called Jump start and I got it from Advanced nutrientsc. com. I am in no way recomending this company but they seem knowledgable and eager to help. It is a fomulation ofthiamine mononitrate, fulvic acid, humic acid and sea weed extract. I have a huge phamplet I down loaded off the internet that I plan to reread and share its tips.
In a nut shell I believe these chemicals, fertilizers and/or any of this stuff will help. The jump start can be applied as a foliar as well as mixed into the water in the tank.
I will go further into detail on how to properly build a system like lorraine has started using stuff she has at home. I f you would like me to lay it out with pictures and details please let me know. I realize this has moved from soil based propagation to a more hydroponic style. Its just what works for you. I am planning to set my system up and try several different plants to see which works best.
I plan to try azalea, Carolina jasmine (yellow) - Gelsemium sempervirens, rose of sharon - Hibiscus syriacus, crape myrtle - Lagastromia indica, barberry - Berberis thunbergii , foster's holly - Ilex spp, burford holly, forsythia(should be easy), abelia grandiflora, tropical bleeding heart vine, Cats whiskers, sweet potatoe vine. I relize some of these are among the easier things to root but I want to give the system a good range of plants to try. Pictures will follow as I will find the camera this weekend.
This may be my last post for a few days as I have some things I must take care of, along with the computer needing to go in for a check up.
Please let me know who wants the aeroponics discussion. If its only a few people I will have to do it one on one or another thread at a later date.
Here is a pic of my greenhouse last june before we moved I will show pics soon of the new place ment and bench construction.
Please do not hesatate to ask questions. The only dumb question is the one not asked. We all have to start some where. Please let me know on the aeroponics
Dave[/quote]

Wow! Dave, that looks like my greenhouse. I thought someone took a picture of it. I built a similar shelf and put misters in too.

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