| Author | Content |
dybbuk
Chicago, IL
December 30, 2008
05:29 PM Post #5944664
| OK, I saw this tree last summer while driving by and couldn't figure out what it was. I was a passenger in a car and didn't want to have the driver stop so I could obsess about it. Then I couldn't find it again until today. It's definitely got some pendulous action going on. Very very dense crown/canopy. The buds look elm-like to me but not sure. It's got a gnarly/eerie look to it which appeals to me. Hope these photos can help ID it. I also grabbed a branch to see if I could force it so I could see the leaves. Thanks... 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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dybbuk
Chicago, IL
December 30, 2008
05:30 PM Post #5944667
| Bark detail... 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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dybbuk
Chicago, IL
December 30, 2008
05:30 PM Post #5944668
| Buds... 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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dybbuk
Chicago, IL
December 30, 2008
05:31 PM Post #5944670
| Another angle... 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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dybbuk
Chicago, IL
December 30, 2008
05:32 PM Post #5944672
| Closer... 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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dybbuk
Chicago, IL
December 30, 2008
05:34 PM Post #5944678
| From below... 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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Resin
Northumberland
United Kingdom
(Zone 9a)
December 30, 2008
05:48 PM Post #5944713
| Certainly an elm, but not sure which.
It isn't 'Camperdownii', the shoot structure is wrong for that popular weeping cultivar of Wych Elm.
Resin
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pastime
Waterman, IL
(Zone 5a)
December 31, 2008
10:16 AM Post #5947108
| Could be Ulmus parifolia 'Chinese Elm'. Try going to the National Plant Database site and enter the scientific name 'Ulmus'. |
dybbuk
Chicago, IL
December 31, 2008
01:02 PM Post #5947758
| I've looked at that one but the bark is different and the zone (8-10). |
KSBaptisia
Beatrice, NE
(Zone 5b)
December 31, 2008
04:56 PM Post #5948655
| It is most likely Ulmus pumila, which is often called chinese elm or siberian elm. There are weeping cultivars of that species, but it wouldn't necessarily have to be a cultivar. Have you had any ice storms in the past few years? It is not a very durable tree, often the branches will be bowed by the weight of the ice and never really straighten back up. Many of the wild-growing Ulmus pumila growing around here closely resemble your 4th and 5th pictures (or they are badly broken up). |
dybbuk
Chicago, IL
December 31, 2008
07:46 PM Post #5949324
| I think you may be right KSB. I did some more reasearch and the bark and buds seem to match. I have found there is a cultivar 'pendula' that may explain the weeping habit. Thanks... |
jimwil22
rhinelander, WI
(Zone 4a)
January 01, 2009
07:40 AM Post #5950898
| was it cut back to avoid the power lines, maybe that gave it
the interesting look. |
dybbuk
Chicago, IL
January 01, 2009
04:27 PM Post #5952777
| No cut-back just a weeping canopy. |
quaintcharm
Galesburg, IL
(Zone 5a)
January 02, 2009
03:42 PM Post #5957194
| Hi dybuk,
I'm wondering if it isn't a Sophora Japonica Pendula. It's called the weeping Japanese Scholar Tree, Japanese Pagoda Tree, and Dragon Claw. They can easily grow in cold temps-5a or -28 degrees. The growth habit and bark does look similar (to me) to the one posted. |
Resin
Northumberland
United Kingdom
(Zone 9a)
January 02, 2009
08:21 PM Post #5958379
| Shoot and buds are definitely an elm. Sophora japonica (now Styphnolobium japonicum) has green twigs and smaller buds.
Resin
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HoosierGreen
Danville, IN
January 03, 2009
11:47 AM Post #5960609
| Being in Chicago on a "regular" street, I wouldn't think it was anything but a Chinese elm. Although there are no overhead wires from the pictures, it looks to have been rather severely "pruned", either by Nature or man. I think the chances are very good that it is just a regular Chinese elm that has, over the years, by fate or fortune, grown into an interesting form. Note that some of the branches look to be more upright. If it were a true weeping variety, I think the crown wouldn't be as rounded. Either way, it'll be easier when it leafs out. (P.S. Is this tree in Bridgeport?)
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ViburnumValley
Scott County, KY
(Zone 5b)
January 03, 2009
12:23 PM Post #5960779
| In this posted photo by dybbuk...
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=5944670
...there seems to be overhead electrical lines in the vicinity.
In this photo...
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/fp.php?pid=5944672
...there are certainly major stub cuts, indicating that the canopy was redirected or reduced.
I'd vote for what HoosierGreen postulates. It's another mangy old Siberian Elm (Ulmus pumila) that is tough enough to survive in the narrow hostile utility strip, but too vigorous for even that spot and has to be emasculated to stay in some sort of tolerable bounds. It is interesting in its present habit, but I'd bet dimes to Dunkin Donuts that you won't reproduce it from rooting cuttings or grafts.
Take a look at the habit of an unmolested Siberian Elm, and note that mid to lower canopy often has the "drooping" or "weeping" or "pendulous" character. Unfortunately, in this position, on that tree, those branches have received the reward and the normal upper crown has suffered the risk. And even some of them have been whacked on. |
dybbuk
Chicago, IL
January 03, 2009
09:27 PM Post #5962782
| I went back to look at it today and the powerlines are actually on the other side of the street. None on the side of the tree. It looks as though only one major chop took place some time ago in the canopy so I wouldn't think that would cause the tree modify it's shape. |
jimwil22
rhinelander, WI
(Zone 4a)
January 04, 2009
04:33 AM Post #5963851
| i like the trees in chicago, the mayor launched a tree planting campaign, chicago
does have a lot of older street trees that are doing well, evanston, a suburb
has a lot of old elms that have survived dutch elm disease, there was a story
of an old bur oak that was almost 300 years old in chicago, fell in a storm
a few years ago |
jimwil22
rhinelander, WI
(Zone 4a)
January 04, 2009
04:47 AM Post #5963858
| american elms i meant , siberian elms are planted a lot too, and many
are volunteers, american elms also survive in parks and wetland areas, but
the large ones are rare, i think they come back from the roots when
the large tree dies. back to the thread, many trees are used in bonsai
siberian elm has been tried, too -- i have a small one that i got as a
bonsai starter, i cut it back almost to the ground and it did not phase it.
that chicago street tree looks great -- chicago has a lot of sycamore trees
in the neighboors on the north side by wrigley field -- go Cubs |
pastime
Waterman, IL
(Zone 5a)
January 06, 2009
10:32 AM Post #5972713
| Are you sure you want one of them in your yard? They are messy trees, always dropping little twigs all over. A friend had a very old one (for a Siberian Elm), near her patio. She was constantly sweeping. They are a fast growing, junk tree. I agree with the others, the tree you like is a freak of nature or due to storm damage and poor trimming. Check out Beaver Creeks's website, They are a northern Illinois grower in Poplar Grove, IL. http://www.beavercreeknursery.com/genuslist.cfm
They have 9 Ulmus varieties and hundreds of other varieties you can view. They are strickly wholesale, but you may see a tree that has the qualities you're looking for and then find it at a retail nursery. Many area nurseries carry trees from Beaver Creek. If they don't have the one you like in stock, I'm sure one can be ordered. Good luck, and please reconsider planting a Siberian Elm.
Just my two cents! |
sawpalm
Winston Salem, NC
November 10, 2009
10:54 PM Post #7261935
| Can someone identify a weeping ilex with berries from September until now? Actually, I'm not sure it was ilex. Thanks. |
HoosierGreen
Danville, IN
November 10, 2009
11:02 PM Post #7261971
| Sawpalm: You might re-post your question about the holly as a new thread since I don't know if too many people will notice it on this old thread. |
bacarney
Chicago, IL
(Zone 5b)
November 12, 2009
11:23 PM Post #7269041
| Sawpalm--thanks for bringing back this Dybbuk thread--always great observations, well documented, good puzzles and unique point of view. |
sawpalm
Winston Salem, NC
November 15, 2009
11:34 AM Post #7276136
| Question about tree with berries that seems to be a weeping for of ilex verticullata or a hawthorne. Does anyone know how to tell the difference or could it be something else? |
ViburnumValley
Scott County, KY
(Zone 5b)
November 15, 2009
12:44 PM Post #7276336
| sawpalm:
There are lots of folks here who are excellent at ID and divining differences between plants.
HOWEVER - most of them won't see your request when you tack it onto the end of someone else's thread, especially one that is 10 months old. As HoosierGreen suggested, start a new thread with your question about weeping forms of holly and/or hawthorn and attach pictures if you have them.
As far as telling them apart - most hollies prevalent in the landscape are broadleaf evergreens. Most hawthorns are deciduous. There are a couple of deciduous hollies that are pendulous in form, including at least one Possumhaw (Ilex decidua 'Memphis Belle') and one winterberry (Ilex verticillata 'Sunset'), but I doubt you'd confuse them with a hawthorn. Many/most hawthorns have thorns. Hollies do not, unless you count the spiny leaves of some species.
I'm not aware of any weeping form of hawthorn, but there is a very common evergreen form of holly that would likely be found in North Carolina that is quite pendulous. That is Ilex vomitoria 'Pendula', the weeping Yaupon holly.
There are at least a couple more named Yaupon hollies with weeping character, including Ilex vomitoria 'Folsom's Weeping' and Ilex vomitoria 'Stephens Weeping'.
We look forward to seeing your question in a new thread, on this forum (Trees, Shrubs, and Conifers) or over on the Plant Identification forum. |
sawpalm
Winston Salem, NC
November 15, 2009
07:42 PM Post #7277422
| ok; thanks...these are not on my property, but I am going to get a photo...good leads. |
