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Antiques and Collectibles: Tool ?

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Forum: Antiques and CollectiblesReplies: 42, Views: 575
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bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 10, 2009
7:46 PM

Post #5989713

Can you identify this tool?

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bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 10, 2009
7:48 PM

Post #5989716

And this one...?

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schickenlady
Sherrie In, NH
(Zone 5a)

January 10, 2009
9:23 PM

Post #5989967

First one not quite sure. Could be a lard squasher.

The second one is a Carpenter Wood Working Plane Tool

This message was edited Jan 10, 2009 4:24 PM
bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 10, 2009
9:40 PM

Post #5990026

thanks on the 2nd one...
schickenlady
Sherrie In, NH
(Zone 5a)

January 10, 2009
9:44 PM

Post #5990040

Showed the first one to DH - he said maybe a meat tenderizer?
Demstratt
Lincoln Park, MI
(Zone 5a)

January 10, 2009
10:11 PM

Post #5990117

I think the first ones a nutcracker!
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

January 10, 2009
11:17 PM

Post #5990319

Cannot tell from the picture just how large the first one is...Have seen something similar that was for forming cigars.
bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 11, 2009
12:10 AM

Post #5990480

It's about 13" long and the holes don't match up...more ''waffle-like"

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LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

January 11, 2009
2:52 AM

Post #5991045

hhhhmmmmm...
elsie
Lafayette, NJ
(Zone 6a)

January 11, 2009
3:05 AM

Post #5991095

I wonder if the first one is to crimp something together?
bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 11, 2009
4:02 AM

Post #5991311

That was my DH's guess, but what? Couldn't be metal,could it? Seems the metal would misshape the wood. I have a book of old tools. I can't find anything that looks like it. My guess was cigarette mold, till DH pointed out that there's no holes for cig.
schickenlady
Sherrie In, NH
(Zone 5a)

January 11, 2009
12:33 PM

Post #5991846

Ribbon candy or put the crimps in lasgana? Possibly metal like for doing old Christmas decorations.
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

January 11, 2009
4:16 PM

Post #5992403

candy molds are usually metal. I know I have seen one of these before, but...
elsie
Lafayette, NJ
(Zone 6a)

January 11, 2009
5:05 PM

Post #5992590

Okay, I will ask - what is a lard squasher?
schickenlady
Sherrie In, NH
(Zone 5a)

January 11, 2009
7:07 PM

Post #5993084

I had one similar to the 1st tool but it was flat and had greasy use. They pressed the pig, beef or what ever fat. What they did with it after I have no clue. Maybe Pork Rinds?
JuneyBug
Dover AFB, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 11, 2009
11:25 PM

Post #5993913

Cracklins are the fried fat, rinds are fried skin.

I sure hope someone knows what that tool was made for squeezing...
incomer44
Sheffield
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

January 22, 2009
8:44 PM

Post #6037422

As schickenlady says, your second item is a "Carpenter Wood Working Plane Tool". To give you a bit more information, it is a grooving plane made of beech, used for cutting the groove of a tongue and groove woodworking joint. The iron ( the bit that does the cutting) is missing in your photograph. The original owner probably also had another plane to make the corresponding tongue to fit the groove.

If you look at the front of the plane (the end on the right in your photo) there may be a manufacturers name stamped into the end grain. This can be used to date the plane (but as it is probably American I won't be able to help you here). If the owner stamped his name on it, it is likely to be at the other end. (Most cabinet makers did have their own name stamps, used to mark their tools and the work they produced).
bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 23, 2009
1:21 AM

Post #6038443

Fascinating! I found a "7" over "16" on one end and a very small mark on the other end, after reading your post. The mark is too tiny to read. Maybe in the daylight I can see it better. Thanks for all the information. I'll post what I can read tomorrow.
MargaretK
PERTH
Australia

January 24, 2009
12:27 AM

Post #6042587

This is a guess, but with the first one, what came to my mind was that it may be a device to put the crimping in the caps that maids and waitresses used to wear. The flat bit at the bottom may have been there as a guide to ensure all the crimping was uniform along its length.
bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 26, 2009
5:02 PM

Post #6053180

Still can't make out the mark on the plane...wondering if I can fill it in with ink and try to "stamp" it onto paper. going to look for DD's old microscope and try that next.
The crimper suggestion is a good one... the crimping area is only about 4" to 5"...
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

January 26, 2009
5:34 PM

Post #6053345

Sandy, try laying a piece of white paper over and rubbing with a pencil. That's what they do on old tombstones when it has become unreadable.
JuneyBug
Dover AFB, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 26, 2009
7:01 PM

Post #6053689

Or try silly putty.
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

January 26, 2009
8:17 PM

Post #6053982

Hey, now that's a really good idea. Will try to remember that.
bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 26, 2009
8:37 PM

Post #6054067

Great idea! Will do...
bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 26, 2009
8:40 PM

Post #6054082

I tried the pencil and paper, but the mark is so tiny, it still doesn't show...it looks like an "acorn with deer antlers" with MOET (?) over top and maybe a date at bottom...and no, I'm not drinking...yet...
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

January 26, 2009
10:57 PM

Post #6054648

I love a good mystery. Maybe we don't want to know! hahahaha
MargaretK
PERTH
Australia

January 27, 2009
12:50 AM

Post #6055115

If you have a reasonable macro capability on your camera, try photographing it. It's surprising what a macro image can capture - often more than the naked eye.
JuneyBug
Dover AFB, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 27, 2009
3:01 AM

Post #6055843

So true! I had forgotten that completely. Using what the police call "alternative light" will help too. This is using light coming from the side - each side for each shot, all different angles, different colors work well too, showing different things.
bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 27, 2009
3:23 AM

Post #6055977

Will have to hunt my camera manual tomorrow! Or borrow DGS's Silly Putty... Tried photo, but it didn't come out as planned.
incomer44
Sheffield
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

January 27, 2009
9:56 AM

Post #6056708

Hi,

Simple things first. The numbers 7 and 16 refer to the thickness of the board that the plane was to be used on (7/16 inch - it would have put the groove centrally on this thickness of board).

On reading your post about the mark, I looked through my copy of "British Planemakers from 1700 by W.L. Goodman (3rd Edition revised by Jane and Mark Rees)". There is one mark in this book that might match your description (photo from the book attached). This is a 'smoke print' (the black bits are the surface of the wood and the white bits are stamped into the wood). The mark is clearly not very distinct on the plane this was taken from. You should be able to tell if this is the same as your plane.

This mark was used by the planemaker James Moir, later R & J Moir, of Glasgow [Scotland]. They made planes from 1836 to 1875. The mark is a thistle (rather than an "acorn with deer antlers").

If this does match your plane, then your plane must have either been imported from the UK, or was owned by a Scottish immigrant. If this does not match, your plane is probably American and it is an American maker (I have no information on these).

Thumbnail by incomer44
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bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 27, 2009
8:53 PM

Post #6058735

Well it's close...but I had my daughter take a few photos with her camera and e-mail them to me. Now it looks like a bear in a hat with a banner above and still looks like M O E T above banner...date under the bear head...next, I guess I'll try to fill the indentions with black marker and see if it shows up better. Thanks for all the suggestions. Hope you can see the photo...

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incomer44
Sheffield
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

January 28, 2009
12:04 AM

Post #6059483

This is clearly different to the mark in my book, which I thought might match your verbal description. I would say that it is definitely a makers mark, and that it is an American maker. There are books of American planemakers marks but I do not have any. I cannot read the words on the mark in the photo and it may be that you won't be able to - it may be that the design needs to be matched to a design in a book to work out who it is.
bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 28, 2009
12:19 AM

Post #6059544

Thank you, I appreciate you looking it up for me. I'll try to find a book of American marks (who knew there were books of marks!). I already know a lot more about this tool, thanks to your detective work. I'd never have looked for a mark.
I'll let you know if I find anything.
incomer44
Sheffield
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

January 28, 2009
9:55 AM

Post #6060968

This link to The Early American Industries Association may be of use:

http://www.eaiainfo.org/

The 'book sales' button lists a book called "A Field Guide to the Makers of American Wooden Planes" by Thomas Elliott. I am not suggesting you join the EAIA or buy the book, but if you can find a copy of this somewhere to look at it would be a good place to start. Or perhaps someone on DG can find a copy to look at.
JuneyBug
Dover AFB, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 28, 2009
11:38 AM

Post #6061052

I've looked a bit every day, trying to hone my research skills while helping you. Nothing yet. I agree that you will have to look at a book on this. Maybe the research librarian at your local library can find images of the marks to compare against. Otherwise, a used book on ebay may be your best bet, just watch the shipping charges - they sometimes make all of their profits off of that.
bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

January 28, 2009
4:43 PM

Post #6062172

I visited the website you suggested, Incomer, and noticed there was a way to e-mail some of the members. Maybe I can get a better photo of the mark and ask for ID. There's a Barnes&Noble book store across the highway from us, so I'll try there first.
Thanks to you also, JuneyBug...such tenacity!
JuneyBug
Dover AFB, DE
(Zone 7a)

January 28, 2009
5:05 PM

Post #6062275

I'm trying. I need to learn the skill-set required to effectively research stuff on the internet. Seems to take a looong while.
incomer44
Sheffield
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

March 23, 2009
11:40 PM

Post #6310013

I think that I have by chance worked out what the mark on your plane is. I am a member of TATHS (The Tools and Trades History Society in the UK - the equivalent of your Early American Industries Association). I have just received their Spring Newsletter, which by chance includes a very indistinct picture of the mark on your plane. It is described as 'Varvill's mitre mark'. This mark is not detailed in any of my books on UK plane makers which is why I mistakenly assumed it to be an American maker.

Varvill was a major UK plane manufacturer who was based in York. They are known to have operated between 1793 until 1904. I do not know the date range of the trade mark which appears on your plane - I will make some enquiries and let you know the results (if any). I do not think the mark is very common and does not appear on most planes made by Varvill.

Historically York is an important ecclesiastical location and the trade mark represents a Bishop's Mitre. I think the word to the top of the mark is REGD (short for registered) and the word beneath is EBOR (latin for York). A bishops mitre has two ribbons at the back which is represented in the mark. The picture below shows the mark on your plane, the mark in the TATHS newsletter, another display of the mark (from http://www.oldtools.co.uk/tools/planes_scrapers/wooden.planes/wooden.plane.pl52.php#), and a picture of a bishops mitre (from http://www.luzarvestments.co.uk/mitres.htm should anyone be wanting to buy one).

Because your plane appears to be British it must have either been imported, or brought over by an immigrant carpenter. I will inquire as to whether Varvill are known to have exported to the USA and let you know what I find out.

Thumbnail by incomer44
Click the image for an enlarged view.

JuneyBug
Dover AFB, DE
(Zone 7a)

March 24, 2009
12:01 AM

Post #6310081

How wonderful!
LouC
Desoto, TX
(Zone 8a)

March 24, 2009
1:19 AM

Post #6310451

The world at our doorstep. As you say, HOW WONDERFUL!!!!
bigbubbles
Austin, TX
(Zone 8b)

March 24, 2009
2:04 AM

Post #6310676

I'm just tickled that you were able to identify this chunk of wood! I'm wondering if you'd like it to go home to Sheffield? I've read in this thread that you're in an organization that researches old tools. Would you possibly be interested in this plane? Since I had no idea what it was, would have stuck it back in the attic, and my daughter would have sold it for 25 cents in the garage sale after we left for Heaven...,I'd like to see it go to someone who would appreciate it. If you'd like to have it...and not sell it on e-Bay (!), I'd love to send it to you for postage. My aunt would have bought it in Roswell, New Mexico in the 60s or early 70s. If you, or someone you know, would be interested in it for collecting, I'll check on the postage. It may cost more than it's worth, but I'd sure like to know it's going home...If the postage is too high, maybe you could just come over and pick it up...
Sandi

Edited to add: I still think the mark looks like a bear in a hat with a banner over his head...but upside now, of course!

This message was edited Mar 23, 2009 9:08 PM
incomer44
Sheffield
United Kingdom
(Zone 8a)

March 24, 2009
9:26 AM

Post #6311645

Sandi,
Thank you for your very kind offer but but I must decline it. For some years I bought and sold antique tools but am now in the process of trying to dispose of what I have rather than acquire more.

Your moulding plane has very little value ($1 on a good day). To be valuable, moulding planes need to be either very early, or of a rare and unusual type, or from a rare maker.

I agree that if you do not know what it is, the mark looks as though it should be upside down. I also thought this until I discovered what it actually was.

Andrew
scicciarella
Mona in Metcalfe, ON
(Zone 5a)

April 8, 2009
7:19 PM

Post #6382939

interesting stuff look alien to ma hahahahah have no idea what they are

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