Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

Can you identify this tool?

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Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

And this one.....?

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Sherrie In, NH(Zone 5a)

First one not quite sure. Could be a lard squasher.

The second one is a Carpenter Wood Working Plane Tool

This message was edited Jan 10, 2009 4:24 PM

Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

thanks on the 2nd one....

Sherrie In, NH(Zone 5a)

Showed the first one to DH - he said maybe a meat tenderizer?

Lincoln Park, MI(Zone 5a)

I think the first ones a nutcracker!

Desoto, TX(Zone 8a)

Cannot tell from the picture just how large the first one is....Have seen something similar that was for forming cigars.

Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

It's about 13" long and the holes don't match up......more ''waffle-like"

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Desoto, TX(Zone 8a)

hhhhmmmmm.......

Lafayette, NJ(Zone 6a)

I wonder if the first one is to crimp something together?

Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

That was my DH's guess, but what? Couldn't be metal,could it? Seems the metal would misshape the wood. I have a book of old tools. I can't find anything that looks like it. My guess was cigarette mold, till DH pointed out that there's no holes for cig.

Sherrie In, NH(Zone 5a)

Ribbon candy or put the crimps in lasgana? Possibly metal like for doing old Christmas decorations.

Desoto, TX(Zone 8a)

candy molds are usually metal. I know I have seen one of these before, but.....

Lafayette, NJ(Zone 6a)

Okay, I will ask - what is a lard squasher?

Sherrie In, NH(Zone 5a)

I had one similar to the 1st tool but it was flat and had greasy use. They pressed the pig, beef or what ever fat. What they did with it after I have no clue. Maybe Pork Rinds?

Dover AFB, DE(Zone 7a)

Cracklins are the fried fat, rinds are fried skin.

I sure hope someone knows what that tool was made for squeezing...

Sheffield, United Kingdom(Zone 8a)

As schickenlady says, your second item is a "Carpenter Wood Working Plane Tool". To give you a bit more information, it is a grooving plane made of beech, used for cutting the groove of a tongue and groove woodworking joint. The iron ( the bit that does the cutting) is missing in your photograph. The original owner probably also had another plane to make the corresponding tongue to fit the groove.

If you look at the front of the plane (the end on the right in your photo) there may be a manufacturers name stamped into the end grain. This can be used to date the plane (but as it is probably American I won't be able to help you here). If the owner stamped his name on it, it is likely to be at the other end. (Most cabinet makers did have their own name stamps, used to mark their tools and the work they produced).

Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

Fascinating! I found a "7" over "16" on one end and a very small mark on the other end, after reading your post. The mark is too tiny to read. Maybe in the daylight I can see it better. Thanks for all the information. I'll post what I can read tomorrow.

PERTH, Australia

This is a guess, but with the first one, what came to my mind was that it may be a device to put the crimping in the caps that maids and waitresses used to wear. The flat bit at the bottom may have been there as a guide to ensure all the crimping was uniform along its length.

Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

Still can't make out the mark on the plane....wondering if I can fill it in with ink and try to "stamp" it onto paper. going to look for DD's old microscope and try that next.
The crimper suggestion is a good one.... the crimping area is only about 4" to 5".....

Desoto, TX(Zone 8a)

Sandy, try laying a piece of white paper over and rubbing with a pencil. That's what they do on old tombstones when it has become unreadable.

Dover AFB, DE(Zone 7a)

Or try silly putty.

Desoto, TX(Zone 8a)

Hey, now that's a really good idea. Will try to remember that.

Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

Great idea! Will do....

Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

I tried the pencil and paper, but the mark is so tiny, it still doesn't show...it looks like an "acorn with deer antlers" with MOET (?) over top and maybe a date at bottom......and no, I'm not drinking...yet....

Desoto, TX(Zone 8a)

I love a good mystery. Maybe we don't want to know! hahahaha

PERTH, Australia

If you have a reasonable macro capability on your camera, try photographing it. It's surprising what a macro image can capture - often more than the naked eye.

Dover AFB, DE(Zone 7a)

So true! I had forgotten that completely. Using what the police call "alternative light" will help too. This is using light coming from the side - each side for each shot, all different angles, different colors work well too, showing different things.

Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

Will have to hunt my camera manual tomorrow! Or borrow DGS's Silly Putty.... Tried photo, but it didn't come out as planned.

Sheffield, United Kingdom(Zone 8a)

Hi,

Simple things first. The numbers 7 and 16 refer to the thickness of the board that the plane was to be used on (7/16 inch - it would have put the groove centrally on this thickness of board).

On reading your post about the mark, I looked through my copy of "British Planemakers from 1700 by W.L. Goodman (3rd Edition revised by Jane and Mark Rees)". There is one mark in this book that might match your description (photo from the book attached). This is a 'smoke print' (the black bits are the surface of the wood and the white bits are stamped into the wood). The mark is clearly not very distinct on the plane this was taken from. You should be able to tell if this is the same as your plane.

This mark was used by the planemaker James Moir, later R & J Moir, of Glasgow [Scotland]. They made planes from 1836 to 1875. The mark is a thistle (rather than an "acorn with deer antlers").

If this does match your plane, then your plane must have either been imported from the UK, or was owned by a Scottish immigrant. If this does not match, your plane is probably American and it is an American maker (I have no information on these).

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Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

Well it's close...but I had my daughter take a few photos with her camera and e-mail them to me. Now it looks like a bear in a hat with a banner above and still looks like M O E T above banner...date under the bear head...next, I guess I'll try to fill the indentions with black marker and see if it shows up better. Thanks for all the suggestions. Hope you can see the photo.......

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Sheffield, United Kingdom(Zone 8a)

This is clearly different to the mark in my book, which I thought might match your verbal description. I would say that it is definitely a makers mark, and that it is an American maker. There are books of American planemakers marks but I do not have any. I cannot read the words on the mark in the photo and it may be that you won't be able to - it may be that the design needs to be matched to a design in a book to work out who it is.

Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

Thank you, I appreciate you looking it up for me. I'll try to find a book of American marks (who knew there were books of marks!). I already know a lot more about this tool, thanks to your detective work. I'd never have looked for a mark.
I'll let you know if I find anything.

Sheffield, United Kingdom(Zone 8a)

This link to The Early American Industries Association may be of use:

http://www.eaiainfo.org/

The 'book sales' button lists a book called "A Field Guide to the Makers of American Wooden Planes" by Thomas Elliott. I am not suggesting you join the EAIA or buy the book, but if you can find a copy of this somewhere to look at it would be a good place to start. Or perhaps someone on DG can find a copy to look at.

Dover AFB, DE(Zone 7a)

I've looked a bit every day, trying to hone my research skills while helping you. Nothing yet. I agree that you will have to look at a book on this. Maybe the research librarian at your local library can find images of the marks to compare against. Otherwise, a used book on ebay may be your best bet, just watch the shipping charges - they sometimes make all of their profits off of that.

Austin, TX(Zone 8b)

I visited the website you suggested, Incomer, and noticed there was a way to e-mail some of the members. Maybe I can get a better photo of the mark and ask for ID. There's a Barnes&Noble book store across the highway from us, so I'll try there first.
Thanks to you also, JuneyBug...such tenacity!

Dover AFB, DE(Zone 7a)

I'm trying. I need to learn the skill-set required to effectively research stuff on the internet. Seems to take a looong while.

Sheffield, United Kingdom(Zone 8a)

I think that I have by chance worked out what the mark on your plane is. I am a member of TATHS (The Tools and Trades History Society in the UK - the equivalent of your Early American Industries Association). I have just received their Spring Newsletter, which by chance includes a very indistinct picture of the mark on your plane. It is described as 'Varvill's mitre mark'. This mark is not detailed in any of my books on UK plane makers which is why I mistakenly assumed it to be an American maker.

Varvill was a major UK plane manufacturer who was based in York. They are known to have operated between 1793 until 1904. I do not know the date range of the trade mark which appears on your plane - I will make some enquiries and let you know the results (if any). I do not think the mark is very common and does not appear on most planes made by Varvill.

Historically York is an important ecclesiastical location and the trade mark represents a Bishop's Mitre. I think the word to the top of the mark is REGD (short for registered) and the word beneath is EBOR (latin for York). A bishops mitre has two ribbons at the back which is represented in the mark. The picture below shows the mark on your plane, the mark in the TATHS newsletter, another display of the mark (from http://www.oldtools.co.uk/tools/planes_scrapers/wooden.planes/wooden.plane.pl52.php#), and a picture of a bishops mitre (from http://www.luzarvestments.co.uk/mitres.htm should anyone be wanting to buy one).

Because your plane appears to be British it must have either been imported, or brought over by an immigrant carpenter. I will inquire as to whether Varvill are known to have exported to the USA and let you know what I find out.

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Dover AFB, DE(Zone 7a)

How wonderful!

Desoto, TX(Zone 8a)

The world at our doorstep. As you say, HOW WONDERFUL!!!!

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