| Author | Content |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 12, 2009 12:14 AM Post #6126029
| Here's a photo of my versicolor seedling flower, the second flush this season. It came from seed collected from my apricot versicolor brug, planted last autumn from memory, and has reverted to white although it retains the scent of its parent. I'm wondering if it's worth saving the pollen from this flower and, if so, what to cross it with? I have only a limited range of brugs, and of these I don't want to use the suaveolens (only because if I'm going to have a brug with flowers that collapse in the heat, I can't find a better brug than the white beautifully fragrant one I already have). Maybe the aurea (Golden butter), which holds its flowers well in the heat? Or maybe cross it back to the apricot versicolor? 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 12, 2009 12:15 AM Post #6126036
| Here's a view from underneath ... 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 12, 2009 12:18 AM Post #6126046
| For comparison, here's an immature bloom of the parent (apricot) plant, which will turn apricot over the next day or so. The shape of the flower seems different from the seedling. The seedling has a shorter flower, and the tendrils seem more curled and sturdier looking ...
This message was edited Feb 12, 2009 10:28 AM
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia (Zone 9b)
February 12, 2009 12:37 AM Post #6126137
| I like it! Nothing wrong with white IMO - some of the most beautiful varieties are white.
From the look of it, I suspect the apricot may have been pollinated with your 'Golden Butter', which I would expect to give white (on the basis of my limited knowledge of how colours are inherited). As you say, the seedling has a shorter flower than the apricot, a more recurved skirt and longer tendrils - all pointing to having crossed with GB (given what you have in your garden). The foliage seems intermediate too. Do the two ever flower simultaneously?
If you have any other seedlings from the same batch, I would cross one with this - you may recover some yellow and some apricot seedlings and a range of shapes in the next generation - probably more productive than crossing it back with a parent.
This message was edited Feb 12, 2009 11:41 AM |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 12, 2009 4:48 AM Post #6127140
| Yes, it definitely has a touch of the aurea about it. (I wonder if the colour will change in autumn?) I don't have any other seedlings from that seedpod, so will probably just try to harvest whatever pollen I can collect from this one before the winter frost gets to it. Then I'll keep the pollen and turf the plant, I think. It's definitely a pathway plant, ie a pathway to something different (hopefully better) rather than a plant I would want to keep for aesthetic reasons.
There are two more ripe pods on the parent plant but I'll just throw them out as I don't feel motivated (space, watering) to grow any more versicolor seedlings.
None of the aureas are currently flowering and I've had very few flowers on them this season. (My four GB flowers--that's right, only four flowers--flowered about two weeks ago.) The suaveolens have just finished a flush but the apricot versicolors are bristling with buds--their best flush this season. The brugs have done it tough this season because of the three hailstorms, which killed the first spring flower flush. And although we had a deluge of rain last November, it was followed by a dry spell lasting about a month.
Incidentally, I posted a message elsewhere asking why my arborea seeds hadn't germinated, and was told they could take up to 6 months to germinate. Is this normal in Australia? In spring/summer? |
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia (Zone 9b)
February 12, 2009 4:51 AM Post #6127151
| No, doesn't sound right to me. They germinate in about 3-4 weeks with me. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 12, 2009 5:08 AM Post #6127192
| It seemed strange to me but, as I've never sown arboreas before ... So my original guess that they were old seeds was probably correct, as I can't believe that all four sowings--from Nov to mid-Jan, in different pots set in different light levels throughout the garden, most soaked and peeled, some not--could ALL have been eaten by slugs/dried out/rotted from excess moisture. Ah well, maybe one will eventually germinate as seeds tend to surprise that way ... |
MyaC
Magnetic Island
Australia (Zone 11)
February 12, 2009 5:10 AM Post #6127197
| cestrum hi and welcome...beautiful Angel,like Alistair,I also love the whites...have you seen Judy,Brical1 Tantra ?,which is a pure white,beautiful...Good to see you on here. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 12, 2009 5:20 AM Post #6127228
| Hi Mya, I did see a photo of Tantra on the thread and it's very pretty, definitely prettier than this one, but I figure that I don't need to keep it because I already have its characteristics in my other brugs--I have the scent on the parent plant, and for a white brug I prefer the shape of the Knightii to this seedling. But by using the pollen to cross with my other brugs, I feel that growing this seedling hasn't been a waste of time because some of its characteristics will be passed on.
Not that it was a waste of time anyway, because I was curious to see the result. |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
February 12, 2009 9:47 PM Post #6129903
| Hullo cestrum ...I remember you from ausgarden, welcome!
The Brugmansia forum here is wonderful! and very friendly ...I have learned so much from it ...and I think the best learning is in the doing ...growing and breeding angels is a wonderful hobby!
Congratulations on your new bloom ...it holds nice genes.
I think you will enjoy this very friendly corner of daves garden (Australian forum)...we have been a bit quiet because of the fires.
The International gardeners are just so welcoming too!
Happy gardening.
chrissy |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 12, 2009 9:55 PM Post #6129942
| Hi Chrissy, I've yet to check out the brug forum as this is such a large website ... quite exciting to keep finding new things. Re brugs, it's just a little depressing to read mouth-watering descriptions--not to mention the glorious photos--of cultivars that you cannot get in Australia! |
Kell
Northern California, CA (Zone 9b)
 February 12, 2009 10:03 PM Post #6129983
| I just happened upon this thread from seeing it on the latest post list. I love your white. What a great shape! Don't you like it better than your apricot shape?
Arborea seeds germinate just as fast an any other brugs or as slow if old. LOL! I happen to have 10 fresh seeds right here ready to go from a January picking. Are you allowed to get them where you are?
Here are mine germinating in just about 4 days. They are really fresh.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 12, 2009 10:28 PM Post #6130124
| Wow, they're germinating fantastically well. What medium are you growing them in? Unfortunately, it's illegal to import arborea seeds into Australia. (Well, not without a formal 'assessment', which I've never done but know takes considerable time, effort and money. So effectively illegal for home gardeners.)
The funny thing is that the seller had a minimum purchase requirement, so I bought three packets of the arborea seeds, but two packets of something else that I was only mildly interested in but bought to reach the minimum purchase amount. It never occurred to me that not one of the arborea seeds would germinate ... but I harbour a quiet hope that eventually one will decide to see what the world looks like above the soil :-)
I'm glad you like my white seedling. It's pretty ... just not exceptional enough to keep in a small garden that has to be bucket watered. (With some grass area left for the dog to run in, otherwise there would be NO grass left at all!) If you were a local, I'd send you cuttings!
This message was edited Feb 13, 2009 8:31 AM |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
February 17, 2009 5:54 AM Post #6150030
| Cestrum ...I have quite a few arborea species plants ...they set seed in spring but the seeds fell off in the heat.
Mine were up in 10 days (soaked and peeled) and were lusty growers ...flowering in less than a year, you are most welcome to any seeds I can set this Autumn (they haven't liked the high temps but are coming back happily with the cooler temps and rain. I would send you cuttings but it seems they are difficult to strike ...I will try to strike them myself soon. I think the secret is to plant while very fresh.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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Kell
Northern California, CA (Zone 9b)
February 17, 2009 6:10 AM Post #6150047
| Such a pretty picture, Chrissy!
I use rockwool and love it. I always get good germination but best is I keep the tray in a closed tightly, clear plastic bag under lights until they are a few inches tall. I never have to water them till I take them out to be planted up. So easy!
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Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia (Zone 9b)
February 17, 2009 6:12 AM Post #6150052
| Kell what do you do with it when you pot the seedlings up - does it go in the pot with them? |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 17, 2009 6:21 AM Post #6150072
| Thank you, Chrissy; that's very kind. By the time your arborea has set seeds in autumn, any of my arborea seeds that are viable should have germinated (I only need the one), so we'll see then whether I need to take up your kind offer.
Meanwhile, is there something I can offer you? It's hard to think of anything good that you haven't already got ... A cutting of the Dr Seuss hybrid with the serrated leaves? Or, my current favourite, a Michelia champaca seedling; as you're a scentaholic yourself, this should appeal to you--unless you've already got one! The photo shows a flower on my largest tree.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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Kell
Northern California, CA (Zone 9b)
February 17, 2009 6:34 AM Post #6150088
| A neighbor has a Michelia alba. They have not gotten any seeds and are desperate to propagate it. Do they come in male and female plants? It does have such an incredible fragrance.
Hi Alistair. You can pot it up but I usually just peel off most of the rockwool and then put it in soil. It just pulls apart and away from the roots.
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 17, 2009 6:39 AM Post #6150103
| Ah, the fabled Michelia alba--that's been on my to-get list for several years (since I moved to Queensland and heard of it). Although one online US plant seller did list Michelia alba seeds a few years ago (not any more), I do believe that they're supposed to be grafted--whether to guarantee the fragrance or to make the tree more hardy, or both, I can't remember. And I believe it's the champaca that it's grafted on to.
That's a unique picture, Kell--couldn't tell what it was without enlarging it. (Geez, I'm all typos this arvo.)
This message was edited Feb 17, 2009 4:42 PM
This message was edited Feb 17, 2009 4:45 PM |
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia (Zone 9b)
February 17, 2009 7:36 AM Post #6150147
| Thanks Kell, don't think we can get it here - at least I have never seen it - but interesting to know :) |
Kell
Northern California, CA (Zone 9b)
February 17, 2009 8:15 AM Post #6150163
| Do you have hydroponic stores where you are, Alistair? They carry it. It is big in Europe for farm crops. I am only now finding rock wool in nurseries and only at the biggest ones at that.
Well my neighbor sure can't get it to root either. Driving her nuts. LOL
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 17, 2009 8:41 AM Post #6150168
| Google has this to say:
Rockwool: 1. a light fibrous material used as an insulator. Similar Words: mineral wool.
But further investigation found the following hydroponics supplier in WA, offering rockwool for propagation and cuttings:
http://www.watergardenwarehouse.com.au/pd54/rock-wool/ [That final forward slash in the URL is essential.]
So it does exist in Australia.
Kell, that's a superb pic of a M. alba--from your neighbour's garden?
This message was edited Feb 17, 2009 6:44 PM |
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia (Zone 9b)
February 17, 2009 8:41 AM Post #6150169
| Ah... yes there's one in town, which I always though was there for the benefit of cannabis growers LOL I'll have a look... |
Alistair
Nowra, NSW,
Australia (Zone 9b)
February 17, 2009 8:42 AM Post #6150171
| Thanks Cestrum! |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
February 17, 2009 8:49 AM Post #6150174
| Alistair I think it is that green foam thingy you get in floral bouquets, I have seen long threads about it on the various forums.
cestrum I don't really require anything for it but would love to swap with you ...I am a scent freak! and have many fragrant plants ...name your Angels! and we can swap. I will d mail you in the morning as I have to go out right now.
Kell love your michellia ...a big wave to you from down here! |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 17, 2009 8:55 AM Post #6150176
| Look forward to the email Chrissy ...
Floral bouquets? With Valentine's Day only last Sat, there might be some rock wool in a lot of households. Who would have thought: buy the flowers for your loved one AND get to keep the rock wool for your plants :-)
This message was edited Feb 17, 2009 6:56 PM |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
February 17, 2009 8:57 AM Post #6150177
| Pssssst ...look at this
http://forums.tinkersgardens.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3788&PN...
chrissy |
Kell
Northern California, CA (Zone 9b)
February 17, 2009 9:15 AM Post #6150187
| Hi back Chrissy!
Not the same, rockwool is not used by florists. That stuff is totally different. Rockwool is used by cannabis growers which is why I think it is only now getting into nurseries! Thankfully I live right outside of San Francisco, so we have lots of cannabis growers here so lots of rockwool. It is legal to grow if you have a doctor's OK. However it is also used for other more worthwhile plant growing! Though the first few time I bought it, I paid in cash. LOL
It looks like this. Usually comes in sheets of litte blocks with a hole in the middle of each one. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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Kell
Northern California, CA (Zone 9b)
February 17, 2009 9:15 AM Post #6150189
| Seeds just love the stuff. 
Click the image for an enlarged view.
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Kell
Northern California, CA (Zone 9b)
February 17, 2009 9:17 AM Post #6150194
| Here is a great article on it.
http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/rockwool.asp |
Stake
Barmera
Australia
 February 17, 2009 9:46 AM Post #6150215
| G'Day
That Florists' stuff you refer to is called Oasis. I have no idea what it is but it is like a crisp foam plastic. The rockwool should be available from places that sell the hydroponic chemicals and other equipment.
Brian |
Kell
Northern California, CA (Zone 9b)
February 17, 2009 4:52 PM Post #6151294
| Alistair, when I first went to a hydroponics store, I was amazed at all they had. Much better than a nursery for fertilizers, amendments, rooting hormones and even kinds of soils and growers pots. In fact they had things I had only read about and never had seen available anywhere else. It is a candy store for the gardener! |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
February 17, 2009 9:40 PM Post #6152442
| Florist foam is a similar thing you can buy it in hardware shops and craft places ...not florists or it costs a fortune. It is made of Phenolic Resin ...I have not used it yet but found that some things shoved into it in a floral arrangement grew! My sister in law does floral work and she gave me a beautiful ''bouquet" in this stuff and some of the things grew ...she had scalded the stems of the stuff that didn't, so just in case anyone is interested ...this thread is a little long but worth the read ...I am going to buy some.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/642059/ kell your site was really interesting but I would not dare to walk into our "strange hydro shop" ...
happy gardening! |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 17, 2009 9:44 PM Post #6152459
| Kell, I think you've just generated extra business for Aussie hydroponics stores, because that rock wool looks *good*. Are those brug seedlings that are germinating so well in your photo?
Back on the M. alba: grafting is the standard method of propagation. But if the climate is kind enough (ie to grow the plant on its own rootstock), your neighbour should try air layering, as it's likely to be more successful than cuttings. Just add patience! If the plant sets seeds, they should be fertile but I don't know if they will give the same quality of flowers/scent as the parent. (Just soak them in water first to soften the outer husk, which should then be rubbed off before sowing.) |
Kell
Northern California, CA (Zone 9b)
February 17, 2009 10:30 PM Post #6152676
| LOL Chrissy, I too had reservations but I was determined not to pay shipping on the rockwool. I really wanted to try it. As I said, I paid cash so my name would not be found among its customers. I also parked 3 blocks away so my license plate wouldn't be found out too. LOL Now I do not care, it really has some great things. In fact right now, I need some rooting gel and no where else has the variety. They must have 15 kinds.
Cestrum, some people love it, others do not. I have only had great response from it myself. Yes, those are brug seedlings in it. It is just so easy and clean to use. No fungus gnats either. I do not buy all the stuff they may try to push at you either to use with it.
I just wash my hands very good, take a very clean plastic container and put in the amount of cubes that fit. I take to sink and run rather warm water over it till satuated. I turn it over, holding the rockwool in and drain it well. Then I take a pencil that I have cleaned and poke more holes in each cube so not as expensive to use. I push in my seeds just slightly so light can still get to them. I place the container in a damp but drained clear plastic bag. I use velcro to close bag securely and place on my seedling table just under the lights. And I leave them there till they are a couple of inches tall. I do NOT open bag at all during this. I do not want any germs to get in. I take them out and peel extra rockwool away and pot up in soil.
I will tell my neighbor she needs to air layer. She may have already tried that but I am not sure. THANKS PS I forgot to say how impressed I am that you bucket water your garden. A true gardener. You must be young too! LOL. I am too old to carry so many buckets of water. |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 17, 2009 11:20 PM Post #6152889
| I'd love to try germinating seeds in that rock wool. Never thought about 'braving' the weirdness of a hydroponics stuff (I thought those rumours about police videotaping all customers was just a rumour!) but maybe I can find a shop accessible by public transport :-) Honestly, they'd probably mistake me for an undercover cop!
Re M. alba: be prepared to wait a year before cutting off the piece being air layered just to be sure it has enough roots to survive. I tried this initially with my champaca and, eager beaver, cut it off as soon as I saw some roots. It died, of course.
BTW, not young, just desperate to start a garden despite the drought. Besides, it's cheaper than a gym membership ... |
chrissy100
Sydney
Australia
February 18, 2009 12:30 AM Post #6153210
| kell you are so funny! but ours is seriously weird ...black tinted windows and red lights blinking on and off ...looks seriously scary.
cestrum ...I have to hand water too (5 days) but it has been raining so much the last 2 years we are more in danger of rotting stuff.
Thanks so much everyone for this very interesting thread ... |
cestrum_SEQ
West of Brisbane
Australia
February 18, 2009 12:40 AM Post #6153248
| Bucket watering is a pain but oddly I've found that, given the way I like to water (deeply), it's actually quicker than standing there with a hose. I'd never water as deeply with a hose as I do with buckets (one 8L bucket of water per plant). It can just get a bit rough on the plants when they get doused with 8L in one fell swoop ... |
