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Propagation: Harry Lauder's Walking Stick

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billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

February 23, 2009
5:39 AM

Post #6176930

I have access to cuttings from a very large Harry Lauder's Walking Stick. I have read where they are supposed to be grafted to some type of root stock but can't find any detail about what type of root stock and how to do it. Does anyone have information on this subject or able to point me in the right direction?
Stake
Barmera
Australia

February 23, 2009
5:59 AM

Post #6176976

G'Day Billgrubbs, 'Ow ya going. I know nothing about the Harry Lauder walking stick or its rootstock but if you like to look I have copied some of the postings from the previous site we were at and put them on the Australian Garden Forum. I intend to pass on info to the members on budding and grafting so some of that might be of use to you.
Regards Brian
billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

February 23, 2009
4:16 PM

Post #6178228

I have a copy of all you shared with me before on grafting and am anxious to try it. I am trying to find out what is commonly used as rootstock for the Harry Lauder Walking Stick. It is very interesting shrub. It's scientific name is "Corylus avellana 'Contorta". It is a type of hazel nut tree with cork screw branches. Since you are so good at grafting, perhaps you should try it. They sell for about $50 for a plant in a 1 gallon pot. Hence my interest in grafting some myself. This is the season to do it or I will probably have to wait another year.

I was not aware of your postings on the Australia board. Thanks for the heads up on that. I will keep looking there for additional information.

By the way, we went to see the movie, "Australia" last week and loved it. I am going back this week to see it again.
garyt
Presque Isle, MI
(Zone 5a)

February 23, 2009
4:54 PM

Post #6178415

Bill

I have the root stock for Harry Lauders walking stick. I will trade for some rose cuttings. They are under two feet of snow so it will be a while before I can send them.

Gary
billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

February 23, 2009
10:23 PM

Post #6179911

Unfortunately, I have met with disaster with my rose cuttings. Out of about 25, I only have 3 or 4 that survived my infestation with spider mites and other operator (me) errors. Surely I must have something I can trade though. If you are talking about unrooted cuttings, I will have access to lots when it is time to make cuttings again.
echinaceamaniac
(Clint) Medina, TN
(Zone 7b)

February 24, 2009
8:00 PM

Post #6184399

I rooted my Harry Lauders Walking Stick via air layering. I also didn't graft it. It grows very well on its own roots. I can take a photo of the one on its own roots if you'd like to see it. Why do people graft them?
billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

February 24, 2009
9:06 PM

Post #6184719

I have searched for info on grafting them because everything I read say they are grafted. I don't really know why, but if yours is working on its own roots, that is good enough for me. I think I will try to root some cuttings. I have an aeropropagation unit I built and it seems to root things very nicely. Of course, it is hard to find a stem straight enough to root.
echinaceamaniac
(Clint) Medina, TN
(Zone 7b)

February 24, 2009
9:14 PM

Post #6184751

The way I did it was to pick a limb out and scrape some bark off of it. I put root hormone powder on it and covered that with moist soil and wrapped plastic around and secured that to it with pipe cleaners. It worked perfectly. In fact, it seems to be growing better than the one I bought. I planted it out last spring and it survived the hot summer. We had a drought last year too.

I bet anything the cuttings in your aeropropagation unit will work, but if they don't try the air layering method. The cool thing about the air layering method is that if it doesn't work, it doesn't harm the original plant or limb. It worked for me 100% though.

My problem with grafting is the problems you'll have with suckers, etc.
billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

February 24, 2009
9:25 PM

Post #6184800

It is not possible for me to air layer because the tree doesn't belong t me and I doubt the owner wants the plastic bags on his tree. I am going to try to root several of them this week. These will be hardwood cuttings. If they don't work, I will try softwood cuttings this summer. The tree is 30 years old and quite large so there should be plenty of places to take cuttings.
echinaceamaniac
(Clint) Medina, TN
(Zone 7b)

February 24, 2009
9:58 PM

Post #6184963

Makes sense to me. That would be funny if he went outside and saw plastic baggies all over his tree. I can picture that so clearly. lol.
LStrib
Salem, OR

March 16, 2009
1:41 PM

Post #6274679

The understock is Corylus colurna "Turkish Filbert" it is a non suckering rootstock
echinaceamaniac
(Clint) Medina, TN
(Zone 7b)

March 16, 2009
3:35 PM

Post #6275200

billbrubbs, please let us know how your cuttings work out for you. I'm planning on trying some myself. I've had good results using Clonex with other plants and I bet it will work on these.

The plant I air layered last year is already taller than the mother plant. I'll post a picture of it tonight.

Good luck.
billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

March 16, 2009
5:22 PM

Post #6275798

Perhaps the plant owner would let me air layer a limb on his tree. He usually trims it back in the Spring. How big of a limb did you layer? Did you just grow it on its own roots?
echinaceamaniac
(Clint) Medina, TN
(Zone 7b)

March 16, 2009
5:35 PM

Post #6275868

It was just a small limb on the bottom of the tree. You can pick one out that will not effect the appearance of the original plant much. That's what I did. I'll take a photo of the new tree we made tonight. Tell the owner you'll make him another one if he let's you have one.
echinaceamaniac
(Clint) Medina, TN
(Zone 7b)

March 24, 2009
6:36 PM

Post #6313599

Here's a picture of the air layered baby. It was started in the fall of 07 and removed from the mother plant in the Spring of 08. It is now growing into a nice plant. It has many new branches at the bottom so it looks like it will be as pretty as the original.

Thumbnail by echinaceamaniac
Click the image for an enlarged view.

billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

March 24, 2009
9:00 PM

Post #6314184

Thanks for the picture! I wish I had thought about this last fall. I doubt he would like a plastic bag hanging on it by his pool this summer.

I did take a peak at my cuttings last night and the leaf buds are starting to open in the aeropropagator. I will be thrilled is this works. If not, I will be air layering this fall.
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

March 25, 2009
11:03 AM

Post #6316410

Bill,

Did you check this out? It appears that emaniac has the best method to propagate this desired plant. I may have to try softwood and hardwood cuttings this year as well as layering.

http://davesgarden.com/products/market/view/4964/

My contorted filbert (H. L's walking stick) must be grafted since I get lots of straight suckers that threaten to take over the desired plant. I have to prune the suckers back at least 2 to 3 times a year since they grow very fast. A real pain since some of the suckers really need lopping pruners or a pruning saw due to their thickness.

billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

March 25, 2009
2:24 PM

Post #6317072

It appears there is no disadvantage to growing the HLWS on it's own roots. It makes me wonder why growers always graft this tree. They obviously know something I don't know. I think I will get some more cuttings and see how many I can root.
echinaceamaniac
(Clint) Medina, TN
(Zone 7b)

March 25, 2009
2:35 PM

Post #6317130

I think they graft it to save them time and are able to make instant tree shapes. They don't care that it causes inconvenience to the people who buy them.

Another drawback I've seen with grafted trees is you can see the ugly scars where they did the grafts.

I think the non-grafted trees are much prettier and easier to maintain.
billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

March 25, 2009
3:35 PM

Post #6317375

Well, you have convinced me. Now if we can just find a way to make them grow faster.
hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

March 25, 2009
5:10 PM

Post #6317848

Not all grafts are ugly. It would be hard to find most Japanese Maples in the industry that aren't grafted for example. I saw a program before on JM and the guy who was being interviewed said it is a lot easier to get a new JM by grafting than any other method (maybe the only way?)

A lot of roses are grafted too but I've taken cuttings from grafted roses and started them on their own roots and they've grow quickly.

Suckers from the rootstock seems to be a big problem with some (not all) grafted plants though. A double grafted cherry tree (a weeping blooming top grafted on a mahogany colored trunk grafted on a rootstock) we bought a couple of years ago was a big dud - lasted one year and the warranty was up. The only thing left was the suckers from the rootstock. That was $80 down the drain.







billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

March 25, 2009
6:31 PM

Post #6318188

I have hundreds of JM seed in the fridge and some of them are starting to sprout. Perhaps it is time to learn how to graft. They are all from trees and bushes in our neighborhood. Perhaps I can use some of them for root stock and others for the tops, but again, if I have a nice seedling, why do I need to graft it to something else instead of growing it on it's own roots? I know if you have to graft if you want an exact duplicate, but what if you just want a nice JM tree?

Thumbnail by billgrubbs
Click the image for an enlarged view.

hcmcdole
Powder Springs, GA
(Zone 7b)

March 25, 2009
8:12 PM

Post #6318674

Nothing wrong with that. I did that at my last house (dug up JM seedlings in the yard and gave them away) but then I just like JM for their looks and know nothing about the particular cultivars (just buy them for what appeals to me).
cheerpeople
northwest, IL
(Zone 5a)

March 28, 2009
1:31 PM

Post #6330863

I tried airlayering 3-4 branches and had no luck. I am in a similar zone as you.
My parents in a warmer zone had severed branches take root that were just laying on the soil.
It makes me think root hormone and cambiem scraping with layering is not enough. It makes me think bottom heat or a longer summer would also help. Not sure. Would be nice to have a success story in our zone.
Karen
treelover3
Minneapolis, MN
(Zone 5a)

April 20, 2009
7:18 PM

Post #6437825

Corylus is quite difficult to root and that is the reason that HLWS is most commonly grafted - it is very quick to produce lots and lots of plants by grafting. Grafting is not the best way to propagate this plant since a person has to deal with removing the suckers that appear from the understock for the life of the plant.

I purchased a HLWS on its own roots and even the roots are contorted. I would see if you could try to airlayer the plant as that is probably the best, and only way you will have for obtaining a plant.
Good luck!
Mike
billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

April 29, 2009
4:35 PM

Post #6479842

Well, I couldn't resist. I was in HD yesterday and they had this nice size HLWS (one only) on display for $25. I don't know how they can sell one that size for so little. I am now a happy owner and will try air layering.

Thumbnail by billgrubbs
Click the image for an enlarged view.

onewish1

onewish1
Denville, NJ
(Zone 6b)

April 30, 2009
2:16 AM

Post #6482373

great price Bill... good for you

meadowyck

meadowyck
Brooksville, FL
(Zone 9a)

May 19, 2009
4:47 AM

Post #6568638

Wish I had found one like yours for that price.

Billgrubbs how did your cutting do? Do you have any for sale??? I would be most interested in one if you do.

Thanks

Janet
billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

May 19, 2009
2:31 PM

Post #6569753

My HLWS cuttings all died. Sorry to say. I am going to try layering. That should have a better chance for success. I am also going to do soft stem cuttings this summer. Hopefully, they will be more successful than the hardwood cuttings I tried.

I saw they still have them at Home Depot for $25 in a 10 gal pot. It is a good deal for sure. I don't know how they can sell them so cheap.

meadowyck

meadowyck
Brooksville, FL
(Zone 9a)

May 19, 2009
4:55 PM

Post #6570285

Wish our Home Depot had them for that amount here... but no such luck.

When we first moved north the house we have now had what I thought at the time was a HLWS but I had never seen one that large so after further investigation found the tree to be a cork screw willow, had never seen one of those, the we had a late (april) snow and it was so heavy that it killed the crown of the tree, now this summer we are finally getting around to cutting it down... up here it is so expensive to have a tree taken out. 2,000.00 and the tree isn't that big.

Wish you luck with your soft wood cuttings. If any should do well and you want to lighten your load please contact me.

Janet
billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

May 19, 2009
6:08 PM

Post #6570529

I will post any progress here.

meadowyck

meadowyck
Brooksville, FL
(Zone 9a)

May 20, 2009
12:10 PM

Post #6573789

great wish you success.

Janet
echinaceamaniac
(Clint) Medina, TN
(Zone 7b)

May 20, 2009
12:36 PM

Post #6573896

Bill,

Air layering will work definitely. You just have to be very patient. I'd start one now and check it out next spring. By then, the roots will be large enough to support the new plant.
billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

May 20, 2009
4:23 PM

Post #6574777

I hope to do the air layering this weekend when I have some extra time. Waiting a whole year seems like a long time.
echinaceamaniac
(Clint) Medina, TN
(Zone 7b)

May 20, 2009
4:54 PM

Post #6574883

I started mine in August and removed the branch the following Spring. You just want to make sure the roots show through the plastic. I think the most important part is cutting and removing the strip of bark and applying the root hormone, along with not letting it dry out. I waited till spring because I was worried about planting it in the winter. I guess you could try different seasons, etc. It might be alright to plant in the fall. These are very winter hardy.
billgrubbs
Kaysville, UT
(Zone 5a)

May 20, 2009
8:58 PM

Post #6575805

I am anxious to try the season I am in.
Lynnie6868

(Zone 5b)

August 9, 2009
10:54 AM

Post #6925285

Interesting thread, folks. I accidentally snapped a branch off my harry lauder. I'm going to try that with the soil & baggie. I've never seen straight branches on mine, so I don't think it's grafted.
jlj072174
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 8a)

September 26, 2009
8:10 PM

Post #7107013

I saw these trees today at my local nursery (for $80+ a piece), and noticed a couple of these seeds/nuts on the ground beside them. There were also some on the trees. Any chance they'd grown from seeds (if in fact that is what these are)?

Thumbnail by jlj072174
Click the image for an enlarged view.

Lynnie6868

(Zone 5b)

September 26, 2009
10:34 PM

Post #7107370

my experiment was unsuccessful...good thing my shrub is thriving!
jlj you have nothing to lose...I don't recall ever seeing nuts on mine...it's still got big green leaves on it right now, no catkins yet. My mother was over the other day & asked me "what's wrong with that shrub?" lol
jlj072174
Raleigh, NC
(Zone 8a)

September 26, 2009
11:02 PM

Post #7107438

I'm willing to give it a shot. Any suggestions for how to sow them for best results? Do they need to be nicked/scarified, soaked, stratified, etc.?

meadowyck

meadowyck
Brooksville, FL
(Zone 9a)

September 27, 2009
2:02 AM

Post #7108045

I would place them in a wet paper towel then place it in a baggie until they germinate, then plant in seed starter mix.

It will be a long haul, but would be a fun project.

good luck

Janet

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